XP recognising an external USB drive

[Davidk]

I have an external 40Gb hard drive - the type used in notebooks - in a casing
with a USB2.0 interface. It's connected to the PC via a separately powered
USB hub with a double plug cable. The PC has 4 other IDE/ SATA hard drives
on it, and they are recognised on cold start fine.

When cold starting XP, windows will not recognise the drive and display it
in explorer. The disk management tool does see it but there's a "not
initialised" flag on it and the colour bar is black.

Simply unplugging the cable from the drive, waiting 5 sec or so and plugging
it back in causes the drive to be recognised, and the data on it is
immediately accessible. No further work to do.

If I now re-start windows (Start/Turn off computer/Re-start - explicitly,
not powered down) the re-started XP recognises the USB drive immediately.

I also have BartPE recovery build using the original windows XP
distribution files, and when using this system booting from cold start using
a DVD, the USB drive is there immediately.

None of my searching thru the knowledgebase has uncovered a reason for this
behaviour. Various suggestions (separate double plug cable, expernal power
to the hub have not worked). I am somewhat at a loss to understand how XP
itself won't recognise the drive on cold start, but a recovery system using
the XP files will.

Does anyone know why XP is doing this, and how I can get XP to recognise the
drive on cold start?

 

[Anna]

I have an external 40Gb hard drive - the type used in notebooks - in a
casing
with a USB2.0 interface. It's connected to the PC via a separately
powered
USB hub with a double plug cable. The PC has 4 other IDE/ SATA hard
drives
on it, and they are recognised on cold start fine.

When cold starting XP, windows will not recognise the drive and display it
in explorer. The disk management tool does see it but there's a "not
initialised" flag on it and the colour bar is black.

Simply unplugging the cable from the drive, waiting 5 sec or so and
plugging
it back in causes the drive to be recognised, and the data on it is
immediately accessible. No further work to do.

If I now re-start windows (Start/Turn off computer/Re-start - explicitly,
not powered down) the re-started XP recognises the USB drive immediately.

I also have BartPE recovery build using the original windows XP
distribution files, and when using this system booting from cold start
using
a DVD, the USB drive is there immediately.

None of my searching thru the knowledgebase has uncovered a reason for
this
behaviour. Various suggestions (separate double plug cable, expernal
power
to the hub have not worked). I am somewhat at a loss to understand how XP
itself won't recognise the drive on cold start, but a recovery system
using
the XP files will.

Does anyone know why XP is doing this, and how I can get XP to recognise
the
drive on cold start?

David...
First of all...

These USB non-recognition problems of one sort or another (usually involving
an external HDD or flash drive) have been vexing all of us for some time
now. Hardly a day passes where queries roughly similar to yours are not
posted to this and other newsgroups dealing with XP issues.

We've become increasingly convinced that the relatively large number of
problems in this area involving the non-recognition of USB devices that
we've all been experiencing is an indication that there is something
seriously flawed with respect to either the USB 2.0 specifications, possibly
involving quality control issues affecting the manufacturer of these USB
devices as well as supporting components such as motherboards and other
USB-related components. Then too, we've become increasingly suspicious of
the XP OS as it relates to its recognition of and interaction with these USB
2.0 devices.

We have encountered far too many unexplained problems affecting
detection/recognition of these devices and their erratic functioning not to
believe that something is seriously amiss in this area.

We continually encounter situations where a USB 2.0 device - again,
generally involving a flash drive or USB external hard drive, will work
perfectly fine in one machine and not in another. And, in far too many
cases, we're unable to determine why this is so since we're unable to detect
any hardware/software problem in the balking machine that would cause this
non-recognition effect.

Anyway, now that I've gotten that out-of-the-way...

Because we've encountered problems from time-to-time using USB hubs (powered
or not), the only real advice I can give you re your specific problem is to
try connecting your USBEHD *directly* to the PC and *not* via a USB hub.
Since your USBEHD (fortunately) is equipped with a dual-head USB connector
the device should be able to get sufficient power from the PC's USB bus.
Naturally I'm assuming that your PC has two USB ports more-or-less side by
side. While I'm not really sanguine that that will resolve your problem,
give it a try if it's practical to do so.

I'm assuming your 2 1/2" USBEHD did not come with an auxiliary power supply
(as some do). If it did, I would recommend using that PSU and again directly
connecting the device to a USB port on your PC.
Anna

 

[Davidk]

Hi Anna,

Thank you for the response. Originally, I had the external HDD connected
directly to one of the PC USB ports, but these were not separately powered.
Whether using a single cable or a double cable connection on the direct USB
(motherboard) ports, the reaction of windows was as described.

I lived with it for a while and then as I needed more USB connections I
acquired the externally powered hub, and mindful of the previous advice,
re-configured the external drive and tried again. No luck this time either,
and this was when I posted the query.

The circumstances make me think that its a cold boot WinXP default
configuration problem. If plug n play can recognise the drive is there and
see it and its contents immediately, why can't the standard windows OS?
Specifically:
1. on cold boot winXP won't recognise the drive, but
2. once WinXP is started plug n play recognises the drive OK during a hot
insertion
3. on warm boot, after a hot plug n play insertion of the external drive,
WinXP will recognise the drive, so clearly there is some saved drive
information in RAM the OS only sees in this circumstance. Otherwise however
a warm boot looks much like a cold boot in that it starts from a motherboard
POST test and proceeds from there; and
4. the BartPE environment - which uses all the windows distribution files
from the specific distribution CD used to install the main windows OS to
create a CD bootable windows system (for recovery purposes) - will recognise
the external drive on cold boot

It would be nice if - finally - someone could finger this issue for good.
But for now I think your message is live with the PnP approach, tedious but
workable.

Davidk

 

[Anna]

Hi Anna,

Thank you for the response. Originally, I had the external HDD connected
directly to one of the PC USB ports, but these were not separately
powered.
Whether using a single cable or a double cable connection on the direct
USB
(motherboard) ports, the reaction of windows was as described.

I lived with it for a while and then as I needed more USB connections I
acquired the externally powered hub, and mindful of the previous advice,
re-configured the external drive and tried again. No luck this time
either,
and this was when I posted the query.

The circumstances make me think that its a cold boot WinXP default
configuration problem. If plug n play can recognise the drive is there
and
see it and its contents immediately, why can't the standard windows OS?
Specifically:
1. on cold boot winXP won't recognise the drive, but
2. once WinXP is started plug n play recognises the drive OK during a hot
insertion
3. on warm boot, after a hot plug n play insertion of the external
drive,
WinXP will recognise the drive, so clearly there is some saved drive
information in RAM the OS only sees in this circumstance. Otherwise
however
a warm boot looks much like a cold boot in that it starts from a
motherboard
POST test and proceeds from there; and
4. the BartPE environment - which uses all the windows distribution files
from the specific distribution CD used to install the main windows OS to
create a CD bootable windows system (for recovery purposes) - will
recognise
the external drive on cold boot

It would be nice if - finally - someone could finger this issue for good.
But for now I think your message is live with the PnP approach, tedious
but
workable.

Davidk

David...
Based on our experience with USBEHDs it is not unusual at all that the XP OS
will not detect the device upon a cold boot but will have no difficulty
recognizing the device following a powering off/powering on cycle re the
device. We have witnessed this behavior many times.

Making the situation even more bizarre, we have encountered precisely the
*opposite* situation (at least involving USBEHD devices that are equipped
with an auxiliary PSU), in that the OS will detect the external USBHDD
*only* if it is powered-on/connected at bootup.

Or, in the case of a non-auxiliary-powered USBEHD (where the device is
presumably receiving its power via the USB bus), a simple disconnect, then
reconnect, will result in device recognition.

We're just keeping our fingers crossed that the forthcoming USB 3.0 standard
will finally put an end to these endemic USB non-recognition problems.
Anna

 

[Davidk]

Hi Anna,

Useful to know my system is not unique - if I had not after searching the
knowledgebase. However, . . . .

what makes you think that it's the USB standard or an implementation of it
for external hard drives that causes this problem (WinXP whilst operating
erratically is blameless seems to be the underlying assumption in your
responses)? It's clear that something is mismatched, or poorly configured,
and I would have thought that it was equally possible that WinXP was as much
to blame as the USB standard. It may be something as simple as timing - the
external drive uses all the standard windows disk drivers, but in addition
needs the USB driver as well. By the time all this is loaded, the disk
recognition timeout may have elapsed. I recall in previous systems and OS
versions, faster and speedier hardware and software exposed problems in areas
which had previously worked well.

You haven't commented on the BartPE evidence I stated. If you go to
http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/ you'll find an explanation and a bunch of
download code that will - in combination with the Windows distribution CD and
the cab files on it - enable the creation of a full windows bootable CD
including some basic applications for crash recovery purposes.

I found that when I had done this, booting from that CD recognised the
external USB drive immediately. If the same OS files work in one case and
will not in another (on the same hardware), then some setup or configuration
issue in the malfunctioning component rather than the software itself is
likely to be the main cause. And hence my remarks. You'll note that the
infamous ini files with setup data of earlier windows versions are not absent
in WinXP, just hidden.

Thanks for the help.

Davidk

 

[smlunatick]

Hi Anna,

Useful to know my system is not unique - if I had not after searching the
knowledgebase.  However, . . . .

what makes you think that it's the USB standard or an implementation of it
for external hard drives that causes this problem (WinXP whilst operating
erratically is blameless seems to be the underlying assumption in your
responses)?  It's clear that something is mismatched, or poorly configured,
and I would have thought that it was equally possible that WinXP was as much
to blame as the USB standard.  It may be something as simple as timing - the
external drive uses all the standard windows disk drivers, but in addition
needs the USB driver as well.  By the time all this is loaded, the disk
recognition timeout may have elapsed.  I recall in previous systems andOS
versions, faster and speedier hardware and software exposed problems in areas
which had previously worked well.

You haven't commented on the BartPE evidence I stated.  If you go tohttp://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/you'll find an explanation and a bunch of
download code that will - in combination with the Windows distribution CDand
the cab files on it - enable the creation of a full windows bootable CD
including some basic applications for crash recovery purposes.  

I found that when I had done this, booting from that CD recognised the
external USB drive immediately.  If the same OS files work in one case and
will not in another (on the same hardware), then some setup or configuration
issue in the malfunctioning component rather than the software itself is
likely to be the main cause.  And hence my remarks.  You'll note thatthe
infamous ini files with setup data of earlier windows versions are not absent
in WinXP, just hidden.

Thanks for the help.

Davidk

I recently encountered a similar problem. My XP Pro SP3 was not
recognizing my Logitech QuickCam Pro 5000 at boot-up. I also had to
unplug / replug it to get it to work. Turned out I needed to re-
install my motherboard chipset drivers. After, it seems all my USB
devices are working as they should.

 

[msnews.microsoft.com]

Hi Anna,

Useful to know my system is not unique - if I had not after searching the
knowledgebase. However, . . . .

what makes you think that it's the USB standard or an implementation of it
for external hard drives that causes this problem (WinXP whilst operating
erratically is blameless seems to be the underlying assumption in your
responses)? It's clear that something is mismatched, or poorly
configured,
and I would have thought that it was equally possible that WinXP was as
much
to blame as the USB standard. It may be something as simple as timing -
the
external drive uses all the standard windows disk drivers, but in addition
needs the USB driver as well. By the time all this is loaded, the disk
recognition timeout may have elapsed. I recall in previous systems and OS
versions, faster and speedier hardware and software exposed problems in
areas
which had previously worked well.

You haven't commented on the BartPE evidence I stated. If you go to
http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/ you'll find an explanation and a bunch of
download code that will - in combination with the Windows distribution CD
and
the cab files on it - enable the creation of a full windows bootable CD
including some basic applications for crash recovery purposes.

I found that when I had done this, booting from that CD recognised the
external USB drive immediately. If the same OS files work in one case and
will not in another (on the same hardware), then some setup or
configuration
issue in the malfunctioning component rather than the software itself is
likely to be the main cause. And hence my remarks. You'll note that the
infamous ini files with setup data of earlier windows versions are not
absent
in WinXP, just hidden.

Thanks for the help.

Davidk

This is an interesting problem. I also had the non-recognition situation for
a long time. I made a work around by turning off the external drive (I have
two hooked up) when rebooting either hot or cold I have no trouble booting.
Then I turn on the external drive or drives when necessary and they become
automatically recognized by the system.

My feeling is that XP was never configured for this kind of service. I'm
hoping that windows 7 will have solved the problem for good.

Regards,

 

[Chris de H]

This is an interesting problem. I also had the non-recognition situation for
a long time. I made a work around by turning off the external drive (I have
two hooked up) when rebooting either hot or cold I have no trouble booting.
Then I turn on the external drive or drives when necessary and they become
automatically recognized by the system.

My feeling is that XP was never configured for this kind of service. I'm
hoping that windows 7 will have solved the problem for good.

Regards,

 

[Chris de H]

Dear all,
I'm a nitwit with all the technical stuff you're writing here.
Can anyone tell me what to do, in lay terms, to get my Imation Apollo 250GB
HDD recognised by my home desktop computer? It's running on Windows XP. The
blue light is on, but the HDD doesn't exist, according to my computer.
There's no sound when I connect it, it's not in lists where I can change the
letter, etc etc.
It's working fine on laptops and my PC at work.
Thanks for your help!
Chris

 

[Michael W. Ryder]

msnews.microsoft.com wrote:

This is an interesting problem. I also had the non-recognition situation for
a long time. I made a work around by turning off the external drive (I have
two hooked up) when rebooting either hot or cold I have no trouble booting.
Then I turn on the external drive or drives when necessary and they become
automatically recognized by the system.

My feeling is that XP was never configured for this kind of service. I'm
hoping that windows 7 will have solved the problem for good.

I don't think the problem is with XP but with the hardware. The reason
I state this is that I have similar problems with a Seagate FreeAgent
except that the computer will not POST with the drive connected.
Disconnecting the drive will allow the computer to start booting and I
can then connect the drive and everything works. Maybe something in the
BIOS on some computers is conflicting with the USB drives and either the
computer ignores the drive or will not boot at all. I haven't tried a
BIOS update on my computer yet but that is the next step.