Why Do Hard Drives Have to Be Formatted?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mute Fan
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Mute Fan

I'm a computer school dropout. I would like to know why hard drives
have to be formatted once you change them, if modern hard drives are
formatted at the factory. I've asked this question of the instructor
who did not know how to format the drives once our class replaced
them. He didn't answer.

I've read my textbook, and it says hard drives come formatted from the
factory. Is it a matter of getting them used to the interface you're
using and the other stuff in the CPU?

Hope this doesn't make anyone laugh. Thanks. I would also appreciate
hearing about sites or forums where elementary-level questions like
this are routinely entertained.
 
Mute Fan said:
I'm a computer school dropout. I would like to know why hard drives
have to be formatted once you change them, if modern hard drives are
formatted at the factory. I've asked this question of the instructor
who did not know how to format the drives once our class replaced
them. He didn't answer.
Click to expand...

Maybe he was just dumbstruck by the stupidity of the question. ;-)
I've read my textbook, and it says hard drives come formatted from the
factory.
Click to expand...

Yup. Except that there are two types of formatting:

Low Level Formatting, the division of the drive into sectors of a
specific size. This is the Factory Format.
IDE drives have a fixed 512 byte sector Format. SCSI also come
512 byte sectored but can be reformatted into other size sectors.

And File System Formatting, the divison of a volume (partition) into
clusters and putting the FileSystem administrative structures on it.

Between the two is also partitioning, the division of a harddrive in seve-
ral(or just one) part, creating logical disks on a single physical diskdrive.
The partitions can then be formatted for different file systems.
Is it a matter of getting them used to the interface you're
using and the other stuff in the CPU?

Hope this doesn't make anyone laugh. Thanks. I would also appreciate
hearing about sites or forums where elementary-level questions like
this are routinely entertained.
Click to expand...

www.pcguide.com or www.storagereview.com
http://www.harddiskinfo.com/Sections/FAQ/List_Categories.asp
 
Mute Fan said:
I'm a computer school dropout. I would like to know why hard drives
have to be formatted once you change them, if modern hard drives are
formatted at the factory. I've asked this question of the instructor
who did not know how to format the drives once our class replaced
them. He didn't answer.

I've read my textbook, and it says hard drives come formatted from the
factory. Is it a matter of getting them used to the interface you're
using and the other stuff in the CPU?

Hope this doesn't make anyone laugh. Thanks. I would also appreciate
hearing about sites or forums where elementary-level questions like
this are routinely entertained.
Click to expand...

Hard drives do not come formatted from the factory.They do not because they
can be used with several different OS'es.
You format the drive to work with the OS you want to use.
Adysthemic
 
What Microsoft calls formatting is not. They renamed the CPM "init" command to
"format".

Everyone else calls it initializing a file system (FAT,NTFS), preceeded by an
optional bad-sector verify pass.
 
There is a low level formatting done on all drives at the factory.
Then there is a second formatting, like FAT16, FAT32, NTFS, Mac OS, etc.
 
Previously Eric Gisin said:
What Microsoft calls formatting is not. They renamed the CPM "init"
command to "format".
Click to expand...
Everyone else calls it initializing a file system (FAT,NTFS),
preceeded by an optional bad-sector verify pass.
Click to expand...

In the UNIX-world it is called file system creation, often done
with a tool called mkfs.<filesystem type> or a variant of this.

Just another example of MS ignoring what is already there/defined
and works well. There was no good reason at all to cause this
confusion.

Other example: For floppy disks the MS worlds usually combines
formatting (creation of physical sectors) and filesystem creation.
On e.g. Linux these steps are separate. "fdformat" will do the
formating. Then you can create e.g. a FAT filesystem with
"mkdosfs", an ext2 filesystem wuth mkfs.ext2 or some other
filesystem you like on the floppy. You can also use it raw,
without filesystem, although that limits you to sequential
access, just like a tape.

Arno
 
And File System Formatting, the divison of a volume (partition) into
clusters and putting the FileSystem administrative structures on it.

Between the two is also partitioning, the division of a harddrive in seve-
ral(or just one) part, creating logical disks on a single physical diskdrive.
The partitions can then be formatted for different file systems.
Click to expand...

As I said, I know my question is elementary. I've been reading the
pcguide site for awhile now and finally understand interfaces; I'm
just trying to teach myself what @3,000USD didn't get me this fall
semester.

The sites below are all really good; I just checked out the third one.
But I'd like to ask questions even more elementary than what's on
them. I'd like to know why a drive has to be partitioned in the first
place, for example, or if I can use one operating system on one
partition and another on the second. I'd like to know how a disk's
volume can be controlled (can it? is 'control' even the right verb?)
and why you'd want to do "this."

A fellow student finally taught my class how to format the hard drive
(then quit like me and shipped out to Iraq). Please don't feel
obliged to answer if my stupidity offends you. And thanks to everyone
who told me the difference between what my textbook (obviously a MS
shill) calls formatting and what formatting actually is.
 
Adysthemic said:
Hard drives do not come formatted from the factory.They do not because they
can be used with several different OS'es.
You format the drive to work with the OS you want to use.
Adysthemic
Click to expand...

Some drives did come with format's on them in the past..
Other drives came with the floppy to do the format (but how were those
drives tested with no format)
 
As I said, I know my question is elementary. I've
been reading the pcguide site for awhile now and
finally understand interfaces; I'm just trying to teach
myself what @3,000USD didn't get me this fall semester.
Click to expand...
The sites below are all really good; I just checked out
the third one. But I'd like to ask questions even more
elementary than what's on them. I'd like to know why a
drive has to be partitioned in the first place, for example,
Click to expand...

Partitioning allows a single physical drive to have
more than one drive at the logical level on it.
or if I can use one operating system on
one partition and another on the second.
Click to expand...

Yes, thats one reason to partition a physical drive.
I'd like to know how a disk's volume can
be controlled (can it? is 'control' even the
right verb?) and why you'd want to do "this."
Click to expand...

Not clear what you mean by 'control'. If
you mean control access to a volume, yes.
A fellow student finally taught my class how to format the hard
drive (then quit like me and shipped out to Iraq). Please don't
feel obliged to answer if my stupidity offends you. And thanks to
everyone who told me the difference between what my textbook
(obviously a MS shill) calls formatting and what formatting actually is.
Click to expand...

That was overstated. With any technology thats relatively
immature, words get used differently quite a bit of the time.
Its completely silly to claim that MS hasnt got a clue.
 
rstlne said:
Some drives did come with format's on them in the past..
Other drives came with the floppy to do the format (but how were those
drives tested with no format)
Click to expand...

Drives dont have to be formatted at the OS level to be
tested. A diagnostic can test a drive at the sector level.
 
Mute Fan said:
As I said, I know my question is elementary. I've been reading the
pcguide site for awhile now and finally understand interfaces; I'm
just trying to teach myself what @3,000USD didn't get me this fall
semester.

The sites below are all really good; I just checked out the third one.
But I'd like to ask questions even more elementary than what's on
them.
Click to expand...
I'd like to know why a drive has to be partitioned in the first place,
for example,
Click to expand...

Well, it shouldn't but it is the reality, though a single partition is just
cordonning off a very small part (a single logical track worth) that
contains the partitions table and bootcode.

However, additional drives can be declared removable (in Windows)
and formatted like a large floppy drive (no partitioning).
Unfortunately, such a drive will only be recognized under Windows
or if I can use one operating system on one partition and another on
the second.
Click to expand...

That's the idea.
I'd like to know how a disk's volume can be controlled (can it?
is 'control' even the right verb?) and why you'd want to do "this."
Click to expand...

Depends on how you define 'control'.
Yes, there are utilities that can make partitions invisible or change the
partition type such as PowerQuest's Partition Table Editor, PTEdit.

You can find out more about what's what on Hale Landis's website,
www.atapi.com.
 
Rod Speed said:
Partitioning allows a single physical drive to have
more than one drive at the logical level on it.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Tech whizzes don't realize how beginners profit from
simple declarative sentences like this. On another newsgroup, I asked
what removing files or programs "by hand" meant. It took fifteen
responses before someone wrote "removing files 'by hand' means
removing the pointers to these files found in the Registry." I
finally understood a phrase that every computer repair guy I've ever
taken a computer to meant.
That was overstated. With any technology thats relatively
immature, words get used differently quite a bit of the time.
Its completely silly to claim that MS hasnt got a clue.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it was immature. The guy who created PCGuide is kind of a saint
in my book because he offers so much information and arcana for free.
But after reading all the responses to my original question, I see I
need to get much more conversant with certain terms and concepts. If
anyone can recommend a book that concentrates solely on hard drives
(IDES, I suppose, not SCSI's), I'd appreciate learning titles here.
 
Arno Wagner said:
Other example: For floppy disks the MS worlds usually combines
formatting (creation of physical sectors) and filesystem creation.
On e.g. Linux these steps are separate. "fdformat" will do the
formating. Then you can create e.g. a FAT filesystem with
"mkdosfs", an ext2 filesystem wuth mkfs.ext2 or some other
filesystem you like on the floppy. You can also use it raw,
without filesystem, although that limits you to sequential
access, just like a tape.
Click to expand...

That, I did not know.
 
That, I did not know.
Click to expand...

So your day was worthwhile since you learned something... ;-)

Actually it is a consequence of the UNIX way of seeing every pice of
storage hardware as a sequential device ("character device") and only
some things in addition as seekabke device ("block device").

Arno
 
Mute Fan said:
Thank you.
Click to expand...

Oh? It didn't even answer your question.
Tech whizzes don't realize how beginners profit from
simple declarative sentences like this.
Click to expand...

Some people would now ask what 'at the logical level' is supposed to mean.
So then, what was wrong with my explanation?
On another newsgroup, I asked what removing files or programs "by hand"
meant. It took fifteen responses before someone wrote "removing files
'by hand' means removing the pointers to these files found in the Registry."
Click to expand...

Pity that the other responses were probably right as this one sure wasn't.
I finally understood a phrase that every computer repair guy I've ever
taken a computer to meant.
Click to expand...

Weird. And that's not limited to that sentence alone.
 
Thank you.
Oh? It didn't even answer your question.


Some people would now ask what 'at the logical level' is supposed to mean.
So then, what was wrong with my explanation?
Registry."

Pity that the other responses were probably right as this one sure wasn't.


Weird. And that's not limited to that sentence alone.
Click to expand...


LOL..
Take a Deep Breath IN......
Release....

It'll help :)
 
Folkert Rienstra said:
"Mute Fan" wrote
Click to expand...
Some people would now ask what 'at the logical level' is supposed to mean.
So then, what was wrong with my explanation?
Click to expand...

I didn't imply criticism of yours at all. But you've called me stupid
and now weird. That kind of hurts, you know? You're so fortunate
that you know so much. Your explanation helped me differentiate the
concepts of "drive," "volume," and "partition." I don't think I'm the
only novice computer technology student/hobbyist who may have trouble
distinguishing between these largely conceptual traits of hard drives.

I never ridicule people who can't distinguish a predicate nominative
from a participle. I just want to learn something, okay?
Pity that the other responses were probably right as this one sure wasn't.
Click to expand...

How was that answer wrong? Would you mind telling me? (And if you
mind, hey, don't bother, dude.)
Weird. And that's not limited to that sentence alone.
Click to expand...

Well, even though you think I'm weird, I'm going to post an old
warning that came with a 233 Gateway, and if anyone can tell me the
answer to Why a 2.2 GB hard drive has (had?) to be partitioned, TIA:

"Large Capacity Hard Drive Partitioning"

"Your system has been shipped with a 2.2GB or larger capacity hard
drive installed. Due to certain limitations with current operating
system software (both MS-DOS and Windows 95), this hard drive must be
partitioned into two sections. This partitioning allows you to access
the maximum capacity of the drive in two sections. The first
partition is indicated by the C:\ prompt on your system, and the
second partition is indicated by the D:\ prompt.

If you have a sytem that uses the Windows NT operating system, it was
set at the factory so that it uses the FAT file system for your hard
drive. YOu can change the FAT to the NTFS by following instructions
given in the [manual]. USING THE NTFS ALLOWS WINDOWS NT TO ACCESS ALL
HARD DRIVE SPACE AS ONE PARTITION.

The current limitaitons of certain operating systems to recognize a
2.2GB or larger capacity hard drive in its entirety is an
industry-wide phenomenon, and it is not unique to Gateway 2000
systems."

What is (was) so special about 2.2GB?
 
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