Wireless and wired networking newbie question.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rachael of Nex, the Wiccan Rat
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Rachael of Nex, the Wiccan Rat

Currently I have two pcs (one running XP, the server, and one running 2000)
in one room (where they will stay) networked via Realtek ethernet cards to
each other (with a crossover cable as I recall). One of these machines - the
server - has a usb dsl modem that connects to the internet, and I am running
ICS to let everyone else on the network connect to the net also. This
machine also has an MSI bluetooth dongle in it, over which I have ICS to my
laptop (XP), also with a bt dongle. The wired LAN and the BT LAN are bridged
on the server machine, all we can all see each other's files and connect to
the net no problems. The Windows XP wizard helped with that. ;-)
However, the only fly in the ointment is, the two wired pcs have to be on
all the time for the lappy to use ICS. Which is abit of a bind. So I am
toying with the idea of a wired and wireless router or access point. Which
brings me to my first question.

Router or access point - what is the difference ?

If I want to keep my two ethernet cards in the two desktop pcs, dump the bt
as a networking device and replace that in my lappy with a wireless card, I
am assuming I need
a) a router or access point that can deal with both 2 wired and however many
(currently only one) wireless connections, and my usb modem can plug into it
and then the router becomes the internet sharing device as opposed to using
windows ICS, and
b) a wireless card for my lappy cps obviously one likes to take the lappy
all over the house.

Is this the best way to do it, will it work, and if not, what is the best
way ?

Bearing in mind that my requirements are:
I don't want to have to have all the machines running for the lappy to
access the net.
We all must be able to see each others files (when we are switched on of
course !)
At the moment I can ICS over BT from the machines on the first floor of my
house to the lappy when it is downstairs, or out in the garden - which is
about sixty feet away but as the garden is sloped where I sit in the garden
ends up being at the same hieght as the first floor rooms (IYSWIM) - I will
still want to do this.
I am not a technical dunderhead but I don't want to be setting up IPs and
messing with stuff - I want as easy an installation as possible, with a nice
friendly wizard to help me !
And I don't want to go spending an absolute fortune - money is tight. I am
in the UK and would prefer to buy from somewhere shipped in the UK also.


Any help, pointers or recommendations of manufacturers and models of
hardware to consider would be most appreciated.



Rachael
 
Buy a wireless router and dump the ICS. Most support 4 Cat 5 connections in
addition to wireless.
Your DSL modem could be a problem. You will likely need an ethernet modem.
Most ISP's will exchange it for you (assuming they supplied it).
 
Greetings. I'll include my responses in your post below:
Currently I have two pcs (one running XP, the server, and one running 2000)
in one room (where they will stay) networked via Realtek ethernet cards to
each other (with a crossover cable as I recall). One of these machines - the
server - has a usb dsl modem that connects to the internet, and I am running
ICS to let everyone else on the network connect to the net also. This
machine also has an MSI bluetooth dongle in it, over which I have ICS to my
laptop (XP), also with a bt dongle. The wired LAN and the BT LAN are bridged
on the server machine, all we can all see each other's files and connect to
the net no problems. The Windows XP wizard helped with that. ;-)
However, the only fly in the ointment is, the two wired pcs have to be on
all the time for the lappy to use ICS. Which is abit of a bind. So I am
toying with the idea of a wired and wireless router or access point. Which
brings me to my first question.

Router or access point - what is the difference ?
Click to expand...

Here's my take on these for your purposes. Both can be used to share a
single internet connection without having to keep one computer on to
make that connection, which is the case for ICS. The primary difference
is that a router sends packets between DIFFERENT networks where as an
access point (AP) sends packets to computers that are in the SAME
network, and APs are usually wireless.

If I want to keep my two ethernet cards in the two desktop pcs, dump the bt
as a networking device and replace that in my lappy with a wireless card, I
am assuming I need
a) a router or access point that can deal with both 2 wired and however many
(currently only one) wireless connections, and my usb modem can plug into it
and then the router becomes the internet sharing device as opposed to using
windows ICS, and
b) a wireless card for my lappy cps obviously one likes to take the lappy
all over the house.

Is this the best way to do it, will it work, and if not, what is the best
way ?
Click to expand...

These days many vendors make combinations of routers, APs, and switches.
I have one like this by Linksys. It's a three-in-one package: a
router which handles the traffic between the ISP and my LAN/WLAN, a
switch so I can locally network computers with ethernet cable, and an
access point for my wireless devices. Once you get one of these, you
can ditch ICS and never keep a computer on for another to have internet
access. You also get the benefit of wired and wireless networks.
Routers and access points are also designed so that they internally make
the internet connection for you. I also noticed recently in several
local computer stores that most APs utilize the 802.11 standards instead
of the BT standard, whick AFAIK are not compatible.
Bearing in mind that my requirements are:
I don't want to have to have all the machines running for the lappy to
access the net.
Click to expand...

The AP portion will take care of this because you want to go wireless,
but it also means you could be replacing your BT device with an 802.11
standard wireless device (currently the a, b, and g standards are
deployed in stores, but more will come eventually).
We all must be able to see each others files (when we are switched on of
course !)
Click to expand...

The switch portion will take care of this for ethernet. The AP will do
this for the wireless devices. The switch and AP computers will be able
to see each other as long as they both exist in the same segment, which
is guaranteed when using DHCP. Mosts (if not all) routers/APs have this
included.
At the moment I can ICS over BT from the machines on the first floor of my
house to the lappy when it is downstairs, or out in the garden - which is
about sixty feet away but as the garden is sloped where I sit in the garden
ends up being at the same hieght as the first floor rooms (IYSWIM) - I will
still want to do this.
Click to expand...

The AP will take care of this.
I am not a technical dunderhead but I don't want to be setting up IPs and
messing with stuff - I want as easy an installation as possible, with a nice
friendly wizard to help me !
And I don't want to go spending an absolute fortune - money is tight. I am
in the UK and would prefer to buy from somewhere shipped in the UK also.
Click to expand...

When using DHCP, the IPs will be done for you. Right now the cheapest
to buy is any device that uses 802.11b. It's widely available and is
plenty fast for most people for internet use. It maxes out, in theory,
to 11mbps and uses the 2.4Ghz frequency, making file sharing somewhat
slow. 802.11g is little more expensive, though not by too much from
what I've seen, and it also uses 2.4Ghz. 802.11a is just way too much
right now. It gives you a theoretical rate of up to 54mbps at the 5Ghz
frequency, not too shabby for file sharing and more than enough for
internet use, but it carries a high price compared to the other
standards. If the speed of file sharing over wireless is not an issue,
go for 802.11b. If you want better speed and want to spend a little
more, 802.11g will be fine. 802.11a is just too damn expensive around
my area.

Another thing to note is that there are security issues involving WEP,
an encryption scheme for wireless networks. A new issue was recently
announced about attackers having the ability to apply a Denial of
Service attack to the wireless network, taking it offline. You could
also be in for another headache if there are too many other devices
nearby that use the same frequency of 802.11b or 802.11g (some cordless
phones, microwaves, etc.). So make sure that there's not too much
interference. A good website to browse is http://www.wi-fiplanet.com.
They have information regarding wireless networks.
Any help, pointers or recommendations of manufacturers and models of
hardware to consider would be most appreciated.
Click to expand...

I've been very happy with my Linksys BEFW11S4 router/switch/wireless AP.
It was very easy to setup, and it has an intuitive web interface.
It utilizes the 802.11b standard, but it's plenty for the internet, and
I file share through ethernet using the switch. Other vendors that seem
decent are D-Link, Netgear, and SMC. Hope this helps!
Rachael
Click to expand...

Jago
 
Jago said:
Greetings. I'll include my responses in your post below:


Here's my take on these for your purposes. Both can be used to share a
single internet connection without having to keep one computer on to
make that connection, which is the case for ICS. The primary difference
is that a router sends packets between DIFFERENT networks where as an
access point (AP) sends packets to computers that are in the SAME
network, and APs are usually wireless.
Click to expand...

Sooo, I need a combination of the two things, a router with an AP ?
These days many vendors make combinations of routers, APs, and switches.
I have one like this by Linksys. It's a three-in-one package: a
router which handles the traffic between the ISP and my LAN/WLAN, a
switch so I can locally network computers with ethernet cable, and an
access point for my wireless devices. Once you get one of these, you
can ditch ICS and never keep a computer on for another to have internet
access. You also get the benefit of wired and wireless networks.
Routers and access points are also designed so that they internally make
the internet connection for you. I also noticed recently in several
local computer stores that most APs utilize the 802.11 standards instead
of the BT standard, whick AFAIK are not compatible.
Click to expand...

Yus, I thought so. I don't mind dumping the BT stuff.

So if I have one of these I get to discard my usb modem too, is that right ?


When using DHCP, the IPs will be done for you. Right now the cheapest
to buy is any device that uses 802.11b. It's widely available and is
plenty fast for most people for internet use. It maxes out, in theory,
to 11mbps and uses the 2.4Ghz frequency, making file sharing somewhat
slow. 802.11g is little more expensive, though not by too much from
what I've seen, and it also uses 2.4Ghz. 802.11a is just way too much
right now. It gives you a theoretical rate of up to 54mbps at the 5Ghz
frequency, not too shabby for file sharing and more than enough for
internet use, but it carries a high price compared to the other
standards. If the speed of file sharing over wireless is not an issue,
go for 802.11b. If you want better speed and want to spend a little
more, 802.11g will be fine. 802.11a is just too damn expensive around
my area.
Click to expand...

I often stream mp3s from my desktop machines to my lappy over bt and find
that now and again the stream will stop and break up or pause (I don't know
what the speed maxes out at, 720kbps I think ?). I'd like to sort that out.
802.11a sounds nice but whooo - I bet I'll just gawk at the prices. How much
better is 802.11g than b, speed wise ? Though at 11mbps, 802.11b sounds
plenty fast enough for streaming mp3s - if I can do it with BT with a few
drops outs, surely 11mbps is going to seem like paradise !

Another thing to note is that there are security issues involving WEP,
an encryption scheme for wireless networks. A new issue was recently
announced about attackers having the ability to apply a Denial of
Service attack to the wireless network, taking it offline. You could
also be in for another headache if there are too many other devices
nearby that use the same frequency of 802.11b or 802.11g (some cordless
phones, microwaves, etc.). So make sure that there's not too much
interference. A good website to browse is http://www.wi-fiplanet.com.
They have information regarding wireless networks.


I've been very happy with my Linksys BEFW11S4 router/switch/wireless AP.
It was very easy to setup, and it has an intuitive web interface.
It utilizes the 802.11b standard, but it's plenty for the internet, and
I file share through ethernet using the switch. Other vendors that seem
decent are D-Link, Netgear, and SMC. Hope this helps!
Click to expand...
Thankyou Jago - your reply is most helpful and informative.

I have noticed that file sharing over bt is sooooo slow (which is another
reason why I wanted to go for "proper" wireless) - and I would like fast
file sharing over the wireless part, so I was very interested in what you
said about speeds. I'm about to go and look at 802.11a stuff and hope I
don't fall down in a dead faint at the prices .... then I'll get back in
tune with Reality FM and look at 802.11b / g I think ....


Rachael
 
Rachael said:
Sooo, I need a combination of the two things, a router with an AP ?
Click to expand...

Yes. Most routers also include a switch, which will take care of your
wired network. Then the AP will network your wireless devices.

[snip]
Yus, I thought so. I don't mind dumping the BT stuff.

So if I have one of these I get to discard my usb modem too, is that right ?
Click to expand...

You'll have to dump your USB modem for what you want anyway: share an
internet connection without having to use a computer as a gateway. I
don't know what your modem is, but I'm betting it's one that has a port
for your phone line and then a USB port that goes to your computer. It
probably doesn't have an ethernet port, which means you can't use it
with a router/gateway. I've yet to see one that has USB.

You could always get the modem separate, which you might end up doing.
Your ISP definitely has modems that they often include with DSL packages
at an extra cost. They might have wireless solutions that you can buy
as well. Ask your ISP or visit their website.

I looked at several websites to find something that would suit you, and
the only thing I could find that was a modem/router/switch/AP combo was
the Prestige 660HW Series:

http://www.zyxel.com/product/model....dexcate1=1021877946&indexFlagvalue=1021873638

It integrates a high speed ADSL2+ port for your internet, a 4-port
10/100mbps auto-sensing switch for your wired network, and an 802.11g
wireless access point for your wireless devices. The 11g standard is
backward-compatible with 11b. The device also has DHCP support, so you
won't have to worry about IP addresses. In regards to DSL and according
to the spec sheet, the 660HW supports ADSL, ADSL2, and ADSL2+, which
your ISP probably supports. That still doesn't guarantee that the 660HW
will work with your ISP, as they often prefer you get one of the modems
they sell (usually for money, but that's another story). Ask them and
see if they support the 660HW. Judging by its features, it's probably
quite expensive.



[snip]
I often stream mp3s from my desktop machines to my lappy over bt and find
that now and again the stream will stop and break up or pause (I don't know
what the speed maxes out at, 720kbps I think ?). I'd like to sort that out.
802.11a sounds nice but whooo - I bet I'll just gawk at the prices. How much
better is 802.11g than b, speed wise ? Though at 11mbps, 802.11b sounds
plenty fast enough for streaming mp3s - if I can do it with BT with a few
drops outs, surely 11mbps is going to seem like paradise !
Click to expand...

11g gives you a theoretical max throughput of 20mbps, so it will be
significantly faster than 11b. However, all your wireless devices will
have to be 11g as well. Using an 11b adapter with an 11g router, while
it will work, won't do any good if you want 54mbps. 11g can go to 11b,
not vice-versa. Since the max bitrate encoders use is 320kbps, 11b
would be plenty fast and not interfer with the internet. As I mentioned
before, the price difference between 11g and 11b is not as drastic as
those and 11a.

Another thing to consider is that even with 11g, you could still suffer
dropouts from radio interferences or if you're too far out of range from
the router. Things like 2.4GHz cordless phones, microwaves, and any
other 2.4GHz devices (not including those you're using for your network)
could disrupt, if not knock out, your connectivity. Too many walls
between your wireless devices can hinder it too, so placement is
important. Also, enabling WEP will decrease throughput, though it will
add some security. There's overhead in the 802.11 and TCP/IP protocols
anyway, but more will be added with WEP. I don't think it will be
enough to get in the way of your MP3 streaming, but it never hurts to do
a test-run.


[snip]
Thankyou Jago - your reply is most helpful and informative.

I have noticed that file sharing over bt is sooooo slow (which is another
reason why I wanted to go for "proper" wireless) - and I would like fast
file sharing over the wireless part, so I was very interested in what you
said about speeds. I'm about to go and look at 802.11a stuff and hope I
don't fall down in a dead faint at the prices .... then I'll get back in
tune with Reality FM and look at 802.11b / g I think ....
Click to expand...

Definitely look around and compare prices. I failed to mention
something about the 11a standard. It is not compatible with 11g or 11b,
so all of your wireless devices have to support 11a, and that can get a
bit pricey. I think I might have gotten the spec speeds mixed up a bit,
so here they are again just to clarify things:

802.11b - max theoretical speed of 11mbps
802.11g - max theoretical speed of 20+mbps
802.11a - max theoretical speed of 54mbps

Vendors will often add some tweaks to boost these speeds even more, but
they are usually done outside specifications and require that vendor's
hardware to work, which breaks interoperability with other vendors.
Write back and let us know how it goes. Good luck!
 
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