Which card for car racing games? 8500, 9100, 9600 etc. etc.

  • Thread starter Thread starter John Fryatt
  • Start date Start date
J

John Fryatt

Hi,

I am currently building a second PC, which will be a dual-boot machine used
for a) games, mainly car racing sims (Grand Prix Legends, Grand Prix 4), and
b) to experiment with and learn about Linux.
It will run an AMD Athlon XP2500, or maybe an XP2800. I am trying to decide
what video card to use. I think I've narrowed it down to Radeon 8500, 9100,
9600, but I can't make my mind up between these.

Some of the other Radeons seem less attractive because they are crippled
versions, or 'budget' in various ways.
The top-end Radeons like 9700/9800 are probably outside my budget and I
think I don't need super-vertex-mega-shading or whatever, for the stuff I
want to run.

I think the 9100 is basically a re-labelled 8500. They seem to be available
pretty cheaply.
The 9600 (non-Pro) is attractive as it doesn't use a fan so it'll be
quieter.

Now, this build project is not ultra-cheapo, but I am trying to keep the
budget under control, and not just going for the best of everything. E.g.
Athlon XP2500 seems like a good price/performance point.
The racing sims I mentioned are quite old, but I like them. They won't be
using DX9 features, obviously.
Not sure what new racing sims are around, but it would be nice to be able to
run them.

So, considering games I like and budget considerations, what do you
recommend? 8500/9100 or 9600?

I'm kind of tending toward 8500/9100 to have for, say, a year, then upgrade
later maybe.

Any other thoughts? Something I've missed perhaps?

All advice gratefully received.

Cheers, John
 
The top-end Radeons like 9700/9800 are probably outside my budget
Click to expand...

That's a shame. For me one of the major immersive pleasures when racing
(or flying or just gaming in general) is to be able to crank up the
resolution to 1280x1024, x4fsaa, x8aniso, and marvel at the amazing
graphics... not just on recent releases like the impressive GTR demo or
Richard Burns Rally (which hasn't hit my doorstep yet, but will very soon
I hope).

Even GPL looks amazing with all the graphics updates (you should check out
Live For Speed as well). Higher resolution means other vehicles and
scenery look more realistic for longer as they appear/disappear ahead of
you and that adds greatly to the experience, especially in driving &
flight sims.

IMO there's almost no excuse (poverty's always a good one though ;-) not
to buy a cheap 9800Pro and get the most out of your games & sims. I paid
£150 for a second hand 9700Pro last year, and I was so impressed I
regretted not buying one earlier, high price or not. It really was a
*very* impressive step up, allowing full speed x4fsaa in all the games &
sims I enjoy most.

Anyway, if budget's an issue I'd suggest looking for a "9700 Pro"
(searching for 9700Pro shows up far fewer) on Ebay. As long as you buy
from people with good track records, Ebay's fine IMO, and £90 will get you
a new one delivered.

You might also want to investigate an Arctic VGA cooler (or buy a second
hand one with one fitted) because these cards do churn out a *lot* of heat
which can cause problems. The VGA cooler vents this out the back of the
case quite quietly. They can be a bit nerve-wracking to fit though
(perhaps not for the inexperienced worried about their warranty), but
they're much less hassle than the Zalman coolers.

The only other problem is *possibly* power supply issues. These cards draw
a lot of current when operating flat out (hence the extra power connector
they need), and older PSUs can struggle. So it can become a bit of a
headache
I'm kind of tending toward 8500/9100 to have for, say, a year,
then upgrade later maybe.
Click to expand...

I really think you'll be disappointed. Those really are very basic cards.
I honestly wouldn't let any friend of mine buy anything less than a
9600Pro... even the basic 9600 or 9600SE <shudder> are overpriced IMO.
It's a price point where a little more money buys you a lot more pleasure.

Of course you can play that game forever... which is how I ended up with a
lot of overtime and an x800Pro this summer. Still, you only live once and
it's cheaper than running a real car ;-)

BTW, the Athlon 2500 is great value for money (get a mobile as they're
unlocked... I use CPUcity.co.uk for this kind of stuff) and paired with
something like an Abit NF7 2.0 and 512Mb of cheap pc3200, you'll be set up
nicely.

I'd better shut up and stop confusing your decisions. Good luck finding
something which suits you and your budget.

Andrew McP

PS If you can find an old, cheap GF4 4200, they're not bad cards. Not very
fast with antialiasing, but certainly nice enough for the GPL generation.
 
John said:
Hi,

I am currently building a second PC, which will be a dual-boot machine used
for a) games, mainly car racing sims (Grand Prix Legends, Grand Prix 4), and
b) to experiment with and learn about Linux.
It will run an AMD Athlon XP2500, or maybe an XP2800. I am trying to decide
what video card to use. I think I've narrowed it down to Radeon 8500, 9100,
9600, but I can't make my mind up between these.

Some of the other Radeons seem less attractive because they are crippled
versions, or 'budget' in various ways.
The top-end Radeons like 9700/9800 are probably outside my budget and I
think I don't need super-vertex-mega-shading or whatever, for the stuff I
want to run.

I think the 9100 is basically a re-labelled 8500. They seem to be available
pretty cheaply.
The 9600 (non-Pro) is attractive as it doesn't use a fan so it'll be
quieter.

Now, this build project is not ultra-cheapo, but I am trying to keep the
budget under control, and not just going for the best of everything. E.g.
Athlon XP2500 seems like a good price/performance point.
The racing sims I mentioned are quite old, but I like them. They won't be
using DX9 features, obviously.
Not sure what new racing sims are around, but it would be nice to be able to
run them.

So, considering games I like and budget considerations, what do you
recommend? 8500/9100 or 9600?

I'm kind of tending toward 8500/9100 to have for, say, a year, then upgrade
later maybe.

Any other thoughts? Something I've missed perhaps?

All advice gratefully received.

Cheers, John
Click to expand...

I'd go for a 128 meg radeon 8500
 
John Fryatt said:
Hi,

I am currently building a second PC, which will be a dual-boot machine
used
for a) games, mainly car racing sims (Grand Prix Legends, Grand Prix 4),
and
b) to experiment with and learn about Linux.
It will run an AMD Athlon XP2500, or maybe an XP2800. I am trying to
decide
what video card to use. I think I've narrowed it down to Radeon 8500,
9100,
9600, but I can't make my mind up between these.
Click to expand...

The 9100 is just an 8500LE. The 8500 is decent, I used one for quite a while
until Thief3 forced an upgrade. The straight 9600 is OK, but suffers from
slow memory (200Mhz). A 9600 Pro is the best budget compromise...just a few
bucks more than the 8500 and faster with DX9
 
I had a Sapphire 9100 128MB, before upgrading to a 9600 PRO AIW

The 9100 is a renamed 8500LE.
The 9100/8500LE (200mhz memory) is a slightly slower version of the 8500
(250mhz memory).
I've also heard that the 8500 is more overclockable then the 9100/8500LE.
 
Aaaargh! Should have known better than to ask. I'll get you for this!
;-)

Seriously, I suspect you might be right. I've been looking again and now
tink I might spring for a 9600 PRO. A 9800 would be nice, but the price does
jump up quite a bit.

AS you say, it's so easy to get sucked into incrementally raising the
stakes. I've been dithering over Athlon 2500, 2800, 3200 etc. 333MHz memory
vs 400, etc. etc. Aaaargh!

Cheers, John
 
Aaaargh! Should have known better than to ask.
Click to expand...

Pain in the *arse isn't it :-)

I just think it's a false economy to sink money into a sub-standard card
(from a racing point of view). If your hobby was knitting and sending
emails to your grandchildren I'd say go ahead and spend as little as
possible on a vid card ;-)
I've been dithering over Athlon 2500, 2800, 3200 etc.
333MHz memory vs 400, etc. etc. Aaaargh!
Click to expand...

Been there, read the book, seen the movie, etc. The rule for me is that
whatever I buy, I usually regret sooner rather than later! When it comes
to video cards I've been guilty of buying cards for too little, too often
if you see what I mean. That way it's possible to spend less in the short
term, but just as much (or even more) in the long term as if I'd bought
what I really wanted in the first place.

However you're not me, so make sure I'm not leading you astray. Take a
look at the demos for more recent stuff like Live For Speed (soon to get a
much needed damage model) and that GTR demo I mentioned, because if you
prefer to be limited to good performance in older titles the cards you
mentioned might be fine for you for a year or so until your finances
recover.

Andrew McP
 
What about the 9600xt encore etc?

smithy

Tod said:
I had a Sapphire 9100 128MB, before upgrading to a 9600 PRO AIW

The 9100 is a renamed 8500LE.
The 9100/8500LE (200mhz memory) is a slightly slower version of the 8500
(250mhz memory).
I've also heard that the 8500 is more overclockable then the 9100/8500LE.
Click to expand...
 
Andrew MacPherson said:
Pain in the *arse isn't it :-)
Click to expand...

Yes, it is. And the pace of development of new things speeds up, increasing
the problem.
I just think it's a false economy to sink money into a sub-standard card
(from a racing point of view). If your hobby was knitting and sending
emails to your grandchildren I'd say go ahead and spend as little as
possible on a vid card ;-)
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. I have now bought a secondhand 9600PRO, which feels like a
decent compromise.
It should hold me a for a while, until I feel the urge to upgrade to a 9900,
or whatever ATI are up to by then.
Been there, read the book, seen the movie, etc. The rule for me is that
whatever I buy, I usually regret sooner rather than later! When it comes
to video cards I've been guilty of buying cards for too little, too often
if you see what I mean. That way it's possible to spend less in the short
term, but just as much (or even more) in the long term as if I'd bought
what I really wanted in the first place.

However you're not me, so make sure I'm not leading you astray. Take a
look at the demos for more recent stuff like Live For Speed (soon to get a
much needed damage model) and that GTR demo I mentioned, because if you
prefer to be limited to good performance in older titles the cards you
mentioned might be fine for you for a year or so until your finances
recover.
Click to expand...

Well, it's always balance between performance and dosh, isn't it?
Always chasing a few more fps or level of detail without actually signing
away your soul. ;-)
I think I'll be happy with GPL, GP4 and Rally Champ for a while yet.
I read something about Richard Burns Rally which seemed to suggest that
something like a Cray X1 would be needed to get the best effects from it.
;-)

(Totally OT, but I remember reading a story some years ago about Seymour
Cray. Apparently, when a new Cray computer was built he would manually
toggle in the initial boot loader on the front panel of it. I like that,
reminds me of my days as mainframe operator. I wonder if he still does it?
;-)

Actually it's good to get some advice backed up by the thinking leading to
it.
Too may times you see replies that just say "get a Gruntfuttock mk2b" or
whatever, without giving any reasoning, so the questioner is really no
further forward.

Cheers, John
 
I have now bought a secondhand 9600PRO, which feels
like a decent compromise
Click to expand...

Sounds like an excellent idea to me. It'll run the stuff you care about
quickly and at fairly high res, and also means you'll be in touch with the
bleeding edge so you can test out any demos or games which catch your eye.
(Personally I'm waiting for the Live For Speed team to add damage to their
evolving sim... it has a lot of potential as a true successor to GPL, and
is already very impressive in some ways).
I think I'll be happy with GPL, GP4 and Rally
Champ for a while yet.
Click to expand...

GPL is certainly one of those sims I can see me keeping on my HD for a
long time yet. As for Richard Burns... well, a few people I trust seem
very impressed so I've invested £18 (Play.com) to test it out. Fingers
crossed because I've yet to be impressed by the driving models of any of
the rally competition.
when a new Cray computer was built he would manually
toggle in the initial boot loader on the front panel of it
Click to expand...

That's quite touching. Not sure Michael Dell could spare the time to do
the same with his :-)
reminds me of my days as mainframe operator
Click to expand...

I was a late comer to computing. The school PET scared me off when I was
doing my A levels, and the Fortran77 card punch monsyter I had to use at
university was even worse. It all seemed like such a waste of time back
then. If only I'd invested a little more interest & effort :-)
Actually it's good to get some advice backed up by the
thinking leading to it.
Click to expand...

I always prefer to ask these kind of questions in groups that specialise
in what I care about. So in your case I'd have suggested
rec.autos.simulators as a good place to get advice from fellow driving
enthusiasts. As ever though, opinions vary. But the 9600Pro is a card that
most people (of an ATI persuasion anyway :-) agree is good value for
money.

Anyway, hope the upgrade goes well for you. There are a few potential
problems with GPL (and probably the others) but a search through Google
groups ought to prepare you for any eventualities.

Oh, and you may know about them already, but the forums at...

http://forum.rscnet.org/forum.php

....are also a great resource for anyone interested in racing sims.

Andrew McP
 
when a new Cray computer was built he would manually
That's quite touching. Not sure Michael Dell could spare the time to do
the same with his :-)
Click to expand...

I think maybe Michael Dell is a money man, whereas Seymour Cray sounds more
like a techie nerd-type who'd like that sort of thing. ;-)


Regards, John
 
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