AMD or INTEL ?

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JK said:
That may be true in the US, but not in many other parts of the world.
AMD has 80% of its sales outside the US.

I think Intel has more of its sales outside the US than inside too. But the
major reason for that is a lot of chips are sold to Asian builders which
resell these products to other countries, including the US. Most laptops
are now built outside of North America.

Yousuf Khan
 
Yousuf said:
I think Intel has more of its sales outside the US than inside too.

The US probably has slightly above 30% of worldwide pc sales.
My point is that Intel's US market share is probably much larger than
its international market share.
 
Post Replies Here Please said:
Codemutant> AMD does come out with performance benchmarks higher than
Codemutant> intel. But i find many AMD systems not performing as
Codemutant> expected against the intel counterpart. and almost always
Codemutant> its the intel that wins in every aspect. Why is the bench
Codemutant> mark different from the true story?? and if its the case
Codemutant> of ill-configured systems.. then why is most of the amd
Codemutant> ill-configured??

Could give some url's or some real life examples with your own
experience? Like systems used etc. Your statement is too general too
really give a serious answer.

Thanks

Alan



Mine a AMD 2400+XP WITH 256MB DDR RAM, MSI MAINBOARD, VIA CHIPSET
KM400...
MY FRIEND'S INTEL PENTIUM 4 2.8GHZ WITH HT ENABLED, 256 MD DDR RAM,
INTEL EXTREME GRAPHICS 865 CHIPSET..,

agreed my friend's intel and mine dont stand a competition, the intel
clearly performs better.., but my other friends.. who have amd xp
2400+ and 2000+. with 256mb ddr ram.. fall short... they go frame by
frame !! when they play nfs6 hot pursuit 2.. luckily mine is better(i
can play) but not as good as my friend's intel counterpart!!

do all amd syetms have to use geforce to perform well?
 
Codemutant said:
Mine a AMD 2400+XP WITH 256MB DDR RAM, MSI MAINBOARD, VIA CHIPSET
KM400...
MY FRIEND'S INTEL PENTIUM 4 2.8GHZ WITH HT ENABLED, 256 MD DDR RAM,
INTEL EXTREME GRAPHICS 865 CHIPSET..,

agreed my friend's intel and mine dont stand a competition, the intel
clearly performs better..,

Why are you comparing a $55 AMD processor to a $160 Intel processor?
Compare the P4 2.8 ghz to an Athlon 64 3000+ which is very close in price.
Compare the performance of the $55 XP2400+ to the performance of a
$55 Celeron. The Athlon XP chips are great for business software, but
not that great for games. The Athlon 64 chips are great for games.
 
AMD does come out with performance benchmarks higher than intel. But i
find many AMD systems not performing as expected against the intel
counterpart. and almost always its the intel that wins in every
aspect.

This actually does not reflect my experience at all. In my
experience, the processor plays an important role in the benchmark
results, but has relatively little to do with the subjective "feel" of
the machine. Maybe that is what you are encountering? I often find
that a system with a fast processor but slow disk drives will
benchmark higher but it will seem slower when you actually use it.
Why is the bench mark different from the true story?? and if its the
case of ill-configured systems.. then why is most of the amd
ill-configured??

Here's a possible hypothesis for what you're seeing. AMD processors
are less expensive and therefore tend to be used on less expensive
systems. Intel chips are more expensive and therefore are used on
expensive systems with premium components.

Therefore Intel systems are more likely to come with better hard
disks, better video cards, etc. The processor itself has little to do
with the equation?

Or it could simply be a placebo effect, ie I paid more money for this
Intel processor so therefore it MUST be faster, right?


If you ask me, get yourself a nice, fast hard drive, an excellent
monitor and a good *reliable* motherboard first and foremost. If you
play lots of games then the video card should be your priority, and
even if you don't play games then you will want a video card with good
2D image quality. Also make sure that you've got sufficient memory in
the system, AT LEAST 512MB these days and 1GB is probably a worthwhile
purchase. The processor should be well down on your list of
considerations when buying a system, but I think you'll find that AMD
chips do still offer very compelling performance, particularly for
their price.
 
I think Intel has more of its sales outside the US than inside too. But the
major reason for that is a lot of chips are sold to Asian builders which
resell these products to other countries, including the US. Most laptops
are now built outside of North America.

Almost all laptops are built outside of North America and now most
low-end DESKTOPS are built overseas as well. I know that pretty much
every Compaq Presario and HP Pavilion system sold these days is being
assembled in China. Same probably goes for Dell Dimension systems as
well, though the higher-end business systems are still being produced
in the US for the most part.

I don't know quite how AMD/Intel count the sales of those processors.
The processors are being shipped overseas for assembly in systems, but
the complete units are being shipped back to North America (and
Europe, and everywhere else that they are sold) for final sale.
 
Not nearly enough. To get similar performance in Business Winstone 2004,
one can buy a $100 Athlon XP3000+ or a Pentium 4 3.2 ghz at around $260.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=6

Many business users are only interested in performance running business
applications.Let us know when Intel intends to drop the price of the P4 3.2
ghz to $100.

Most business users I know find any current CPU plenty fast enough,
but they are HUGELY concerned about reliability and having their
system "just work".

Besides, while the AthlonXP 3000+ might match a P4 3.2GHz in Business
Winstone 2004, the P4 comes out on top far more often than not. It's
definitely the faster of the two chips, though whether it's worth the
extra $160 is another matter altogether.
You are dreaming

For many applications it is a VERY good buy, particularly in the mid
price range. Until quite recently AMD has had rather big hole beyond
their AthlonXP 2700+ or 2800+. The prices tend to go up rather
rapidly when buying the 3000+ or 3200+ (assuming you are avoiding the
remarked chips sold by Pricewatch bottom-feeders), while those chips
just don't offer the performance of Intel's P4 2.8C or 3.0C processors
in the same price bracket.

The Athlon64 2800+ and 3000+ have come down in price somewhat to fill
in this hole, though motherboards are still a bit of a problem here.

In the end though, it comes down to what you're looking to do with the
system. If your main interest in the system is DivX encoding:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=7

Or 3D rendering:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=11

Than you would be better served by buying an Intel chip. Same goes
for certain games. On the other hand, AMD's chips perform better for
compiling code, some business applications and other games.

In short, buy what *YOU* need, not what someone else needs.
 
Tony said:
Most business users I know find any current CPU plenty fast enough,
but they are HUGELY concerned about reliability and having their
system "just work".

Do you think paying more means higher reliability?
Besides, while the AthlonXP 3000+ might match a P4 3.2GHz in Business
Winstone 2004, the P4 comes out on top far more often than not.

Not running business software. That is what business users run.
It's
definitely the faster of the two chips,

Not running business software.
though whether it's worth the
extra $160 is another matter altogether.


For many applications it is a VERY good buy, particularly in the mid
price range. Until quite recently AMD has had rather big hole beyond
their AthlonXP 2700+ or 2800+. The prices tend to go up rather
rapidly when buying the 3000+ or 3200+ (assuming you are avoiding the
remarked chips sold by Pricewatch bottom-feeders), while those chips
just don't offer the performance of Intel's P4 2.8C or 3.0C processors
in the same price bracket.

The $100 XP3000+ beats the $260 Pentium 4 3.2 ghz in Business Winstone
2004.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=6

Many people who buy a pc never run games or video editing. They run business
software.
The Athlon64 2800+ and 3000+ have come down in price somewhat to fill
in this hole, though motherboards are still a bit of a problem here.

A problem? Good motherboards for an Athlon XP can be bought for around $50.
In the end though, it comes down to what you're looking to do with the
system. If your main interest in the system is DivX encoding:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=7

What percentage of pc users do that? Of those, how many spend more
than a quarter of their pc usage doing that? For that small number of people,

http://www.anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2163&p=4

See above.
Than you would be better served by buying an Intel chip.

Very funny.
 
Tony said:
Most business users I know find any current CPU plenty fast enough,
but they are HUGELY concerned about reliability and having their
system "just work".

The business users might be happy with the performance of any
current CPU - and probably a lot of non-current CPUs - but
they are not the ones who sign off on the purchase orders.

The sysadmins and the support staff are more concerned
about reliability, but they don't sign the PO's either.

The ones who do sign the PO's are the PHB's who have degrees
in marketing or some other form of basket weaving - and
they base their decisions as much on the pretty benchmark
graph in HalfWit magazine or on a garbage site like Tom's
as they do on the recommendations of their IT staff.

So while desktop performance has ceased to be an issue for
most users and IT staff, it is still a tremendous marketing
tool because the manufacturers and vendors are well aware of
just what kind of idiots hold the real purchasing power and
what kind marketing crap those buyers are vulnerable to.
Just watch the commercials for business computers on TV:
IBM, HP, Intel, et al., are well aware that IT people won't
swallow that drivel, but they are equally well aware that the
PHB sitting at home watching sitcoms is very vulnerable to
those commercials.
 
Tony said:
I don't know quite how AMD/Intel count the sales of those processors.
The processors are being shipped overseas for assembly in systems, but
the complete units are being shipped back to North America (and
Europe, and everywhere else that they are sold) for final sale.

They count these as sales to the overseas. Afterall, they don't care where
the finally assembled PC is going to end up, they just care where they
themselves are shipping their own processors.

Yousuf Khan
 
Codemutant said:
Mine a AMD 2400+XP WITH 256MB DDR RAM, MSI MAINBOARD, VIA CHIPSET
KM400...
MY FRIEND'S INTEL PENTIUM 4 2.8GHZ WITH HT ENABLED, 256 MD DDR RAM,
INTEL EXTREME GRAPHICS 865 CHIPSET..,

agreed my friend's intel and mine dont stand a competition, the intel
clearly performs better.., but my other friends.. who have amd xp
2400+ and 2000+. with 256mb ddr ram.. fall short... they go frame by
frame !! when they play nfs6 hot pursuit 2.. luckily mine is better(i
can play) but not as good as my friend's intel counterpart!!

do all amd syetms have to use geforce to perform well?

I had a similar but opposite experience a couple of months back. I was out
of town visiting family. I'd been visiting a cousin with a Pentium 4 1.5Ghz,
and my brother-in-law with a 1.3Ghz Athlon XP. I was playing Age of Empires
on both machines, and to my astonishment, it just dragged on the P4, despite
the fact that the P4 had 200Mhz extra over the Athlon (of course in AMD
parlance, that 1.3Ghz would be rated a 1500+, so maybe the two computers
were equal). Similar amounts of RAM, 256MB, but the P4 also had DDR, whereas
the Athlon only had SDR. Despite these handicaps, the P4 still managed to
stink it up.

When I say it "dragged" on the P4, I mean literally, it couldn't keep up
with real-time game play on the P4, whereas the Athlon did it without a
whimper.

Yousuf Khan
 
Do you think paying more means higher reliability?

Intel sends a replacement processor to the doorstep within a week or
two. AMD... you'll be lucky to hear anything after a month or two.

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If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me :)
Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code
 
The said:
Intel sends a replacement processor to the doorstep within a week or
two. AMD... you'll be lucky to hear anything after a month or two.

Very funny. Why don't you post some links with your assertions?
How often do processors fail?
 
The said:
Intel sends a replacement processor to the doorstep within a week or
two. AMD... you'll be lucky to hear anything after a month or two.

Flip side: I haven't had an AMD processor die on me for
several years now except where it is obviously the fault
of the owner, user, or system builder, but I have had to
replace a lot if P4's and P4-Celerons. Those suckers run
a lot hotter than Athlons and Athlon64's, and lower
reliability seems to be the consequence. Doesn't matter
if the system was built by IBM, Dell, or other Tier One
manufacturer and never overclocked - those P4's just don't
seem to last.
 
The said:
Intel sends a replacement processor to the doorstep within a week or
two. AMD... you'll be lucky to hear anything after a month or two.

More relevant if you're talking about servers than PCs. But in a server
environment you have the OEMs stocking replacement parts as part of their
service contract with a customer, so you should actually get a replacement
part in a matter of a few hours.

Yousuf Khan
 
JK said:
Very funny. Why don't you post some links with your assertions?
How often do processors fail?

They fail quite a lot, if you're in a server environment.

Yousuf Khan
 
When I say it "dragged" on the P4, I mean literally, it couldn't keep up
with real-time game play on the P4, whereas the Athlon did it without a
whimper.

Yousuf Khan

Maybe the P4 was running too hot and throttling back the clock speed?

My brother has a P4 2.2GHz 400fsb DDR system, I was never impressed with
it, even his old Gateway AMD 1.2GHz with PC-133 beats it in some
benchmarks!

Ed
 
Ed said:
Maybe the P4 was running too hot and throttling back the clock speed?

My brother has a P4 2.2GHz 400fsb DDR system, I was never impressed
with it, even his old Gateway AMD 1.2GHz with PC-133 beats it in some
benchmarks!

No idea what was going on there. Didn't care either. I was just showing to
the original poster, Codemorpher (or something), that the impressions are
entirely subjective, and these sort of things can only be indications of
each case-by-case.

Yousuf Khan
 
Mine a AMD 2400+XP WITH 256MB DDR RAM, MSI MAINBOARD, VIA CHIPSET
KM400...
MY FRIEND'S INTEL PENTIUM 4 2.8GHZ WITH HT ENABLED, 256 MD DDR RAM,
INTEL EXTREME GRAPHICS 865 CHIPSET..,

Well, beyond the fact that you're comparing a $75 processor to a $175
processor, a LOT of what you're running into probably has to do with
the piece-of-shit integrated graphics used on your system while your
friends system has a half-way respectable integrated graphics.
agreed my friend's intel and mine dont stand a competition, the intel
clearly performs better.., but my other friends.. who have amd xp
2400+ and 2000+. with 256mb ddr ram.. fall short... they go frame by
frame !! when they play nfs6 hot pursuit 2.. luckily mine is better(i
can play) but not as good as my friend's intel counterpart!!

Again, the graphics card in your system is total crap.
do all amd syetms have to use geforce to perform well?

No, they just need to avoid complete buying absolute
bottom-of-the-barrel motherboards with complete crap integrated
graphics. If your friend spent as little money on his motherboard as
you did on your he would have ended up with a garbage setup using a
VIA PM400 chipset and games would be absolutely terrible on his PC
too. However he spent the extra $10 to get something that is twice as
fast. If you had spent the extra $10 to get, at the very least, an
nForce2 based motherboard with integrated graphics your system would
run laps around his.


Drop a video card in your system (pretty much ANY video card) and
you're games will go MUCH faster.
 
Do you think paying more means higher reliability?

?!?! do you think that paying less means higher reliability?!

The simple fact of the matter is that the most business users do NOT
buy PCs with raw performance as their #1 concern. They'll easily give
up 10% in performance for a more reliable machine any day, AND they'll
spend a little bit extra for it.
Not running business software. That is what business users run.

Even in business software, it just depends on what benchmark you look
at. From the very same review that you keep quoting, check out the
SYSMark Office Productivity benchmark:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=5


Here the P4 3.2GHz is a full 30% faster than the AthlonXP 3000+. In
your Business Winstone 2004 test the AthlonXP 3000+ is 1% faster than
the P4 3.2GHz. So which benchmark is more better and more applicable
to the applications that Joe business-user runs?! And why?

"There are lies, damned lies and benchmarks".
A problem? Good motherboards for an Athlon XP can be bought for around $50.

And that will do a hell of a lot of good for the Athlon64 2800+ and
3000+ processors I mentioned. What do you plan on doing, just
ignoring the extra ~300 pins on the processor and hoping that it'll
work?!
 
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