$200 printer decision to make

[Glen S]

I want to buy a decent quality photo printer for about C$200, and I want
the following:

must haves:
excellent B&W printing
excellent color printing
good or better text printing
half decent speed

nice to haves:

print to cd media
2 sided printing
on board printing controls
direct media input (memory sticks etc..)

I'm not all that hung up on the print from printer or read from cards
etc... features as I will likely always use the PC, but it may be nice
for my wife to use, ditto with the print to cd media - nice for cd gifts
etc.. but is it worth the extra cost of the media?

I spent the day looking at various outlets and have them narrowed down
(sort of) to Epson 300, HP 7760 and Canon ip5000. Each has a feature I
like, epson has the print to media (although I read today the canon does
as well, but none of the salesmen mentioned it), HP has the photo-grey
cartridge option (a big plus in my books), and canon has 2 sided
printing and 9600 max res. Both sales people I talked to that seemed to
have *some* knowledge said that the canon is probably the best output of
all these three, and they both agreed that the refills were more
economical than the others. The downside was the printhead may give
grief if not used frequently. The plus for the HP was that printheads
are built in, therefore always "new", but expensive, when I asked how
much better the B&W output was I got blank stares. The epson plus was
the printable media, but if the canon has that as well then the edge
goes to the canon.

I guess the deciding factor will be the cost of refills and the B&W
output, as any reviews I have read online only cloud the issue more.

Then to further compicate the matter of course I spot the epson "all in
one" on my way out, for about $265 with $50 rebate that prints *and*
scans a decent 4800 X 1200 and will let me retire my mammoth old HP 4C
SCSI scanjet!

Any advice from those more knowledgeable than me on this NG?

TIA & cheers!

 

[Bill Crocker]

Epson R300.

Bill Crocker

 

[Bill]

I want to buy a decent quality photo printer for about C$200, and I want
the following:

must haves:
excellent B&W printing
excellent color printing
good or better text printing
half decent speed

The above applies to most printers, but for good B&W printing, you
really need a photo-grey cartridge.

I spent the day looking at various outlets and have them narrowed down
(sort of) to Epson 300, HP 7760 and Canon ip5000. Each has a feature I
like, epson has the print to media (although I read today the canon does
as well, but none of the salesmen mentioned it), HP has the photo-grey
cartridge option (a big plus in my books), and canon has 2 sided
printing and 9600 max res. Both sales people I talked to that seemed to
have *some* knowledge said that the canon is probably the best output of
all these three,

Output quality depends on a lot of factors. But if you use genuine ink
and photo paper, all of them produce excellent photos that would be as
good or better than lab prints.

and they both agreed that the refills were more
economical than the others.

If you mean ink costs, then no they're all quite similar. If you
correctly compare prices of the various cartridges, you'll find they're
pretty close in price.

The downside was the printhead may give
grief if not used frequently.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to matter if the printer is used a lot or
a little, the printheads just don't seem to last as long as Canon
claims.

My Canon i850 never had a clog until a few days before it died. Then the
printhead failed completely and without any other warning. A new head
cost as much as a new printer of similar design, so I dumped it.

The plus for the HP was that printheads
are built in, therefore always "new", but expensive,

Since I've owned both Canon and HP printers, I can assure you that ink
costs for HP is not what many people claim.

If you look at the prices on the shelves, the HP seems more expensive up
front because the colour cartridge contains all three colours. But page
yield from the HP is similar to Canon's ink tanks (x 3) and costs are
similar.

You can't compare a 3-colour cartridge to a 1-colour ink tank. You need
to buy all three ink tanks to get equivalent page yields and colours.
That's why Canon (and Epson) SEEMS to be cheaper, but they're not.

when I asked how
much better the B&W output was I got blank stares.

Currently the HP with its grey photo cartridge is among the best in this
regard. You can read some reviews for specific details, but my own
prints blow the Canon and Epson away.

The epson plus was
the printable media, but if the canon has that as well then the edge
goes to the canon.

I don't believe Canon or HP allow CD/DVD printing in north america due
to silly intervention laws.

Then to further compicate the matter of course I spot the epson "all in
one" on my way out, for about $265 with $50 rebate that prints *and*
scans a decent 4800 X 1200 and will let me retire my mammoth old HP 4C
SCSI scanjet!

If you want an all in one unit, then all of the above is moot.

 

[Glen S]

Glen S wrote:




The above applies to most printers, but for good B&W printing, you
really need a photo-grey cartridge.




Output quality depends on a lot of factors. But if you use genuine ink
and photo paper, all of them produce excellent photos that would be as
good or better than lab prints.




If you mean ink costs, then no they're all quite similar. If you
correctly compare prices of the various cartridges, you'll find they're
pretty close in price.




Unfortunately it doesn't seem to matter if the printer is used a lot or
a little, the printheads just don't seem to last as long as Canon
claims.

My Canon i850 never had a clog until a few days before it died. Then the
printhead failed completely and without any other warning. A new head
cost as much as a new printer of similar design, so I dumped it.




Since I've owned both Canon and HP printers, I can assure you that ink
costs for HP is not what many people claim.

If you look at the prices on the shelves, the HP seems more expensive up
front because the colour cartridge contains all three colours. But page
yield from the HP is similar to Canon's ink tanks (x 3) and costs are
similar.

You can't compare a 3-colour cartridge to a 1-colour ink tank. You need
to buy all three ink tanks to get equivalent page yields and colours.
That's why Canon (and Epson) SEEMS to be cheaper, but they're not.




Currently the HP with its grey photo cartridge is among the best in this
regard. You can read some reviews for specific details, but my own
prints blow the Canon and Epson away.




I don't believe Canon or HP allow CD/DVD printing in north america due
to silly intervention laws.




If you want an all in one unit, then all of the above is moot.

Why is that? IIRC the all-in-one epson I was looking at used the same
cartridges as the 300R and the output was identical as far as I could
see... But it may be moot as you say, my old scanjet still does the job
and for any serious picture scanning I use my Nikon ls2000 film
scanner..so I think an all-in-one is not in the running.

 

[PJX]

I have had the HP 7760 for a year and I like it just fine.

I've just refilled the #57 color cartridge for the first time so you
can see that i'm not a heavy user. Since I bought the refill kit
with extra ink, my printing ink costs should be less than a penny per
4x6 color photo. I printed out about 40 xmas cards and used less than
a 1/4 of an ink cartridge.

The memory card reader is nice and I use it about half the time and
the usb cable the other half.

I like the idea of a new print head with each new cartridge.
Especially when I can refill.

PJ

 

[Glen S]

I have had the HP 7760 for a year and I like it just fine.

I've just refilled the #57 color cartridge for the first time so you
can see that i'm not a heavy user. Since I bought the refill kit
with extra ink, my printing ink costs should be less than a penny per
4x6 color photo. I printed out about 40 xmas cards and used less than
a 1/4 of an ink cartridge.

The memory card reader is nice and I use it about half the time and
the usb cable the other half.

I like the idea of a new print head with each new cartridge.
Especially when I can refill.

PJ

Is that HP or no name refill?

I am leaning towards the HP right now, mostly for the fact that it has
the photo grey option. But if the online boxing day sales are good
enough, perhaps I'll go for both the HP and the IP5000....


cheers!

 

[PJX]

Is that HP or no name refill?

I am leaning towards the HP right now, mostly for the fact that it has
the photo grey option. But if the online boxing day sales are good
enough, perhaps I'll go for both the HP and the IP5000....


cheers!

It came with a black and a color and I had to buy a photo color
cartridge photo black, light cyan and light magenta). The toolbox
showed my color was just about empty, but truth is it wasn't even
close to half empty. I could have printed twice the photos before it
ran dry. I just feel a cartridge should Never run dry.
I wish I was talented enough to need a photo grey cartridge, but I
doubt I'll ever print a black and white image on purpose.

Pj

 

[David Chien]

excellent B&W printing

good or better text printing

This point alone = laser printer. You can buy a Samsung Laser on
sale for $99 USD, and use the other $99 to buy a nice 6-color photo
printer that meets the other requirements.

Unless you mean B&W photo printing, which you didn't specify. (In
which case, all of the current inkjets will do decent text prints.)

If that's the case, then you're stuck with the HP's w/optional gray
cartridge for decent B&W photo printing out of the box w/o color casts.
And maybe one or two Canon or Epson printers that have optional
gray/black cartridges for B&W printing.

But if you're really serious about B&W photo prints, then there's
only one -- B&W Piezography system at www.inkjetmall.com -- this is
serious B&W Photo printing and you'll get all the pluses you'd want --
long archival life, superior B&W prints, museum quality prints, etc.

Also see groups.yahoo.com for the Epson Inkjet mailing list for talk
on this system.

excellent color printing

Any 6+ color photo inkjet printer made today will meet this - any
brand, Canon, HP, Epson.

half decent speed

Canons are among the world's fastest in general when you pick their
top-of-the-line photo inkjets.

2 sided printing

Manual or auto? Very few have auto duplex: some HPs, some Canons.
Otherwise, any will let you do it if you manually flip the paper and
reinsert.

I'm not all that hung up on the print from printer or read from cards
etc... features as I will likely always use the PC, but it may be nice
for my wife to use, ditto with the print to cd media - nice for cd gifts
etc.. but is it worth the extra cost of the media?

Expect 4x6" prints to range about ~$0.50 per print on any 6+ color
inkjet today. Exceptions include nitch printers such as the Epson
PictureMate priced about $0.29 per 4x6" print.

As for CD-R inkjet printable media, that's not too expensive vs. more
costly labels (which have additional labor costs involved to peel &
stick). Do a price search and you'll find them.

for example, meritline.com has them at $25 / 100pk for very nice
Ritek discs (high quality)
http://meritline.com/ritek-cdr-52x-80min-700mb-printable-blank-disc.html

economical than the others. The downside was the printhead may give
grief if not used frequently. The plus for the HP was that printheads

See www.pcmag.com and www.pcworld.com for their yearly reliability
articles. You can see how reliable each brand is. Pretty much here,
I've run Epsons and Canons for =years= straight w/o any problems. Just
drop in a new cartridge, and off I go.

much better the B&W output was I got blank stares. The epson plus was
the printable media, but if the canon has that as well then the edge
goes to the canon.

Here, if you're doing photo paper prints, keep in mind that the Epson
Letter sized Photo Glossy Paper (100pk ~$20@costco stores) and 4x6"
Premium Glossy (100pk ~$15 @ many places), remain the cheapest photo
papers available from the three main makers. Canon & HP papers cost
more, so you'll spend more. (also, you'll have to factor in ink costs)

I guess the deciding factor will be the cost of refills and the B&W
output, as any reviews I have read online only cloud the issue more.

www.inkjetmall.com -> CIS continuous bottle feed system.
If you're making thousands of inkjet prints, this =is= the way to go.
Much cheaper replacing a big bottle of ink rather than refills, and
far, far cheaper in the long run.

Then to further compicate the matter of course I spot the epson "all in
one" on my way out, for about $265 with $50 rebate that prints *and*
scans a decent 4800 X 1200 and will let me retire my mammoth old HP 4C
SCSI scanjet!

These 6+ color all-in-one photo combos are an excellent choice if you
want to have multiple devices in one. They may not be the fastest out
there, but they do a very good job all around and continue to be popular
in Japan (where space is a premium). Quality will be equal to any other
non-all-in-one models they have, so you're not losing anything here --
and only requires one cable to the PC! (rather than multiple for
seperate scanner, printer, copier, fax, film scanner, etc.)

www.deja.com has thousands of posts on this and similar subject lines.

 

[Mapanari]

I want to buy a decent quality photo printer for about C$200, and I want
the following:

must haves:
excellent B&W printing
excellent color printing
good or better text printing
half decent speed

Then to further compicate the matter of course I spot the epson "all in
one" on my way out, for about $265 with $50 rebate that prints *and*
scans a decent 4800 X 1200 and will let me retire my mammoth old HP 4C
SCSI scanjet!

Any advice from those more knowledgeable than me on this NG?

TIA & cheers!

Epsons are horrible printers.

They screw you on carts. They put chips on the carts to make sure you
don't refill them and then they're inefficent with ink so you go through
them like crazy.

My feeling is they do this on purpose, being "seiko" just like those idiots
at Sony, the stupid japs think they can screw everyone on overpriced stuff
and try and do what HP does and make all their million simply on cart
sales.

Never buy an Epson.

Never buy a LExmark, they're complete shit printers. Always at the bottom
of every rating.

You're left with Canon and HP.

I don't like HP's cart prices and that you have to throw away the whole
cart even if only one color is gone. Although they're not real hard to
refil, the canon is easier to refill and uses seperate ink carts.

Canon makes a cd printing iP series printer, but it's not sold in USA but
in europe and other places. Check around.

I did a lot of research, having been an HP user for life, then I bought an
Epson and was constantly angry at the stupid printer for many many reasons.
I got so mad at it I threw it into the trash can and didn't even bother
trying to sell if for the $25 it was worth on the open market.

My reserch led me to the Canon and I bought the iP3000 for the bang for the
buck and haven't been more happier in a long time!

 

[measekite]

Epsons are horrible printers.

NO REALLY BUT NOT THE BEST CHOICE

They screw you on carts.

MORE THAN THE OTHERS

They put chips on the carts to make sure you
don't refill them

IN THEIR CASE THAT IS GOOD

and then they're inefficent with ink so you go through
them like crazy.

My feeling is they do this on purpose, being "seiko" just like those idiots
at Sony, the stupid japs think they can screw everyone on overpriced stuff
and try and do what HP does and make all their million simply on cart
sales.

Never buy an Epson.

Never buy a *LExmark*, they're complete *shit *printers. Always at the bottom
of every rating.

You're left with Canon and HP.

I don't like HP's cart prices and that you have to throw away the whole
cart even if only one color is gone.

NOT IN ALL MODELS. BUT YOU DO HAVE THE LEAST AMOUNT OF PROBLEMS WITH
HEAD CLOGS.

Although they're not real hard to
refil, the canon is easier to refill

WHO CARES

and uses seperate ink carts.

Canon makes a cd printing iP series printer, but it's not sold in USA but
in europe and other places. Check around.

I did a lot of research, having been an HP user for life, then I bought an
Epson and was constantly angry at the stupid printer for many many reasons.
I got so mad at it I threw it into the trash can and didn't even bother
trying to sell if for the $25 it was worth on the open market.

My reserch led me to the Canon and I bought the iP3000 for the bang for the
buck and haven't been more happier in a long time!

THE IP4000 WOULD HAVE BEEN A MUCH MORE INTELLIGENT CHOICE

 

[Arthur Entlich]

And just exactly what country does Canon hail from?

While I agree that for this person's needs, I would probably recommend a
Canon 'i' printer, your comments regarding the origin of the
manufacturers are, as usual, racist. Then again, we've all come to
expect this from you.

For someone so quick to stereotype, you're one big stereotype.

Art

 

[measekite]

WHILE I DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS FOOL (Mapanari ) I AM REALLY HAPPY HE
PISSED MANY OF YOU OFF. YOU GUYS ARE ALMOST AS BIG A BIGGOT AS HIM.

 

[Mapanari]

NO REALLY BUT NOT THE BEST CHOICE

MORE THAN THE OTHERS

IN THEIR CASE THAT IS GOOD

NOT IN ALL MODELS. BUT YOU DO HAVE THE LEAST AMOUNT OF PROBLEMS WITH
HEAD CLOGS.

WHO CARES

THE IP4000 WOULD HAVE BEEN A MUCH MORE INTELLIGENT CHOICE

This coming from a shouter who posts in html.

If you're stuck on stupid, have a bovine looking face, and post like you
do, how can you expect anyone to pay any attention to what you say?

And I'll patiently explain to you why the iP400 is not the choice.
It costs about $50 more than the 300 and all you get is one more black
cart.
I printed a photo using my ip3000 on photo paper and it's better than what
I can get out of photo developing places.
I don't see the need to spend $50 more for imperceptable reasons.

--
b{-_-}d

I'm listening!

---Mapanari---

 

[measekite]

measekite <[email protected]>
wrote




This coming from a shouter who posts in html.

If you're stuck on stupid, have a bovine looking face, and post like you
do, how can you expect anyone to pay any attention to what you say?

And I'll patiently explain to you why the iP400

I ASKED CANON AND DAY SAY DAY NEVER MADE A IP400

is not the choice.
It costs about $50 more than the 300 and all you get is one more black
cart.
I printed a photo using my ip3000 on photo paper and it's better than what
I can get out of photo developing places.
I don't see the need to spend $50 more for imperceptable reasons.

DATS CAUSE YOU NEED INSITE

 

[aprestn5]

It *is* sold in the USA and Canada etc., but without the CD tray, with a
cover plate over the CD tray opening, and with Windows and Mac drivers that
disable CD printing when you tell them you live in the Americas. It's
called the iP4000.

And I'll patiently explain to you why the iP400 is not the choice.
It costs about $50 more than the 300 and all you get is one more black
cart.

Not necessarily; With both iP3000 and iP4000 being shifted to clearance
bins, sometimes shopping around pays off. Last week, I saw a local office
supplies store, not usually noted for low prices, clearing out iP4000s at
50% off their regular price - $10 *less* than I'd seen any iP3000s going
for hereabouts. I went back to the store just in time to get their last
one. Now to track down (or make) a CD tray......

 

[zakezuke]

Not necessarily; With both iP3000 and iP4000 being shifted to clearance

bins, sometimes shopping around pays off.

Looks that way in canada. In the states it's not so much the same...
except perhaps Staples where someone said they were selling off ip4000s
for $100 with a $50 rebate but I have not been able to conferm this.
The cheapest I saw in the states was march through july when the
ip3000/4000 were $60/$80 respectivly and a $20 rebate to boot. The
deal lasted so long that people forgot that the MSRP on these printers
was over $100.

 

[measekite]

YOU PAY FOR THE INK AND THE PRINTER IS FREE.

Looks that way in canada. In the states it's not so much the same...
except perhaps Staples where someone said they were selling off ip4000s
for $100 with a $50 rebate but I have not been able to conferm this.
The cheapest I saw in the states was march through july when the
ip3000/4000 were $60/$80 respectivly and a $20 rebate to boot. The
deal lasted so long that people forgot that the MSRP on these printers
was over $100.

 

[Gary Tait]

It *is* sold in the USA and Canada etc., but without the CD tray, with
a cover plate over the CD tray opening, and with Windows and Mac
drivers that disable CD printing when you tell them you live in the
Americas. It's called the iP4000.

Its not that simple, or complicated.

First of, yes the hardware is capable of CD printing. The "software" in
the printer is set to not enable the driver to print to CD. You diddle
with the eeprom settings using the diagnostic mode to "regionlize" it
for a region where CD and Letter printing is allowed, so the driver will
enabld CD printing.

On the x000 printers, the non-CD cover plate is there, which can be
removed for CD printing, and if desired, replaced by the proper CD Tray
inlet assembly. The new Pixmas have the tray inlet rollers in the US
model, so it simply is a matter of the eeprom and gett ing a tray.

I think all the Pixma line, particularily the 3000 to 6000, and their
x100/x200 counter parts as well.

 

[plew]

That's nothing new; like the razor is free & one pays for the blades.

I just got a Brother 5250DN which does duplexing, has usb 2.0, parallel
port & an ethernet port for $249 at Staples. A new 5250DN drum is $170
& toner cart is $70......the laser printer is definitely free & rated
at 30 ppm.

When the printer drum goes out at 25,000 pages a few years from now,
a new printer would be cheaper than a replacement drum.

 

[FB]

That's nothing new; like the razor is free & one pays for the blades.

I just got a Brother 5250DN which does duplexing, has usb 2.0, parallel
port & an ethernet port for $249 at Staples. A new 5250DN drum is $170
& toner cart is $70......the laser printer is definitely free & rated
at 30 ppm.

When the printer drum goes out at 25,000 pages a few years from now,
a new printer would be cheaper than a replacement drum.

It's news to him! He doesn't even own a printer. Can you believe he
actually posts in this printer ng?
Just goes to show you what a complete moron this idiot really is.
Kill file his stuck-on-stupid ass and be done with him.
Frank