abandonware?

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On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:24:26 +0100, "Bjorn Abelli"

....
And yes, on some other sites they define it otherwise, but still the
bottom-line is that it has to been "released" to be considered freeware, if
it wasn't freeware already before it was abandoned. .....

And since freeware is the pre-requisite for *any* software discussed in this
forum...

It wouldn't take much research to disprove the latter statement.

Since there's a lot of debate about the ethics of software use and
distribution here, "abandonware" is certainly a fitting topic of
discussion, since it involves unethical behaviour by the copyright
holders.

In my opinion, the critical characteristic of abandonware is not that
it's no longer developed, or that it's no longer supported by the
copyright holder, but that one can no longer purchase a license for
use.

While I can imagine situations when suppressing a piece of software
would be justifiable, most of the instances I've encountered don't
fall into this category. What maddens me especially is when software
companies buy up unique and useful programs and simply kill them.

This happened with a number of PC dictionary and translation programs.

Language Assistant got purchased by Globalink, and Globalink was then
taken over by L&H, which then took all the PC-based programs it had
bought off the market before exiting the field itself altogether.

Another instance is Transparent Language, which killed its own
innovative foreign language training system, using specially prepared
literary texts. They now market only conventional and rather dull
language learning modules, and appear to have taken all of the
original material off the market.

In my view, this is reprehensible, and morally justifies distributing
such material in spite of the EULA. I find it strange that some
software authors can't understand this. I image they would understand
it if someone found a global cure for cancer, and then used his patent
to deny everyone except his friends and family the benefit of it.



Achim



axethetax
 
Achim Nolcken Lohse said:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:24:26 +0100, "Bjorn Abelli"

...

It wouldn't take much research to disprove the latter statement.

Since there's a lot of debate about the ethics of software use and
distribution here, "abandonware" is certainly a fitting topic of
discussion, since it involves unethical behaviour by the copyright
holders.

In my opinion, the critical characteristic of abandonware is not that
it's no longer developed, or that it's no longer supported by the
copyright holder, but that one can no longer purchase a license for
use.

While I can imagine situations when suppressing a piece of software
would be justifiable, most of the instances I've encountered don't
fall into this category. What maddens me especially is when software
companies buy up unique and useful programs and simply kill them.

This happened with a number of PC dictionary and translation programs.

Language Assistant got purchased by Globalink, and Globalink was then
taken over by L&H, which then took all the PC-based programs it had
bought off the market before exiting the field itself altogether.

Another instance is Transparent Language, which killed its own
innovative foreign language training system, using specially prepared
literary texts. They now market only conventional and rather dull
language learning modules, and appear to have taken all of the
original material off the market.

In my view, this is reprehensible, and morally justifies distributing
such material in spite of the EULA. I find it strange that some
software authors can't understand this. I image they would understand
it if someone found a global cure for cancer, and then used his patent
to deny everyone except his friends and family the benefit of it.



Achim



axethetax

Babya System 7.x-10.x is abadinware, as they are no longer developed, but
are leegal, as there is no cost to download or to use.
 
Achim Nolcken Lohse said:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:24:26 +0100, "Bjorn Abelli"

...

It wouldn't take much research to disprove the latter statement.

Since there's a lot of debate about the ethics of software use and
distribution here, "abandonware" is certainly a fitting topic of
discussion, since it involves unethical behaviour by the copyright
holders.

In my opinion, the critical characteristic of abandonware is not that
it's no longer developed, or that it's no longer supported by the
copyright holder, but that one can no longer purchase a license for
use.

While I can imagine situations when suppressing a piece of software
would be justifiable, most of the instances I've encountered don't
fall into this category. What maddens me especially is when software
companies buy up unique and useful programs and simply kill them.

This happened with a number of PC dictionary and translation programs.

Language Assistant got purchased by Globalink, and Globalink was then
taken over by L&H, which then took all the PC-based programs it had
bought off the market before exiting the field itself altogether.

Another instance is Transparent Language, which killed its own
innovative foreign language training system, using specially prepared
literary texts. They now market only conventional and rather dull
language learning modules, and appear to have taken all of the
original material off the market.

In my view, this is reprehensible, and morally justifies distributing
such material in spite of the EULA. I find it strange that some
software authors can't understand this. I image they would understand
it if someone found a global cure for cancer, and then used his patent
to deny everyone except his friends and family the benefit of it.



Achim



axethetax

Another example is Cool-Edit -purchased by Adobe, discontinued consumer
version, only sells a pro version.
 
:

It wouldn't take much research to disprove
the latter statement.

The name of the group is alt.comp.freeware, so I definitely would say that
"freeware" is a pre-requisite for discussions in this group.

[snip]
What maddens me especially is when software companies
buy up unique and useful programs and simply kill them.
[snip]

In my view, this is reprehensible, and morally justifies
distributing such material in spite of the EULA.

[snip]

What you criticize is a natural part of the capitalist market economy.
There's a similarity to the legislation surrounding "patents" of all kinds,
where a patent holder can hinder the development of his patented product,
just to gain market advantages for *other* products.

But still the legislation in most countries support those aspects of the
market economy, and as such there's nothing much we can do about it, unless
the legislators are willing to put further restrictions on the market
economy.

The bottomline is still what I stated before, it can't be considered
freeware just on the basis that it has been abandoned.

Even if the possibility to purchase a licence ceases to exist, that in
itself doesn't make it legal to distribute copies of the software.

If you want to change this, then you have some work cut out for you to
influence the legislators, and by all means go ahead and do that. I wish you
all luck in that project... ;-)

// Bjorn A
 
In my view, this is reprehensible, and morally justifies distributing
such material in spite of the EULA.

In spite of the copyright that still applies, you mean?
I find it strange that some
software authors can't understand this. I image they would understand
it if someone found a global cure for cancer, and then used his patent
to deny everyone except his friends and family the benefit of it.

Strawman. This is about copyright and /not/ patents on issues that
affect the whole world.
 
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:23:40 +0100, "Bjorn Abelli"

....
What maddens me especially is when software companies
buy up unique and useful programs and simply kill them.
[snip]

In my view, this is reprehensible, and morally justifies
distributing such material in spite of the EULA.
....
The bottomline is still what I stated before, it can't be considered
freeware just on the basis that it has been abandoned.

I wasn't suggesting that it's freeware.
Even if the possibility to purchase a licence ceases to exist, that in
itself doesn't make it legal to distribute copies of the software.

Nor did I say or suggest that distributing abandonware is legal,
merely that it's not necessarily unethical.
If you want to change this, then you have some work cut out for you to
influence the legislators, and by all means go ahead and do that. I wish you
all luck in that project... ;-)

It's changing already, as more and more people become aware of the
loss to society caused by the deliberate suppression of valuable
intellectual material.



Achim



axethetax
 
Achim Nolcken Lohse said:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:23:40 +0100, "Bjorn Abelli"

...
What maddens me especially is when software companies
buy up unique and useful programs and simply kill them.
[snip]

In my view, this is reprehensible, and morally justifies
distributing such material in spite of the EULA.
...
The bottomline is still what I stated before, it can't be considered
freeware just on the basis that it has been abandoned.

I wasn't suggesting that it's freeware.
Even if the possibility to purchase a licence ceases to exist, that in
itself doesn't make it legal to distribute copies of the software.

Nor did I say or suggest that distributing abandonware is legal,
merely that it's not necessarily unethical.
If you want to change this, then you have some work cut out for you to
influence the legislators, and by all means go ahead and do that. I wish you
all luck in that project... ;-)

It's changing already, as more and more people become aware of the
loss to society caused by the deliberate suppression of valuable
intellectual material.



Achim

But... but.... in our economic system created via the collusion of BIG
business and BIG government so that profit is of all-encompassing importance
are we to not obey our political and corporate masters and toe the "party
line."

I did not go overseas in uniform back in the mid-70s to protect American
business interests just to see a bunch of "commies" disobey their
"betters."!!!!!!

/note scarcasm, please
 
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