'Xbox 2 Development Secrets Revealed'

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http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/5962/Xbox-2-Development-Secrets-

_______________________________________________________________________________
Xbox 2 Development Secrets Revealed
By: César A. Berardini - "Cesar"
May. 19th, 2004 05:42 pm


J Allard had the following words before introducing the latest XNA
advancements at the Microsoft Pre-E3 press briefing held in Los
Angeles last week: "Now, every time I talk, people ask me why I don't
say a little bit more about hardware. It's always software, software,
software, software. So tonight you guys win. Let's talk about
hardware."

And to the disappointment of the crowd expecting Xbox 2 related
information, the Saleen S7 featured in the second Crash demo made by
Pseudo Interactive was unveiled. It is not that the XNA demos aren't
impressive, but it isn't exactly the Xbox 2 hardware specs everyone
was anticipating. In this first interview, J Allard confirmed to
Computer and Videogames (CVG) that although the Xbox 2 hardware is
"locked down", Microsoft has decided not to talk about next generation
hardware this year.

Luckily, CVG caught J Allard the morning after the Microsoft briefing
in an effusive moment, in which the Corporate Vice President and Chief
XNA Architect revealed some information about the Xbox 2 development.

"There's some stuff that's just knocked my socks off," stated Allard.
"The thing we're looking at in the next generation is just an
unbelievable amount of raw computing power - the architecture will be
much more specialized."

Showing his excitement, Allard continued: "Right now you have your
audio chip and you graphics chip and your CPU, and you're constantly
trying to figure out the balances. In the next generation we're going
to have so much silicon, so much raw computing horsepower - developers
are going to be able to use this in interesting and exciting ways."

By now it was too late for Allard to stop talking and he continued to
reveal additional details to CVG: "I've seen demos of terrain and
worlds, with no textures in them whatsoever and no geometry - it's
just a program that's creating a scene for you," and then Allard had
to explain what procedural synthesis is all about:

"Art is the highest cost component of game development, and so much of
the art is really repetitive and really intensive, and then doesn't
come out to be very realistic. You know, bricks in a wall - very
repeated textures."

"Let's go write the brick program and run the brick program to make a
room full of bricks, lose the art expense and gain a more realistic
looking room, because now we can focus on having the bricks there in a
really realistic way. I get really excited about that kind of stuff."

"There are a lot of new techniques," Allard continued. "Like what
shaders have done for 3D, there are a lot of new next-generation
techniques for procedural synthesis that's really going to change how
game construction is done, but also what the environment looks like so
it feels a lot less 'cookie cutter'."

Sounds cool, eh? Coincidently, the latest issue of MIT's magazine,
Technology Review, has an article on Microsoft Research Asia's Beijing
lab. A division launched late last year that works on the Xbox and
Longhorn (next version of Windows) is the focus of the article with
some juicy quotes from experts around the world:

"Microsoft Research is by far the biggest contributor to graphics in
the corporate world. It's a powerhouse," says Paul Debevec, a graphics
expert at the University of Southern California's Institute for
Creative Technologies. "The Beijing lab, in particular, has achieved
"some amazing results," he adds. "It's not just, ‘How can we make a
better Xbox?'"

Then the article continues: "But in fact, a better Xbox is ultimately
part of the lab's mission. Reminders that this is a business, not a
researcher's playground, are never far away. In an adjoining hallway,
a large corner room has its windows plastered over with opaque sheets
of paper. The sign on the locked door reads, "Xbox: Confidential."
Baining Guo, a former Intel researcher and now Microsoft Research
Asia's graphics research manager, isn't allowed to talk about what's
going on inside. "Some of our best people work in there," is all he'll
say."

Could this be the place where the latest developments in "procedural
synthesis" are being conducted? We'll have to wait a few months to
find out the truth, but the excitement J Allard expresses while
talking about next generation technology is easily contagious when you
read information such as this.

For the entire Beijing lab article, click here. Stay tuned; we'll have
much more on the next wave of gaming technology as it becomes
available.
_______________________________________________________________________________


^
very interesting read IMO. Xbox 2 is sounding much better than Xbox
for its time. no more PC-derived architecture, with Intel out of the
picture. Xbox 2 will be getting a custom ATI graphics processor and
several IBM PowerPC or Power4/5 CPUs on one die. (look at Allard's
comments on raw computing power). Plus, probably, very fast flash
memory for storage, which will also probably better facilitate
streaming data compared to a HDD. Xbox 2 is shaping up to be the most
reliable nextgen console as far as power, features, image quality,
ease of development, etc. I'm not as confident about PS3 or
Nintendo's next system.
 
Xbox 2 is shaping up to be the most
reliable nextgen console as far as power, features, image quality,
ease of development, etc. I'm not as confident about PS3 or
Nintendo's next system.

Yeah ofcourse cos you have already seen everything all the sytems have
to offer and know
how programming on them will be!
 
R420 said:
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/5962/Xbox-2-Development-Secrets-

____________________________________________________________________________
___
Xbox 2 Development Secrets Revealed
By: César A. Berardini - "Cesar"
May. 19th, 2004 05:42 pm


J Allard had the following words before introducing the latest XNA
advancements at the Microsoft Pre-E3 press briefing held in Los
Angeles last week: "Now, every time I talk, people ask me why I don't
say a little bit more about hardware. It's always software, software,
software, software. So tonight you guys win. Let's talk about
hardware."

Let's start with a mouse, keyboard and native PC monitor support (in
addition to video-out).
 
very interesting read IMO. Xbox 2 is sounding much better than Xbox
for its time. no more PC-derived architecture, with Intel out of the
picture. Xbox 2 will be getting a custom ATI graphics processor and
several IBM PowerPC or Power4/5 CPUs on one die. (look at Allard's
comments on raw computing power). Plus, probably, very fast flash
memory for storage, which will also probably better facilitate
streaming data compared to a HDD. Xbox 2 is shaping up to be the most
reliable nextgen console as far as power, features, image quality,
ease of development, etc. I'm not as confident about PS3 or
Nintendo's next system.

PC-derived architecture, Intel out of the picture? Oh please. Whoever said
anything about PowerPC?

Very fast flash for storage? Dream on to have flash memory near the speed
of a HDD would be stupidly expensive, you're not going to beat a HDD with
flash, it's less reliable, slower need I go on?

Allard would say it's going to have loads of raw horse power. I mean he's
not going to say, we're so focused on software now because we're trying to
hide the fact we're trying to majorly cut losses on hardware.

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
http://www.smirnov.demon.co.uk/
http://www.doom3portal.com/ A Doom 3 fansite.
http://windows.dasmirnov.net/ Windows XP Resource Site.

*Replace nospam with smirnov to reply by e-mail*
 
What secrets? Consoles technology always takes 2 steps backwards from PC
Technology.

Doubt any secrets....
 
By a PC you loser...

Tim said:
____________________________________________________________________________

Let's start with a mouse, keyboard and native PC monitor support (in
addition to video-out).
 
Tim said:
____________________________________________________________________________

Let's start with a mouse, keyboard and native PC monitor support (in
addition to video-out).

Get this then:

http://www.apexdigitalinc.com/proddetail.asp?category=ApeXtreme&subcat=&linenumber=76&c=4

Or some fine products here:

http://www.alienware.com
http://www.dell.com
http://www.hp.com
http://www.gateway.com

Who needs a keyboard in a living room (or worst: 4 keyboards for multiplayer
games)?
 
Michel Thiffault said:
Who needs a keyboard in a living room (or worst: 4 keyboards for multiplayer
games)?

In some games, the one who wants to win.

Consoles suck compared to PCs for controller options, they should expand
their diversity. For some games nothing beats a mouse and keyboard,
especially FPS titles. MS should give its customers the *option* of using
controls best suited for the game. Obviously anyone reading this already
has a keyboard, mouse and monitor (most of them, anyway) So why not give
them the option of using them? How much could that cost MS compared to the
R&D of new graphics technology? And with a KVM switch you could integrate it
right into your PC rig, giving you the advantages of both. For those who
prefer the XBox on the living room TV, using a regular controller, could do
that too.
 
Tim said:
In some games, the one who wants to win.

Consoles suck compared to PCs for controller options, they should
expand their diversity. For some games nothing beats a mouse and
keyboard, especially FPS titles. MS should give its customers the
*option* of using controls best suited for the game. Obviously
anyone reading this already has a keyboard, mouse and monitor (most
of them, anyway) So why not give them the option of using them? How
much could that cost MS compared to the R&D of new graphics
technology? And with a KVM switch you could integrate it right into
your PC rig, giving you the advantages of both. For those who
prefer the XBox on the living room TV, using a regular controller,
could do that too.

Simple. If we're all using the same controllers we're all equal on XBOX
Live.
 
Simple. If we're all using the same controllers we're all equal on XBOX

Agreed... these PC fanboys can't seem to get that fact through their skulls!
If you want to play PC games, play on a PC... not a console!
 
Simple. If we're all using the same controllers we're all equal on XBOX
Live.

Yes, equally bad ;-) Regardless, I'm sure MS could offer controller
filtering for XBox Live, especially since it will be an all-new console
anyway. And it's still a very useful option for single player games at a
very nominal cost. It would also draw more customers to the platform.

BTW, how equal will things be when you have two generations of consoles
playing on XBox Live? I imagine the new one will have a frame rate
advantage, if nothing else.
 
Agreed... these PC fanboys can't seem to get that fact through their skulls!
If you want to play PC games, play on a PC... not a console!

Erm, this is pointlessly crossposted to PC newsgroups, we do play
games on PC's!
 
Jer said:
Agreed... these PC fanboys can't seem to get that fact through their skulls!
If you want to play PC games, play on a PC... not a console!

I agree too. But so many XBox games are PC games anyway. Even just for
single player, having a keyboard/mouse available would greatly improve their
playability on the XBox.
 
Tim said:
I agree too. But so many XBox games are PC games anyway. Even just
for single player, having a keyboard/mouse available would greatly
improve their playability on the XBox.

Then you should really consider the upcoming console from Apex. Il will buy
it ASAP myself.
 
Then you should really consider the upcoming console from Apex. Il will buy
it ASAP myself.

Very interesting product, a PC game console (although I was just suggesting
more controller/video options for the new XBox.). Apparently your PC game
choices are restricted to those that have "scripts" written for them by a
separate company (DISCover). So its success is probably up to them.(that
and the price) - worth checking out though.

Here's some more info about it ...

http://www.discoverconsole.com/faq_general.htm
 
PC-derived architecture, Intel out of the picture? Oh please. Whoever said
anything about PowerPC?

Intel are out the picture. IBM are developing the CPU with MS.
Everyone is expecting a Power PC type achitecture. You get alot of
bang per buck with Power PC.
Very fast flash for storage? Dream on to have flash memory near the speed
of a HDD would be stupidly expensive, you're not going to beat a HDD with
flash, it's less reliable, slower need I go on?

Its going to have some sort of flash storage, thats why MS signed a
deal with one of the flash producers recently. It could of course be
that the machine simply has something liek 64 or 128Mb memory carts.
But they have been wanting to get rid of the HDD. Stupid really as
they tout the excuse that not many games utilise it. The reality is
that the HDD is such a new idea for a console that the developers are
struggling to design games that utilise the HDD. Couple that with not
*that* many games on live still that utilise the HDD alot for
downloads.
Allard would say it's going to have loads of raw horse power. I mean he's
not going to say, we're so focused on software now because we're trying to
hide the fact we're trying to majorly cut losses on hardware.

Hence the real reason to drop the HDD. You can drop that & then have
large memory carts.

Personally I think the next generation is the one that is going to
utilise the hard drive to get the data streaming fast enough for the
machine to not end up too IO bound.
 
Tim said:
Very interesting product, a PC game console (although I was just
suggesting more controller/video options for the new XBox.).
Apparently your PC game choices are restricted to those that have
"scripts" written for them by a separate company (DISCover). So its
success is probably up to them.(that and the price) - worth checking
out though.

Here's some more info about it ...

http://www.discoverconsole.com/faq_general.htm

There was an interview on ZDNet a few days ago. They they already have
thousands of scripts available for most games. I'm not too worried. And
Microsoft must be happy: the Apex console uses Windows XP Embedded.
AlienWare is coming up with another console but based on Windows XP AND the
Discover technology (even better). Must be a lot more expensive though
(AlienWare...)
 
Intel are out the picture. IBM are developing the CPU with MS.
Everyone is expecting a Power PC type achitecture. You get alot of
bang per buck with Power PC.

Intel standards will be around. Power PC is yet to be seen - it certainly
doesn't deliver anywhere near the "bang per buck" that x86 does. The whole
Power PC business seems to be wishful thinking by Apple users. AMD64
please.
Its going to have some sort of flash storage, thats why MS signed a
deal with one of the flash producers recently. It could of course be
that the machine simply has something liek 64 or 128Mb memory carts.

128Mb ? What's the ****ing point then? You'll need dozens of the things.

Dropping HDD - big mistake. I'd rather pay an extra £100 for the hardware
then have to put up with shitty flash memory.

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
http://www.pesportal.com/ A Pro Evolution Soccer fansite.
http://www.doom3portal.com/ A Doom 3 fansite.
http://windows.dasmirnov.net/ Windows XP Resource Site.

*Replace nospam with smirnov to reply by e-mail*
 
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