Which MBO for Mom?

[Bill Anderson]

This group gave me some excellent help a couple of weeks ago, so here I
am again. See what you get for being nice?

In my previous message I talked about replacing my 1.9 GHz P4 on an Asus
P4T-E with a 2.8 GHz P4. Well, it's working great, just as advertised.

Now I'm left with a spare P4 processor, though, and I've just learned
that I really need to replace Mom's computer. So I'm thinking -- since
I really want to replace my current mid-tower with a desktop case
configuration -- I'm looking at an Enlight 7200.
http://us.enlightcorp.com/products/pc/detel.php?kind=pccase&serial=70
Why? Because it will fit better in my computer cabinet. I can put it
on a sliding shelf and push it back into a well-ventilated area below
the desktop surface. Right now the mid-tower is sitting beside my
monitor and it's loud and I'd rather have my printer in that space
instead of down on the sliding shelf.

OK, but that's not my question. I want to put a new motherboard in my
old case, using my 1.9 GHz P4. I'll also have to buy some memory.

I figure if I get a mbo that includes video, sound, LAN, and USB, all
I'll have to add is a hard drive (I have a nice-sized spare sitting in a
drawer) and a CD-ROM (I have a spare sitting in a drawer -- actually a
2x Pioneer DVD-R), and maybe a floppy drive ($9 or thereabouts) and a
decent 56K modem which she'll use until we get her a cable modem.

I've read through the list of Asus socket 478 mbo's here:

http://usa.asus.com/products/mb/mbindex.htm

But I'm going crosseyed. When Asus brags like this for example:

"Leveraging the Intel 848P chipset to support 3.6GHz+ P4 CPUs on 800MHz
FSB, DDR400 memory, Intel Hyper-Threading technology, and a full-range
of advanced features, the P4P800S delivers a full-value,
high-performance solution for today's most demanding tasks."

Does that mean the board would also support my 1.9 GHz CPU? I chose
that description just as an example. The point is that the Asus site
seems to talk about only the fastest CPUs its boards will support, but
doesn't talk about backwards compatibility.

Here's the bottom line question: Does Asus make a board that would suit
my needs for Mom? She won't be playing games, won't be overclocking,
won't need RAID, won't need lots of bells and whistles. I just want a
dependable board with sound, video, LAN, support for an EIDE hard drive.
Which Asus board would best suit my needs?

Thanks.

 

[Paul]

This group gave me some excellent help a couple of weeks ago, so here I
am again. See what you get for being nice?

In my previous message I talked about replacing my 1.9 GHz P4 on an Asus
P4T-E with a 2.8 GHz P4. Well, it's working great, just as advertised.

Now I'm left with a spare P4 processor, though, and I've just learned
that I really need to replace Mom's computer. So I'm thinking -- since
I really want to replace my current mid-tower with a desktop case
configuration -- I'm looking at an Enlight 7200.
http://us.enlightcorp.com/products/pc/detel.php?kind=pccase&serial=70
Why? Because it will fit better in my computer cabinet. I can put it
on a sliding shelf and push it back into a well-ventilated area below
the desktop surface. Right now the mid-tower is sitting beside my
monitor and it's loud and I'd rather have my printer in that space
instead of down on the sliding shelf.

OK, but that's not my question. I want to put a new motherboard in my
old case, using my 1.9 GHz P4. I'll also have to buy some memory.

I figure if I get a mbo that includes video, sound, LAN, and USB, all
I'll have to add is a hard drive (I have a nice-sized spare sitting in a
drawer) and a CD-ROM (I have a spare sitting in a drawer -- actually a
2x Pioneer DVD-R), and maybe a floppy drive ($9 or thereabouts) and a
decent 56K modem which she'll use until we get her a cable modem.

I've read through the list of Asus socket 478 mbo's here:

http://usa.asus.com/products/mb/mbindex.htm

But I'm going crosseyed. When Asus brags like this for example:

"Leveraging the Intel 848P chipset to support 3.6GHz+ P4 CPUs on 800MHz
FSB, DDR400 memory, Intel Hyper-Threading technology, and a full-range
of advanced features, the P4P800S delivers a full-value,
high-performance solution for today's most demanding tasks."

Does that mean the board would also support my 1.9 GHz CPU? I chose
that description just as an example. The point is that the Asus site
seems to talk about only the fastest CPUs its boards will support, but
doesn't talk about backwards compatibility.

Here's the bottom line question: Does Asus make a board that would suit
my needs for Mom? She won't be playing games, won't be overclocking,
won't need RAID, won't need lots of bells and whistles. I just want a
dependable board with sound, video, LAN, support for an EIDE hard drive.
Which Asus board would best suit my needs?

Thanks.

Start here:
http://www.asus.com.tw/support/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx

Select CPU Name, then P4, and then find the right entry for your
processor.

I think you'll find the P4P800-VM is listed there. That board
uses the 865G and has built-in graphics, so no video card is
needed. It is microATX and has three PCI slots. It is one of
the few Asus microATX that posters don't seem to have issues
with. It is also one of the few microATX with a BIOS that has
settings for memory, something the other microATX boards are
sadly lacking. You can even set Vdimm if you want, although
in this case it won't be necessary.

The graphics use main memory for the frame buffer and for
any 3D operations. If you want to give the system some
"snap", use a pair of memory sticks, like 2x256MB, and put
one stick on each memory channel (for dual channel mode). If
you download the manual for the board, a FSB400 processor runs
memory at DDR266, so PC2100, PC2700, or PC3200 memory will work
fine. If you bought some commodity PC3200 CAS3 memory, that
should run at CAS2 when running at DDR266 (and the PC3200 will
be more useful later, if you want to swap it into another
system).

For ventilation on the computer case, you'll need the fan on
the PSU, plus one more case fan minimum. After all, your 1.9GHz
processor is in the 72 watt power range. The 865G has one of
the hotter running Northbridges (10-12W), especially when running
3D graphics. It'll run a bit cooler doing just 2D. It is good if
the CPU HSF you select happens to blow a little sidestream air
onto the fins of the Northbridge.

HTH,
Paul

 

[Michael W. Ryder]

This group gave me some excellent help a couple of weeks ago, so here I
am again. See what you get for being nice?

In my previous message I talked about replacing my 1.9 GHz P4 on an Asus
P4T-E with a 2.8 GHz P4. Well, it's working great, just as advertised.

Now I'm left with a spare P4 processor, though, and I've just learned
that I really need to replace Mom's computer. So I'm thinking -- since
I really want to replace my current mid-tower with a desktop case
configuration -- I'm looking at an Enlight 7200.
http://us.enlightcorp.com/products/pc/detel.php?kind=pccase&serial=70
Why? Because it will fit better in my computer cabinet. I can put it
on a sliding shelf and push it back into a well-ventilated area below
the desktop surface. Right now the mid-tower is sitting beside my
monitor and it's loud and I'd rather have my printer in that space
instead of down on the sliding shelf.

OK, but that's not my question. I want to put a new motherboard in my
old case, using my 1.9 GHz P4. I'll also have to buy some memory.

I figure if I get a mbo that includes video, sound, LAN, and USB, all
I'll have to add is a hard drive (I have a nice-sized spare sitting in a
drawer) and a CD-ROM (I have a spare sitting in a drawer -- actually a
2x Pioneer DVD-R), and maybe a floppy drive ($9 or thereabouts) and a
decent 56K modem which she'll use until we get her a cable modem.

I've read through the list of Asus socket 478 mbo's here:

http://usa.asus.com/products/mb/mbindex.htm

But I'm going crosseyed. When Asus brags like this for example:

"Leveraging the Intel 848P chipset to support 3.6GHz+ P4 CPUs on 800MHz
FSB, DDR400 memory, Intel Hyper-Threading technology, and a full-range
of advanced features, the P4P800S delivers a full-value,
high-performance solution for today's most demanding tasks."

Does that mean the board would also support my 1.9 GHz CPU? I chose
that description just as an example. The point is that the Asus site
seems to talk about only the fastest CPUs its boards will support, but
doesn't talk about backwards compatibility.

Here's the bottom line question: Does Asus make a board that would suit
my needs for Mom? She won't be playing games, won't be overclocking,
won't need RAID, won't need lots of bells and whistles. I just want a
dependable board with sound, video, LAN, support for an EIDE hard drive.
Which Asus board would best suit my needs?

Thanks.

If you select the specifications page it will show the FSB speeds that
the board supports. This board for example will work with 400, 533, and
800 MHz front side bus speeds. If your 1.9 GHz CPU uses the 400 MHz FSB
(which I think it does) it will work with this board. The other speeds
allow you to upgrade the computer at a later time to newer chips.

 

[Bill Anderson]

Start here:
http://www.asus.com.tw/support/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx

Select CPU Name, then P4, and then find the right entry for your
processor.

I think you'll find the P4P800-VM is listed there. That board
uses the 865G and has built-in graphics, so no video card is
needed. It is microATX and has three PCI slots. It is one of
the few Asus microATX that posters don't seem to have issues
with. It is also one of the few microATX with a BIOS that has
settings for memory, something the other microATX boards are
sadly lacking. You can even set Vdimm if you want, although
in this case it won't be necessary.

The graphics use main memory for the frame buffer and for
any 3D operations. If you want to give the system some
"snap", use a pair of memory sticks, like 2x256MB, and put
one stick on each memory channel (for dual channel mode). If
you download the manual for the board, a FSB400 processor runs
memory at DDR266, so PC2100, PC2700, or PC3200 memory will work
fine. If you bought some commodity PC3200 CAS3 memory, that
should run at CAS2 when running at DDR266 (and the PC3200 will
be more useful later, if you want to swap it into another
system).

<snip>

Thanks, Paul. I did as you suggested and ordered the P4P800-VM from
newegg.com along with a bunch of other stuff, including two 256MB
sticks of Mushkin PC2100 DDRAM (which isn't what I got). It all
arrived a couple of days ago, and I've built a very nice computer for
Mom. That Asus mbo works just great -- sound, video, LAN, USB 2.0 --
all first class. Many thanks for the suggestion -- the board really
meets my needs.

But...

The folks at newegg.com got things a little confused. For one thing,
they sent me two 80mm case fans when I ordered and paid for only one.
It's nice, I guess, when a small mistake is made in your favor. On
the other hand, there's apparently a problem with the sticks of memory
too -- they sent me one 256MB stick of Mushkin PC2700 DDRAM, and one
stick of Mushkin PC3200 DDRAM, even though I paid only for two sticks
of PC2100. I didn't discover this until this morning when I installed
that Everest Home Edition system monitor software you pointed me to,
and reviewed my system. I mean, I wondered why the package that
contained one of the sticks had a clear backing and the other had
black backing -- I even tried to determine whether they were actually
the same. But I couldn't find anywhere on the packaging ANYTHING to
indicate what sort of memory stick was inside -- not on either one of
them. And they certainly LOOKED identical. So maybe that's a tiny
excuse for the folks at Newegg to be confused about what they were
sending me. Anyway, I opened the packaging and once I got inside I
found the memory sticks themselves both sport nice paper stickers that
say "2100." But according to the Everest Home Edition system monitor
software, that's not at all what they are.

So what do you think? Should I just go ahead and give the system to
Mom as it is? Both Windows and Everest report that I have a total of
502MB of memory, which doesn't really seem right. Everest also
reports under Motherboard/SPD that I have two 256MB modules of DDR
SDRAM. One is PC2700 and the other is PC3200. And it reports my
memory speed as PC2700 (166 MHz).

Do you think things will continue to work as well as they're working
now -- which is very good? Should I send the memory back to Newegg --
which I don't want to take the time to do? I've heard that mixing
different types of memory is a bad thing. What do you think? Thanks
for the help.

 

[notritenoteri]

How about an IRON-ing Board?

(e-mail address removed) (Paul) wrote in message

<snip>

Thanks, Paul. I did as you suggested and ordered the P4P800-VM from
newegg.com along with a bunch of other stuff, including two 256MB
sticks of Mushkin PC2100 DDRAM (which isn't what I got). It all
arrived a couple of days ago, and I've built a very nice computer for
Mom. That Asus mbo works just great -- sound, video, LAN, USB 2.0 --
all first class. Many thanks for the suggestion -- the board really
meets my needs.

But...

The folks at newegg.com got things a little confused. For one thing,
they sent me two 80mm case fans when I ordered and paid for only one.
It's nice, I guess, when a small mistake is made in your favor. On
the other hand, there's apparently a problem with the sticks of memory
too -- they sent me one 256MB stick of Mushkin PC2700 DDRAM, and one
stick of Mushkin PC3200 DDRAM, even though I paid only for two sticks
of PC2100. I didn't discover this until this morning when I installed
that Everest Home Edition system monitor software you pointed me to,
and reviewed my system. I mean, I wondered why the package that
contained one of the sticks had a clear backing and the other had
black backing -- I even tried to determine whether they were actually
the same. But I couldn't find anywhere on the packaging ANYTHING to
indicate what sort of memory stick was inside -- not on either one of
them. And they certainly LOOKED identical. So maybe that's a tiny
excuse for the folks at Newegg to be confused about what they were
sending me. Anyway, I opened the packaging and once I got inside I
found the memory sticks themselves both sport nice paper stickers that
say "2100." But according to the Everest Home Edition system monitor
software, that's not at all what they are.

So what do you think? Should I just go ahead and give the system to
Mom as it is? Both Windows and Everest report that I have a total of
502MB of memory, which doesn't really seem right. Everest also
reports under Motherboard/SPD that I have two 256MB modules of DDR
SDRAM. One is PC2700 and the other is PC3200. And it reports my
memory speed as PC2700 (166 MHz).

Do you think things will continue to work as well as they're working
now -- which is very good? Should I send the memory back to Newegg --
which I don't want to take the time to do? I've heard that mixing
different types of memory is a bad thing. What do you think? Thanks
for the help.

 

[Don Coon]

Why does it have to be an ASUS board?

Go to www.newegg.com and use their search for board that meets your needs.
Then scan the results for the # of stars and user feedback.

The cheapest 4-star or better ASUS MB is the P44P800-MX for $70 shipped.
It's 4-Star, BTW.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-504&depa=0

If you don't have to have an ASUS, the MSI P4MAM-V for $44 shipped, also
4-Star, gets better user reviews.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-456&depa=0

Good Luck!

 

[Bill Anderson]

Why does it have to be an ASUS board?

Thanks for the note, Don. I must not have been clear in all my
verbiage. The board is bought, delivered, installed, and working fine.
I like the board. It's the two memory sticks I was asking about.

Bill Anderson

Go to www.newegg.com and use their search for board that meets your needs.
Then scan the results for the # of stars and user feedback.

The cheapest 4-star or better ASUS MB is the P44P800-MX for $70 shipped.
It's 4-Star, BTW.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-504&depa=0

If you don't have to have an ASUS, the MSI P4MAM-V for $44 shipped, also
4-Star, gets better user reviews.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-456&depa=0

Good Luck!

 

[Don Coon]

Thanks for the note, Don. I must not have been clear in all my
verbiage. The board is bought, delivered, installed, and working fine.
I like the board. It's the two memory sticks I was asking about.

Bill Anderson

Oops! Missed that. Kind of nice that you can buy a new MB with on-board
video, sound and LAN for less than the price of a mid-class video card : )

 

[Paul]

(e-mail address removed) (Paul) wrote in message

Thanks, Paul. I did as you suggested and ordered the P4P800-VM from
newegg.com along with a bunch of other stuff, including two 256MB
sticks of Mushkin PC2100 DDRAM (which isn't what I got). It all
arrived a couple of days ago, and I've built a very nice computer for
Mom. That Asus mbo works just great -- sound, video, LAN, USB 2.0 --
all first class. Many thanks for the suggestion -- the board really
meets my needs.

But...

The folks at newegg.com got things a little confused. For one thing,
they sent me two 80mm case fans when I ordered and paid for only one.
It's nice, I guess, when a small mistake is made in your favor. On
the other hand, there's apparently a problem with the sticks of memory
too -- they sent me one 256MB stick of Mushkin PC2700 DDRAM, and one
stick of Mushkin PC3200 DDRAM, even though I paid only for two sticks
of PC2100. I didn't discover this until this morning when I installed
that Everest Home Edition system monitor software you pointed me to,
and reviewed my system. I mean, I wondered why the package that
contained one of the sticks had a clear backing and the other had
black backing -- I even tried to determine whether they were actually
the same. But I couldn't find anywhere on the packaging ANYTHING to
indicate what sort of memory stick was inside -- not on either one of
them. And they certainly LOOKED identical. So maybe that's a tiny
excuse for the folks at Newegg to be confused about what they were
sending me. Anyway, I opened the packaging and once I got inside I
found the memory sticks themselves both sport nice paper stickers that
say "2100." But according to the Everest Home Edition system monitor
software, that's not at all what they are.

So what do you think? Should I just go ahead and give the system to
Mom as it is? Both Windows and Everest report that I have a total of
502MB of memory, which doesn't really seem right. Everest also
reports under Motherboard/SPD that I have two 256MB modules of DDR
SDRAM. One is PC2700 and the other is PC3200. And it reports my
memory speed as PC2700 (166 MHz).

Do you think things will continue to work as well as they're working
now -- which is very good? Should I send the memory back to Newegg --
which I don't want to take the time to do? I've heard that mixing
different types of memory is a bad thing. What do you think? Thanks
for the help.

No reason to panic. The board is flexible enough, that if the memory
sticks don't match one another, the board will run in virtual single
channel mode. You lose some memory bandwidth that way, but unless
mom is a gamer, she will never notice the loss.

DIMMs have a number of visible or invisible differences:

1) Single or double banked. Most of the time, a bank is placed on
each side of the DIMM, and people casually call that "double
sided" memory. It is possible to place two banks of memory
on the same side of the DIMM, so the number of sides may not
always equal the number of banks. A Windows utility can take
the guess work out of identifying how many banks there are.
2) Speed and timings. PC2700, PC3200 speed. 3-3-3-8 timings.
When sticks don't match in terms of speed or timings, the
BIOS will try its best to select the slower of the two
characteristics, so the two memories in a dual channel situation
can still be made to work, if these factors differ between
sticks.
3) Chip (logical) dimensions. To make a 256MB DIMM, you can use
two banks of 8x(16Mx8) chips or two banks of 4x(16Mx16) chips.
For dual channel, the number of chips in the bank, and the
dimensions of each chip, should match. So should the number of
banks on each DIMM. If you had one of each of the two examples
I just mentioned, then they wouldn't run in dual channel mode,
and you would lose about 30% memory bandwidth. (I know, because
a local vendor did exactly the same thing to me, as happened with
you and Newegg.)

The only chipset where the rules in (3) don't apply, is the Nforce2
chipset for AMD boards. Since there is a memory controller per DIMM
on that chipset, the DIMMs don't have to match in order to work.
Intel uses a single memory controller for the two channels, so
the way the DIMMs are run, has to match, and that is where some of
the rules above come from.

So, find a Windows utility that can tell you the number of banks on
the DIMM, the number of chips per bank, and the chip dimensions (16Mx8).
If both DIMMs match in those characteristics, then keep the RAM, as
you are ahead of the game. If the DIMMs are different, as in
one is 8x(16Mx8) and the other is 4x(16Mx16), I would return them
and get something back that at least matches in terms of the rule (3)
above.

Again, as I mentioned above, mom won't notice the difference, but
I did waste the extra time (right around Christmas, too!) in getting
matching DIMMs. My vendor screwed up twice, so I was pretty peeved
by the time the process was finished. The reason it took two tries,
is the computer in question is an "all in one" LCD display +
processing board, and they have to open it up to change the DIMMs.
It is like a laptop, only the keyboard can be any old PS/2
keyboard if you like. I swore I wouldn't touch it, but eventually
I had to have a look inside, to see what I was getting. And,
I was not happy...

The nice thing about the P4P800-VM, is it is one of the few
Asus microATX boards with a half decent BIOS. It is still missing
a few features for an overclocker, but for someone just interested
in OEMing them, the BIOS is the best feature of the board.

HTH,
Paul