windows shuts down, laptop needs to rest ?!

[jameshanley39]

I have this panasonic toughbook laptop..

I know that windows xp has a feature of letting you choose whether to
restart or freeze on a crash. (checking or unchecking the
"automatically restart" box


I have run into 2 instances, where wind xp has crashed, and the laptop
has shutdown, and not turned on.

After leaving it for a while, it turned on.

In this case, after leaving it for an hour or so, it still didn't turn
on. So I unplugged the power, I let the power indicator go red - low
battery(still didn't turn on). and eventually off - no lights. And
then not long after, I plugged in and it went on!!!

One thing is for sure.. I will be setting to freeze rather than
restart.

I think when it tries to restart it screws up and shuts down, and the
power goes screwy and has to be drained.. somewhat or totally.

Is this common?

I recall Kony once saying something about needing clean power , in the
context of regular computers(with PSUs), unplugging the power and
plugging them back in. I have not encountered that though.

Is that something to do with it? what is it exactly?

(I might hacve tried plugging it in without the battery, but with this
laptop i can't access a darn thing. But that's another story)

 

[Grinder]

I have this panasonic toughbook laptop..

I know that windows xp has a feature of letting you choose whether to
restart or freeze on a crash. (checking or unchecking the
"automatically restart" box


I have run into 2 instances, where wind xp has crashed, and the laptop
has shutdown, and not turned on.

After leaving it for a while, it turned on.

In this case, after leaving it for an hour or so, it still didn't turn
on. So I unplugged the power, I let the power indicator go red - low
battery(still didn't turn on). and eventually off - no lights. And
then not long after, I plugged in and it went on!!!

One thing is for sure.. I will be setting to freeze rather than
restart.

I think when it tries to restart it screws up and shuts down, and the
power goes screwy and has to be drained.. somewhat or totally.

Is this common?

I recall Kony once saying something about needing clean power , in the
context of regular computers(with PSUs), unplugging the power and
plugging them back in. I have not encountered that though.

Is that something to do with it? what is it exactly?

(I might hacve tried plugging it in without the battery, but with this
laptop i can't access a darn thing. But that's another story)

Are you certain the the laptop crashed, then shutdown? Could it have
*just* shutdown. If the machine is overheating, it will shutdown and
the automatic restart options will have no bearing.

My guess is that the processor's cooling mechanism is not working as
well as it once was, perhaps from an accumulation of dust, and
contributes to an overheat when your processor is working particularly hard.

It could also be a goofy power supply, as there seem to be no limit to
the weird behaviors you can get from them.

 

[jameshanley39]

Are you certain the the laptop crashed, then shutdown?  Could it have
*just* shutdown.  If the machine is overheating, it will shutdown and
the automatic restart options will have no bearing.

sure enough - that it shutdown because of a crash.. So in that sense,
crashed then shutdown.

event viewer concurred.. I am quite familiar with windows xp. I won't
go into detail here about those win xp aspects.. but first time I
cured the cdrom errors in event viewer and it stopped shutting down.
Second time it shutdown after I messed around trying to see how long a
folder name could be. I guess that windows installation is very very
sensitive for some reason. red cross style errors in event viewer
might have concurred, like not finding some file or folder.. The
checkbox was set to restart too.. As oppose to just freezing.
These times it shutdown were related to crashes.. the first time
certainly. The second time , I would say certainly enough, given the
first time!

I don't think cpu overheating is an issue.. I am familiar with that
too, detecting it.. I haven't really monitored it much. I just don't
think it is... If it was then there isn't much to discuss.. No
mysteries there. It is a ULV processor (so very low power) - passive
heatsink -.fanless.

I am familiar with overheating issues anyway.. I usually monitor
temp.. I doubt it was overheating. And I don't really want to question
about that here since that subject is nothing new to me.

It could also be a goofy power supply, as there seem to be no limit to
the weird behaviors you can get from them

can you elaborate?

and can you test for that kind of thing? (I know there are tests with
a multimeter that can catch if a regular sized PSU is bad)

Remember, this is an ACDC adaptor, not a PSU with loads of voltage
"rails". So it's a much simpler device.

I really think the letting the power out completely so the lights went
off, then plugging it in, fixed it. It did not turn on when the light
was red for low battery. I am interested in exploring that option -
if anybody else has had that, if they know what is going on
electronically.

 

[jameshanley39]

While overheating is possible, I would tend to suspect a bad
PSU or mainboard thus far,

IMO it was a foolish error on MS' part to have a
system restart on error, especially if it were a recoverable
error nobody should want to lose anything else and if it
weren't, one would want to see the error screen instead of
having the problematic condition continue.  Maybe for an
unattended server it makes more sense but we're not talking
about a server OS.

- the error is listed in event viewer anyway.. (perhaps not the whole
error though. maybe the blue screen that can appear when it freezes,
has more and better or other info)

- these crashes that cause a restart, would otherwise cause a complete
freeze. Even the computer clock stops. They are never recoverable.
except by restarting the comp. But it is preferable to have a freeze,
because at least then
a)if a blue screen appears you can read it
b)if you want to keep what is on the screen , maybe jot it down on
paper! you can. Before turning it off! It is ruder for windows to
just restart out of nowhere.

(though as you suggest, maybe if it is dedicated to running a server,
automatic restart is good)

With a typical desktop PSU, if the PSU goes out of spec and
shuts down, it may need reset by keeping AC power unplugged
for a few seconds - typically up to a dozen.  A laptop power
brick might also need unplugged, but does not have as
sophisticated a safeguard.  IF you do end up suspecting the
PSU, a good start is measuring the voltage levels with a
multimeter, though doing so with an equivalent load as the
laptop would cause is a bit more fiddly, needing to rig
something up or have access to the inside of the laptop
while it's running to take a measurement.

How can I do this.. I would like to do this without pulling it apart -
not tearing off cable jacket etc.

I vaguely recall doing something like that before.. not pulling it
apart. Might have required 2 gender changers on the end of the plug.
One to make it female, another to make it male again. And that metal
contact was enough for me to use as contact for my multimeter.

But to know what size gender changers I needed.. That was a problem. I
might have had another ACDC adaptor - a universal one, with a bunch of
plugs and sizes specified. so I could see what size I needed.
<snip>

I cannot do the other tests you suggest..

Regarding the hard drive. I cannot reach the hard drive in the laptop,
without taking a drill to it..And I don't want to risk that, I haven't
done it before. I have a head screwed screw in there. I have so
little control over this laptop I don't really even want to risk
wiping it, or reinstalling windows on it. 'cos I cannot even remove
it. I won't even be running diagnostic software on it.. I have no
plan of replacing the hard drive or playing with it.

I do not have the electronics background to change capacitors. And the
like.


Really though, I don't suspect the PSU.. But it would be nice to test
it anyway..

I suspect some motherboard issue that causes it to respond badly
(shutdown and not respond! )to all charge currently in the battery..
After a so-called "automatic restart" !!!!

If I could have removed the battery and tried it, I would have. Idealy
test the battery from the outside somehow. But that may also require
the drill to get to it. Not only is there a headless screw, it is
also a very very compactly designed laptop. the hard drive for
example, is not under some little panel somewhere.
Not all panasonic toughbooks are like this.. But mine has the hard
drive in a funny place, and non standard RAM. (and makes a high noise
from time to time, which for some reason doesn't drive me insane)

 

[GT]

I have this panasonic toughbook laptop..

I know that windows xp has a feature of letting you choose whether to
restart or freeze on a crash. (checking or unchecking the
"automatically restart" box


I have run into 2 instances, where wind xp has crashed, and the laptop
has shutdown, and not turned on.

After leaving it for a while, it turned on.

In this case, after leaving it for an hour or so, it still didn't turn
on. So I unplugged the power, I let the power indicator go red - low
battery(still didn't turn on). and eventually off - no lights. And
then not long after, I plugged in and it went on!!!

Can't you just unplug the mains, remove the laptop battery for a couple of
seconds, then plug it all in again and power on?

 

[jameshanley39]

Can't you just unplug the mains, remove the laptop battery for a couple of
seconds, then plug it all in again and power on?-

or if it can power on without a battery (I don't know much about
laptops.. maybe they can?)

Anyhow, I did say in my first post
"
(I might have tried plugging it in without the battery, but with this
laptop i can't access a darn thing. But that's another story)
"

I can't access a darn thing, and that includes the battery.

 

[jameshanley39]

How is the cable constructed?  I had made myself a pair of
probe tips for my meter that have needles soldered onto them
with which I can easily  pierce wire insulation, making only
a tiny hole that's a negligable damage to the cable, but
that's not useful if the cable is somewhat coax in design.

Another alternative would be if the power brick itself can
be opened, you would (very carefully, there's somewhere in
the neighborhood of 170-500V inside one) put the meter
probes on the output, the solder spots where the wire is
attached to the PCB.

The other question was whether it equally happens running
from battery, perhaps you mentioned that below but if the
battery is installed, charged, and the laptop still does
this with both the AC power and battery connected I would
suspect a mainboard or drive problem rather than power.




Yes something like that would also work, or if it's a
standard connector you could construct a pass-through that
just has a female socket on one end and a male plug on the
other, exposing metal to get a reading.






Well I don't know what to say... if it's the hard drive
having trouble it could be unavoidable.  Run the
manufacturer's diagnostics on it.

Sometimes you can get a screw out with an "EZ Out" which is
a screw extractor which grips the head.   If the screw is
flush with the surface then cutting a deeper slot into it
with a dremel cutoff wheel is another option.


If that's what it takes to resolve a problem, you'll be
stuck without doing so.  What did the Event Viewer error(s)
state?




Perhaps, but it's not very difficult and if you were to see
any then you know what the problem is, can stop looking and
decide whether it's worth the cost to have a professional
repair it - or you might know someone with good soldering
skills.


One question is whether the error(s) in windows happen as a
source of the problem, or if the problem is instability and
that crashes causing the errors right before shutting down.
If the errors are random that would seem more plausible
rather than same exact error over and over.





Sometimes a hammer is the only way.  ;-)

I may try the connector with male one end and female other end.. if
they are sold! otherwise - 2 gender changers.

I won't touch inside of the ACDC adaptor.. Safer with the DC outside
the ACDC adaptor - comp end, than the AC inside and going into it from
the mains.

Interestingly, a prof friend said DC is more dangerous than AC. But no
doubt since it is lower amps, it is safer.

Regarding the errors in event viewer. Yes, they were not random, but
specifically related to something I could deal with. Very specific
things and probably to how my windows installation is uniquely screwy.
I won't bore people with details. It's windows related, and
furthermore, nobody benefits.

The EZ thing is a drill bit isn't it?

The screw is sunk into the thing.. I could find a dremel like thing, a
thing with - at the end of it - a round sandpaper like circular
thing . But if I drill too far into the panel until I hit the screw,
I may hit a circuit.
It's called a toughbook, but my one looks a bit fragile to me!!

It's actually second hand and has a hole in the side anyway! where
somebody seems to have succeeded in ripping out what might have been a
VGA connector.. ! so maybe it was tough once upon a time.

 

[GT]

Can't you just unplug the mains, remove the laptop battery for a couple of
seconds, then plug it all in again and power on?-

or if it can power on without a battery (I don't know much about
laptops.. maybe they can?)

[GT] - Yes, they can run on mains or battery.

I can't access a darn thing, and that includes the battery.

[GT] - I am only aware of 1 laptop where you can't get to the battery and
that is the new apple thing. Why can't you unplug/access the battery? If you
always have to wait for the battery to run down before you can get it to
reboot (following a problem), then that is a bit of a design fault - have
you contacted the manufacturers about this?

 

[GT]

@yahoo.co.uk" <[email protected]>
wrote:

[snip]

Interestingly, a prof friend said DC is more dangerous than AC. But no
doubt since it is lower amps, it is safer.

[GT] - That depends on the power involved, but basically... DC causes your
muscles to tense and won't let go, so with a strong enough power, you would
be stuck to the source and constantly electricuted. AC causes your muscles
to contract and let go rapidly (25 times a second), so you are thrown clear
of the power source.