Would it be better to get single CPU archtecture or multi core?

  • Thread starter Thread starter nickodemos
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nickodemos

Hello all.

My question revolves around money. In other words would it be
better to spend $750-1000 for a rig now or just $300-500?

If I can I would like the low end. Would it be possible to
build a fast gaming rig with outdated components? Something for the
next few years?

Just looking at the core features. IE PS,CPU,RAM,GPU

Or should I just upgrade my GPU?

I fried my ATI 9500 and had to downgrade to a stock Nvidia
Geforce 420 so I now can't play my games.

Does it make sense to upgrade a AGP graphics card and stretch out till
later or drop a load?

My specs now are

Dell Dimension 4550
WIN_XP_XP3
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.66GHz (Northwood)
768 RAM
Dual monitor
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440 with AGP8X
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 420

All in all it still runs smooth except for the GPU. But it is getting
long in the tooth.

Any input would be nice.

NICKODEMOS
 

Well so much for real budget machine.
Shit, man.

Was hoping tos ave a few $$.
A multiple core CPU is an excellent value upgrade.

Thought so. But since I myself have not touched a multi core machine I
have never felt the difference.
Posting XNoArchive when asking for technical help is a disservice to
those looking for answers later.

Sorry about that. Been sometime since I played with newsgroups. Still
using the persona from binary download days.

Nickodemos

PS
OK so can you guys at least give me a heads up on a good MB? Something
that might not be bleeding edge but without the pitfalls of hidden
tech speak?
 
nickodemos said:
If I can I would like the low end. Would it be possible to
build a fast gaming rig with outdated components? Something for
the next few years?
No.

Does it make sense to upgrade a AGP graphics card and stretch out
till later or drop a load?

Shit, man.
My specs now are

Dell Dimension 4550
WIN_XP_XP3
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.66GHz (Northwood)
768 RAM
Dual monitor
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440 with AGP8X
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 420

All in all it still runs smooth except for the GPU. But it is
getting long in the tooth.

Any input would be nice.

A multiple core CPU is an excellent value upgrade.

Posting XNoArchive when asking for technical help is a disservice to
those looking for answers later.
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "nickodemos" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: Would it be better to get single CPU archtecture or multi core?

OK so can you guys at least give me a heads up on a good MB? Something
that might not be bleeding edge but without the pitfalls of hidden
tech speak?

Personally I think you need more than just a MB... My suggestions are:

Motherboard:
Gigabyte or Asus, G31, P35 or P45 chipset, Socket 775. I suggest these
chipsets as they are good enough for what you want, but you aren't going to
pay a premium price for a decent MB. These are just examples... I am sure
there are better MBs out there.
Asus P5K Pro... $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131275R
Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L... $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128347

Memory:
768Mb just won't cut it anymore. I suggest 2 x 2Gb of 800 or 1066MHz
DDR2. Good performance but not overpriced.
OCS Reaper 2 x 2GB DDR2... $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227289

CPU:
A mid level Intel Core2Duo. I personally prefer the Quad cores, but I do
a lot of heavy processing as well as gaming so it helps me.
Intel E8400... $165
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037

Graphics card.
To be honest there isn't much difference overall between nVidia cards
and ATI ones, but I personally like the current ATI mid-ranged boards. I
would suggest something like an ATI HD4850. If you want more grunt look at
the HD4870, or if you really like nVidia, the GTX260.
Sapphire HD4850, 512Mb... $160
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102770

If you took my examples that would be an upgrade of less than $500 and
you'll have effectively a whole new machine. I did a similar thing a year or
two back. Upgraded an old Athlon PC into a decent Core2Duo and saved a LOT
of money to boot.

Just a final thought... You may need to upgrade your PSU too, new MBs and
video cards need extra power plugs your old Dell may not have.

One issue you should be aware of though... If your old P4 is a single core
(and I think it is) you will need to reinstall your operating system to take
advantage of any multicore CPU. There are websites out there that say you
can fiddle WinXP from singlecore into multicore, but you can't!

Rarius

?
 
nickodemos said:
Hello all.

My question revolves around money. In other words would it be
better to spend $750-1000 for a rig now or just $300-500?

There is a third option. You can spend a little over $500 bucks, total
price delivered, for a very capable (as is, but also upgradable) gaming
system.
If I can I would like the low end. Would it be possible to
build a fast gaming rig with outdated components? Something for the
next few years?

Just looking at the core features. IE PS,CPU,RAM,GPU

Or should I just upgrade my GPU?

I fried my ATI 9500 and had to downgrade to a stock Nvidia
Geforce 420 so I now can't play my games.

Does it make sense to upgrade a AGP graphics card and stretch out till
later or drop a load?

My specs now are

Dell Dimension 4550

If you have a Dell anything, any upgrade will mean:
1) Start from scratch, don't recycle anything (except maybe the disk
drives) OR
2) Buy a complete new Dell

I'd suggest the following from newegg (plus add any case you like):
Note that this will be a little over $500 total (depending on what case you
choose), shipped. And, you can add another video card later if you like.
And you can OC the processor if you like, though I wouldn't suggest
t. -Dave


Qty. Product Description Savings Total Price


GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-DS4 AM2+/AM2 AMD 790X ATX Ultra Durable II AMD
Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813128075
Return Policy: Limited Non-Refundable 30-Day Return Policy
Protect Your Investment (expand for options|hide options)
Service Net Replacement Extended Warranty Plan
The product will be replaced and shipped directly to you at no
charge(more info13-128-075.0.18)

a.. 1 year: $24.99
b.. 2 year: $39.99
-$10.00 Instant

$119.99
$109.99



SAPPHIRE 100265L Radeon HD 4830 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16
HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16814102803
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
Protect Your Investment (expand for options|hide options)
Service Net Replacement Extended Warranty Plan
The product will be replaced and shipped directly to you at no
charge(more info14-102-803.0.18)

a.. 1 year: $14.99
b.. 2 year: $19.99
-$20.00 Instant

$119.99
$99.99



CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS
Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
Item #: N82E16817139005
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
Protect Your Investment (expand for options|hide options)
Service Net Replacement Extended Warranty Plan
The product will be replaced and shipped directly to you at no
charge(more info17-139-005.0.18)

a.. 1 year: $14.99
b.. 2 year: $19.99
-$60.00 Instant

$20.00 Mail-in Rebate
$159.99
$99.99



OCZ Fatal1ty Edition 4GB (2x2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail (The Official Memory of the
Championship Gaming Series) - Retail
Item #: N82E16820227334
Return Policy: Limited Non-Refundable 30-Day Return Policy
-$5.00 Instant

$43.99
$38.99



AMD Phenom 8750 Toliman 2.4GHz Socket AM2+ 95W Triple-Core Black Edition
Processor Model HD875ZWCGHBOX - Retail
Item #: N82E16819103295
Return Policy: Processors (CPUs) Return Policy
Protect Your Investment (expand for options|hide options)
Service Net Replacement Extended Warranty Plan
The product will be replaced and shipped directly to you at no
charge(more info19-103-295.0.18)

a.. 1 year: $24.99
b.. 2 year: $39.99
$119.00
Subtotal: $467.96
 
nickodemos said:
Hello all.

My question revolves around money. In other words would it be
better to spend $750-1000 for a rig now or just $300-500?
Tomshardware.com has just produced a very good article about building a
$650 gaming rig.
 
nickodemos said:
Was hoping tos ave a few $$.


Thought so. But since I myself have not touched a multi core machine I
have never felt the difference.

OK so can you guys at least give me a heads up on a good MB? Something
that might not be bleeding edge but without the pitfalls of hidden
tech speak?

Lots of opinions out there on various brands. I have a pair of gigabyte DS4
boards, and they are nice. The various DS3 boards are cheaper, and differ
mainly in the number of various ports (USB, SATA, Ethernet, etc).

For a "budget" machine with decent performance potential, a P43-DS3L or
P45-DS3L should do fine, paired with a Core 2 Duo E7300 CPU.
 
Wm. said:
Very helpful;


Sorry!

The page you requested couldn't be found
Tom's Hardware

Must have been a temporary problem, as the link works now: I just tried
it.
 
Well so much for real budget machine.





Was hoping tos ave a few $$.


Thought so. But since I myself have not touched a multi core machine I
have never felt the difference.


Sorry about that. Been sometime since I played with newsgroups. Still
using the persona from binary download days.


Nickodemos

PS
OK so can you guys at least give me a heads up on a good MB? Something
that might not be bleeding edge but without the pitfalls of hidden
tech speak?

I ordered a Gigabyte MB for $50, an AMD 2.6Ghz single core for $40, 2G
of better DDR2 for $30, a nicer Antec tower (albeit steel) for $50
with 3 120mm fan provisions. Already have a PS, and know what I'm
doing, so for $200 and spare parts I'll do a spare XP backup box
(without games). Video editing isn't going to be a problem if I
wanted to get back into it. Single cores are getting rarer, to be
sure, but speed also hit the brick wall;- games are all about getting
MBs priced up over $200. Nevermind the sky's the limit video boards.
5Ghz CPUs aren't going to happen, so it's going into symmetric and
concurrent processing -- 4 and 8 core processors. The Gigabyte has its
own video, although no $200 MBs wants to give you PCI slots these
days. Everybody henceforth needs to be extra judicious and not buy
just any 'ol peripherial devices. Computers were always like though,
to do it cheap and good isn't necessarily easy, especially if you've
got an attitude about tech, haven't and don't want to pay dues nor
have a clue how to read between lines. Windows was supposed to solve
much of that, but here you are, all the same -- up against the same
literacy bell-curve everyone encounters when building computers.
Rationalizing against tech-speak won't get you free passes over any
humps.
 
I ordered a Gigabyte MB for $50, an AMD 2.6Ghz single core for $40, 2G
of better DDR2 for $30, a nicer Antec tower (albeit steel) for $50
with 3 120mm fan provisions.

If that is the best you can do on your budget then fair enough. Personally I
think you are WAY behind the curve especially for a gaming PC!

An 2.6GHz single core just isn't going to hack it in todays gaming
environment. You'll get away with games like SWAT4 that werereleased 3 years
ago but even games like Armed Assault which were released early 2007
struggle on a single core. I had to upgrade to a dual core just to play it
and now have a quad-core on which it flies!
Single cores are getting rarer, to be
sure, but speed also hit the brick wall;- games are all about getting
MBs priced up over $200.

Your comment about games forcing motherboards up to $200 is absolutely
rubbish. Firstly, the games designers don't give two hoots how much the
hardware costs, they just try to get the best out of the hardware available.
Secondly, the motherboard is the least important major component of a PC
when it comes to games performance... CPU, GPU, HDD and memory all have much
more influence.
Nevermind the sky's the limit video boards.
5Ghz CPUs aren't going to happen, so it's going into symmetric and
concurrent processing -- 4 and 8 core processors.

Very true. The silicon technology just wont support 5GHz without enormous
cooling efforts. Both AMD and Intel seem to have gone the same general route
into multi-core processors.
The Gigabyte has its
own video, although no $200 MBs wants to give you PCI slots these
days.

If I read this right, you are now saying that the motherboard you've ordered
for your "Gaming machine" has onboard graphics?!?!?

As for no $200 motherboards having PCI slots... Where in God's name have you
been looking. I bought a new MB for my main PC a few months back... and
guess what... It has PCI slots. I have just bought a new MB for my server
and... guess what... it has PCI slots...

I'm not even going to respond to the rest of what you said. It was a jumble
of the bleeding obvious and stuff that made no sense.

Rarius
 
If that is the best you can do on your budget then fair enough. Personally I
think you are WAY behind the curve especially for a gaming PC!

It's all I wanted, not what I could afford. If I'm running a 2.6Ghz
on a single core for one application, which usually is the case, what
benefit will I drive from 3 extra cores sitting idle?
Your comment about games forcing motherboards up to $200 is absolutely
rubbish. Firstly, the games designers don't give two hoots how much the
hardware costs, they just try to get the best out of the hardware available.
Secondly, the motherboard is the least important major component of a PC
when it comes to games performance... CPU, GPU, HDD and memory all have much
more influence.

The predominance and focus of better MBs I'm seeing increasingly
approaching $200 price tiers is situated within $300+ video card
arena. Now, take away all my games, so I can't play, what conceivable
benefit then will an array of two individually priced $500 SLI video
cards, say, provide me? Where it's going to help shore your argument
against me into a multi-core CPU stance, is only to direct the focus
back to programs (again, many games) written to utilize a multiple
core environment;- it almost might hold validity were were there a
backlash of XP loyalists against VISTA, especially among the corporate
scene.
If I read this right, you are now saying that the motherboard you've ordered
for your "Gaming machine" has onboard graphics?!?!?

Both my last system, a MSI socket 478 Intel equipped Duron, and this
Gigabyte have onboard graphics;- the MSI was a returned "open box" and
I never got the graphics connections to work. The GB being a new
factory "unopened" box, will prove very distasteful if it doesn't.
As for no $200 motherboards having PCI slots... Where in God's name have you
been looking. I bought a new MB for my main PC a few months back... and
guess what... It has PCI slots. I have just bought a new MB for my server
and... guess what... it has PCI slots...

I'm not even going to respond to the rest of what you said. It was a jumble
of the bleeding obvious and stuff that made no sense.

It's my peeve that it isn't 5-PCI defacto slots, these days, that
budget boards come with usually 2 PCI slots, which, compounded with
MBs being overall more expensive, doesn't help matters. I've enjoyed
that provision, from ISA to PCI, knowing I can search out interesting
PCI peripheral slotted card functions. At least up until now.

No, it wouldn't nor needn't make sense if arguing for OP's "the hidden
pitfalls of tech speak". One recommendation, in other words,
apparently, is as good as another. Personally I take slews on
recommendations into a broader or generalized sense of consideration,
and sift interesting and likely candidates against reviewer of a likes
of Tom's Hardware or Anadtech.

I see, offhand, you've $450 recommended for my outlay of $116. Seems
reasonable I could match a practical implication of that gaming
performance, within an allowance of up, additionally, $200, for $84
additional dollars applied to an updated CPU, whereupon having
researching GPU boards not to exclude open box returned items. Fees
for shipping back Newgg GPUs they're reselling me, after some gameboy
screws them up royally by attempting overclocks, of course, shouldn't
be held, within any addition sum(s), accountable to me. Although I
suppose it would be, ultimately, a weight of individual importance
attached to gaming, from my POV -- a hypothetical take on a leeway of
incertitude the OP requested. Here's the itemized $116 (I've
discounted the fans), point-to-point, I'll match to your rig for
starters on an accessibly, non-technical gaming experience. Know
you'll have advantage, being I've been out of games since POSTAL, and
out of politeness didn't recommend, for a no-brainer, Microsoft's
XBox.

1 G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual
Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ - Retail Item #:
N82E16820231098 Limited Non-Refundable 30-Day Return Policy $31.99

2 APEVIA CF12SL-4C 120mm Multi-Color LED Case Fan - Retail Item #:
N82E16811998128 $14.98 ($7.49 ea)

1 AMD Athlon 64 LE-1640 Orleans 2.6GHz Socket AM2 45W Single-Core
Processor Model ADH1640DHBOX - Retail Item #: N82E16819103239 $35.99

1 GIGABYTE GA-M61PME-S2 AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 / nForce 430 Micro ATX
AMD Motherboard - Retail Item #: N82E16813128333 Limited 30-Day Return
Policy $48.99

Subtotal $131.95 Tax $0.00 UPS Ground $0.00Order Total $131.95
 
It's all I wanted, not what I could afford. If I'm running a 2.6Ghz
on a single core for one application, which usually is the case, what
benefit will I drive from 3 extra cores sitting idle?

A single core has to do everything. A multicore can share out the load.
Remember that while running a game the PC is doing more than just running
the game. It is running the OS as well, quite possibly MSN, teamspeak and
other apps in the background.

I noticed a massive improvement in Armed Assault for example when swapping
my dual core for a quad core even though Armed Assault is NOT specially
written for multi core. With the dual core I had to set the view distance to
only 3Km.. with the quadcore I can run happily with a view distance of
6-8km... with the same graphics card!
The predominance and focus of better MBs I'm seeing increasingly
approaching $200 price tiers is situated within $300+ video card
arena. Now, take away all my games, so I can't play, what conceivable
benefit then will an array of two individually priced $500 SLI video
cards, say, provide me?

Who wants SLI or CrossFire anyway? They are a total waste of money. They
cost more than twice as much and offer only a little more performance! You
don't need SLI or Crossfire for a reasonable gaming PC.
Where it's going to help shore your argument
against me into a multi-core CPU stance, is only to direct the focus
back to programs (again, many games) written to utilize a multiple
core environment;- it almost might hold validity were were there a
backlash of XP loyalists against VISTA, especially among the corporate
scene.

1. What has the Vista backlash got to do with it? XP is just as multicore as
Vista.

2. Most games on the market now will benefit from a multicore. Most games in
developement now will be being written to take full advantage of dual and
quad cores. Armed Assault 2 and Operation Flashpoint 2 for example both
quote it as a feature of the games.
Both my last system, a MSI socket 478 Intel equipped Duron, and this
Gigabyte have onboard graphics;- the MSI was a returned "open box" and
I never got the graphics connections to work. The GB being a new
factory "unopened" box, will prove very distasteful if it doesn't.

My point is, onboard graphics are going to be woefully inadequate for modern
games.

What has the state of the box got to do with your choice of component.
Surely that has much more to do with your choice of supplier!
It's my peeve that it isn't 5-PCI defacto slots, these days, that
budget boards come with usually 2 PCI slots, which, compounded with
MBs being overall more expensive, doesn't help matters. I've enjoyed
that provision, from ISA to PCI, knowing I can search out interesting
PCI peripheral slotted card functions. At least up until now.

Even budget mobos today come with onboard sound and LAN connections, thus
removing the need for two addon cards. If you look around you will find
mobos for reasonable prices with 4-5 PCI slots.

I have been building my own PCs since the era of the 386 and I don't agree
that motherboards are in general any more expensive, in real terms, than
they were 5, 10 or 15 years ago. Yes you can spend stupid amounts of money
on a top end mobo, but also you can get a very good mobo for reasonable
money.
I see, offhand, you've $450 recommended for my outlay of $116.

Yes.. I suggested components of that general outlay. For one simple reason!
That is where I believe the best bang for buck point is in the current range
on offer. The system I suggested is FAR more capable than that you are
suggesting.

I believe you are making false economies by buying cheap components that are
already obsolescent. If your system isn't up to the job (and I content it
isn't) then your $116 is simply wasted!
Here's the itemized $116 (I've
discounted the fans), point-to-point, I'll match to your rig for
starters on an accessibly, non-technical gaming experience. Know
you'll have advantage, being I've been out of games since POSTAL, and
out of politeness didn't recommend, for a no-brainer, Microsoft's
XBox.

1 G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual
Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ - Retail Item #:
N82E16820231098 Limited Non-Refundable 30-Day Return Policy $31.99

Resonable, 2Gb is OK, but RAM is cheap at the moment so why not get 4Gb?
2 APEVIA CF12SL-4C 120mm Multi-Color LED Case Fan - Retail Item #:
N82E16811998128 $14.98 ($7.49 ea)

Hmmm... Multi-colour case fans... I rest my case!
1 AMD Athlon 64 LE-1640 Orleans 2.6GHz Socket AM2 45W Single-Core
Processor Model ADH1640DHBOX - Retail Item #: N82E16819103239 $35.99

Just not up to the job. I have a Athlon 64 2.4GHz machine here which I use
for work. It will just about run SWAT 4 but Armed Assault and Supreme
Commander are unplayable.
1 GIGABYTE GA-M61PME-S2 AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 / nForce 430 Micro ATX
AMD Motherboard - Retail Item #: N82E16813128333 Limited 30-Day Return
Policy $48.99

A GeForce 6100 is totally underpowered to play most of the major games
nowadays. It is FOUR generations behind the current cards. The mobo may be
OK, but the onboard graphics fall woefully short of that a "Gaming" PC
requires.
Subtotal $131.95 Tax $0.00 UPS Ground $0.00Order Total $131.95

If it doesn't meet the specification of being a "gaming machine", i.e. able
to play games, then that is just $131.95 wasted!

Rarius
 
A single core has to do everything. A multicore can share out the load.
Remember that while running a game the PC is doing more than just running
the game. It is running the OS as well, quite possibly MSN, teamspeak and
other apps in the background.

I'm reading VISTA is the main benefactor of a multi-core. In a single
core config, it's a do-able, while not doing much else. As for XP,
that's generalities -- at least here it is. I rename or delete
anything other of MS's that isn't critical or an unnecessary
component.
I noticed a massive improvement in Armed Assault for example when swapping
my dual core for a quad core even though Armed Assault is NOT specially
written for multi core. With the dual core I had to set the view distance to
only 3Km.. with the quadcore I can run happily with a view distance of
6-8km... with the same graphics card!

Yes - to "showcase" system performance, there's a balance of best
tuning the GPU/CPU as a combo for a least bottleneck. There's also
got to be a reason, though, for the 4-core improvements -- measurably
so, whether with the same graphics board, its as much inherent to an
improved CPU design the OS is in no sense obstructing.
Who wants SLI or CrossFire anyway? They are a total waste of money. They
cost more than twice as much and offer only a little more performance! You
don't need SLI or Crossfire for a reasonable gaming PC.

I'm not the one to be asking, as I wouldn't in my wildest dreams
consider specialty video boards a viable course. What's ticking me
off, though, about MBs is they're increasingly the high-point of MB
directions. Want a better MB, then that means, you're looking
exclusively at a bunch of video advertising.
1. What has the Vista backlash got to do with it? XP is just as multicore as
Vista.

No, not what I'm hearing. Vista is more situated to take advantage of
the multi-core.

No, all I was saying -- within a context of the OP's exectations, is
an AGP upgrade coming off a 2.6Ghz CPU should be reasonably sufficient
improvement for quite a core cadre of extant games. Obviously, the
latest and greatest octal-core game programming advancements will take
a hit. Although I'm also running both my system's with Radeon>Omega
AGP flatpannel television 9XXX drivers, there's no hit for non-gaming
video streaming, which mostly suffices for "video" I do these days
(excepions being MKV format files, although that could be a video
player driver engine issue). My parts list, enroute, is a basic
config, further, to utilize its PCIEx16 and a multicore, I'd wagered
(against yours) I could, in addition, "splurge" a little, within $80,
comfortably for a hypothetic instead advanced: *were I* to substitute
and buy a multi-core (or even faster single core if any are left on
the market?), as well utilize and buy a videoboard, to put into
Gigabyte's PCI-E slot, instead of its onboard NVIDIA chipset -- for a
viable gaming system. All this is new, multi-cores and PCI-E, at this
point to me. I'm a couple of generations behind hardware
developments, although I wouldn't exactly expect "great balls of
thunder" out of it, either -- given experience, just a cheap-shot way
into games. His choice of running with Farmer in the DELL, however,
throws all bets off. I've never touched a system I didn't, myself,
build.
Even budget mobos today come with onboard sound and LAN connections, thus
removing the need for two addon cards. If you look around you will find
mobos for reasonable prices with 4-5 PCI slots.

4-5 PCI slots. Ha! 3, possibly, four is pushing to untenable. You
can look. I've had it and already have consigned myself to just
getting along with fewer.
I have been building my own PCs since the era of the 386 and I don't agree
that motherboards are in general any more expensive, in real terms, than
they were 5, 10 or 15 years ago. Yes you can spend stupid amounts of money
on a top end mobo, but also you can get a very good mobo for reasonable
money.

Tell me about it. My first build was V20 I swapped, above 640K of
memory, in and out of EMS 3.2 through an AST Rampage. Ever heard of a
technical writer named Michael Bolton? There may be a few here who
have.
Yes.. I suggested components of that general outlay. For one simple reason!
That is where I believe the best bang for buck point is in the current range
on offer. The system I suggested is FAR more capable than that you are
suggesting.

I did purposefully suggest "a weight of individual importance" to
qualify gaming;- obviously, inasmuch that by far and capable, then
wouldn't be within same leeway I'd care, monetarily or otherwise, to
expend into a import gaming signifies.
I believe you are making false economies by buying cheap components that are
already obsolescent. If your system isn't up to the job (and I content it
isn't) then your $116 is simply wasted!

Wouldn't it be grand if it were -- Armed Assault 2 and Operation
Flashpoint 2, mind, aren't likely the only games in town, for some
otherwise perfectly playable games which not be so endowed. I'd need
a broader assessment of games in general to substantiate a multi-core
premise, as you're advancing, of preference. The logical behind my
argument still stands: what's going to be so convincingly different to
a singular game screen, between a single core which is faster than
multiple cores.

Resonable, 2Gb is OK, but RAM is cheap at the moment so why not get 4Gb?

I'm cheap-assed. :)
Hmmm... Multi-colour case fans... I rest my case!

Look again - they're the only fans permitted me that don't bump the
tariff off free shipping. I'm a firm believer in cooling as the least
detrimental factor to a PC's longevity.
Just not up to the job. I have a Athlon 64 2.4GHz machine here which I use
for work. It will just about run SWAT 4 but Armed Assault and Supreme
Commander are unplayable.

See #1, although a dual-core was sorely tempting. Really, though,
duallies are getting cheaper by the dozen every day, and its a later
option.
A GeForce 6100 is totally underpowered to play most of the major games
nowadays. It is FOUR generations behind the current cards. The mobo may be
OK, but the onboard graphics fall woefully short of that a "Gaming" PC
requires.

See #1 & #3.
If it doesn't meet the specification of being a "gaming machine", i.e. able
to play games, then that is just $131.95 wasted!

I remain yours truly, an unconvinced Flasherly.
 
I'm reading VISTA is the main benefactor of a multi-core. In a single
core config, it's a do-able, while not doing much else. As for XP,
that's generalities -- at least here it is. I rename or delete
anything other of MS's that isn't critical or an unnecessary
component.

What a load of rubbish. As well as gaming, I am a professional software
engineer and graphical artist. WinXP is perfectly capable of using
multi-core processors. Vista may do a better job of loading the cores, etc.,
but it is a few years newer. Just because Vista is better at it doesn't mean
XP can't do it.

I ran tests with games, software development tools and graphics packages
when I got my quad core to see just how much of an improvement it was. I was
pleasantly surprised on all three counts. I am getting much better
performance from my quad core than I got from my dual core, on XP, at the
same clock speed! Not really surprising I have 4 cores, not 2, or 1!
No, not what I'm hearing. Vista is more situated to take advantage of
the multi-core.

If you are not hearing that then you need to be expanding who you are
listening to.
No, all I was saying -- within a context of the OP's exectations, is
an AGP upgrade coming off a 2.6Ghz CPU should be reasonably sufficient
improvement for quite a core cadre of extant games.

I am sorry, but you are hopelessly out of date. There are no AGP graphics
cards capable of many of running todays mainstream games (and I am NOT
talking about things like Crysis!) The AGP bus just doesn't deliver the
bandwidth required by modern cards!

The OP asked for suggestions to build a "Gaming" PC, not a low budget PC
that could play a few low end games.
4-5 PCI slots. Ha! 3, possibly, four is pushing to untenable. You
can look. I've had it and already have consigned myself to just
getting along with fewer.

It took me less then two minutes to find this:
Foxconn Core 2 Quad/ Intel G31/ DDR2/ A&V&GbE/ ATX G31AXK
1x PCI-Express x16 Slot; 5x PCI Slots
http://www.compuvest.com/Desc.jsp;jsessionid=a9mriAx-a8_7ttbJi7?iid=933811
Tell me about it. My first build was V20 I swapped, above 640K of
memory, in and out of EMS 3.2 through an AST Rampage. Ever heard of a
technical writer named Michael Bolton? There may be a few here who
have.

Michael Bolton... wasn't he a long haired singer in the late 80s?

You're not thinking of a fictional character from the film "Office Space"
are you?
I did purposefully suggest "a weight of individual importance" to
qualify gaming;- obviously, inasmuch that by far and capable, then
wouldn't be within same leeway I'd care, monetarily or otherwise, to
expend into a import gaming signifies.

I can only assume that english isn't your first language as that sentence
made little or no grammatical or logical sense!

I reiterate my earlier point... The OP asked for a "Gaming" PC!
Wouldn't it be grand if it were -- Armed Assault 2 and Operation
Flashpoint 2, mind, aren't likely the only games in town, for some
otherwise perfectly playable games which not be so endowed. I'd need
a broader assessment of games in general to substantiate a multi-core
premise, as you're advancing, of preference. The logical behind my
argument still stands: what's going to be so convincingly different to
a singular game screen, between a single core which is faster than
multiple cores.

Armed Assault 2 et al are not going to be the only games in town, but they
are a reasonable benchmark for a "Gaming" PC to aim for.
I'm cheap-assed. :)

No comment!
Look again - they're the only fans permitted me that don't bump the
tariff off free shipping. I'm a firm believer in cooling as the least
detrimental factor to a PC's longevity.

Strange that you have made no effort to look at improving the HSF then!
See #1, although a dual-core was sorely tempting. Really, though,
duallies are getting cheaper by the dozen every day, and its a later
option.

Actually processor prices have started to go up recently. The quad core I
bought last summer is now 30% more expensive!
See #1 & #3.

See what? #1 & #3 where?
I remain yours truly, an unconvinced Flasherly.

You spend your money how you want, I'll spend mine how I want and I'll be
happy having a far better computer than you.

Rarius
 
If you are not hearing that then you need to be expanding who you are
listening to.

It may be, all things considered, the Vista overhead is substantially
more and a benefit derived from the multicore is near an imperative
with anything past rudimentary usage. Whether code is specific, I
wouldn't offhand know, although it's an encouraging note that XP also
does well by present standards and newer offerings.
I am sorry, but you are hopelessly out of date. There are no AGP graphics
cards capable of many of running todays mainstream games (and I am NOT
talking about things like Crysis!) The AGP bus just doesn't deliver the
bandwidth required by modern cards!

When I said AGP-upgrade, it was meant to convey some minium of PCI-E
video standards.
It took me less then two minutes to find this:
Foxconn Core 2 Quad/ Intel G31/ DDR2/ A&V&GbE/ ATX G31AXK
1x PCI-Express x16 Slot; 5x PCI Slots
http://www.compuvest.com/Desc.jsp;jsessionid=a9mriAx-a8_7ttbJi7?iid=9...

Thanks, but I'm an ABIT, ASUS, MSI type. In that order - the three
largest in world production standings last I looked. Last time I took
a recommendation was BIOSTAR -- it was bloody awful, disastrously
slotted first Athlon.
Armed Assault 2 et al are not going to be the only games in town, but they
are a reasonable benchmark for a "Gaming" PC to aim for.

Fine, as long as I can run cheat codes, save and take back, and rerun
traps from a first-person shooter perspective, which is what I liked
most about the first non-ASCII graphical games I saw.

Strange that you have made no effort to look at improving the HSF then!

Look again, *believe* I've order one at 45W, so you've got to be
kidding...as little power, this should to be great! My days of
overclocking are pretty much over, too.
Actually processor prices have started to go up recently. The quad core I
bought last summer is now 30% more expensive!

Yes, that can be the way of supply and demand. I've really been
nailed on memory prices also at times.
You spend your money how you want, I'll spend mine how I want and I'll be
happy having a far better computer than you.

Or, you support the industry at leading-edge prices, and I'll come
after dollar-cost-avg into enjoying the slack at substantially less.
Only thing I'd have done differently to play a couple games would be
drop another $80 and possibly buy a meatier CPU and definitely a
returned-item dedicated PCI-Express videoboard with some good
reviews. Depending on the games, I suppose.
 
Thanks, but I'm an ABIT, ASUS, MSI type. In that order - the three
largest in world production standings last I looked. Last time I took
a recommendation was BIOSTAR -- it was bloody awful, disastrously
slotted first Athlon.

I actually have a ABit mobo in my main PC right now and very nice it is
too... Pity they got taken over last year and have recently announced that
they are getting out of the mobo business!

There is little wrong with Asus, but I would strongly suggest avoiding MSI.
I have had nothing but trouble with MSI motherboards over the years.
Fine, as long as I can run cheat codes, save and take back, and rerun
traps from a first-person shooter perspective, which is what I liked
most about the first non-ASCII graphical games I saw.

I have never understood players who use cheat codes. I last used one in the
days of Doom! I rarely play single player games nowadays. I MUCH prefer to
play online. Playing a cooperative mission with a group of buddies while
chatting to them over teamspeak adds a whole new dimension to the games.
Look again, *believe* I've order one at 45W, so you've got to be
kidding...as little power, this should to be great! My days of
overclocking are pretty much over, too.

Both AMD and Intel downsize the HSFs they supply until it is only just good
enough. I would always suggest buying a reasonable third party HSF.
Personally I like the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro (I think there is an AMD
version too). Not only does it keep my quad core below 55C on full load,
but it costs under £15! There are better coolers around, but not at that
price!
Or, you support the industry at leading-edge prices, and I'll come
after dollar-cost-avg into enjoying the slack at substantially less.
Only thing I'd have done differently to play a couple games would be
drop another $80 and possibly buy a meatier CPU and definitely a
returned-item dedicated PCI-Express videoboard with some good
reviews. Depending on the games, I suppose.

I have NEVER bought bleeding edge hardware. If you check back through my
postings in theis group you'll see that. I generally buy about a generation
behind the latest hardware. That way I get hardware that is good enough to
do what I want but don't pay premium prices.

I always aim to buy at the knee of the price/performance graph. When I
needed to upgrade my CPU last year, I wrote a quick excel spreadsheed
comparing all the processors in my price range and their benchmarks. It took
about 20mins to do and helped me to find the best price/performance CPU...
which at the time was the Intel Q6600.

Regards

Rarius
 
I actually have a ABit mobo in my main PC right now and very nice it is
too... Pity they got taken over last year and have recently announced that
they are getting out of the mobo business!

There is little wrong with Asus, but I would strongly suggest avoiding MSI.
I have had nothing but trouble with MSI motherboards over the years.

MSI never has been an edgy or featured MB, although they've had a
reputation for solid performance -- maybe it's time I start looking
harder at Gigabyte. That's too bad about ABIT, little pricey, but
usually top quality. ASUS is a sure thing double-take when there's
one on sale.
I have never understood players who use cheat codes. I last used one in the
days of Doom! I rarely play single player games nowadays. I MUCH prefer to
play online. Playing a cooperative mission with a group of buddies while
chatting to them over teamspeak adds a whole new dimension to the games.

Old soft spot for me -- first thing I learned how to do on a computer
was to cheat an ASCII games. The "bad guys" were things like: /*?'|,
although not playing online might encourage that sort of behavior.
Both AMD and Intel downsize the HSFs they supply until it is only just good
enough. I would always suggest buying a reasonable third party HSF.
Personally I like the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro (I think there is an AMD
version too). Not only does it keep my quad core below 55C on full load,
but it costs under £15! There are better coolers around, but not at that
price!

I'll look it over, but expect a generic AMD fan, whether it's a 65/85/
W class processor, imagine it would be the same -- 45W, though, should
be interesting. HSinks are sweet these days, lots of mini copper
refrigerators competitively prices.
I have NEVER bought bleeding edge hardware. If you check back through my
postings in theis group you'll see that. I generally buy about a generation
behind the latest hardware. That way I get hardware that is good enough to
do what I want but don't pay premium prices.

I said I was a couple generations behind. AGP and early DDR wouldn't
quite encompass what must be 5 years usage. And the bad part is this
new one coming isn't as interesting as a safeguard. I've a tendency
to start flipping them once I start -- going through three or four,
ironing them out, optimized to sell, make a little profit, and onto
another build and angling the dealz. Bad part, when I say a little
profit, is an implied support base behind too many people asking
questions about problems that really don't pertain to hardware. But,
since they're usually also friends...
I always aim to buy at the knee of the price/performance graph. When I
needed to upgrade my CPU last year, I wrote a quick excel spreadsheed
comparing all the processors in my price range and their benchmarks. It took
about 20mins to do and helped me to find the best price/performance CPU....
which at the time was the Intel Q6600.

I've got an Intel with one core 200Mhz faster -- it's like a $35/US
socket 478 Duron 2.6Ghz across the room that plays movies when I'm not
listening to music, hooked to a nice stereo. It *was* the same as one
core from a 2.4Ghz 7511 Kentfield, a 2.4Ghz Duron, until a similar
Duron computer I'd built (priced and sold for a little over parts,
etc) was returned twice: 1) Informed me an IT-trained type had
diagnosed and pronounced the HD dead, so I replaced the HD, on good
faith, only to find it good, and returned it to him with two working
HDs; 2) Whereupon he then said it wouldn't power up. I took and
powered it up perfectly and returned it -- he said it still wouldn't.
Best I can figure is something happened to the house wiring, (from the
phone, I had him plugging it into different sockets in different rooms
in the house), which of course didn't help matters. ...Just maybe, it
was related to my refusing to drive 40 miles to hold his wife's hand
whenever she had a computer problem. I did keep his 2.6Ghz processor,
though, and gave him back my old 2.4. Heh - he's one of my
supervisors where I work, and now doesn't talk much to me about
computers. Said he gave it to his daughter to take to college. I
recommended he buy something along a $1600 DELL -- with DELL's service
contract. First dissatisfied person ever from a ton or two computers
I've sold. Also, first Intels I've bought since an Intel 386SX/20Mhz,
Intel had sat on, making me wait forever and ever, while they cornered
the EMS multi/task swapping market environment with their overpriced
processors, until Cyrix and AMD broke Intel's stalemate. I'm
impressed -- and now tell everyone what a nice little beater a humble
Duron is. Simple as pie to setup, no finicky AMD particulars that can
surface over time, with Intel's rock-solid reputation as a developer's
platform behind it.
 
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