A very serious suggestion.

  • Thread starter Thread starter John Corliss
  • Start date Start date
J

John Corliss

Before the anybody tries to insist that I'm trying to tell people what
to do, I qualify this message with the following:

*This is just an idea.

If you like it:

use it.

If you don't:

don't use it.*

If you're asking for a program to meet a software need and have a
specific belief regarding what is and isn't freeware, then include
that into your signature file. For instance, mine might read something
like:
_________________________________
No adware, cdware, commercial software, crippleware, demoware,
nagware, shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses
or warez please.
_________________________________

or you could go the "positive" route (although this would probably
result in people recommending more types of software that you don't
want) with:
_________________________________
Genuine freeware, non time limited betaware, careware, donationware,
nonag liteware, orphanware, postcardware and registerware only please.
_________________________________

This "preference inclusion" could also be kept in a saved text file
that you could cut and paste into your message, or as a *permanent*
part of your signature file. If you don't use it at all though, you
would have nobody to blame but yourself when people recommend types of
software that you don't want.

Of course this will require people to respect other's preferences, but
it should cut down on all the dissension in the group.


Message to Andy Mabbett:

I, and I'm sure many others, couldn't care any less about the effect
this has on signature files being "broken."


To everybody else, any opinions?
 
John Corliss <[email protected]#> wrote:
If you're asking for a program to meet a software need and have a
specific belief regarding what is and isn't freeware, then include
that into your signature file. For instance, mine might read something
like:
Of course this will require people to respect other's preferences, but
it should cut down on all the dissension in the group.
To everybody else, any opinions?

That's a good idea John that will certainly work for the regulars.

More time than not, it is the regulars who respond to requests though,
rather than to ask for a program or solution.

I certainly agree that we should respect each other's preferences. And
I think the preferences are really overblown. It's really not that big
of a deal.

When I see "betaware" I automatically assume that it is a freeware
beta. A shareware beta is OT. A commercial beta is OT.

When I see "abandon\orphanware" I automatically assume we're talking
about a freeware program. A shareware orphan is OT. A commercial
orphan is OT. The copyright will be in effect long after most of us
are gone.

It's tiny differences like this that tend to divide us. I think I'm
ontrack with the definitions derived from the group now and I accept
them and will try to remember that I'm thinking to myself something
different in future discussions.
 
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 04:53:29 -0800, RE: A very serious suggestion.

..
..
This "preference inclusion" could also be kept in a saved text file
that you could cut and paste into your message, or as a *permanent*
part of your signature file. If you don't use it at all though, you
would have nobody to blame but yourself when people recommend types of
software that you don't want.

Of course this will require people to respect other's preferences, but
it should cut down on all the dissension in the group. ..
..
To everybody else, any opinions?

I think this is an excellent suggestion!
 
In message <[email protected]>, John Corliss

[snip cluelessness]
Message to Andy Mabbett:

I, and I'm sure many others, couldn't care any less about the effect
this has on signature files being "broken."

Noted. That says much about you and your lack of concern for others.
 
That's a good idea John that will certainly work for the regulars.
More time than not, it is the regulars who respond to requests though,
rather than to ask for a program or solution.

Right. As for the askers, most won't know the convention. And the
otherware promoters wouldn't respect those sigged preferences, anyway,
any more than they respect the conventions of the group -- so even a
regular's preference-sigged query would be ignored.
 
Blinky said:
Right. As for the askers, most won't know the convention. And the
otherware promoters wouldn't respect those sigged preferences, anyway,
any more than they respect the conventions of the group -- so even a
regular's preference-sigged query would be ignored.

I agree, Blinky and REMbranded. However, since the F.A.Q.s don't seem
to have been doing much good lately anyway, it's a best case solution.
 
It's tiny differences like this that tend to divide us. I think I'm
ontrack with the definitions derived from the group now and I accept
them and will try to remember that I'm thinking to myself something
different in future discussions.

Agreed. Close is good in horse shoes, hand grenades, and Freeware. Since
this NG is not that busy anyway, splitting hairs won't help. The regulars
stay, the transients are gone before they learn what technically constitutes
Freeware. I say ignore gray areas, and stay with the spirit of the Freeware
scene, not the cold hard definition. If we run off all the drifters, we have
what? A dozen regular posters? People were once nice and patient enough to
teach us the ropes. We should pass that down to the new guys.

Bob
 
Agreed. Close is good in horse shoes, hand grenades, and Freeware.
Since this NG is not that busy anyway, splitting hairs won't help. The
regulars stay, the transients are gone before they learn what
technically constitutes Freeware. I say ignore gray areas, and stay
with the spirit of the Freeware scene, not the cold hard definition.
If we run off all the drifters, we have what? A dozen regular posters?
People were once nice and patient enough to teach us the ropes. We
should pass that down to the new guys.

Bob

Well put. Thank you!

--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
El Gee

Did you hear the one about the dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac?
He would stay up late every night and wonder if there was a dog.
Remove yourhat to reply ... but it
may take a while. Best to go to www (dot) mistergeek (dot) com and
reply from there.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
Agreed. Close is good in horse shoes, hand grenades, and Freeware. Since
this NG is not that busy anyway, splitting hairs won't help. The regulars
stay, the transients are gone before they learn what technically constitutes
Freeware. I say ignore gray areas, and stay with the spirit of the Freeware
scene, not the cold hard definition. If we run off all the drifters, we have
what? A dozen regular posters? People were once nice and patient enough to
teach us the ropes. We should pass that down to the new guys.

What kind of mix of software do you have on your freeware site?
 
Since
this NG is not that busy anyway,

One of the busiest I have seen - would be interested if anyone could
rate this - Susan had a site for stats posted before - but where would
that put acf on the scale of busy groups - anyone ?
 
Alastair said:
One of the busiest I have seen - would be interested if anyone could
rate this - Susan had a site for stats posted before - but where would
that put acf on the scale of busy groups - anyone ?

dunno, but I just took a look at rec.photo.digital (one of *many* photo
newsgroup) and they were more than twice as busy as ACF in August
(latest available month).

alt.comp.freeware - Messages 6890

http://netscan.research.microsoft.c...rchfor=alt.comp.freeware&searchdate=8/31/2003

rec.photo.digital - Messages 17413

http://netscan.research.microsoft.c...rchfor=rec.photo.digital&searchdate=8/31/2003

You're on your own from here . . . ;)

Susan
--
Pricelessware: http:www.pricelessware.org
PL2003: http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/about2003PL.htm
PL2004 Review: http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/2004nominationsPL.php
alt.comp.freeware FAQ (short) - maintained by John F.
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
 
One of the busiest I have seen - would be interested if anyone
could rate this - Susan had a site for stats posted before - but
where would that put acf on the scale of busy groups - anyone ?

In Q3 2003, it was the busiest in alt.comp.*

<http://netscan.research.microsoft.c...pan=q&searchfor=alt.comp&searchdate=8/31/2003>

or <http://tinyurl.com/t7jy>



It was the approximately the 432nd-busiest of approximately
24575 in alt.*, but that includes binaries groups, and I do not know
how to exclude them from a netscan search.

<http://netscan.research.microsoft.c...chfor=alt&savesearch=yes&searchdate=8/31/2003>

or <http://tinyurl.com/t7ub>

The link above is slow to load, as it returns 2500 groups.
 
just a thought sub groups..


alt.comp.freeware.cdware
alt.comp.freeware.betaware
alt.comp.freeware.nagware
alt.comp.freeware.liteware
alt.comp.freeware.demoware

or alt.comp.freeware.pure
etc...

Regards
stan,
 
John Corliss wrote in said:
»Q«,
I like the way you did that. Excellent convention. Lets a person
know where a tinyurl is going. I'm going to try to remember to do that
myself.

I agree - it is good practice to supply both long and short URL. For
the reason you state, but also since you never know how long the
short-link-server used will be available.

Related: Some such "short link" services, like
<http://www.makeashorterlink.com> will send you to their page first -
where you can see the long (real) URL before it transfers there. I
prefer this over direct transfer, since you never know where a short
link may take you.

From: <http://www.makeashorterlink.com/options.php>
<quote>
Normally, when you use one of our shorter links, you will be shown a
transition page. This page shows you the URL that the link points to,
and gives you a chance to change your mind.
If you don't want to see the transition page, you can set your
preference here to send you straight to the link destination. You
must have cookies enabled in your browser for this to work.
</quote>

Btw: See comparison at <http://notlong.com/links/>

All the best,
Bjorn Simonsen
 
just a thought sub groups..


or alt.comp.freeware.pure

alt.comp.freeware.moderated is the best solution. Unfortunately this
is a pretty large job and so far no one has expressed interest in the
moderating of it.

I'm not sure exactly how to start a new group or how the process of
moderating goes. If there is a charge I offer $30 US and I will
volunteer as one moderator. Several are needed it appears, so as to
spread the load out. Does anyone else have any interest in serving
shifts?

If it ever happens (and I hope it does) a charter for the purest
freeware should be drawn up and reflect the content allowed to be
posted. Freeware sites can be asked to submit posts for what they
consider pure freeware and of course the rest of us also. The FAQs can
apply without any debate about them.
 
What kind of mix of software do you have on your freeware site?

Me?

Only the best and coolest. :-)

Most is "pure" according to John's definition. I don't think any is adware,
although a couple may need de-lousing by SpyBot.

Bob
 
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