XP failing to install

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me

This really is about hardware.

6 months ago my son in London tried to re-install XP. He couldn't get
the HD to format. The system hung part way through.

Assuming it to be the HD he bought a new 160Gb HD but got the same
result. The next thing was to check the memory by taking out one of
the two chips in turn. Same result.

That led to a whole new mobo. Same result. So he built a new machine.

Now he has a buyer for the old machine and he is trying again. He
replaced the power supply. Same result.

The prospect is that it needs a new CPU, but I have spoken to a mate
who had the same problem and he solved it this way: Use a W98 startup
disk and fdisk the HD in FAT32. Install XP. Convert to NTFS. This
worked.

Has anybody any similar experience?

Colin
 
When it's finished I
This really is about hardware.

6 months ago my son in London tried to re-install XP. He couldn't get
the HD to format. The system hung part way through.

Assuming it to be the HD he bought a new 160Gb HD but got the same
result. The next thing was to check the memory by taking out one of
the two chips in turn. Same result.

That led to a whole new mobo. Same result. So he built a new machine.

Now he has a buyer for the old machine and he is trying again. He
replaced the power supply. Same result.

The prospect is that it needs a new CPU, but I have spoken to a mate
who had the same problem and he solved it this way: Use a W98 startup
disk and fdisk the HD in FAT32. Install XP. Convert to NTFS. This
worked.

Has anybody any similar experience?

Colin
Click to expand...
Yes, you can have corrupted partition tables, a virus in the boot sector
among other things.

Some computers with hard drives that were initially setup using an NT
install disk and then upgraded to XP has partitions that the XP install disk
does not like.

That is why I normally use a copy of Darik's Boot and Nuke "DBAN" program on
machines prior to doing a fresh install of XP. The program is free and does
a great job. When it's finished there is no chance of a hidden virus or
other computer caused problems still on the drive. The link to the author's
web site is http://dban.sourceforge.net/

I power down the computer, insert the DBAN boot the disk, floppy or CD
depending on what the machine will take, and let then pick how I want the
disk(s) erased from the menu. The program then goes out and totally erases
EVERY drive it finds connected to the motherboard.

I power down the computer and then replace the DBAN disk with the install
disk and power on the machine.

With nothing left on the drives, hidden or otherwise, the XP install program
will have to partition and format the drive(s) and then continue on with the
install, just like a factory fresh install.

If the DBAN (which does not use the Windows OS) can not "see" the drive it
then there is some physical problem still to be discovered, like a bad
cable, power supply, interface cards, motherboard CMOS values, or some other
undiscovered problems.
 
What kind of condition is the XP CD itself?

What happens if he tries to install Win 98 (if the machine will take it)?
 
This really is about hardware.

6 months ago my son in London tried to re-install XP. He couldn't get
the HD to format. The system hung part way through.

Assuming it to be the HD he bought a new 160Gb HD but got the same
result. The next thing was to check the memory by taking out one of
the two chips in turn. Same result.

That led to a whole new mobo. Same result. So he built a new machine.

Now he has a buyer for the old machine and he is trying again. He
replaced the power supply. Same result.

The prospect is that it needs a new CPU, but I have spoken to a mate
who had the same problem and he solved it this way: Use a W98 startup
disk and fdisk the HD in FAT32. Install XP. Convert to NTFS. This
worked.

Has anybody any similar experience?
Click to expand...

No it should not need a new CPU. It seems most likely that
either the drive is jumpered wrong, or the bios HDD
detection is wrong (either by manual setting or a bios
limitation or bug).

You failed to provide specific details in your post, for
example, there's little point in telling us "whole new mobo"
if you don't tell us what they both are, whether same or
different, same or different bios version if same board, and
whether user(s) adjusted bios. The point here is that most
systems do not have this problem, so we cannot use generic
information, we have to have the minute specifics to find
how the parts and configuration is different.

Not knowing the above, there's no point in drifting down a
tangent, of which seems most likely. Just check the drives
and jumpers, and if the motherboards are older and do not
support drives over 128GB, try a smaller drive or a PCI IDE
controller card.
 
When it's finished I

Yes, you can have corrupted partition tables, a virus in the boot sector
among other things.

Some computers with hard drives that were initially setup using an NT
install disk and then upgraded to XP has partitions that the XP install disk
does not like.

That is why I normally use a copy of Darik's Boot and Nuke "DBAN" program on
machines prior to doing a fresh install of XP. The program is free and does
a great job. When it's finished there is no chance of a hidden virus or
other computer caused problems still on the drive. The link to the author's
web site is http://dban.sourceforge.net/

I power down the computer, insert the DBAN boot the disk, floppy or CD
depending on what the machine will take, and let then pick how I want the
disk(s) erased from the menu. The program then goes out and totally erases
EVERY drive it finds connected to the motherboard.

I power down the computer and then replace the DBAN disk with the install
disk and power on the machine.

With nothing left on the drives, hidden or otherwise, the XP install program
will have to partition and format the drive(s) and then continue on with the
install, just like a factory fresh install.

If the DBAN (which does not use the Windows OS) can not "see" the drive it
then there is some physical problem still to be discovered, like a bad
cable, power supply, interface cards, motherboard CMOS values, or some other
undiscovered problems.
Click to expand...

This post seems very encouraging. I shall forward it to my son who
lives 200 miles away.

Many thanks.

Colin
 
What kind of condition is the XP CD itself?

What happens if he tries to install Win 98 (if the machine will take it)?
Click to expand...


The XP CD was good. In fact, he bought two more copies in his
attempts to solve the problem. More money than sense. They all hung.

Colin
 
No it should not need a new CPU. It seems most likely that
either the drive is jumpered wrong, or the bios HDD
detection is wrong (either by manual setting or a bios
limitation or bug).
Click to expand...

Agreed. This was out first guess. This is why I described the mobo as
a "whole new mobo", meaning that it contained a fresh and modern BIOS.
The hard drive had worked well in the PC (Mesh) for more than a year.
You failed to provide specific details in your post, for
example, there's little point in telling us "whole new mobo"
if you don't tell us what they both are, whether same or
different, same or different bios version if same board, and
whether user(s) adjusted bios. The point here is that most
systems do not have this problem, so we cannot use generic
information, we have to have the minute specifics to find
how the parts and configuration is different.
Click to expand...
Since the first HDD had worked well with the jumper settings and the
new one was clean but presented the same symptom it argues that the
HDD was not to blame and whatever the brand of mobo a top brand should
be immaculate when first fitted. If the old mobo and BIOS are removed
and also the HDD how could any virus or similar transfer to the new
HDD and mobo and PSU and memory regardless of brand.

The best I can do from my memory is say that the code was something
like A7802 and was popular in Meshes and the new one was told to me as
K7N2D2. I hope that is accurate enough.
Not knowing the above, there's no point in drifting down a
tangent, of which seems most likely. Just check the drives
and jumpers, and if the motherboards are older and do not
support drives over 128GB, try a smaller drive or a PCI IDE
controller card.
Click to expand...

This I could help with. I'm visiting at Xmas and I have a few smaller
drives hanging around the place. A new controller card might have
suited before he bought the new mobo but I wonder what purpose it
would serve in the presence of a new mobo that is presumably ok.
Surely not two duff bits of equipment???

The large HDD's do pose a bit of difficulty when formatting but I have
managed many times with XP CD's. I usually have hallf a dozen
partitions which solves the problem.

Thank you for trying to help.

Colin
 
Since the first HDD had worked well with the jumper settings and the
new one was clean but presented the same symptom it argues that the
HDD was not to blame and whatever the brand of mobo a top brand should
be immaculate when first fitted. If the old mobo and BIOS are removed
and also the HDD how could any virus or similar transfer to the new
HDD and mobo and PSU and memory regardless of brand.
Click to expand...

I never suggested it was a virus.

Maybe you'll get lucky and it was the CPU- since most of
the other parts have been replaced by now. I'd sooner
suspect user error or one of the things I'd mentioned. If
one simply assumes each part in turn is fine, like the
motherboard or jumpers, problems are far too easily
overlooked. My only suggestion is to backtrack and actually
check, not make presumptions which are prone to error due to
variables you or I don't see. It would be far easier for
someone having the system in front of them to troubleshoot
this.
 
When it's finished I

Yes, you can have corrupted partition tables, a virus in the boot sector
among other things.

Some computers with hard drives that were initially setup using an NT
install disk and then upgraded to XP has partitions that the XP install disk
does not like.

That is why I normally use a copy of Darik's Boot and Nuke "DBAN" program on
machines prior to doing a fresh install of XP. The program is free and does
a great job. When it's finished there is no chance of a hidden virus or
other computer caused problems still on the drive. The link to the author's
web site is http://dban.sourceforge.net/

I power down the computer, insert the DBAN boot the disk, floppy or CD
depending on what the machine will take, and let then pick how I want the
disk(s) erased from the menu. The program then goes out and totally erases
EVERY drive it finds connected to the motherboard.

I power down the computer and then replace the DBAN disk with the install
disk and power on the machine.

With nothing left on the drives, hidden or otherwise, the XP install program
will have to partition and format the drive(s) and then continue on with the
install, just like a factory fresh install.

If the DBAN (which does not use the Windows OS) can not "see" the drive it
then there is some physical problem still to be discovered, like a bad
cable, power supply, interface cards, motherboard CMOS values, or some other
undiscovered problems.
Click to expand...
The situation tonight is that he has downloaded the prog and run it.
It is extremely slow. After 35 mins only 1.52% done so more than 30
hours for the whole disk. He has aborted it and is about to try the
W98SE bootup disk that he downloaded. If he can format the HHD then he
might be able to install XP. He's doing the formating on the new
computer that he built in the summer.

Once formatted he'll try to do the job in the usual manner in the old
case with the old CPU.

Colin
 
The situation tonight is that he has downloaded the prog and run it.
It is extremely slow. After 35 mins only 1.52% done so more than 30
hours for the whole disk. He has aborted it and is about to try the
W98SE bootup disk that he downloaded. If he can format the HHD then he
might be able to install XP. He's doing the formating on the new
computer that he built in the summer.

Once formatted he'll try to do the job in the usual manner in the old
case with the old CPU.
Click to expand...


DBAN may do an entirely acceptible job, but it is completely
unnecessary if the HDD manufacturer's utilities see the
drive... and this is the standard procedure, that when there
is question about whether a drive is set up, detected
properly by a motherboard and/or working properly, that the
HDD manufacturer's diagnostics floppy or CD is ran.

By booting from it, you have eliminated any (unlikely)
issues of virus on the hard drive, as that (viral) code was
never ran. The whole purpose of the diagnostics is exactly
this kind of situation, but further, many of them (all now?)
also provide the means to wipe the drive 100% and test it.

However, there is no need to wait hours while any program
erases the entire disk, whatever random (or even malicous)
data might reside on some part is of no consequence once the
drive has a new MBR written and proper partitioning.

Keep in mind that the goal should not be to merely "find
some way to partition and format through alternate methods",
because if there are problems accessing the drive or
supporting it's capacity, there are further possible
performance or data integrity issues that will persist. The
goal should be to resolve the problem to the extent that
Windows setup routine can work with this drive, not an
end-run towards having it formatted and converted to NTFS
via Win98... unless you simply wanted a FAT32 partition
larger than 32GB, in which case Win98 is acceptible merely
because XP has removed the ability to do it.
 
DBAN may do an entirely acceptible job, but it is completely
unnecessary if the HDD manufacturer's utilities see the
drive... and this is the standard procedure, that when there
is question about whether a drive is set up, detected
properly by a motherboard and/or working properly, that the
HDD manufacturer's diagnostics floppy or CD is ran.

By booting from it, you have eliminated any (unlikely)
issues of virus on the hard drive, as that (viral) code was
never ran. The whole purpose of the diagnostics is exactly
this kind of situation, but further, many of them (all now?)
also provide the means to wipe the drive 100% and test it.

However, there is no need to wait hours while any program
erases the entire disk, whatever random (or even malicous)
data might reside on some part is of no consequence once the
drive has a new MBR written and proper partitioning.

Keep in mind that the goal should not be to merely "find
some way to partition and format through alternate methods",
because if there are problems accessing the drive or
supporting it's capacity, there are further possible
performance or data integrity issues that will persist. The
goal should be to resolve the problem to the extent that
Windows setup routine can work with this drive, not an
end-run towards having it formatted and converted to NTFS
via Win98... unless you simply wanted a FAT32 partition
larger than 32GB, in which case Win98 is acceptible merely
because XP has removed the ability to do it.
Click to expand...

Coincidentally, all the drives that my son and I possess are Maxtor.
When I got my first maxtor I downloaded Maxblast3.exe from the maxtor
web site. It worked perfectly for me and I was much impressed by the
GUI. Enough said.

However, when my son was formatting his I emailed the file to him and
it didn't work (he said). That was when he started looking for a W98SE
startup disk. It is uncanny the way the drives just will not take a
format.

A question that he has put to me rather bitterly is: "What operation
comes into play when a CPU is communicating with a HHD during
formatting?" "Why will mine not do it?

Colin
 
The situation tonight is that he has downloaded the prog and run it.
It is extremely slow. After 35 mins only 1.52% done so more than 30
hours for the whole disk. He has aborted it and is about to try the
W98SE bootup disk that he downloaded. If he can format the HHD then he
might be able to install XP. He's doing the formating on the new
computer that he built in the summer.
Click to expand...

Download the hard drive manufacturers disk utilities... Do a ZERO disk. That
will remove any partition information from the drive. During the install you
should be able to create a partition and format it as NTFS. If it fails at
that point you have one of the following...

- Bad drive
- Bad IDE cable
- Bad power supply
- Bad mainboard

Normally, zeroing the whole drive isn't necessary, and you can do a fast
NTFS format during install... but if you want to be certain zero the drive
completely and don't choose the fast format during install.
 
Coincidentally, all the drives that my son and I possess are Maxtor.
When I got my first maxtor I downloaded Maxblast3.exe from the maxtor
web site. It worked perfectly for me and I was much impressed by the
GUI. Enough said.

However, when my son was formatting his I emailed the file to him and
it didn't work (he said).
Click to expand...

While it's possible none of the Maxblasts would work, it
would be prudent to use the newer version available from
their website.
That was when he started looking for a W98SE
startup disk. It is uncanny the way the drives just will not take a
format.
Click to expand...

It might be useful to note exactly when the process stops,
and whether it always stops at same point every time per
same drive, or at a similar capacity (as % of total drive
capacity) on both drives.

A question that he has put to me rather bitterly is: "What operation
comes into play when a CPU is communicating with a HHD during
formatting?" "Why will mine not do it?
Click to expand...

I still don't think it's the CPU at all... Unless the
heatsink isn't installed properly or something along these
lines causing overheating like a fan failure.

You might check the memory with Memtest86+, and if the
newest Maxblast won't work on that system, try the drive in
another system that Maxblast is compatible with.... not try
it as-in, format and install, just running Maxblast to check
the drive.

Also it would be good to reduce variables by leaving drive
jumpered as Master and alone on that IDE channel.
 
While it's possible none of the Maxblasts would work, it
would be prudent to use the newer version available from
their website.
OK


It might be useful to note exactly when the process stops,
and whether it always stops at same point every time per
same drive, or at a similar capacity (as % of total drive
capacity) on both drives.
Click to expand...

I don't think that it was exactly the same place for my son.
I still don't think it's the CPU at all... Unless the
heatsink isn't installed properly or something along these
lines causing overheating like a fan failure.
Click to expand...
I agree.
You might check the memory with Memtest86+, and if the
newest Maxblast won't work on that system, try the drive in
another system that Maxblast is compatible with.... not try
it as-in, format and install, just running Maxblast to check
the drive.
Click to expand...

I don't have Memtest86+. He tested it by removing each of the two
wafers in turn. The last I heard tonight he was using his new machine
to try to format the drive, having first disconnected the existing
drive.

Many thanks.

Colin
 
Download the hard drive manufacturers disk utilities... Do a ZERO disk. That
will remove any partition information from the drive. During the install you
should be able to create a partition and format it as NTFS. If it fails at
that point you have one of the following...

- Bad drive
- Bad IDE cable
- Bad power supply
- Bad mainboard

Normally, zeroing the whole drive isn't necessary, and you can do a fast
NTFS format during install... but if you want to be certain zero the drive
completely and don't choose the fast format during install.
Click to expand...
New HDD
New cable
New PSU
New Mainboard.

It could have been bad install CD but he bought a new one. Same
thing. I'll be down there on Friday. I expect I'll get it going.

Many thanks.

Colin
 
You might check the memory with Memtest86+, and if the
newest Maxblast won't work on that system, try the drive in
another system that Maxblast is compatible with.... not try
it as-in, format and install, just running Maxblast to check
the drive.

Also it would be good to reduce variables by leaving drive
jumpered as Master and alone on that IDE channel.
Click to expand...

This reminds me of a very similar problem... It turns out that I had my CD
Rom drive set as master. I installed a drive into my system for
formatting/installing without checking, assuming that the drive was slave.
With both being set to master I couldn't get anything to reliably
format/install to the drive.

Same applies if you have anything set to Cable Select (C/S)
 
I never suggested it was a virus.

Maybe you'll get lucky and it was the CPU- since most of
the other parts have been replaced by now. I'd sooner
suspect user error or one of the things I'd mentioned. If
one simply assumes each part in turn is fine, like the
motherboard or jumpers, problems are far too easily
overlooked. My only suggestion is to backtrack and actually
check, not make presumptions which are prone to error due to
variables you or I don't see. It would be far easier for
someone having the system in front of them to troubleshoot
this.
Click to expand...


Number one son has just phoned to say that he left DBAN running all
night and it finished up having cleaned the HDD. He then formatted it
with his W(*SE bootup disk.

Then he returned the HDD to the old machine from which it was taken.
He started the install CD and it said that it would have to modify the
boot sector. Then it said "The partition is either too full, damaged,
not formatted, or formatted with an incompatible file system". It went
on to say some more but that's where it failed. It was unable to
create C:\windows.

E&OE

He's presently started again. The CD found the 156 Gb hard drive and
wanted to install. Something must have gone wrong because he ran it
again and reached the point where you can go back and choose another
partition. He went back and deleted the 156Gb partition and has
created a small one - 20Gb I think. He hasn't phoned back.

Colin
 
I never suggested it was a virus.

Maybe you'll get lucky and it was the CPU- since most of
the other parts have been replaced by now. I'd sooner
suspect user error or one of the things I'd mentioned. If
one simply assumes each part in turn is fine, like the
motherboard or jumpers, problems are far too easily
overlooked. My only suggestion is to backtrack and actually
check, not make presumptions which are prone to error due to
variables you or I don't see. It would be far easier for
someone having the system in front of them to troubleshoot
this.
Click to expand...


This is the latest:

He got part way through installing the files when it baulked at
copying OEMBIOS.BIN. Then it stopped . He's putting it into plastic
bags at the moment.

Colin
 
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