Adventures in DRM land: Sony

[Keith]

No, I advocate users having both user and admin access to
their PCs, but learning that user access is sufficient for
most everyday tasks and gives them meaningful protection.
Taking away root is a control-phreak issue.

I thought you were proposing the model used by the mainframe (and
mainframe wannabe ;-) OSs. Their users do *not* get root access,
but it's easier to manage a central installation.

I use both, and switching user under MS-WinXP isn't horrible.

How do I switch users without logging off?

Yes, but their use corresponds to Etch-a-Sketch
They can be persuaded to go locked-down.

Only if they get root access (to their Etch-a-Sketch). ;-)

Many are. But install notes for the common corp image
should be available.

That's fine, but what about all the other apps that may be job or
user specific?

Euww! Turning in used pencil stubs is proven to cost the
corp far more in lost productivity than the materials savings.
All our admins have corp-pay credit cards. There's some abuse
(& auditing) but the losses are less than the lost productivity
by going clamped-down.

Pencils? Actually, the supply all the #2 pencils and crappy ball
point pens I want. I don't know anyone outside kindergarten who
actually uses #2 pencils, but...

I think it's "We share your pain".

Could be. The note had "share" in the subject.

 

[Keith]

Wow, your part of the company is really cheap.

That's just the tip of the iceberg! March and May are even worse.
:-(

Stationary stores has common batteries in Rochester. They deliver them right to your office.
And many admins stock the more unusual ones, like an HP11 takes. Or
there is alway Buy on Demand or whatever it is called.

Your site has always been run better than the rest of the world.
Of course there mist be *some* incentive to get people there. ;-)

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

mainframe wannabe ;-) OSs. Their users do *not* get root access,

Because there are other people who will do maintenence.

but it's easier to manage a central installation.

Yep. One reason PCs are so difficult to manage.

How do I switch users without logging off?

Perhaps with MS-WinXP's "switch user" icon?
The sessions seem to be saved.

Only if they get root access (to their Etch-a-Sketch). ;-)

If they can flip it over, then they've got full access

That's fine, but what about all the other apps that may be
job or user specific?

Well, if IT helps people install it, they can also write
up the install notes. If someone in the dept does it, they
should write it up. Experienced admins always make notes.

Pencils? Actually, the supply all the #2 pencils and
crappy ball point pens I want. I don't know anyone outside
kindergarten who actually uses #2 pencils, but...

They're offering up school supplies

Could be. The note had "share" in the subject.

Found it at ms.uk ROTFL! They obviously don't have much of
a safety culture. I'd hate to think of the transmission of
Mad Cow or HIV through those "jab" needles.

-- Robert

 

[Del Cecchi]

That's just the tip of the iceberg! March and May are even worse.
:-(




Your site has always been run better than the rest of the world.
Of course there mist be *some* incentive to get people there. ;-)

All the corn and soybeans you can eat, cheap.

 

[Keith]

Because there are other people who will do maintenence.


Yep. One reason PCs are so difficult to manage.

Unmanageable, IMO. Windows simply makes it even harder (and
ironically, more important).

Perhaps with MS-WinXP's "switch user" icon?
The sessions seem to be saved.

I admit to being an XP newb (say, five days), but there aint such
an icon. Help says to do a Start->logoff->switch user. Nope. No
"switch user" option there either (and the first version of this
reply was lost).

If they can flip it over, then they've got full access
;-)


Well, if IT helps people install it, they can also write
up the install notes. If someone in the dept does it, they
should write it up. Experienced admins always make notes.

Users? I guess I should, since with Windows I *know* I'll have to
do it again.

They're offering up school supplies

You aren't wrong. At one time there was such a problem. The
"MRO" supplies were depleted every August so they planned on it and
no supplies were available from June through October.

In another cost cutting move they reduced the inventory of pencils
from three to one. There were three hardness pencils stocked (#2,
'F', and 4H, IIRC). To save money they got rid of all but one
type. As any good PHB would do, they took a vote. More #2 pencils
were used than the others, so that's what they kept.

Found it at ms.uk ROTFL! They obviously don't have much of
a safety culture. I'd hate to think of the transmission of
Mad Cow or HIV through those "jab" needles.

At least they have a sense of humor. I found it too, but
apparently I've done somethign to mess up the colors on this
machine (it's set to 32bit on both monitors).

 

[Keith]

All the corn and soybeans you can eat, cheap.

I was born and raised in the middle of Illinois. Corn and soybeans
as far as the eye could see weren't enought to keep me there. ;-)
As cold as IL was, MN is far worse!

 

[Del Cecchi]

I was born and raised in the middle of Illinois. Corn and soybeans
as far as the eye could see weren't enought to keep me there. ;-)
As cold as IL was, MN is far worse!

You live in Vermont. approximately the same climate as Rochester only
with some hills and a lake. And in the middle of Illinois are no jobs
except for some at CAT and those involving the corn and soybeans.

The IBM saying about Rochester is that they can't get folks to come
here. Then they can't get them to leave. Except for those whose
cultural needs aren't met here.

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

Unmanageable, IMO.

I agree, at least for positive, real number values of "management".
However, it is too often in the imaginary or negative domains

Windows simply makes it even harder (and ironically, more important).

They go together. All mS-Win* systems I've ever seen require
horrendous amounts of maintence to keep them stable.

I admit to being an XP newb (say, five days), but there aint
such an icon. Help says to do a Start->logoff->switch user.
Nope. No "switch user" option there either

Perhaps it doesn't appear unless you have multiple user accounts?

Users? I guess I should, since with Windows I *know*
I'll have to do it again.

Precisely. With PCs, users are their own admins and need to
learn those skills and mindset.

stocked (#2, 'F', and 4H, IIRC). To save money they got
rid of all but one type. As any good PHB would do, they
took a vote. More #2 pencils were used than the others,
so that's what they kept.

Wunnerful! Did they also take a vote on your latest
PCB routing? Can't you make that route _longer_ so
we use less chemicals etching away less interconnect?

At least they have a sense of humor. I found it too,
but apparently I've done somethign to mess up the colors
on this machine (it's set to 32bit on both monitors).

I thought 32bpp was pretty standard these days. You might
want to go into the Dispaly Adapter settings and see if
you've tweaked the color rendition.

-- Robert

 

[George Macdonald]

No, I advocate users having both user and admin access to
their PCs, but learning that user access is sufficient for
most everyday tasks and gives them meaningful protection.
Taking away root is a control-phreak issue.

That's exactly how we started - Power User for normal use, which allows
*some* things over User. It didn't last long - they got pissed with it and
took administrators privilege... all those "auto-updates" on various
utility software *were* a PITA.

I use both, and switching user under MS-WinXP isn't horrible.

Having to logoff/Ctrl-Alt-Del/logon and repeat to get back and then repeat
all over again for every little glitch after an install gets wearisome.
Then there's runing scandisk/defrag etc. and RunAs is err, feeble.

 

[hackbox.info]

to upgrade MySQL on my Linux media player box to the
latest version (complete with the latest bug fixes/security patches).
The new version is installed but my database is mostly hosed.

backups backups

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

That's exactly how we started - Power User for normal use,
which allows *some* things over User. It didn't last long -
they got pissed with it and took administrators privilege... all

Sounds like a very impatient bunch. Very accident-prone.

those "auto-updates" on various utility software *were* a PITA.

Who runs with "Auto-Updates" turned on? It's a horrible virus,
just waiting to strike at the worst possible moment.

Having to logoff/Ctrl-Alt-Del/logon and repeat to get back
and then repeat all over again for every little glitch
after an install gets wearisome. Then there's runing

So complain about defective installs. This one ain't the
OS' fault.

scandisk/defrag etc. and RunAs is err, feeble.

These, like non-Auto-Updating, are admin tasks run during
an admin session.

-- Robert

 

[Tony Hill]

How do I switch users without logging off?

If you're not connected to the network, you either hit: Start -> Log
Off <user> -> Switch User, or alternatively the <Windows key>-L.
However this does not work when you're connected to a Windows domain.
Hopefully that's a weakness that will be addressed in the next
iteration of Windows, though I'm not holding my breath.

For me it does work well enough, though it's not quite as quick or
smooth as Linux in this regard. There is also the "Run As" option in
Windows (right-click on the application you wish to run). Again, not
quite as smooth as Linux, but it works well enough to not bother me
much.

A much bigger problem is that a LOT of Windows applications are
written by people stuck in Win9x era. They just don't work right in a
multiuser environment at all. A perfect example of this is Forte
Agent which I'm using to write this very message. It stores ALL of
it's data files in the "Program Files" directory (anyone else see an
obvious problem here?!?!) and really just doesn't recognize multiple
users at all. The same mostly holds true even for the brand spanking
new version 3.1 of Agent, it's still written as if it were a Win9x
application. Most games are even worse in this regard.

 

[Tony Hill]

backups backups

Got one (both of the data and the old version of the database).
However getting the old data into the new database is what is causing
problems. As I said, another couple of hours working on it will
probably get the issue solved, but it's not exactly what I want to
spend my Friday evenings doing.

 

[Nate Edel]

Dunno, but I'd likely use a "user" ID if it were mandated. I just
don't like the constant loging out/in in windows. At least SU
works in *ix.

There are quite a number of things under Windows where it will let you run
as an administrator; it's just not terribly well documented or understood.

 

[Nate Edel]

I admit to being an XP newb (say, five days), but there aint such
an icon. Help says to do a Start->logoff->switch user. Nope. No
"switch user" option there either (and the first version of this
reply was lost).

It's not enabled if you have the real login screen (required for a domain
login) rather than the welcome screen with the user icons.

XP Pro does have a "Run As" option if you right-click an executable file or
a shortcut to one (such as the start menu.)

 

[Keith]

Perhaps it doesn't appear unless you have multiple user accounts?

Tried adding users (I already had two admins, neither of which I
can convert to user).

Wunnerful! Did they also take a vote on your latest
PCB routing? Can't you make that route _longer_ so
we use less chemicals etching away less interconnect?

No, but perhaps only because my PHB chain doesn't care about
chemicals. ;-)

I thought 32bpp was pretty standard these days. You might
want to go into the Dispaly Adapter settings and see if
you've tweaked the color rendition.

After thinking about the timing, I installed the Omega display
drivers[*] inbetween viewing the movie. They must not like the M$
video. Everything else seems fine though, including DVD video in
MediaPlayer. Whatever...

[*] The standard ATI drivers won't drive the external monitor above
60Hz at 1400x1050. 60Hz is just too painfull.

 

[Keith]

It's not enabled if you have the real login screen (required for a domain
login) rather than the welcome screen with the user icons.

That makes sense, I guess. I don't have a "welcome" screen.

XP Pro does have a "Run As" option if you right-click an executable file or
a shortcut to one (such as the start menu.)

Ah, but can I "run as" when installing software? Why doesn't IE
have a "run as"? Several apps don't seem to have the feechur.
Thanks.

 

[Keith]

You live in Vermont. approximately the same climate as Rochester only
with some hills and a lake.

The winters may be as long (and far more gray), but it's nowhere
near as cold here as Rochester. We may have a stretch of really
cold stuff, but it's actually rather nice when it's -20F. The sun
is always out and it's calm when it's below zero. There is no -
30F/30MPH here, like there is all too often on the plains. When I
moved East (P'ok) I didn't even own a winter coat for five years.
It was that much warmer than even Illinois.

And in the middle of Illinois are no jobs except for some at
CAT and those involving the corn and soybeans.

There is a bit of high-tech in the Cham-bana area. My father had a
rather nice job as an EE Prof. ;-) But you're right there isn't a
a *lot* in the middle. There is substantial industry in the Chicago
burbs though. BTW, there isn't a lot in P'ok (now there's an
understatement) or BTV, either.

The IBM saying about Rochester is that they can't get folks to come
here. Then they can't get them to leave. Except for those whose
cultural needs aren't met here.

I've heard that. It's quite like that here in BTV too, but more
and more are leaving when they retire. I certainly will (and
soon). Weather is just a small part of it.

 

[George Macdonald]

There are quite a number of things under Windows where it will let you run
as an administrator; it's just not terribly well documented or understood.

If you're talking about RunAs, it is probably not well documented because
it is unreliable and usually fails in the situations you need it most. If
you mean fast user switching, it is documented that it is "not available"
when from a domain logon - IOW basically a "Home" feature.

 

[George Macdonald]

If you're not connected to the network, you either hit: Start -> Log
Off <user> -> Switch User, or alternatively the <Windows key>-L.
However this does not work when you're connected to a Windows domain.
Hopefully that's a weakness that will be addressed in the next
iteration of Windows, though I'm not holding my breath.

For me it does work well enough, though it's not quite as quick or
smooth as Linux in this regard. There is also the "Run As" option in
Windows (right-click on the application you wish to run). Again, not
quite as smooth as Linux, but it works well enough to not bother me
much.

Run As does not work properly at all - try using a command which needs
switches or arguments. In fact one case where it would be most useful --
msconfig to get that user's settings -- I can't get to work. Dunno if it's
related to domain login or registry permissions?