Which Tape Drive for PC Workstation?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Obadiah
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Obadiah

Howdy. I am looking for some recommendations on a tape drive for a
stand-alone PC workstation running WindowsXP Pro. I need a way of
backing up an entire HD (say 40-65GB) to a single tape. That way it can
be set to auto-run at 5:30PM and should be done by thee next day.

It seems like all the newer tape drives I see are for server or network
storage devices and are very spendy. There are also an amazing array of
different storage technologies. Any suggestions for a desktop?

Thanks for your help.
 
I'm afraid that inexpensive tape for a single workstation is gone forever.
Occasional archiving can be done with DVD writer technology.
Unattended operations are best with additional hard drives - internal for
fault tolerance, - external for off site. Most typical external disk drives
have USB (2.0) interface.
 
You will pay BIG money for a good drive for that much data. Instead, I
would recommend a removable drive bay and several drives. WD 120 GB special
edition drives are less than $100, Vantec removable caddy is like $35. I
use Pelican cases for transporting drives off site, they are waterproof and
mostly crush proof. The foam can be cut in such a way that the drive is
cushioned all the way around with like 2 or 3" of foam. VERY nice. No
worries about getting wet from rain while going to the car and if I drop it
on concrete, no biggie. Hell, I could throw it in the river and I am sure
the drive wouldn't get wet. Good tape drives are VERY expensive and require
maintenance. Even tapes are very expensive, and slow on top of that. My
backup is only about 15GB right now, so I have each 120GB removable drive
keep 4 backups on it (a little growing room), all automated. I like using
this backup method on top of RAID 1, I feel pretty much covered.

--Dan
 
Obadiah said:
Howdy. I am looking for some recommendations on a tape drive for a
stand-alone PC workstation running WindowsXP Pro. I need a way of
backing up an entire HD (say 40-65GB) to a single tape. That way it can
be set to auto-run at 5:30PM and should be done by thee next day.

It seems like all the newer tape drives I see are for server or network
storage devices and are very spendy. There are also an amazing array of
different storage technologies. Any suggestions for a desktop?
Click to expand...

Yeah, forget tape. Note, by the way, that below I use actual capacity while
the manufacturers use "compressed capacity" which is meaningless--double
mine for the manufacturer numbers.

LTO and DLT are very well established, very reliable devices that are priced
out of the reach of most individual computer users. 8mm helical scan (AIT,
VXA, Exabyte Mammoth), is a little less pricey and still very reliable but
it's still more than most folks can afford. 4mm helical scan (DDS or DAT)
is decent but the tapes have a limited service life, the drives have to be
cleaned on schedule or they act up, and the largest DDS drive is only 36
gig and costs as much as an 80 gig VXA. The rest, forget about it, they're
all junk.

Best bet with tape would be a VXA-2 drive, which is about a thousand bucks
plus host adapter plus 70 bucks a shot for 60 gig tapes.

Now consider that Newegg has 80 gig hard drives in stock from all major
manufacturers for under 70 bucks a shot. Using those drives, a suitable
enclosure, and the right host adapter you can set up a daily rotation
backup on a 7-day cycle with removable media for less than the price of
that drive and one tape.
 
Obadiah said:
Howdy. I am looking for some recommendations on a tape drive for a
stand-alone PC workstation running WindowsXP Pro. I need a way of
backing up an entire HD (say 40-65GB) to a single tape. That way it can
be set to auto-run at 5:30PM and should be done by thee next day.
Click to expand...

Don't even think about a tape. Get an inexpensive USB or other removeable
HD and use a HD for backup.
 
J. Clarke said:
Yeah, forget tape. Note, by the way, that below I use actual capacity while
the manufacturers use "compressed capacity" which is meaningless--double
mine for the manufacturer numbers.

LTO and DLT are very well established, very reliable devices that are priced
out of the reach of most individual computer users. 8mm helical scan (AIT,
VXA, Exabyte Mammoth), is a little less pricey and still very reliable but
it's still more than most folks can afford. 4mm helical scan (DDS or DAT)
is decent but the tapes have a limited service life, the drives have to be
cleaned on schedule or they act up, and the largest DDS drive is only 36
gig and costs as much as an 80 gig VXA. The rest, forget about it, they're
all junk.

Best bet with tape would be a VXA-2 drive, which is about a thousand bucks
plus host adapter plus 70 bucks a shot for 60 gig tapes.

Now consider that Newegg has 80 gig hard drives in stock from all major
manufacturers for under 70 bucks a shot. Using those drives, a suitable
enclosure, and the right host adapter you can set up a daily rotation
backup on a 7-day cycle with removable media for less than the price of
that drive and one tape.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind follow up. I think you're right that a HD maybe the route.
I would like to explore 4mm tape before going there before. Can you recommend a
good make?

Thanks.
 
Peter said:
I'm afraid that inexpensive tape for a single workstation is gone forever.
Occasional archiving can be done with DVD writer technology.
Unattended operations are best with additional hard drives - internal for
fault tolerance, - external for off site. Most typical external disk drives
have USB (2.0) interface.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your help. I was afraid that the day of the good ol' tape streamers
were over. Is DVD-RW a viable option? Also, I remember "back in the day"
people backing up to a VCR. Anyone still do this?
 
dg said:
You will pay BIG money for a good drive for that much data. Instead, I
would recommend a removable drive bay and several drives. WD 120 GB special
edition drives are less than $100, Vantec removable caddy is like $35. I
use Pelican cases for transporting drives off site, they are waterproof and
mostly crush proof. The foam can be cut in such a way that the drive is
cushioned all the way around with like 2 or 3" of foam. VERY nice. No
worries about getting wet from rain while going to the car and if I drop it
on concrete, no biggie. Hell, I could throw it in the river and I am sure
the drive wouldn't get wet. Good tape drives are VERY expensive and require
maintenance. Even tapes are very expensive, and slow on top of that. My
backup is only about 15GB right now, so I have each 120GB removable drive
keep 4 backups on it (a little growing room), all automated. I like using
this backup method on top of RAID 1, I feel pretty much covered.

--Dan
Click to expand...

Thanks. That does sound like a good idea.
 
Obadiah said:
Thanks for your help. I was afraid that the day of the good ol' tape
streamers
were over. Is DVD-RW a viable option? Also, I remember "back in the day"
people backing up to a VCR. Anyone still do this?
Click to expand...

Capacity is limited and it's very slow--the gadget that you need in order to
do it still pops up on ebay now and then but I don't remember now what
keywords I was using when I ran across them.

DVD-RW is a viable option however the capacity is again somewhat limited.
 
Howdy. I am looking for some recommendations on a tape drive for a
stand-alone PC workstation running WindowsXP Pro. I need a way of
backing up an entire HD (say 40-65GB) to a single tape. That way it can
be set to auto-run at 5:30PM and should be done by thee next day.

It seems like all the newer tape drives I see are for server or network
storage devices and are very spendy. There are also an amazing array of
different storage technologies. Any suggestions for a desktop?

Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...


Check out Iomega's REV drives, 35GB (native) removable 2.5" HD's. I've
had one now for 4 weeks. I got it to replace my OnStream tape drive
and I'm very happy with it. Originally I was looking at DDS4 or 2nd
hand DLT or something. Check out my review in this group in the
thread "Comments on Iomega's 35Gb removable REV drive?" posted on 17th
May and
http://www.iomega-europe.com/eu/en/products/rev/rev_family_en.aspx


NO SPAM
 
Obadiah wrote:
Click to expand...
LTO and DLT are very well established, very reliable devices that are priced
out of the reach of most individual computer users. 8mm helical scan (AIT,
VXA, Exabyte Mammoth), is a little less pricey and still very reliable but
it's still more than most folks can afford. 4mm helical scan (DDS or DAT)
is decent but the tapes have a limited service life, the drives have to be
cleaned on schedule or they act up, and the largest DDS drive is only 36
gig and costs as much as an 80 gig VXA. The rest, forget about it, they're
all junk.
Click to expand...

You can pick up a nice Exabyte for a few hundred bucks (8505) or a bit
more for an 8705 on EBay. Uncompressed capacity is 7 GB, not as much
as you're seeking, but good software can address that (more about
later).

8 mm Exabyte (non-Mammoth) tapes are readily available on EBay for a
$1-3 each. And, with tapes, you can store backups offsite, and you
can store more than a few days worth of backups. What happens when
you need to retrieve a good copy of a file that was somehow trashed
two weeks ago? Disk? I doubt that.

Consider Retrospect by Dantz Software. www.dantz.com. About $90k for
the Professional version. With Dantz, once you have done a full
backup, each subsequent backup includes only those files that have
been changed. And it is smart enough to know which files do NOT need
to be restored, if you are rebuilding a disk. This works fine,but in
practice, you will want to start a new backup cycle every so often.

Dantz is head-and-shoulders above "personal" backup programs like
BackUpMyPC. If you do decide to go with disk-to-disk or disk-to-CDR
backup, Dantz supports those options too. Check it out. Well worth
it.
Best bet with tape would be a VXA-2 drive, which is about a thousand bucks
plus host adapter plus 70 bucks a shot for 60 gig tapes.
Click to expand...

See above. Even if you do go with a VAX-2 drive, consider sourcing
your tapes from EBay.
 
Obadiah said:
Howdy. I am looking for some recommendations on a tape drive for a
stand-alone PC workstation running WindowsXP Pro. I need a way of
backing up an entire HD (say 40-65GB) to a single tape. That way it can
be set to auto-run at 5:30PM and should be done by thee next day.

It seems like all the newer tape drives I see are for server or network
storage devices and are very spendy. There are also an amazing array of
different storage technologies. Any suggestions for a desktop?

Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...

You have 40 to 65Gb of "new data" each day?? if not why backup the total
disk. A full backup once then incremental for 6 days then another full
backup. Not the quickest way if you HAD to do a restore but it might mean
that a DVD/CD device could the incrementals for you and save time for the
backup.

Please do test the backup / restore route before you have the crash! No
matter what anyone says there are only two types of hard disk......
Those that have failed
Those that will fail.

regards
ted
 
Winey said:
You can pick up a nice Exabyte for a few hundred bucks (8505) or a bit
more for an 8705 on EBay. Uncompressed capacity is 7 GB, not as much
as you're seeking, but good software can address that (more about
later).

8 mm Exabyte (non-Mammoth) tapes are readily available on EBay for a
$1-3 each. And, with tapes, you can store backups offsite, and you
can store more than a few days worth of backups. What happens when
you need to retrieve a good copy of a file that was somehow trashed
two weeks ago? Disk? I doubt that.
Click to expand...

If you're only storing 7 gig, that's 2 DVDs. 8mm drives don't need to be
cleaned quite as religiously as 4mm, but they still need regular
maintenance. If your ebay drive is not new in sealed box there's a good
chance that it's dead. Further, the tapes wear out--again if those tapes
are not new in sealed box they're very likely dead.
Consider Retrospect by Dantz Software. www.dantz.com. About $90k for
the Professional version. With Dantz, once you have done a full
backup, each subsequent backup includes only those files that have
been changed.
Click to expand...

That is called an "incremental backup" and Windows backup does that just
fine, you don't need to spend "$90k" for it.

If you're doing 7 gig at a time then a single 70 gig disk will hold ten of
those. Or you can use 10 7 gig drives which go for about the same price as
those tapes.
And it is smart enough to know which files do NOT need
to be restored, if you are rebuilding a disk.
Click to expand...

You're saying that it doesn't restore files that have been deleted since the
backup? Or that it doesn't overwrite files? Or that you can tell it which
files to restore? Or what?
This works fine,but in
practice, you will want to start a new backup cycle every so often.

Dantz is head-and-shoulders above "personal" backup programs like
BackUpMyPC. If you do decide to go with disk-to-disk or disk-to-CDR
backup, Dantz supports those options too. Check it out. Well worth
it.
Click to expand...

Windows Backup supports disk to disk or to any other media that can be
mounted as a disk including network shares.
See above. Even if you do go with a VAX-2 drive, consider sourcing
your tapes from EBay.
Click to expand...

You can get VXA-2 tapes for less on ebay but you can also get hard drives
for less on ebay, and it's even money which is more likely to work.
 
ted said:
You have 40 to 65Gb of "new data" each day?? if not why backup the total
disk. A full backup once then incremental for 6 days then another full
backup. Not the quickest way if you HAD to do a restore but it might mean
that a DVD/CD device could the incrementals for you and save time for the
backup.
Click to expand...

Or you can do differential and then you have only the full and partial to
restore.
 
Thanks for the kind follow up. I think you're right that a HD maybe the route.
I would like to explore 4mm tape before going there before. Can you recommend a
good make?
Click to expand...

IIRC, 4mm tape topped out at 20GB/40GB (DDS4?). And
those drives are still $1000. The individual tapes are
a bit cheaper though, only $9 each.

http://www.pricescan.com/01012600.asp
http://www.superwarehouse.com/p.cfm?p=42006&CMP=KNC-
DK1974361877

External HDs are down-n-dirty simple. I recommend
getting 5400rpm drives since they run cooler.

My favorite enclosure is the MACE GROUP CA-405U2 USB 2.0
Enclosure. It's reasonably small (you could probably
fit 2 in a briefcase), moderately well put-together.

The big reason I like the CA-405U2 is that it has a
built-in power-supply. That means you don't have to
worry about a proprietary and hard-to-replace power-
brick that can get lost/damaged. Since it uses the
standard AC power cable, you can swipe one off the
nearest laser printer / monitor / PC in a pinch.

Unfortunately, I have yet to find a firewire enclosure
that is as small as the CA-405U2 that also includes an
internal power-supply. A lot of makers seem to be
moving away from internal power-supplies on the smaller
units. (Someone tell the marketing folks that small
isn't everything if you have to carry around that power-
brick.)
 
That is not true.
Most of the hard disks are thrown out (sometimes with the whole PC) before
they had a chance to fail.
It depends on the meaning of the word "fail".
 
You have 40 to 65Gb of "new data" each day?? if not why backup the total
disk. A full backup once then incremental for 6 days then another full
backup. Not the quickest way if you HAD to do a restore but it might mean
that a DVD/CD device could the incrementals for you and save time for the
backup.
Click to expand...

Some of the newer software also has a "differential"
backup. Do a full backup on Friday night, then Mon-Thu
it only backs up what changed between last Friday and
that day.

So a file the changes on monday afternoon ends up on Mon
night's tape, and Tue night's tape, and Wed's tape, and
Thu's tape.

Takes a bit more space on the tape then the daily
incremental approach, but makes it much easier to
restore.
 
Toshi1873 said:
IIRC, 4mm tape topped out at 20GB/40GB (DDS4?). And
those drives are still $1000. The individual tapes are
a bit cheaper though, only $9 each.
Click to expand...

DDS-5 hardware is commercially available for about 900 bucks. 36/72 gig.
http://www.pricescan.com/01012600.asp
http://www.superwarehouse.com/p.cfm?p=42006&CMP=KNC-
DK1974361877

External HDs are down-n-dirty simple. I recommend
getting 5400rpm drives since they run cooler.

My favorite enclosure is the MACE GROUP CA-405U2 USB 2.0
Enclosure. It's reasonably small (you could probably
fit 2 in a briefcase), moderately well put-together.

The big reason I like the CA-405U2 is that it has a
built-in power-supply. That means you don't have to
worry about a proprietary and hard-to-replace power-
brick that can get lost/damaged. Since it uses the
standard AC power cable, you can swipe one off the
nearest laser printer / monitor / PC in a pinch.

Unfortunately, I have yet to find a firewire enclosure
that is as small as the CA-405U2 that also includes an
internal power-supply. A lot of makers seem to be
moving away from internal power-supplies on the smaller
units. (Someone tell the marketing folks that small
isn't everything if you have to carry around that power-
brick.)
Click to expand...

The trouble with this approach is that you can't really do a rotation backup
with just a single drive--one of the purposes of the rotation backup is to
minimize data loss if the same event that takes out the disk also takes out
the tape that is in the machine. You need at least two drives, one that is
online and one that is not connected to anything, to deal with that
eventuality.

When you get into multiple external enclosures you add cost--with the
CA-405U2 you're adding about 36 bucks to each drive. With Dataport IVs
you're paying about 22 bucks for the enclosure and 15 for each frame. If
you go with a good Taiwanese knockoff such as the Lian-Li RH-10 then you're
looking at about 20 bucks for the enclosure and you can find the racks for
as little as 3 bucks.
 
Some of the newer software also has a "differential"
backup. Do a full backup on Friday night, then Mon-Thu
it only backs up what changed between last Friday and
that day.
Click to expand...
So a file the changes on monday afternoon ends up on Mon
night's tape, and Tue night's tape, and Wed's tape, and
Thu's tape.
Click to expand...
Takes a bit more space on the tape then the daily
incremental approach, but makes it much easier to
restore.
Click to expand...

Not if you modify the same large files everyday. With incremental
backup you will be backing up the same large files each night jast as
you do with differential backup, but you will not be overwriting the
backup volume with incremental. Therefore with incremental, that
backup volume will grow each night. With differential you overwrite
the backup volume each night, so it doesn't grow.

You can easily convince yourself of this. On the first night run an
incremental backup to get a baseline. Then run only differential
backups keeping track each night of the volume size (mine is typically
400 MB). If your usage is similar to mine, you will find that the
incremental and differential backups are about the same size.



--
Anubis, Supreme Goa'uld War Lord

* Mental Strength Is Essential For Success
* Fatigue Makes Cowards Of Us All
* Control The Ball
* Work On Lombardi Time
* Make That Second Effort
 
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