Who owns a UPS (Uninterrupted Power Supply)?

  • Thread starter Thread starter RayLopez99
  • Start date Start date
R

RayLopez99

I do, living in Greece where the power gets cut off frequently for a
few seconds to a few minutes every few days. They say it's the fault
of the building I'm in, though the power company also has brownouts
all the time.

Who else?

RL
 
I do. The power here (N. California) may cut once or twice a year in a
winter storm. More than that, the UPS smooths out voltage fluctations
caused by high-power appliances in the home turning on: a laser printer
and shop air compressor, both unfortunately on the same circuit as my
desktop computer.

Speaking of UPSs, mine (a consumer grade APC model) probably should have
the battery replaced. I don't want to pay the exorbitant cost of an APC
battery, it's just lead-acid after all. Would a car (12v) or motorcycle
(6v) battery, wired in place of the APC battery, do just as well? More
capacity (on-battery computer life) for less money.
 
Speaking of UPSs, mine (a consumer grade APC model) probably should have
the battery replaced. I don't want to pay the exorbitant cost of an APC
battery, it's just lead-acid after all. Would a car (12v) or motorcycle
(6v) battery, wired in place of the APC battery, do just as well? More
capacity (on-battery computer life) for less money.
Click to expand...

Absoultely not. All batteries are not created equal. A vehicle battery
is not designed to be discharged completely, it is designed to provide a
high current discharge for a few seconds. Addtionally the charging
characteristics of a starting battery are different than one made for
deep discharges. Using a battery not designed for the UPS will at best,
damage the UPS and battery over time, or at worst, start a fire.
 
I do. The power here (N. California) may cut once or twice a year in a
winter storm. More than that, the UPS smooths out voltage fluctations
caused by high-power appliances in the home turning on: a laser printer
and shop air compressor, both unfortunately on the same circuit as my
desktop computer.

Speaking of UPSs, mine (a consumer grade APC model) probably should have
the battery replaced. I don't want to pay the exorbitant cost of an APC
battery, it's just lead-acid after all. Would a car (12v) or motorcycle
(6v) battery, wired in place of the APC battery, do just as well? More
capacity (on-battery computer life) for less money.
Click to expand...

First, it's not "just lead-acid", it's gel-cell which is a lead acid,
but definitely different from a car battery. You can by replacement
gel-cell batteries from sources other than APC, for less money. Just
open the unit and read the specs from the unit. Some APC units come
with 2 6v cells wired in series, others with a single 12v, so be sure
the model you order will physically fit the unit.

I don't think a car or motorcycle battery would damage the unit, or
cause a fire (as long as it was connected properly), but there are
other issues. Hydrogen gas is released when those cells are charged...
if in an enclosed location, that could be a problem. Also, there's the
possibility of acid spillage. Also, notice the corrosion that usually
occurs on a car battery's terminal... would you really want that
inside your APC unit, or your house?
 
david said:
Absoultely not. All batteries are not created equal. A vehicle battery
is not designed to be discharged completely, it is designed to provide a
high current discharge for a few seconds. Addtionally the charging
characteristics of a starting battery are different than one made for
deep discharges. Using a battery not designed for the UPS will at best,
damage the UPS and battery over time, or at worst, start a fire.
Click to expand...

OK. Still, what about replacing the APC battery with a bigger one (both
physically and electrically) so I get longer capacity without having to
buy a new UPS? Seems a cheap way to get a longer offline battery life.
 
I do. The power here (N. California) may cut once or twice a year in a
winter storm. More than that, the UPS smooths out voltage fluctations
caused by high-power appliances in the home turning on: a laser printer
and shop air compressor, both unfortunately on the same circuit as my
desktop computer.

Speaking of UPSs, mine (a consumer grade APC model) probably should have
the battery replaced. I don't want to pay the exorbitant cost of an APC
battery, it's just lead-acid after all.
Click to expand...

It's not "just".
Would a car (12v) or motorcycle
(6v) battery, wired in place of the APC battery, do just as well?
More capacity (on-battery computer life) for less money.
Click to expand...

No!
 
I live in Los Angeles, CA, and I have two UPSes - both made by APC
and one 8 years older than the other. The power in the area went out for
an hour a couple weeks ago, and the power from the older UPS cut out
almost immediately. I put a new Yuasa battery from Pacific Battery
(in Oceanside, CA) and the UPS works like new again. Apparently, UPS
batteries don't last for 10 years, even if kept fully charged. Duh... :-)
Click to expand...

3-5 years is normal.
 
Speaking of UPSs, mine (a consumer grade APC model) probably should have
the battery replaced. I don't want to pay the exorbitant cost of an APC
battery, it's just lead-acid after all. Would a car (12v) or motorcycle
(6v) battery, wired in place of the APC battery, do just as well?  More
capacity (on-battery computer life) for less money.
Click to expand...

When my APC model battery exploded from old age (it literally puffed
up the case) the local PC guy kept the innards and switched just the
battery part, and saved me something like 30%. Don't know how he did
it, but he did, so it's doable. Maybe he had a spare battery from
another APC unit, though he claims he sent for a new one at the
factory. And the 'repaired' APC works fine. ...the stats say "two
blackouts in the last week" - nice.

RL
 
10 min of backup built into the computer would solve this problem.  I
am guessing it would cost much less than a UPS and fix 90% of the
problem.

It doesn't exist of course, but I think it would be a good idea.
Click to expand...

Don't follow what you are saying, but I guess you're saying a computer
should have automatic UPS built in? As for data backups, I do that
every week and on every major s/w change.

UPS has been a lifesaver here in GR.

RL
 
Metspitzer said:
10 min of backup built into the computer would solve this problem. I
am guessing it would cost much less than a UPS and fix 90% of the
problem.

It doesn't exist of course, but I think it would be a good idea.
Click to expand...

Aren't most computers sold with exactly that (or better) facility these
days?
Don't they call them notebooks/laptops/netbooks? :-)
 
I do. The power here (N. California) may cut once or twice a year . . .
mine (a consumer grade APC model) probably should have
the battery replaced. I don't want to pay the exorbitant cost of an APC
battery, it's just lead-acid after all. Would a car (12v) or motorcycle
(6v) battery, wired in place of the APC battery, do just as well?
Click to expand...

Reckoning risk (of loss of data, thus time to restore) as well as
dollar cost, your best bet is probably a specialist battery store.
This city (pop. less than a million) supports at least one, which
stocks no-brand replacement batteries cheaper than those
sold by APC for some (but not all) sizes of branded UPS (and
other types of battery, e.g. for autos, security lamps, laptops.)
 
3-5 years is normal.
Click to expand...

My last one (an APC), I looked around and found a motorcycle ser#
battery (*supposedly*) that would work. $20+/US out of an autostore
(ordered in, a no-stock catalog item). Old-style entry APC
rectangular unit, fairly weighty, w/ some USB interface control
interaction. These newer APC models are flatish, lowered w/ plugs
more accessible, and though close to the old unit's weight, don't
appear nearly so adaptable to battery substitutions. Car batteries
*can* go on forever, well past five and between ten years. What kills
them is a full discharge.

I'm tempted to go back to APC for VOIP/ADSL modems -- also getting my
auto-negotiating backup VOIP modems out of Walmart (special order to
store) for a sweet $40 flat. ActionTec packaged parent brand though
seeing them also rebadged into specific-ISP configs such as Westel.
Have had some real issues with modems that crapped out after storms
and power fluctuations. One ISP net-type would have me believe,
unlike computers/monitors, these VOIP modems are much more sensitively
made and derive greater benefit from a UPS. Could be based on a few
years experience I've had, but that points construction/engineering
standards that aren't nearly as robust (I've never had a computer, or
monitor, that *lost it* simply because of a brown- or pwr-outage).
Then again, these Actiontecs are *green* - comparatively cool and
holding some sort of engineering award for high-efficiency, low-pwr
consumption, chip implementation.

Maybe if I get another Actiontec and save a buck or two from buying an
APC UPS, in the time a battery dies, the second VOIP would have
covered me adequately. Can't make up my mind, though I'm tending
towards a second modem.
 
OK. Still, what about replacing the APC battery with a bigger one (both
physically and electrically) so I get longer capacity without having to
buy a new UPS? Seems a cheap way to get a longer offline battery life.
Click to expand...

Again, if your UPS can't compensate for a larger battery, it won't charge
it at the proper rate. You need to read the manual carefully.
 
I do, living in Greece where the power gets cut off frequently for a
few seconds to a few minutes every few days. They say it's the fault
of the building I'm in, though the power company also has brownouts
all the time.

Who else?
Click to expand...

Yup. It's the summer thunderstorms here. Most of the outages are
*VERY* brief but it doesn't take very long for the capacitors in the
power supply to run down.
 
I do. The power here (N. California) may cut once or twice a year in a
winter storm. More than that, the UPS smooths out voltage fluctations
caused by high-power appliances in the home turning on: a laser printer
and shop air compressor, both unfortunately on the same circuit as my
desktop computer.

Speaking of UPSs, mine (a consumer grade APC model) probably should have
the battery replaced. I don't want to pay the exorbitant cost of an APC
battery, it's just lead-acid after all. Would a car (12v) or motorcycle
(6v) battery, wired in place of the APC battery, do just as well? More
capacity (on-battery computer life) for less money.
Click to expand...

A bad idea--their charger doesn't like too much capacity connected to
it. It's also a pair of 12v batteries giving a total of 24v.

I recently replaced the batteries in an add-on pack of theirs with
these:
http://www.wholesalebatteriesdirect.com/45578-apc-rbc33-ups-battery.html

These are 8Ah rather than the 9Ah ones that APC uses but $20 a pop
rather than $30 for the 9Ah ones.

The batteries in the main unit are actually two such batteries
fastened together, I haven't examined one to figure out how they
attached them. The external unit uses four of these individually. It
takes some prying to get it apart, they didn't design it to ever come
apart.
 
OK. Still, what about replacing the APC battery with a bigger one (both
physically and electrically) so I get longer capacity without having to
buy a new UPS? Seems a cheap way to get a longer offline battery life.
Click to expand...

It's called an APC BR24BP. $149.99 IIRC. It triples the capacity
which for me translates into about 10x the runtime.

Note that this only works with their largest consumer units--if you
have a smaller one they figure you should buy a bigger unit.
 
When my APC model battery exploded from old age (it literally puffed
up the case) the local PC guy kept the innards and switched just the
battery part, and saved me something like 30%. Don't know how he did
it, but he did, so it's doable. Maybe he had a spare battery from
another APC unit, though he claims he sent for a new one at the
factory. And the 'repaired' APC works fine. ...the stats say "two
blackouts in the last week" - nice.
Click to expand...

Yeah, when the batteries die they get puffy. The bad ones I pulled
out were all somewhat puffy, although there is enough space in the
BR24BP that the case showed no signs of this. (It did, however, get
too warm.)
 
10 min of backup built into the computer would solve this problem. I
am guessing it would cost much less than a UPS and fix 90% of the
problem.

It doesn't exist of course, but I think it would be a good idea.
Click to expand...

It would be nearly a whole UPS itself.

UPSes are normally based around lead-acid batteries. These are heavy.
The batteries don't last anything like forever, either.
 
I do, living in Greece where the power gets cut off frequently for a
few seconds to a few minutes every few days. They say it's the fault
of the building I'm in, though the power company also has brownouts
all the time.

Who else?

RL
Click to expand...

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is the use of a
typical square wave UPS (most APC consumer units, for example) with a
modern power supply that has "Active Power Factor" correction, like
the Antec Earthwatts 500W unit. I hapened to get that PS when I built
my latest computer, and found that it was completely incompatible with
my existing APC UPS ( model NS 1250). I thought the UPS was defective,
so I contacted APC and they explained that I needed to get a
"sine-wave" UPS for that model Antec PS. Of course, a sine wave UPS is
much more expensive, and since the UPS had worked perfectly with my
old Antec True-power 480 w PS, I swapped to the old PS rather than
spend a bunch on a new UPS.

I later contacted a few different PS manufacturers, and most of the
new supplies have active PF correction now.... however, at least one
states categorically that their unit will work with a square wave
UPS.... so that's something else to consider when getting a UPS (of if
you already have a UPS, getting a new PS for a computer).
 
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