35mm Slides: What DPI?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Wayne
  • Start date Start date
I'm still just a real amateur at this. I was trying to figure out what
a reasonable resolution is. e.g. 300 or a very much higher number like
in the thousands. I just want to scan my slides at a resolution that
is right because of all the time it will take. All the ads say you
need to scan at 4000 which I can't even do. But I'm starting to realize
that a 300 ppi number on my 2480 eson scanner is actually more like
1200 (depending on the target size). It does not use numbers like 12X.
in the home mode. If I'm all wrong I'd like to hear about it. thank-you

Erewhon & Wayne describe one way to scan, and Kennedy describes
another. Both ways accomplish the same goal, but I prefer Erewhon's &
Wayne's method, simply because you specify the output up front. Yes, as
Kennedy suggests, your intended uses may go awry, but given predominant
printing technologies today, it'll be some time before any changes in
printing technologies will disrupt your intended uses. And, that's key.
Your intended uses are what Erewhon & Wayne are talking about.

I've been going thru the same thing as you, & I've decided, with Epson
Scan, to set Destination Resolution to 300 dpi and set Target Size (I'm
talking about Professional Mode, where you should be, BTW.) to the
dimensions of the final print. The software does all the scaling. For
example, for family stuff, I Preview, Zoom, crop, and adjust for tone &
color. Then, I set either the width or the height, whichever, so that
it will print on 4 x 6" paper. The image may not be exactly 4 x 6". No
matter, but at least one dimension will be nearly 4" or 6". I do not
find the preset dimensions convenient. You might.

Some images I want for 8 x 10" & even 16 x 20". (I use an Epson
Perfection 4870 Photo.) I treat them the same. These dimensions 4x6,
8x10, 16x20, have been around for nearly 100 years. The printing
industry has been standardized on these dimensions at least as long, so
I don't know where Kennedy comes from regarding uncertainties as to
future uses. The point is your image does not have to exactly fit on
one of those sizes. Just crop to your satisfaction, decide which of
those dimensions you want to base the image on, & enter one of your
image's dimensions to come as close to one side of the standard
dimension as you can, without exceeding the other dimension. It may not
be a perfect fit, but you're the artist, right?

Kennedy's point about honoring the capabilities of your scanner,
however, is well taken. In Preview at the bottom of the screen, it
shows the pixel dimensions of your image. Your scanner scans vertically
at 2400 dpi. You check the pixel width at the bottom of the screen to
make sure it does not exceed 2400 dpi. If it does, you need to change
your Target dimensions.
 
Kennedy's point about honoring the capabilities of your scanner,
however, is well taken. In Preview at the bottom of the screen, it
shows the pixel dimensions of your image. Your scanner scans vertically
at 2400 dpi. You check the pixel width at the bottom of the screen to
make sure it does not exceed 2400 dpi. If it does, you need to change
your Target dimensions.
If you are looking for the best results from your scanner and printer
then you simply cannot just leave it to the scanner software - even if
you do check that your combination of image size and output ppi does not
exceed the scanner's capability.

The scanner produces one image pixel for every CCD element at its
optical resolution only. At almost every other scan resolution, the
result is interpolated - and usually interpolated by the crudest of
algorithms, nearest neighbour in most cases and bilinear interpolation
in a few. In fact, it is actually worse than that because, in the
interest of scan speed, the interpolation is usually applied to the next
highest integer division of the scanner resolution, so an amount of
information equal to the square of that integer is not even considered
in the interpolation!

If you scan at the optical resolution of the scanner and then scale the
image at printing time, you can choose the interpolation that you use to
get the size and resolution you want for your final image. There is a
vast array of interpolation algorithms that are vastly superior to
nearest neighbour or linear interpolation, and several of these are
built into standard image editing and printing software. They are not
generally offered in scanner software because of the impact on scan time
- the scanner manufacturer, on the advice of millions of users, wants to
offer the maximum scan speed possible.

With original source material as small as a 35mm frame and the resulting
high magnifications in the final output, such issues are important.

It is also completely wrong to suggest that the printing technology
available today is unlikely to change sufficiently to impact the
intended use. Quite simply, printing technology doesn't have to change
at all - all you need to do is buy another manufacturer's printer and
the optimum output resolution is likely to change!

For example, current HP printers are optimised for output resolutions
which are an integer division of 600ppi, the native raster resolution of
the printer driver, hence the typical advice to target an output
resolution of 300ppi. 200, 150 and 120ppi are the next lowest
resolutions of choice for HP technology. However, 300ppi is actually
one of the worst resolutions to select for an Epson printer.

Epson desktop printer drivers have a native resolution of 720ppi, so the
optimum resolution for the output is an integer division of 720ppi.
360ppi is the Epson equivalent of the general "300ppi" rule, whilst 240,
180 and 144ppi are just the next lowest resolutions of choice. Most
Epson large format, generally professional, printers have a native
driver resolution of 360ppi although some of the latest use 720ppi
drivers just like the desktops.

Anything other than these integer divisions of the native resolutions
requires interpolation in the printer driver (in addition to what you
might have used in the scanner driver!) and, guess what, they are even
more limited than the scanner drivers in that they *all* use nearest
neighbour interpolation! (Some Epson drives do have an option to enable
linear interpolation, but unless you know what is going on, it is so
poorly labelled that few know what it is and it is frequently misused).
300ppi images fed to an Epson printer guarantees that the output is
interpolated, with the results most obvious on sharp edges which are
near vertical or horizontal. Admittedly, text and synthetic graphics
show the effect more than scanned images, but it is still there, can
still be seen and all of these interpolation steps add up to a poorer
result.

To avoid any confusion, note that the optimum printer ppi figures are
virtually independent of the quoted ink dpi for the printer, which is
generally an integer *multiple* of the driver's native raster resolution
and determined by the design and manufacturing technology used.

Your optimum image requirements can change simply by changing between
printers that are freely available on the market today, let alone
guessing about what might be available in the future!

Now, so far on this thread, the OP has been advised to target a specific
output resolution - which forces interpolation at scan time and may
force yet another interpolation at print time, depending on the printer
being used. And if he wants to perform any crops on those scanned
images before printing them at the same size, yet another interpolation
is required. Just how many stages of the poorest type of interpolation
do you think are needed before the output looks like mush? At most, one
interpolation step is all that is necessary, and the effect of that can
be minimised by using the best interpolation algorithm available in your
armoury. So why are you recommending a workflow that could result in
three, two of which are the worst possible type?

Based on the statement that the OP has insufficient scanner resolution
to achieve even 300ppi at the output size he wants, do you know whether
he should be targeting 200ppi or 240ppi as his next best choice. And
can you guarantee that this will still be his optimum output resolution
next week, month or year?

It is a poor shortcut to impose printing criteria on a scanner or
scanner criteria on a printer. Separate the two functions, choose the
optimum for each and use the best interpolation technology available to
you at any time to bridge the gap between them.

Or, as someone allegedly more savvy than anyone on Usenet put it:
"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is
God's".
 
It is a poor shortcut to impose printing criteria on a scanner or
scanner criteria on a printer. Separate the two functions, choose the
optimum for each and use the best interpolation technology available to
you at any time to bridge the gap between them.

To circumvent all the trouble, scan at the highest possible (optical!)
resolution and archive the scan. When you want a print, use QImage,
which deals brilliantly with all the math behind the scenes:
http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage
 
Kennedy, your argument is persuasive. Suggest you write a book on
scanning, with a chapter (or more) about this confusion (mainly among
amateurs, like myself) between scanning at maximum optical resolution
vs. scanning at printing resolution, and scaling to output size. Books
I have on scanning emphasize setting output resolution for prepress,
then scaling to output size. You (and many others, I might add) are
purists. Erewhon, Wayne, and the authors are relativists. : )) But,
I'm serious, and we are in philosophical waters.

The question is to what degree does one need purity? A second question
is, does one want to deal with output issues and get them over with at
the scan, or deal with them at printout? It's a case of pay now, or pay
later. It's also a case of tolerating large files.

Finally, it's been assumed in this thread that people are printing on
their desktop printers (HP, Epson, etc.) All I can say is that I sent a
few uploads of my scans to iPhoto & have been blown away by the
results. Also, $0.15/4x6, 2-day delivery by snail. Larger sizes
available. As far as I'm concerned, the days of the desktop imaging
printer are numbered. As digital cameras flourish, the scanner may not
be far behind.

It's all academic. It doesn't matter whether you scan for output
resolution or whether you scan at native optical resolution. It * just
* doesn't * matter. Well, it might, if you are an artist, bent upon
"total control." But, the artists who've written books about how they
scan always have output resolution as a priority. They go into it in
great detail, with whole chapters. Are they just writing fillers?

It really gets down to the print, whether on a desktop or offset. It's
what the printer requires & you are right detailing the different ppi
(dpi) demands of HP vs. Epson printers. Any reader of this thread
should know the minimum dpi of their printer, which is the lower of the
two output resolutions advertised.

And, so much overlooked, is why a 720 dpi Epson printer needs only 240
dpi output resolution, something I learned some time, ago. It's simple.
An RGB pixel (dot) has three color channels: Red, Green, and Blue. The
printer effectively prints these 3 channels, even tho it may have 5 or
more color inks. Divide 720 by the 3 channels & you get 240 dpi per
channel. Remember, the printer prints whatever is in each of the 3
channels in a pixel, for a total of 720 dpi.
 
One4All said:
It's all academic. It doesn't matter whether you scan for output
resolution or whether you scan at native optical resolution. It * just
* doesn't * matter.

I think it does (I've been persuaded by a very logical, simple, and
convincing argument). There is no downside to setting the dimensions of the
slide and scanning at the scanner's max optical resolution. It givesa fast
scan free of interpolation of any kind. The other methods suggested don't.
That makes it a "it actually matters' to me.

BTW, thanks for the tip re iPhoto. Very reasonable.
 
And, so much overlooked, is why a 720 dpi Epson printer needs only 240
dpi output resolution, something I learned some time, ago. It's simple.
An RGB pixel (dot) has three color channels: Red, Green, and Blue. The
printer effectively prints these 3 channels, even tho it may have 5 or
more color inks. Divide 720 by the 3 channels & you get 240 dpi per
channel. Remember, the printer prints whatever is in each of the 3
channels in a pixel, for a total of 720 dpi.

That sounds reasonable, but then, Epson photo printers also use black
ink, don't they? (And not just for B&W printing). I don't have an
Epson, but I seem to remember that the high end ones actually have 2
black inks, one used for color printing, and another used with B&W. If
that's true, then how does the black ink figure into this calculation?
Charlie Hoffpauir
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/
 
SNIP
The question is to what degree does one need purity?

As the saying goes:
Aim low, and you'll shoot low.
Aim high, and you'll shoot higher.

Personally I attempt to aim as high as feasible within the time/budget
constraints.

A second question is, does one want to deal with output
issues and get them over with at the scan, or deal with
them at printout?

Deficiencies become harder to remedie as you get further down the
workflow. The same principles apply to quality management in
manufacturing and elsewhere. It ultimately (literally) pays to do it
right, early.

SNIP
It's all academic. It doesn't matter whether you scan for
output resolution or whether you scan at native optical
resolution. It * just * doesn't * matter. Well, it might, if you
are an artist, bent upon "total control." But, the artists
who've written books about how they scan always have
output resolution as a priority. They go into it in great detail,
with whole chapters. Are they just writing fillers?

Not all of them ;-)
In business practice, one can beat competition with a better quality
product/service or with a lower price. The lower price model is often
the worse proposition in the long run. There are a few other factors,
however this is not a marketing group, but scanner/technology group.

SNIP
And, so much overlooked, is why a 720 dpi Epson printer needs only
240
dpi output resolution, something I learned some time, ago. It's
simple.
An RGB pixel (dot) has three color channels: Red, Green, and Blue.
The
printer effectively prints these 3 channels, even tho it may have 5
or
more color inks. Divide 720 by the 3 channels & you get 240 dpi per
channel. Remember, the printer prints whatever is in each of the 3
channels in a pixel, for a total of 720 dpi.

I'm sorry to tell you that you've learned wrong. Each of the single
color 720 pixels per linear inch consists of a multitude of smaller
droplets (depending on printer model up to 32 - 64 or more plus
background color if none are fired). All those droplets (some of them
are mixtures of multiple colors and variable number of pico-litre
droplets) are used to dither (fill-in with a pattern) a single pixel
position, so a whole range of colors is possible within a single pixel
area of (1/720)^2 of an inch. If the dithering also uses error
diffusion, then the remaining slight color error of one pixel is
compensated by the surrounding ones.

Bart
 
SNIP
That sounds reasonable, but then, Epson photo printers also use
black ink, don't they? (And not just for B&W printing). I don't have
an Epson, but I seem to remember that the high end ones
actually have 2 black inks, one used for color printing, and another
used with B&W. If that's true, then how does the black ink figure
into this calculation?

The calculation is wrong, so it doesn't.

Inkjet printers use a process called "dithering with error diffusion"
to produce one of many possible colors *per pixel*, for each pixel at
each 1/720th of an inch.

Bart
 
One4All said:
And, so much overlooked, is why a 720 dpi Epson printer needs only 240
dpi output resolution, something I learned some time, ago. It's simple.
An RGB pixel (dot) has three color channels: Red, Green, and Blue. The
printer effectively prints these 3 channels, even tho it may have 5 or
more color inks. Divide 720 by the 3 channels & you get 240 dpi per
channel. Remember, the printer prints whatever is in each of the 3
channels in a pixel, for a total of 720 dpi.
I do not know, or care, where you "learned" this misinformation from,
but I strongly advise you to "unlearn" it PDQ, and stop propagating it,
because it is completely wrong!!!!

Firstly, Epson printers do not print with three red, green and blue
channels. They, in common with most other inkjets, print using 4
colours as a minimum - cyan, magenta, yellow and black! Using your
misinformation, that would actually yield an optimum resolution of 720/4
= 180ppi. Now, try printing something at your "optimum" and compare it
to 240 or 360ppi. Strange that neither 180ppi nor 240ppi is as sharp as
the 360ppi image.

Secondly and more importantly, simple observation demonstrates that
*ALL* Epson desktop printers will produce vastly more resolution at
720ppi than at 240ppi if your media itself is capable of accepting the
ink without smearing - resolution which is not only visible, but
measurable. Most of the time, that resolution simply is not necessary,
because it is well beyond the resolution of an unaided eye at typical
viewing distances. However, there are occasions where it is useful. For
example, I print a sheet of "contact" prints on high gloss paper which
is interleaved with my negative and slide film sheets in my archives.
These are usually viewed under magnification - and printing the contact
sheet at 720ppi *does* make a significant difference to the magnified
image quality.

However, printing at more than 720ppi makes no improvement whatsoever
but actually introduces visible artefacts, even though the printer is
capable of laying down ink dots (of each colour!) at resolutions far in
excess of 720ppi.

The reason for the 720ppi limit is nothing whatsoever to do with the
printer. It is due to the native resolution of the printer *driver*,
which resamples all images to 720ppi on desktop printers before applying
a stochastic dither at the ink dot resolution. This process is similar
to, although much more advanced than, the basic Floyd-Steinberg
stochastic dither algorithm first published around 1968.

Another consequence of the 720ppi print driver resolution is the maximum
print size of desktop range using the standard Epson drivers. This is
becuse they can only handle 32000 pixels in any direction (an old
limitation of Photoshop), and this corresponds to 44". The large format
printers, with their native print driver resolution of 360ppi can cope
with images up to 89" in either axis.

The reason why 240ppi is a *good* resolution (NOT the *best* resolution)
to use with Epson printers is because it is an integer division of the
printer driver's native resolution. Hence all pixels in the image are
given equal weighting in the final print and there are no
down/upsampling artefacts. This is also true of the higher resolution
of 360ppi, which will produce visually better results than 240ppi on
high resolution media.

Whether you want to obtain the best from your scanner and printer may be
a matter of personal taste and objectives, so I have chosen not to
respond to that aspect of your post, but this point is a question of
fact. And the fact is that your information is completely wrong. You
appear to confusing the operation of inkjet printers with the Bayer
filter matrix on most colour digital cameras. There is no connection.
 
SNIP
Another consequence of the 720ppi print driver resolution is the
maximum print size of desktop range using the standard Epson
drivers. This is becuse they can only handle 32000 pixels in any
direction (an old limitation of Photoshop), and this corresponds to
44". The large format printers, with their native print driver
resolution of 360ppi can cope with images up to 89" in either axis.

And in addition to that, it may be worthwhile to mention that for
desktop printers that accept rolls of paper, some software (e.g.
Qimage) allows to print more than 32000 pixels @ 720 ppi in one
dimension by printing a multi-page poster, with the individual pages
printed without spacing between them (useful for panoramas). This only
applies to print drivers that have a "roll" or "banner" option for the
paper feed.
The reason why 240ppi is a *good* resolution (NOT the *best*
resolution) to use with Epson printers is because it is an integer
division of the printer driver's native resolution. Hence all
pixels in the image are given equal weighting in the final print and
there are no down/upsampling artefacts. This is also true of the
higher resolution of 360ppi, which will produce visually better
results than 240ppi on high resolution media.

And again in addition to that, printing at a higher ppi allows to
sharpen at that higher ppi which improves apparent sharpness.

Bart
 
The question is to what degree does one need purity?

That's subjective and depends on each person's requirements. There are
no rules for subjective taste.
It's all academic. It doesn't matter whether you scan for output
resolution or whether you scan at native optical resolution. It * just
* doesn't * matter.

It matters *immensely*! Actually, that's the only thing that does
matter.

Now, it may not matter to you or anyone who aims for a quick-and-dirty
printout - but that's firmly in the domain of *subjective*.

But *objectively* speaking the only resolution which does make sense
to scan at, is native resolution. Why? Many reasons. For example, one
can always go from native resolution to anything else, but one can
never go back to native resolution and maintain *objective* quality.
It really gets down to the print

No, it doesn't. Print is just one possible aim. I for one - if we are
into subjective - never prints and never will print.

Others aims are screen output, but most importantly archiving!
Digitizing an image stops its deterioration. And to archive at
anything other than native resolution doesn't make any sense.

Now you may point out at the subject line and say that this is all
about printing, but the problem there is that the subject line is
incoherent. It combines two different things which - as framed - have
very little (virtually nothing) to do with each other. Scanning and
printing and two separate subjects.

It's like asking "Buying tomatoes: What cooking temperature?". Buying
is one thing, cooking them is quite another. Just like scanning is one
thing, and printing is another. However, just like with tomatoes, the
better the quality of what goes in, the better the cooked result.

All this talking about food is starting to make me hungry! ;o)

Don.
 
Don said:
It matters *immensely*! Actually, that's the only thing that does
matter.

Now, it may not matter to you or anyone who aims for a quick-and-dirty
printout - but that's firmly in the domain of *subjective*.

But *objectively* speaking the only resolution which does make sense
to scan at, is native resolution. Why? Many reasons. For example, one
can always go from native resolution to anything else, but one can
never go back to native resolution and maintain *objective* quality.

Don.

From what I've gathered (or misinterpreted from this thread), if you scan
at native resolution and then print/display at something other than the
scanned resolution, won't the quality of the image be reduced by the
interpolation or averaging of the data saved for the image vs. scanning at
the resolution it's intended to be displayed or printed at? For example,
I've got an Epson 4180 with a resolution (I think) of 4800 dpi. If I scan
my 1.4 x 0.92 in slide at 4800 dpi with a target size equal to the original,
I'll have something like 27,000,000 points of information. If I then print
a 5 x 7 at 300 dpi, I only print 2,900,000 points or 10% of the information
I have. Isn't that resampling going to reduce the quality of the image over
one scanned at 300 dpi to the actual 5 x 7 target size? Or does the
printing just pick 10% of the points to use which is no worse than the
original scan only collecting 10% as much information?
 
From what I've gathered (or misinterpreted from this thread), if you scan
at native resolution and then print/display at something other than the
scanned resolution, won't the quality of the image be reduced by the
interpolation or averaging of the data saved for the image

Yes, because only ONE step of interpolation is performed, and that can
be a much higher quality of interpolation than is available in the
scanner driver.
vs. scanning at
the resolution it's intended to be displayed or printed at?

No, because that requires the use of a limited performance interpolation
in the scanner driver and an assumption that your output will always be
at the size and resolution it was originally intended to be - otherwise
you have and additional, and perhaps two, interpolations steps to add,
one of which will be a low quality interpolation in the printer.
For example,
I've got an Epson 4180 with a resolution (I think) of 4800 dpi. If I scan
my 1.4 x 0.92 in slide at 4800 dpi with a target size equal to the original,
I'll have something like 27,000,000 points of information. If I then print
a 5 x 7 at 300 dpi, I only print 2,900,000 points or 10% of the information
I have.

No. You will have 2,900,000 pixels, but with a decent interpolation
scheme that will correspond to a lot more than 10% of the original
information.
Isn't that resampling going to reduce the quality of the image over
one scanned at 300 dpi to the actual 5 x 7 target size?

That depends on whether you choose a better resampling algorithm than
the one in your scanner driver, which has been selected for speed rather
than quality. If you use nearest neighbour then you will be no worse
than the scanner, but with the right choice you could be a lot better
off.
Or does the
printing just pick 10% of the points to use which is no worse than the
original scan only collecting 10% as much information?
Certainly, directly printing the original full optical resolution image
will simply apply the same decimation of data as if you decimated at
scan time. However both of these approaches will be inferior to
scanning at the optimum resolution for the scanner, printing at the
optimum resolution for the printer and using the best interpolation
algorithm available to transition the scanner output to the printer
input once, and once only. You won't be any worse than the two methods
you described, but you can be a lot better.
 
Kennedy said:
Yes, because only ONE step of interpolation is performed, and that can
be a much higher quality of interpolation than is available in the
scanner driver.

Kennedy, you are confusing interpolation (resampling) with scaling. See
Wayne Fulton's "A Few Scanning Tips."
 
Kennedy, you are confusing interpolation (resampling) with scaling.
No I am not and only a fool would suggest that.

There is only *one* magnification for each scanner/printer combination
which invokes resampling free scaling. If you wish to restrict yourself
to that output size for your 35mm slides that is fine, but generally
people want a lot more flexibility, and that involves resampling. The
objective is to do that with the minimum image quality loss, which you
certainly won't do just by scaling directly to an output size on the
scanner driver.
 
Kennedy McEwen ([email protected]) wrote:
: In article <[email protected]>,

[............]
: Secondly and more importantly, simple observation demonstrates that
: *ALL* Epson desktop printers will produce vastly more resolution at
: 720ppi than at 240ppi if your media itself is capable of accepting the

I have a question here -

Is this true that ALL Epson printers have a standard 720ppi basic printer
resolution, from the lowest to highest priced models? .... and does this
apply to even their oldest color printers - which may have survived years
of infrequent use?

The one that I am most interested in is the Epson Stylus C60, but others
may have even older and lower cost / lower tech versions and also be
interested in this information.

The Epson "Printer Basics" handbook which came with my printer gives NO
technical specs for the printer that I can find.

Ben F.
 
From what I've gathered (or misinterpreted from this thread), if you scan
at native resolution and then print/display at something other than the
scanned resolution, won't the quality of the image be reduced by the
interpolation or averaging of the data saved for the image vs. scanning at
the resolution it's intended to be displayed or printed at?

Yes. However, you are starting from an optimal point. Even if you do
change resolution for a desired output (be it printing or screen
display) there will only be one interpolation. If, on the other hand,
you scan at non-native resolution the scanner will already have
interpolated the data once. And then every time you do something to it
will be interpolated again resulting in cumulative deterioration.

Now, depending on the usage and/or subjective requirements that may
not matter. But if we're talking about theory, that's what's
happening.
For example,
I've got an Epson 4180 with a resolution (I think) of 4800 dpi. If I scan
my 1.4 x 0.92 in slide at 4800 dpi with a target size equal to the original,
I'll have something like 27,000,000 points of information. If I then print
a 5 x 7 at 300 dpi, I only print 2,900,000 points or 10% of the information
I have. Isn't that resampling going to reduce the quality of the image over
one scanned at 300 dpi to the actual 5 x 7 target size?

Yes again, but it will be done by the scanner software (probably a
quick-and-dirty algorithm). You're not gaining anything by doing this.
Quite the contrary. You are then locked into this scanned resolution.

If, at a later date, you want to print again (after the first print
has faded) but at a different resolution (you got a new printer in the
meantime) you will have to interpolate this image to a new resolution.

That's bad on so many levels. First of all, it's likely to be a higher
resolution, so this new interpolation will be "invented" pixels. You
can't recover higher resolution from a lower one! However, had you
scanned at native resolution there would be no such loss of quality.

But let's say, for this second printing, you're scaling down. That
would be a second interpolation, so more loss of quality. Etc.

Now, you may say, I'll just scan again at this new resolution, then.
Well, at least two problems with that: One, you will indeed have to
scan again which is both a major pain and a hassle, including having
to edit the image all over again. Two, your slide has not stood still,
but steadily deteriorated over time. So, more loss of quality.

Therefore, the best option is to scan at native resolution and maximum
bit depth, preferably as raw as possible (with some exceptions),
archive, and then use this archived version either for immediate
consumption (print or screen) or in the future to accommodate new
printers, new displays, etc.

Don.
 
Ben Fullerton said:
Kennedy McEwen ([email protected]) wrote:
: In article <[email protected]>,

[............]
: Secondly and more importantly, simple observation demonstrates that
: *ALL* Epson desktop printers will produce vastly more resolution at
: 720ppi than at 240ppi if your media itself is capable of accepting the

I have a question here -

Is this true that ALL Epson printers have a standard 720ppi basic printer
resolution, from the lowest to highest priced models?

No, most of the drivers for the large footprint professional Epson
printers resample at 360ppi. However, all of the desktop consumer
models and one or two of the most recent pro models, resample at 720ppi.
.... and does this
apply to even their oldest color printers - which may have survived years
of infrequent use?
Yes - right back to their original colour printer. The only issue with
those early printers was that having resampled the data to that
resolution, the ink dot resolution and dither algorithm was inadequate
to exploit it. This meant that the 720ppi output appeared quite noisy
and the measurable resolution fell off quite rapidly as contrast fell.
These days, with 2880dpi inks of 6 or more colours on some models and
vastly improved dither algorithms, the resolution holds up remarkably
well even on low contrast areas. However, you do need the very best
media to prevent the ink from spreading if achieving that resolution is
important to you, such as when printing images that will be viewed under
2-4x magnification.
The one that I am most interested in is the Epson Stylus C60, but others
may have even older and lower cost / lower tech versions and also be
interested in this information.
Yes, the C60 certainly uses a 720ppi native resolution print driver.
The Epson "Printer Basics" handbook which came with my printer gives NO
technical specs for the printer that I can find.
That's right, it isn't something that Epson or other manufacturers
readily publish, however they have confirmed this is the case when
questioned directly.
 
Kennedy McEwen ([email protected]) wrote:
: >Kennedy McEwen ([email protected]) wrote:
: >[............]
: >: Secondly and more importantly, simple observation demonstrates that
: >: *ALL* Epson desktop printers will produce vastly more resolution at
: >: 720ppi than at 240ppi if your media itself is capable of accepting the
: >
: >I have a question here -
: >
: >Is this true that ALL Epson printers have a standard 720ppi basic printer
: >resolution, from the lowest to highest priced models?

: No, most of the drivers for the large footprint professional Epson
: printers resample at 360ppi. However, all of the desktop consumer
: models and one or two of the most recent pro models, resample at 720ppi.

Thanks for the detailed response ...... but I am a bit uncertain about my
understanding of the above line.

The way that I read it, IF the image is sent to the printer with a
specified dimension based on printing at anything other than 720ppi, the
printer resamples so that the print dimensions are as specified but with
the ppi now scaled to 720.
eg. If I edit my image for a 4" x 6" print at 300ppi, then the printer
will have to resample, more than doubling the ppi, to give me a 4" x 6"
print on the final paper image - but if I process for a 2880 x 4320 pixel
image, it will print, *with no further resampling AND better quality, as a
4" x 6" print.
.... and, if I take that same 2880 x 4320 pixel file to someone who has a
"professional" Epson printer and have it printed as-is (no printer
resampling), I will get a 8" x 12" print.

Changing the topic a bit .....
I am just getting started in the 'home printed photo' part of the hobby
and have tried some of the $1.00 per 8 1/2 x 11 sheet papers. I am now
about to try the more affordable Staples 'matte finish', '50 sheets
professional paper', heavy weight .... bright white ..... acid free .....
fast drying ..... etc. etc.

Any suggestions on the best value per dollar papers? Over the next year or
so, I may want to print a few hundred 8.5 x 11 pages and do not have
unlimited 'disposable income' (BTW, I am in Canada and want to buy from
local suppliers.)

Thanks again for the help.

Ben F.

: > .... and does this
: >apply to even their oldest color printers - which may have survived years
: >of infrequent use?
: >
: Yes - right back to their original colour printer. The only issue with
: those early printers was that having resampled the data to that
: resolution, the ink dot resolution and dither algorithm was inadequate
: to exploit it. This meant that the 720ppi output appeared quite noisy
: and the measurable resolution fell off quite rapidly as contrast fell.
: These days, with 2880dpi inks of 6 or more colours on some models and
: vastly improved dither algorithms, the resolution holds up remarkably
: well even on low contrast areas. However, you do need the very best
: media to prevent the ink from spreading if achieving that resolution is
: important to you, such as when printing images that will be viewed under
: 2-4x magnification.

: >The one that I am most interested in is the Epson Stylus C60, but others
: >may have even older and lower cost / lower tech versions and also be
: >interested in this information.
: >
: Yes, the C60 certainly uses a 720ppi native resolution print driver.

: >The Epson "Printer Basics" handbook which came with my printer gives NO
: >technical specs for the printer that I can find.
: >
: That's right, it isn't something that Epson or other manufacturers
: readily publish, however they have confirmed this is the case when
: questioned directly.
: --
: Kennedy
: Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
: A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed.
: Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)
 
Ben Fullerton wrote:

Any suggestions on the best value per dollar papers? Over the next year or
so, I may want to print a few hundred 8.5 x 11 pages and do not have
unlimited 'disposable income' (BTW, I am in Canada and want to buy from
local suppliers.)

Hi Ben...

Please pardon me interrupting, but seeing as you mentioned
limited income...

If you have a Superstore out there in Nova Scotia you might
want to try one of the products they carry for entry level
paper. If nothing else, it's great for experimenting and
hand-outs.

Called NCR deluxe glossy photo paper. Comes in boxes of
100 sheets for about 30 dollars canadian. Purple and
black box. Smaller packs are available, but at a premium
price.

Just a suggestion.

Take care.

Ken.

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with Superstore, Loblaws,
or NCR.
 
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