Why ask every time? An unidentified program bla...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Guest
  • Start date Start date
G

Guest

Sorry but this is very annoying. Installed a program witch needs more then
the normal access (like drivers etc.). Get the question at first startup and
say its ok, I know the program. Ok thats good, but...

You see I install and configure as admin but I'm working(!) with the normal
user account. That is the way to do things. Everybody knows this ;-). So now
I get the question every time and I know its a good and harmeless program.
You know I've installed it!

Looked and checked the administrator thing, no change, looked at defender
and find none.

Isn't there a (easy, not the manifest thing) way to say Hey Vista it's my
computer and I installed this program so from now on you don't ask me for my
credentials anymore, yes!

Would be nice.
 
Hello,

Unfortunately, the program will need to be changed by the manufacturer in
order to allow this. With UAC enabled, there is no way a program can run
with administrator permission without prompting you for permission.
 
This is not about UAC asking permission to perform an administrative action,
it's about Vista asking 'do you want to run this program' every single time -
you should be able to say 'yes' or 'no' AND 'Don't ask me again.

This looks to me like MS is doing a self protection thing again - this is
not about security, it's about MS saying to developers 'you have to do what
we want or we'll make life difficult for you'. How do developers stop this
happening - do you have to use 'official' MS development tools by chance?
 
This looks to me like MS is doing a self protection thing again - this is
not about security, it's about MS saying to developers 'you have to do
what
we want or we'll make life difficult for you'. How do developers stop this
happening - do you have to use 'official' MS development tools by chance?
Click to expand...

You are incorrect.

The reason you cannot "always" run a program as an administrator is for a
very GOOD reason - and it is to protect the USER, not microsoft.

If you think about it a little bit, you will understand. The purpose of UAC
is to ensure that programs cannot run with admin permissions without user
consent. Allowing a program to ALWAYS run with admin permission without
prompting the user creates a security vulnerability, because Windows does
not know the difference between the USER starting a program and a PROGRAM
starting a program. (This specific issue has been discussed in depth in
other threads - solving this problem is NOT TRIVIAL).

In practice, allowing a USER to always run a program as admin *ALSO* allows
any non-privileged (possibly rogue) program to run PRIVILIGED programs that
the user has approved.

So far, nobody in this forum has came up with a solution that would allow
ONLY the USER to run elevated programs that bypass UAC, but NOT programs.
The closest we have came would be allowing this UAC bypass feature for
programs started from the Start menu / Desktop / Explorer windows only, but
in allowing this behavior there are serious negative security consequences
making this solution impractical.

So, if Windows cannot tell the difference between a user starting a program
and a program starting a program, then ...

If the "always run as admin" behavior was implemented, then a rogue program
would be able to start a program with this attribute set and then trick this
program into performing privileged actions on its behalf.

Imagine the case where a user has set the command prompt to always run as
admin - I'm sure this would be a common scenario, since most users that use
the command prompt probably do so to perform administrative functions. Now,
with this scenario set up, any rogue program would be able to start the
command prompt, which runs with admin privileges without prompting, and say
pass it an argument telling it to format the hard drive. The rogue program
has effectively bypassed UAC by proxy - it is using other programs to
effectively carry out the functions that it is unable to do directly.

If Microsoft were to have enabled this "always run as admin" behavior as you
suggest, they would have shipped Windows Vista with a HUGE security flaw, as
I have described, which, by the time Vista hits store shelves, would have
been exploited by malware authors, and the security afforded by UAC by that
time would pale in comparison to that which it offers now.
 
This discussion is not about running a program as an administrator. I agree
with Jimmy about that. Ordinary users do not normally run programs as an
administrator, so this has to be secured. But…

1) Sometimes I need programs that are not frequently upgraded. It means I
have to long to wait before I can use it with Vista. Also I don’t think it’s
the right way to say “hey, if you will use this program, that is running good
in XP, in Vista it need updatedâ€. I’m not talking about a win 98 program.
2) I will not turn off UAC. I think its good feature.
3) DF is right. It’s about asking over and over again without the
possibility to say “Don’t ask me againâ€.

I do not (and do not need to or want to) run this program as administrator.
I only checked the admin checkbox to see if this is a way to lose the
returning question. It did nothing so I turned off again.

By the way, if I run this program under an account with administrator rights
(not the administrator) the question is also there every time only I do not
have to provide my credentials. As an ordinary user I have a choice between
providing the credentials for this user or providing administrator
credentials. Either way, it makes no difference in running the program. So
what’s the use?
 
Also I don’t think it’s
the right way to say “hey, if you will use this program, that is running
good
in XP, in Vista it need updatedâ€.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this is the case a lot of times. :)
3) DF is right. It’s about asking over and over again without the
possibility to say “Don’t ask me againâ€.
I do not (and do not need to or want to) run this program as
administrator.
I only checked the admin checkbox to see if this is a way to lose the
returning question. It did nothing so I turned off again.
Click to expand...

So, if I (now) understand correctly ... the program is prompting, and you do
NOT want it to pompt because you do NOT want to run it as an administrator?

I don't think I've ran accross this problem before. If the program was
DESIGNED for Vista, it should have a manifest telling Windows to always run
it as an administrator (and this would be the correct behavior, since you
have to assume the application knows what it's talking about); however, if
it was NOT designed for Vista (as should be the case), it should NOT
automatically prompt you.

Try this:

- right-click your program's .exe file
- click properties
- click compatability
- click Show settings for all users
- Make sure the run as admin box is unchecked
- Click OK twice
 
Jimmy Brush said:
Unfortunately, this is the case a lot of times. :)
Click to expand...
Yes I know, but it will be a long time from now until all programs run
smoothly in Vista. Das this mean we will live for some years with prompting
programs? Administrators will soon banned UAC.
So, if I (now) understand correctly ... the program is prompting, and you do
NOT want it to pompt because you do NOT want to run it as an administrator?
Click to expand...

Yep! I don’t mind the prompt (once!) if necessary and no, I do not want to
run this program as an administrator.
I don't think I've ran accross this problem before. If the program was
DESIGNED for Vista, it should have a manifest telling Windows to always run
it as an administrator (and this would be the correct behavior, since you
have to assume the application knows what it's talking about); however, if
it was NOT designed for Vista (as should be the case), it should NOT
automatically prompt you.
Click to expand...

Officiously the program is not (right now) designed for Vista but that
doesn’t mean it will have to prompt me every start. It only complains about
an unidentified program from an unidentified publisher. Well let me identify
and work with it.
Try this:
Click to expand...
- right-click your program's .exe file
- click properties
- click compatability
- click Show settings for all users
- Make sure the run as admin box is unchecked
- Click OK twice
Click to expand...

I have. Did not work. Still prompted every start as user including typing
the password as well as administrator without having to provide a password

Maybe it has something to do with the fact I start the computer with hitting
F8 to allow unsigned drivers (is this the only way to allow unsigned drivers
to be running?)? Because this is also necessary to be able to run the program.
 
I think that for large corporations that they can create a manifest for a
program and sign it with their key to permit it to run more easily. Most
will require that the provider seperate the admin requiring functions from
the normal usage.

Just think about the major shifts that have occured in the Apple market.
Complete changes of the operating system and multiple processor changes. I
think a complete shift might assist the Windows world in many ways, but
Microsoft is afraid that it might allow their customers to see the
possibilities of Apple and Linux.
 
Peerke said:
3) DF is right. It's about asking over and
over again without the possibility to say "Don't ask me again".
Click to expand...

Because, of course, if a 'don't ask me again' mechanism existed, it
definately wouldn't be the first thing that virus, trojan, worm and spyware
writers exploited as soon as they got you to run their installer, would it?
 
I Couldn't get Jimmy's instruction at the bottom of his post to do anything
as the box was not ticked in the first place.
However, it did work after I first ticked the "run as admin" box. and exited
the properties dialog and tried to run the offending program which of course
was not allowed to start up.
I then redid Jimmy's instructions and unticked the "run as admin" box and
hey presto my unidentified program started up.
I haven't tried doing a restart yet - but let's not spoil the joy of the
moment with such trivia.

Best of Luck - denlong (Devon UK)
 
I use a number of small unsigned utilities for overclocking and monitoring
that all needed to be rid of the dreaded pop-up. Besides the admin rights,
going to the main properties page for the .exe, clearing the read-only box
and clicking the UNBLOCK box at the bottom that usually exists for unsigned
apps fixed them all. Just to be sure, I did the same for the few .sys and
..dll that had the UNBLOCK button associated with these utils. It worked and
I have no idea why I never noticed this before. Good hunting.
 
I haven't tried doing a restart yet - but let's not spoil the joy of the
moment with such trivia.

Best of Luck - denlong (Devon UK)
Click to expand...

Just to let you know it is still working after several start-ups.

Denlong
 
Back
Top