Windows Vista biggest Microsoft embarrassement since Windows ME

[Adam Albright]

Because I'm in a catch 22 situation I had little choice other than to
return Vist Home Premium upgrade and replace it with a Business
upgrade for my XP Pro Upgrade. This was the least of the insane
options offered to avoid doing a clean install, because when you have
nearly two TB of files, yep, not GB, but TB, doing a clean install is
a time consuming nightmare that in addition to reinstalling all my
software and I've got over $10,000 worth that takes a couple days to
reinstall, register and activate, I would also result in having to
redo ALL my backups, (I use the excellent Bounce Back) since a clean
install would trash the files that control the backups spread across
multiple drives including several external drives focing me to backup
everything again from scratch, another long, time consuming
frustrating process that defeats the purpose of having backups in the
first place.

Well, I can report I tried to get my money back and ran into a brick
wall. I purchased the original Vista upgrade yesterday from one of the
giant retail outlets, Fry's. They refuse to take it back. Claimed it
is opened software and as such not subject to credit, return or
refund. Don't like it, in effect they said take it up with Microsoft.

After twenty minutes of arguing the license SAYS to take it back if
you don't agree to it and don't install it to no avail. Even speaking
to the store manager they still refuse, offering the limpest of all
halfass excuses, they couldn't resell it and would have to throw it
away. Yea sure, they couldn't put new shrinkwrap on it. So the fix for
that stupidity will be to call my bank that issued the credit card I
used for the purchase and demand the charges be removed which I assure
you I will proceed with after reporting this idiot store manager to
Fry's headquarters for him being a total jerk.

I then went to a MicroCenter store to get a Visa Business upgrade.
Fry's will no longer have me as a customer, and I've literally spend
thousands there just in the past couple months.

So far, not only did it cost me $40 more to buy a upgrade version I
didn't want, it has "features" I don't need, want and never will use.
Worse, it also removes what I DID want to try, namely Windows Media
Center which is part of the home premium version, but not the business
version. Way to go Microsoft, you continue to excel at pissing off
your customers and also continue to not understand your customer's
needs or wants.

I'll report later if in fact the business version does a in place
upgrade. Already hours of my time wasted, my original $160 in limbo,
and a future fight with my bank, perhaps Visa themselves and Fry's to
get a refund all thanks to some fool at Microsoft that thought it was
"cool" to design upgrades this moronic way.

If Microsoft was in any kind of business besides software, they would
have been laughed out of business years ago for being the arrogant
fools they always are.

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

Microsoft North American Retail Product Refund Guidelines
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/productrefund/refund.asp

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows - Shell/User

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

Because I'm in a catch 22 situation I had little choice other than to
return Vist Home Premium upgrade and replace it with a Business
upgrade for my XP Pro Upgrade. This was the least of the insane
options offered to avoid doing a clean install, because when you have
nearly two TB of files, yep, not GB, but TB, doing a clean install is
a time consuming nightmare that in addition to reinstalling all my
software and I've got over $10,000 worth that takes a couple days to
reinstall, register and activate, I would also result in having to
redo ALL my backups, (I use the excellent Bounce Back) since a clean
install would trash the files that control the backups spread across
multiple drives including several external drives focing me to backup
everything again from scratch, another long, time consuming
frustrating process that defeats the purpose of having backups in the
first place.

Well, I can report I tried to get my money back and ran into a brick
wall. I purchased the original Vista upgrade yesterday from one of the
giant retail outlets, Fry's. They refuse to take it back. Claimed it
is opened software and as such not subject to credit, return or
refund. Don't like it, in effect they said take it up with Microsoft.

After twenty minutes of arguing the license SAYS to take it back if
you don't agree to it and don't install it to no avail. Even speaking
to the store manager they still refuse, offering the limpest of all
halfass excuses, they couldn't resell it and would have to throw it
away. Yea sure, they couldn't put new shrinkwrap on it. So the fix for
that stupidity will be to call my bank that issued the credit card I
used for the purchase and demand the charges be removed which I assure
you I will proceed with after reporting this idiot store manager to
Fry's headquarters for him being a total jerk.

I then went to a MicroCenter store to get a Visa Business upgrade.
Fry's will no longer have me as a customer, and I've literally spend
thousands there just in the past couple months.

So far, not only did it cost me $40 more to buy a upgrade version I
didn't want, it has "features" I don't need, want and never will use.
Worse, it also removes what I DID want to try, namely Windows Media
Center which is part of the home premium version, but not the business
version. Way to go Microsoft, you continue to excel at pissing off
your customers and also continue to not understand your customer's
needs or wants.

I'll report later if in fact the business version does a in place
upgrade. Already hours of my time wasted, my original $160 in limbo,
and a future fight with my bank, perhaps Visa themselves and Fry's to
get a refund all thanks to some fool at Microsoft that thought it was
"cool" to design upgrades this moronic way.

If Microsoft was in any kind of business besides software, they would
have been laughed out of business years ago for being the arrogant
fools they always are.

 

[Rock]

Because I'm in a catch 22 situation I had little choice other than to
return Vist Home Premium upgrade and replace it with a Business
upgrade for my XP Pro Upgrade. This was the least of the insane
options offered to avoid doing a clean install, because when you have
nearly two TB of files, yep, not GB, but TB, doing a clean install is
a time consuming nightmare that in addition to reinstalling all my
software and I've got over $10,000 worth that takes a couple days to
reinstall, register and activate, I would also result in having to
redo ALL my backups, (I use the excellent Bounce Back) since a clean
install would trash the files that control the backups spread across
multiple drives including several external drives focing me to backup
everything again from scratch, another long, time consuming
frustrating process that defeats the purpose of having backups in the
first place.

Well, I can report I tried to get my money back and ran into a brick
wall. I purchased the original Vista upgrade yesterday from one of the
giant retail outlets, Fry's. They refuse to take it back. Claimed it
is opened software and as such not subject to credit, return or
refund. Don't like it, in effect they said take it up with Microsoft.

After twenty minutes of arguing the license SAYS to take it back if
you don't agree to it and don't install it to no avail. Even speaking
to the store manager they still refuse, offering the limpest of all
halfass excuses, they couldn't resell it and would have to throw it
away. Yea sure, they couldn't put new shrinkwrap on it. So the fix for
that stupidity will be to call my bank that issued the credit card I
used for the purchase and demand the charges be removed which I assure
you I will proceed with after reporting this idiot store manager to
Fry's headquarters for him being a total jerk.

I then went to a MicroCenter store to get a Visa Business upgrade.
Fry's will no longer have me as a customer, and I've literally spend
thousands there just in the past couple months.

So far, not only did it cost me $40 more to buy a upgrade version I
didn't want, it has "features" I don't need, want and never will use.
Worse, it also removes what I DID want to try, namely Windows Media
Center which is part of the home premium version, but not the business
version. Way to go Microsoft, you continue to excel at pissing off
your customers and also continue to not understand your customer's
needs or wants.

I'll report later if in fact the business version does a in place
upgrade. Already hours of my time wasted, my original $160 in limbo,
and a future fight with my bank, perhaps Visa themselves and Fry's to
get a refund all thanks to some fool at Microsoft that thought it was
"cool" to design upgrades this moronic way.

If Microsoft was in any kind of business besides software, they would
have been laughed out of business years ago for being the arrogant
fools they always are.

If you want media center features and the ability to do an in place upgrade
from XP Pro then get the Ultimate upgrade version. I don't understand why
you would get the Business version which doesn't have MC and then complain
about it.

 

[Adam Albright]

I'll report later if in fact the business version does a in place
upgrade. Already hours of my time wasted, my original $160 in limbo,
and a future fight with my bank, perhaps Visa themselves and Fry's to
get a refund all thanks to some fool at Microsoft that thought it was
"cool" to design upgrades this moronic way.

If Microsoft was in any kind of business besides software, they would
have been laughed out of business years ago for being the arrogant
fools they always are.

IT JUST KEEPS GETTING WORSE!

Is anybody surprised that Vista crashed for me? I got as far as the
first reboot screen. The first thing that obviously seems WRONG is I
see a dual boot screen, the choices being old system (XP) or setup. By
default it goes to setup in 5 seconds. Normal BIOS screens, then a
black Windows screen with the back and forth scroll bar, followed by
no surprise to me, a stop error. stop 0X0000007B.

I reboot go into BIOS change everything I had spent hours tweaking and
put everything back to "safe defaults". Save BIOS changes, which is
followed by more stop errors. Dozens of them, sometimes different. No
matter what, Vista won't proceed and just haults at the stop page.
Result a totally locked-up computer requiring a foced shut down.

Before that, during the initial stages of install the Vista installer,
says "Potential issues. Will not prevent upgrade, may cause some
applications or devices to no function".

Can you believe that?

Remember I ran the Vista Update Advisor, several times actually, it
gave a green check mark and found no problems. I went online, checked
for updates. It found none. Now I finally start to do the actual
install and the installer finds "potential" problems, says hey they're
not a problem go ahead, then crashes, so geez Microsoft, I guess they
were problems after all, that your junk couldn't find BEFORE I started
to install. So typical of Microsoft crap!

I'm not the pissed-off owner of Vista Home Premium and Vista Business
and neither version will install on a system designed for Vista that
Microsoft's Vista Upgrade Advisor passed. So far I've wasted 5 hours
and and out over $350 and now have a unstable system.

Anybody interested in what problems are now reported when Vista
Upgrade Advisor found none before, but the actual installer does?

Ready to laugh uncontrollably?

MSN Explorer and Windows Messenger 5 is what is claimed as a potential
problem.

Yep, that's right, the five years in development Vista OS chokes on
not one, but two Microsoft applications!

Stop laughing... afterall, we're talking Microsoft. These stupid
things ALWAYS happend with Microsoft crap.

Oh, by the way it gets worse...

Like I keep repeating the Vista Upgrade Advisor gave my system a clean
bill of health. It claimed oh you may after to update some drivers for
your SATA controller and the USB controller, but you can't do that
till you have Vista up and running, right? I actually have some.

It even gave a cute little visual icon of my graphic card, printer,
etc.., said (it lied) that Visa would work fine on my PC. Get that? It
claims everything is ok for you to upgrade, so you go out and buy the
damn crap and this is what happens!

Well now guess what else, the installer says NVIDA Display Drivers ARE
a problem. Well funny, since right now I'm staring at the box the
graphic card came in and surprise, surprise, it has the "built for
Microsoft Windows Vista" sticker right on the box. Remember the
Upgrade Advisor didn't find a damn thing wrong with the graphic card,
in fact is passed it! It again lied or is just useless. Take your
pick. Remember we're talking Microsoft crap.

I just looked at my C drive and thanks to the Vista installer I now
have nearly 3GB, that's right, 3GB of crap from a half way finished
install cluttering up that drive that isn't worth sh.t.

Thanks Microsoft, you should be so proud. <not!>

 

[Adam Albright]

If you want media center features and the ability to do an in place upgrade
from XP Pro then get the Ultimate upgrade version. I don't understand why
you would get the Business version which doesn't have MC and then complain
about it.

I didn't want the Business version either. I was forced to "upgrade"
to that just to try to do a install in place avoiding a clean install.
Look at the mess it created. Your flip answers, go to the Mac store,
aren't funny. You want me to tell you what MVP really stands for?

 

[Guest]

Rock,

I'm with you on this. Adam could have easily obtained the information about
the various Windows Vista versions from Microsoft's website. But I guess he
really wanted to save that extra $50 that Vista Ultimate would have cost him.

So, did he settle for less because of $50 or did he REALLY want Windows
Media Center?? Or did he simply want to bash Microsoft because HE couldn't
make the right decision.

Too, he now knows (one would hope) to return his unused copy of Vista Home
Premium directly to Microsoft and NOT Frys. But I wouldn't be surprised if
he choses to beat a dead horse, so-to-speak.

 

[Adam Albright]

Rock,

I'm with you on this. Adam could have easily obtained the information about
the various Windows Vista versions from Microsoft's website. But I guess he
really wanted to save that extra $50 that Vista Ultimate would have cost him.

So, did he settle for less because of $50 or did he REALLY want Windows
Media Center?? Or did he simply want to bash Microsoft because HE couldn't
make the right decision.

Too, he now knows (one would hope) to return his unused copy of Vista Home
Premium directly to Microsoft and NOT Frys. But I wouldn't be surprised if
he choses to beat a dead horse, so-to-speak.

Why are all MVP here parroting for Microsoft instead of actually
helping? If you want to dance, trust me, I can make your gys dance all
night long.

 

[Rock]

I didn't want the Business version either. I was forced to "upgrade"
to that just to try to do a install in place avoiding a clean install.
Look at the mess it created. Your flip answers, go to the Mac store,
aren't funny. You want me to tell you what MVP really stands for?

I didn't say anything about Mac, not sure what you are talking about there.
I wrote MC meaning Media Center.

I'm also not sure why you say you were forced to upgrade to Business. Why
not get the upgrade version to Ultimate? That has Media Center, not
Business. I'm sorry but I don't understand your reasoning here. Besides no
one is forced to upgrade their OS, only do it if there is a need.

Personally, and especially with all the specialty software you have what I
would have done was get the full version of Vista, either Home Premium if
that will suite all your needs, or Ultimate if you needed certain features
VHP doesn't have, and set up a dual boot. That way you can keep running on
XP, and slowly work out the issues with your hardware and software. I would
not have attempted an upgrade. I would have done extensive research before
making the jump, so I would know what version I wanted, and how I could get
there. I would have researched the hardware drivers, and the software
compatibility by checking the vendor websites, and newsgroups like this.

I would have imaged the XP system first, even if doing a custom install of
Vista in a dual boot, so it can be restored if something doesn't work out,
and image the Vista system after it's installed so if something happens to
it the image can be restored rather than going through a reinstall of Vista.

Good luck.

 

[Adam Albright]

I'm also not sure why you say you were forced to upgrade to Business.

Because in Microsoft's legendary arrogance and mind numbing stupidness
it for reasons only know to itself and it money grubbing marketing
department decided people who already paid a premium price to purchase
a license for XP Pro, can't do a inplace install and "force" them to
purchase a version that has features of no interest at a higher cost
of course. Ditto for Ultimate version. I fail to understand why you or
anybody for that reason feel I and millions of other customers in the
same boat should paid $40 or more for features we'll never use simply
to avoid doing a clean install. Please explain YOUR reasoning to this
illogical Microsoft BS.

Why not get the upgrade version to Ultimate?

Why should I pay more money when the features I want were already in
Home Premium? The only "logic" Microsoft may have used was hey the
customer originally bought XP Pro so of course he'll want a premium
version of Vista. Such absurd leaps in logic are grossly stupid. I
regret purchasing XP Pro. I have only rarely used the "advanced"
featues of XP Pro and do NOT wish to repeat that error in judgement
with Vista, so I'm "downgrading" to a less expensive version that has
features I want and need, not those I don't. Get it yet?

The issue really is why does Microsoft force customers wishing to
avoid the nightmare of a clean install to buy more expensive software
then they want or more importantly need?

That's like going to McDonalds wanting only a quarter pounder and they
won't sell you one unless you also buy cheese on it, a large coke and
large fries. Its absurd. NO customer would put up that kind of crap.
Why should purchasers of software be any different? Nobody here yet
has explained why I should be FORCED to pay a premium price to avoid
doing a clean install. That's simply arrogance on Microsoft's part and
I'm not too bashful to say it.

That has Media Center, not
Business. I'm sorry but I don't understand your reasoning here. Besides no
one is forced to upgrade their OS, only do it if there is a need.

That's a strawman argument. I wish to upgrade for SOME of the new
features. Hint, the ones I want, not what Microsoft attempts to force
on me by trying to push be into a more expensive upgrade. While nobody
foces me or anybody to upgrade anytime a new OS comes out, I should
have reasonable expectations that Vista has been tested so it works as
advertised on products that have received the right to display the
Vista approved or build for labels. Obviously in my case that isn't
what's happening so of course I'm pissed off. Now pretend you wouldn't
be if you were in my situation. So far I bought 2 copies of Vista and
can't install either. I should do what, jump up and down and clap my
hands for my good fortune?

Personally, and especially with all the specialty software you have what I
would have done was get the full version of Vista, either Home Premium if
that will suite all your needs, or Ultimate if you needed certain features
VHP doesn't have, and set up a dual boot. That way you can keep running on
XP, and slowly work out the issues with your hardware and software. I would
not have attempted an upgrade.

You obviously don't have a system with nearly 2 TB of files on it. If
you did, you would run screaming from the room if somebody told you to
do a clean install and spend the next week or two suffering through
all the problems on reinstalling all that software, validating all my
data files and again backing up that monster load. Now can you
honestly say you would? Come on, be honest!

The whole point of a "upgrade" is to do just that... UPGRADE, not
replace. The irony is with Vista it doesn't matter, a clean install or
a upgrade in place still makes images files or so I've been told. So
the problems I'm having I STILL would have regardless how I attempt to
install Vista. I shutter to think what yet lies ahead if Vista is so
damn dumb it can uncompress the CAB files and copy itself to my root
drive,, but then get stuck. That proves it can write to the IDE drive
without problem, which is the ONLY drive it need to access. What seems
to be happening is Vista gets way ahead of itself attempts to
test/install/look for drivers it doesn't need to install. That again
is simply poor design and even worse testing. The time to update
drivers and test them is AFTER the OS is successfully installed. Not
during.

I would have done extensive research before
making the jump, so I would know what version I wanted, and how I could get
there.

You're another guy that doesn't read half of what I said. Done all
that. Vista Upgrade agent PASSED my system and said it was safe to
install Vista. What didn't I do that I should have? The difference
between Home Premium and Business or another version is just a red
herring you're tying to dangle. The core elements are the same
regardless of version. I assumed you knew that. No?

I would have researched the hardware drivers, and the software
compatibility by checking the vendor websites, and newsgroups like this.

Newsgroups "like this" are amusing like political ones are often in
that the vast majority of posters don't have a clue what they're
talking about. In spite of me detail exactly the problems I've had as
ANYONE even come close to a suggestion other than take it back and
stick with XP? Well?

 

[Maverick]

IT JUST KEEPS GETTING WORSE!

Is anybody surprised that Vista crashed for me? I got as far as the
first reboot screen. The first thing that obviously seems WRONG is I
see a dual boot screen, the choices being old system (XP) or setup. By
default it goes to setup in 5 seconds. Normal BIOS screens, then a
black Windows screen with the back and forth scroll bar, followed by
no surprise to me, a stop error. stop 0X0000007B.

I reboot go into BIOS change everything I had spent hours tweaking and
put everything back to "safe defaults". Save BIOS changes, which is
followed by more stop errors. Dozens of them, sometimes different. No
matter what, Vista won't proceed and just haults at the stop page.
Result a totally locked-up computer requiring a foced shut down.

Before that, during the initial stages of install the Vista installer,
says "Potential issues. Will not prevent upgrade, may cause some
applications or devices to no function".

Can you believe that?

Remember I ran the Vista Update Advisor, several times actually, it
gave a green check mark and found no problems. I went online, checked
for updates. It found none. Now I finally start to do the actual
install and the installer finds "potential" problems, says hey they're
not a problem go ahead, then crashes, so geez Microsoft, I guess they
were problems after all, that your junk couldn't find BEFORE I started
to install. So typical of Microsoft crap!

I'm not the pissed-off owner of Vista Home Premium and Vista Business
and neither version will install on a system designed for Vista that
Microsoft's Vista Upgrade Advisor passed. So far I've wasted 5 hours
and and out over $350 and now have a unstable system.

Anybody interested in what problems are now reported when Vista
Upgrade Advisor found none before, but the actual installer does?

Ready to laugh uncontrollably?

MSN Explorer and Windows Messenger 5 is what is claimed as a potential
problem.

Yep, that's right, the five years in development Vista OS chokes on
not one, but two Microsoft applications!

Stop laughing... afterall, we're talking Microsoft. These stupid
things ALWAYS happend with Microsoft crap.

Oh, by the way it gets worse...

Like I keep repeating the Vista Upgrade Advisor gave my system a clean
bill of health. It claimed oh you may after to update some drivers for
your SATA controller and the USB controller, but you can't do that
till you have Vista up and running, right? I actually have some.

It even gave a cute little visual icon of my graphic card, printer,
etc.., said (it lied) that Visa would work fine on my PC. Get that? It
claims everything is ok for you to upgrade, so you go out and buy the
damn crap and this is what happens!

Well now guess what else, the installer says NVIDA Display Drivers ARE
a problem. Well funny, since right now I'm staring at the box the
graphic card came in and surprise, surprise, it has the "built for
Microsoft Windows Vista" sticker right on the box. Remember the
Upgrade Advisor didn't find a damn thing wrong with the graphic card,
in fact is passed it! It again lied or is just useless. Take your
pick. Remember we're talking Microsoft crap.

I just looked at my C drive and thanks to the Vista installer I now
have nearly 3GB, that's right, 3GB of crap from a half way finished
install cluttering up that drive that isn't worth sh.t.

Thanks Microsoft, you should be so proud. <not!>

Sorry you are having problems, but then...

Do you have a spare hard drive? If so, yank out your XP drive and put
in the blank drive and try installation. It might work.
If it does, then you can move over your files off the XP drive to the
new one, if you have room in your PC that is.

If all else fails... take back the Upgrade for a refund. Wait a year or
so to see if they've made significant fixes. If they don't...
Buy a Mac like I did. I just got so discusted with their whole mess
that I just switched and haven't really looked back since.
Man, this iMac is so stable that it is getting boring.

 

[Rock]

Because in Microsoft's legendary arrogance and mind numbing stupidness
it for reasons only know to itself and it money grubbing marketing
department decided people who already paid a premium price to purchase
a license for XP Pro, can't do a inplace install and "force" them to
purchase a version that has features of no interest at a higher cost
of course. Ditto for Ultimate version. I fail to understand why you or
anybody for that reason feel I and millions of other customers in the
same boat should paid $40 or more for features we'll never use simply
to avoid doing a clean install. Please explain YOUR reasoning to this
illogical Microsoft BS.

You said one of the reasons you wanted VHP was because it had media center.
Then you found out that you could not do an in place upgrade to VHP from XP
Pro, so you therefore bought Vista Business. My point is - this makes no
sense, and that's why I asked the question. If you wanted media center why
go to Business when it doesn't have it? Get the Ultimate upgrade. That is
the only product that can upgrade XP Pro and has Media Center. Of course if
the issue of doing an in place upgrade is not so important now, since your
first attempt at it hasn't worked out, then maybe you can go back to VHP,
and do a custom install.

As to the forcing issue, you're not forced into anything. You made a
decision, albeit a poorly researched one, but none the less you made the
choice to buy and upgrade.

Why should I pay more money when the features I want were already in
Home Premium?

Lol..this is funny. You wanted the features of Home Premium. You found out
it couldn't do an upgrade, so you bought Business instead of Ultimate, but
Business doesn't have the feature you wanted Home Premium for - the Media
Center. So, again, if you wanted Media Center why in the world get Business
and not Ultimate? And then on top of all this you claim you were forced
into the Business edition?

The only "logic" Microsoft may have used was hey the
customer originally bought XP Pro so of course he'll want a premium
version of Vista. Such absurd leaps in logic are grossly stupid.

The upgrade to Vista is not the first time there were restrictions on what
version could be upgraded to what version. You could not use an upgrade
version of XP Home to upgrade Windows 2000. It could only be XP Pro. Is
this only a marketing decision? I don't think so. I think there technical
issues involved. Same with going from XP Pro to VHP as an in place upgrade.
There are aspects of Pro that are incompatible with VHP. Could MS have made
it work? I don't know. But then I don't think your analysis is correct
either. There is a difference between Home and Business based OS's. MS has
always maintained that difference.

I regret purchasing XP Pro. I have only rarely used the "advanced"
featues of XP Pro and do NOT wish to repeat that error in judgement
with Vista, so I'm "downgrading" to a less expensive version that has
features I want and need, not those I don't. Get it yet?

This is the first time you actually gave a reason why you wanted to go to
VHP and not Ultimate. Ok, fair enough.

The issue really is why does Microsoft force customers wishing to
avoid the nightmare of a clean install to buy more expensive software
then they want or more importantly need?

I believe there are both marketing and technical aspects that figure into
certain upgrade paths. Here is another example. A user with an x86 version
of XP Pro wants to upgrade to an x64 version of Vista, any version. And
many folks are interested in x64 Vista. Just check out these newsgroups.
But it can't be done as an upgrade for technical reasons. The point is
certain upgrade paths do not allow an in place upgrade. Do folks who want
to upgrade to x64 pound and scream about it? No, actually they just realize
it's a technical issue and move on to the important point of how to get
things done.

That's like going to McDonalds wanting only a quarter pounder and they
won't sell you one unless you also buy cheese on it, a large coke and
large fries. Its absurd. NO customer would put up that kind of crap.

What's kind of absurd here is your arguement. The coke doesn't have to
match the burger in function. The analogy breaks down. And making /
selling a burger is a lot different than providing an infinitely variable
smorgasboord of software options. At some point, some where distinctions
need to be made. Ever gone into a food establishment where certain menu
items have no subsitutions allowed? You can't always get exactly what it is
you want, whether it's software or anything else.

I don't agree with some of the decisions that were made to include or not
include certain functions in some versions. Why fax is not available in the
home products I don't know, and why bit locker isn't in Business is hard to
fathom. There are others too, but the decisions were made; as a
knowledgable consumer I think you'd want to learn beforehand what options
are there and make an informed decision what to do.

has explained why I should be FORCED to pay a premium price to avoid
doing a clean install. That's simply arrogance on Microsoft's part and
I'm not too bashful to say it.

You're not forced to do anything. You mean you have no will? No ability to
make your own decisions?

That's a strawman argument. I wish to upgrade for SOME of the new
features. Hint, the ones I want, not what Microsoft attempts to force
on me by trying to push be into a more expensive upgrade. While nobody
foces me or anybody to upgrade anytime a new OS comes out, I should
have reasonable expectations that Vista has been tested so it works as
advertised on products that have received the right to display the
Vista approved or build for labels. Obviously in my case that isn't
what's happening so of course I'm pissed off. Now pretend you wouldn't
be if you were in my situation. So far I bought 2 copies of Vista and
can't install either. I should do what, jump up and down and clap my
hands for my good fortune?

Nope, if I was in your shoes I would not be happy either. The question is
who should you be unhappy with?

You obviously don't have a system with nearly 2 TB of files on it. If
you did, you would run screaming from the room if somebody told you to
do a clean install and spend the next week or two suffering through
all the problems on reinstalling all that software, validating all my
data files and again backing up that monster load. Now can you
honestly say you would? Come on, be honest!

Please, you think no one else has massive storage needs, complicated
software, critical business operations? The more involved an installation
the more you have to plan for the change, plan, test, refine, test some
more, then implement. How do you think operations with tens or hundreds of
thousands of licenses make an upgrade? It's the same principle, they plan
for it.

The whole point of a "upgrade" is to do just that... UPGRADE, not
replace. The irony is with Vista it doesn't matter, a clean install or
a upgrade in place still makes images files or so I've been told. So
the problems I'm having I STILL would have regardless how I attempt to
install Vista.

Common wisdom has held that the best option when moving to a different OS is
to do a clean installation, not an upgrade. In the case of XP, if win98 or
win2000 was running well, the upgrade to XP usually went well. Did it work
for everyone, certainly not. and some folks still adamantly counsel others
to do only a clean install for that transition. Vista is new, just
released, the experience base is nowhere near as great as the Win98 to XP
upgrade experience base is now. But you still have the two schools of
thought on this.

Yes it is a block copy, but that doesn't mean the same effects will be there
with a custom install. Migration of drivers is not an issue, migration os
softwware is not an issue. This was seen in Beta testing and in these
newsgroups. Sometimes the custom install works fine when the upgrade does
not.

I shutter to think what yet lies ahead if Vista is so
damn dumb it can uncompress the CAB files and copy itself to my root
drive,, but then get stuck. That proves it can write to the IDE drive
without problem, which is the ONLY drive it need to access. What seems
to be happening is Vista gets way ahead of itself attempts to
test/install/look for drivers it doesn't need to install. That again
is simply poor design and even worse testing. The time to update
drivers and test them is AFTER the OS is successfully installed. Not
during.

You're another guy that doesn't read half of what I said. Done all
that. Vista Upgrade agent PASSED my system and said it was safe to
install Vista. What didn't I do that I should have? The difference
between Home Premium and Business or another version is just a red
herring you're tying to dangle. The core elements are the same
regardless of version. I assumed you knew that. No?

I wouldn't call running the Upgrade Advisor (it's an Advisor, right? not a
certainty) as constituting adequate research on something as significant as
an OS upgrade. You're experienced right? Did you even go to the MS website
and look at the link and chart that describes the upgrade paths? Do a bit
of research to find out if you could, in fact, accomplish what you wanted to
accomplish? Seems to me this is a very basic thing to do for someone as
experienced as you. The link to the below listed page is on the Vista Home
page on the right side under "Upgrade to Windows Vista", "Upgrade from a
previous edition".

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradepaths.mspx

Had you read that you would have seen that XP Pro to Vista Home Premium can
only do a custom install. Ok disappointment. You can't always get what you
want. What's the next step, eh? Maybe research what options are supported
in each version, combine that with the knowledge of the upgrade paths and
come to an informed decision about what route to follow?

So do you just go out, then, and buy the copy and charge forward? No.
Common sense says to set up some means of fall back if things don't go well.
You wrote about all this data (I get the feeling your writing TB implies we
should be awed by your situation) and all this expensive software. Sounds
to me like it's important to keep that system running well, maybe not want
to take any risk it would be damaged. What happened if your infrastructure
right now was destroyed in a storm, or the light fingered folks made off
with all your computers?

So you think what can I do, you research, you ask questions. There are many
options. Backup data, redundancy, maybe even a drive imaging solution to
make images of your OS and applications drive(s) so if the OS crashes you
can quickly restore and be running.

Did you do this? Did you set up a recovery plan in case the upgrade didn't
work? In case the power went out right in the middle and the drive was
trashed? What would you do then? Whatever recovery solution you decide on
will be based on the risk tolerance. How much down time can you handle, how
easy is it to recovery software, etc.

Maybe set up a dual boot, or get a second computer to test this on before
you gamble everything on the upgrade? This is life of business stuff here,
can you afford to have problems?

Next step in the research, maybe figure out what is involved in the upgrade,
what makes it work, what have people who have done this know about the pit
falls. Then you remember hardware needs drivers, and hardware support is
the responsibility of the device manufactuer. Natural question comes to
mind, will my devices work in Vista, are there drivers for them? Do they
work, what are the experiences ofthe early migrators? Geez, maybe I should
post a question or two to a newsgroup or forum. Visit the web site for the
manufacturer, check on the drivers, check out their forums, what are the
users saying about them?

Will my software work? I'm not going to trust the word of an "Advisor"
program as gospel, check on the software makers' web sites, ask some
question, figure out where the problems are.

You'v got it all planned now, research, recovery mechanism, problems
anticipated.

So come the big day, you plunk down your money, and pop in the DVD, disaster
hits, so no big deal. Frustrating, yes, but boy am I glad I set up that
recovery scheme. I'm back up and runnnig.

Or foget all the above, Nah, I'll just run the upgrade advisor, and have at
it.

Newsgroups "like this" are amusing like political ones are often in
that the vast majority of posters don't have a clue what they're
talking about. In spite of me detail exactly the problems I've had as
ANYONE even come close to a suggestion other than take it back and
stick with XP? Well?

Interesting comment you make that "In spite of me detail exactly the
problems I've had as ANYONE even come close to a suggestion other than take
it back and stick with XP". I think I have reviewed all your posts. In one
you said you got a BSOD and gave the code, and at the end of that post you
mention nVidia display drivers, and looking at a box for the display card
that says built for Microsoft Windows Vista.

But no where in any of the posts I looked at do I see one mention of what
the computer is, what configuration, what motherboard, what chipset, how
many hard drives, how are they partitioned, are they PATA or SATA, where
was XP installed, where was Vista installed, what is the video card model,
what driver versions for the video card, for the
chipset, what software, etc, etc. You have not given one piece of useful /
relevant info except for that BSOD code.

You ranted paragraph on paragraph about your shopping ordeal, your dislike
for the Frye's manager, the amount of storage space your data takes, how
much money you spend on software, and your anger toward Microsoft, but no
info. on the problem at hand.

I don't know about you, but I surely wouldn't call that "detail exactly the
problems".

Adam, I am sorry you have had such problems. I know how good it would have
felt if everything went nicely, and the frustration when it doesn't, but
things don't always go nicely, especially in computers, and even more so
with something as significant as an upgrade to a brand new OS on untried
hardware (you haven't tried Vista on this hardware, have you?)

You have reason to be unhappy, but share some responsibility. Look at
yourself first. You did nothing to prepare for this significant upgrade.
You went into it with HUA. You didn't even spend the time to figure out if
you could in fact do the upgrade you wanted with the version of Vista you
wanted before buying it. From someone who is supposed to be experienced,
that's not saying much.

The stop error you listed was 0x0000007B. That code means
INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE

http://aumha.org/win5/kbestop.htm
0x0000007B: INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE

This link deals with the error on XP, It should be similar in Vista. I'm
not about to waste any more of my time researching that code in Vista for
you. You can do that. I think you are right, it probably is driver
related.

This is a peer to peer newsgroup. Most everyone that posts here is a
volunteer, as am I, trying to help people where we can. Occasionally an MS
employee will post but on their own. No one owes you an answer, or any
help, but if you want help I suggest you post some facts relevant to the
problem.

All things considered, had I been in your shoes, I would have at the minimum
made sure there was an archived image of the XP installation to be able to
recover quickly if things didn't work, then tried the upgrade, with the
expectation there would be problems.

Good luck to you.

 

[Eric Arbour]

You said one of the reasons you wanted VHP was because it had media
center. Then you found out that you could not do an in place upgrade to
VHP from XP Pro, so you therefore bought Vista Business. My point is -
this makes no sense, and that's why I asked the question. If you wanted
media center why go to Business when it doesn't have it? Get the
Ultimate upgrade. That is the only product that can upgrade XP Pro and
has Media Center. Of course if the issue of doing an in place upgrade
is not so important now, since your first attempt at it hasn't worked
out, then maybe you can go back to VHP, and do a custom install.

As to the forcing issue, you're not forced into anything. You made a
decision, albeit a poorly researched one, but none the less you made the
choice to buy and upgrade.


Lol..this is funny. You wanted the features of Home Premium. You found
out it couldn't do an upgrade, so you bought Business instead of
Ultimate, but Business doesn't have the feature you wanted Home Premium
for - the Media Center. So, again, if you wanted Media Center why in
the world get Business and not Ultimate? And then on top of all this
you claim you were forced into the Business edition?


The upgrade to Vista is not the first time there were restrictions on
what version could be upgraded to what version. You could not use an
upgrade version of XP Home to upgrade Windows 2000. It could only be XP
Pro. Is this only a marketing decision? I don't think so. I think
there technical issues involved. Same with going from XP Pro to VHP as
an in place upgrade. There are aspects of Pro that are incompatible with
VHP. Could MS have made it work? I don't know. But then I don't think
your analysis is correct either. There is a difference between Home and
Business based OS's. MS has always maintained that difference.


This is the first time you actually gave a reason why you wanted to go
to VHP and not Ultimate. Ok, fair enough.


I believe there are both marketing and technical aspects that figure
into certain upgrade paths. Here is another example. A user with an
x86 version of XP Pro wants to upgrade to an x64 version of Vista, any
version. And many folks are interested in x64 Vista. Just check out
these newsgroups. But it can't be done as an upgrade for technical
reasons. The point is certain upgrade paths do not allow an in place
upgrade. Do folks who want to upgrade to x64 pound and scream about
it? No, actually they just realize it's a technical issue and move on
to the important point of how to get things done.


What's kind of absurd here is your arguement. The coke doesn't have to
match the burger in function. The analogy breaks down. And making /
selling a burger is a lot different than providing an infinitely
variable smorgasboord of software options. At some point, some where
distinctions need to be made. Ever gone into a food establishment where
certain menu items have no subsitutions allowed? You can't always get
exactly what it is you want, whether it's software or anything else.

I don't agree with some of the decisions that were made to include or
not include certain functions in some versions. Why fax is not
available in the home products I don't know, and why bit locker isn't in
Business is hard to fathom. There are others too, but the decisions
were made; as a knowledgable consumer I think you'd want to learn
beforehand what options are there and make an informed decision what to do.


You're not forced to do anything. You mean you have no will? No
ability to make your own decisions?


Nope, if I was in your shoes I would not be happy either. The question
is who should you be unhappy with?


Please, you think no one else has massive storage needs, complicated
software, critical business operations? The more involved an
installation the more you have to plan for the change, plan, test,
refine, test some more, then implement. How do you think operations
with tens or hundreds of thousands of licenses make an upgrade? It's
the same principle, they plan for it.


Common wisdom has held that the best option when moving to a different
OS is to do a clean installation, not an upgrade. In the case of XP, if
win98 or win2000 was running well, the upgrade to XP usually went well.
Did it work for everyone, certainly not. and some folks still adamantly
counsel others to do only a clean install for that transition. Vista is
new, just released, the experience base is nowhere near as great as the
Win98 to XP upgrade experience base is now. But you still have the two
schools of thought on this.

Yes it is a block copy, but that doesn't mean the same effects will be
there with a custom install. Migration of drivers is not an issue,
migration os softwware is not an issue. This was seen in Beta testing
and in these newsgroups. Sometimes the custom install works fine when
the upgrade does not.


I wouldn't call running the Upgrade Advisor (it's an Advisor, right? not
a certainty) as constituting adequate research on something as
significant as an OS upgrade. You're experienced right? Did you even
go to the MS website and look at the link and chart that describes the
upgrade paths? Do a bit of research to find out if you could, in fact,
accomplish what you wanted to accomplish? Seems to me this is a very
basic thing to do for someone as experienced as you. The link to the
below listed page is on the Vista Home page on the right side under
"Upgrade to Windows Vista", "Upgrade from a previous edition".

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradepaths.mspx


Had you read that you would have seen that XP Pro to Vista Home Premium
can only do a custom install. Ok disappointment. You can't always get
what you want. What's the next step, eh? Maybe research what options
are supported in each version, combine that with the knowledge of the
upgrade paths and come to an informed decision about what route to follow?

So do you just go out, then, and buy the copy and charge forward? No.
Common sense says to set up some means of fall back if things don't go
well. You wrote about all this data (I get the feeling your writing TB
implies we should be awed by your situation) and all this expensive
software. Sounds to me like it's important to keep that system running
well, maybe not want to take any risk it would be damaged. What
happened if your infrastructure right now was destroyed in a storm, or
the light fingered folks made off with all your computers?

So you think what can I do, you research, you ask questions. There are
many options. Backup data, redundancy, maybe even a drive imaging
solution to make images of your OS and applications drive(s) so if the
OS crashes you can quickly restore and be running.

Did you do this? Did you set up a recovery plan in case the upgrade
didn't work? In case the power went out right in the middle and the
drive was trashed? What would you do then? Whatever recovery solution
you decide on will be based on the risk tolerance. How much down time
can you handle, how easy is it to recovery software, etc.

Maybe set up a dual boot, or get a second computer to test this on
before you gamble everything on the upgrade? This is life of business
stuff here, can you afford to have problems?

Next step in the research, maybe figure out what is involved in the
upgrade, what makes it work, what have people who have done this know
about the pit falls. Then you remember hardware needs drivers, and
hardware support is the responsibility of the device manufactuer.
Natural question comes to mind, will my devices work in Vista, are there
drivers for them? Do they work, what are the experiences ofthe early
migrators? Geez, maybe I should post a question or two to a newsgroup
or forum. Visit the web site for the manufacturer, check on the
drivers, check out their forums, what are the users saying about them?

Will my software work? I'm not going to trust the word of an "Advisor"
program as gospel, check on the software makers' web sites, ask some
question, figure out where the problems are.

You'v got it all planned now, research, recovery mechanism, problems
anticipated.

So come the big day, you plunk down your money, and pop in the DVD,
disaster hits, so no big deal. Frustrating, yes, but boy am I glad I
set up that recovery scheme. I'm back up and runnnig.

Or foget all the above, Nah, I'll just run the upgrade advisor, and have
at it.


Interesting comment you make that "In spite of me detail exactly the
problems I've had as ANYONE even come close to a suggestion other than
take it back and stick with XP". I think I have reviewed all your
posts. In one you said you got a BSOD and gave the code, and at the end
of that post you mention nVidia display drivers, and looking at a box
for the display card that says built for Microsoft Windows Vista.

But no where in any of the posts I looked at do I see one mention of
what the computer is, what configuration, what motherboard, what
chipset, how many hard drives, how are they partitioned, are they PATA
or SATA, where was XP installed, where was Vista installed, what is the
video card model, what driver versions for the video card, for the
chipset, what software, etc, etc. You have not given one piece of
useful / relevant info except for that BSOD code.

You ranted paragraph on paragraph about your shopping ordeal, your
dislike for the Frye's manager, the amount of storage space your data
takes, how much money you spend on software, and your anger toward
Microsoft, but no info. on the problem at hand.

I don't know about you, but I surely wouldn't call that "detail exactly
the problems".

Adam, I am sorry you have had such problems. I know how good it would
have felt if everything went nicely, and the frustration when it
doesn't, but things don't always go nicely, especially in computers, and
even more so with something as significant as an upgrade to a brand new
OS on untried hardware (you haven't tried Vista on this hardware, have
you?)

You have reason to be unhappy, but share some responsibility. Look at
yourself first. You did nothing to prepare for this significant
upgrade. You went into it with HUA. You didn't even spend the time to
figure out if you could in fact do the upgrade you wanted with the
version of Vista you wanted before buying it. From someone who is
supposed to be experienced, that's not saying much.

The stop error you listed was 0x0000007B. That code means
INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE

http://aumha.org/win5/kbestop.htm
0x0000007B: INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE

This link deals with the error on XP, It should be similar in Vista.
I'm not about to waste any more of my time researching that code in
Vista for you. You can do that. I think you are right, it probably is
driver related.

This is a peer to peer newsgroup. Most everyone that posts here is a
volunteer, as am I, trying to help people where we can. Occasionally an
MS employee will post but on their own. No one owes you an answer, or
any help, but if you want help I suggest you post some facts relevant to
the problem.

All things considered, had I been in your shoes, I would have at the
minimum made sure there was an archived image of the XP installation to
be able to recover quickly if things didn't work, then tried the
upgrade, with the expectation there would be problems.

Good luck to you.

C

 

[Guest]

Yeah I got the same issue with Vista not installing, passed the vista advisor
with no issues cant not get a complete install, just locks. Tried removing
all extra pci devices, dropping down to one stick of ram, removing usb
devices and no go.

I have heard that there are issues with sata drives and the nvida hard drive
controller.

$175 Home premium upgrade coaster or frisby now.

I think Bill Gates has bought a stack of apple shares as he knows what
people will be doing after Vista.

Mark