Which backup programs will do this?

  • Thread starter Thread starter AL D
  • Start date Start date
A

AL D

I've never used an imaging program and am a bit wary of the concept.
My knowledge is limited, but it seems to me that it would be more
foolproof and convenient to have another bootable drive with an exact
copy of the main drive's contents: (OS, programs and data). This way,
if the main drive fails, I can simply set the bios to boot from the
backup drive (or even physically switch the drives, so that no BIOS
changes are required). Is there good justification for this backup
strategy?

If so....
on my Win XP, PC, what is an inexpensive way to copy the contents
of my main 120gb drive (contains my OS, my programs and my data) onto
another drive, so that the other drive is also bootable.

According to a PC World artice, CMS Product's $79 BounceBack
Professional 5.5 does this. But I'm guessing there is a cheaper,
simpler way. Bounceback doesn't seem to have a support site anyway.

After doing the initial copying of all the files, I would then like
a program that automatically backs up only files that are newly
created and all files that are subsequently changed, onto backup
drive, thus maintaining an accurate copy of the main drive as
efficiently as possible.

My main drive is 120gb and my backup drive is only 80gb, however, I
don't anticipate that the 120gb will ever contain anything approaching
80gb of data.

Budget is tight but the program needs to be effective and reliable. If
it's easy to understand and use, that would be good.

Will something as simple as Windows' drag-and-drop, or DOS Xcopy, do
the intitial copying of the main disc effectively? If so, I could then
use a low cost backup program to backup just the files that get
changed or added, yes?

Thank you,

Al D
 
I've never used an imaging program and am a bit wary of the concept.
My knowledge is limited, but it seems to me that it would be more
foolproof and convenient to have another bootable drive with an exact
copy of the main drive's contents: (OS, programs and data). This way,
if the main drive fails, I can simply set the bios to boot from the
backup drive (or even physically switch the drives, so that no BIOS
changes are required). Is there good justification for this backup
strategy?

If so....
on my Win XP, PC, what is an inexpensive way to copy the contents
of my main 120gb drive (contains my OS, my programs and my data) onto
another drive, so that the other drive is also bootable.


Thank you,

Al D
Click to expand...

Acronis trueimage will do exactly what you want i.e. clone your disk
directly to another disk or create a disk image on removeable media. Create
incremental images, scheduling etc etc.



MJP
 
MJP said:
Acronis trueimage will do exactly what you want i.e. clone your disk
directly to another disk or create a disk image on removeable media.
Create incremental images, scheduling etc etc.



MJP
Click to expand...

yes, I second TrueImage. Nice front end and easy to use and relatively
cheap.
 
Thank you. I am currently downloading the program. Then someone told
me about RAID hard drive controllers! That sounds even better...

Is RAID a practical option for keeping a running identical copy of a
hard drive? Do the two hard drives have to be identical in size?

I looked at the price of RAID controller cards and they appear to be
very cheap.

Thanks

Al D
 
AL D said:
Thank you. I am currently downloading the program. Then someone told
me about RAID hard drive controllers! That sounds even better...

Is RAID a practical option for keeping a running identical copy of a
hard drive? Do the two hard drives have to be identical in size?
Click to expand...

What you described as needed, is exactly what RAID does. It maintains a
realtime, exact duplicate of your HD. If one of the pair should fail, the
system keeps humming along as if nothing happened. The RAID controller
simply continues to read/write from the working HD. In the meantime, you
obtain a replacement HD. Once done, install it and the RAID controller
rebuilds the array (i.e., copies the current state of the good HD to the new
drive).

I use RAID1 (mirroring) myself, works great. Many newer mobo's already
contain a RAID controller for SATA HDs. The only vulnerability is during
the time you have a failure and the replacement is pending. But you could
always have a spare available, do a backup, etc. But the nice thing about
RAID is that it works silently and effortlessly in the background. And it
works for ANY OS, even if the OS isn't even boot, essentially ALL the time.
And that's because it works at the BIOS level, before any OS is ever loaded.
So if you multi-booted, say XP and Linux, both would be protected.

No, they don't have to be identical, the array is simply created based on
the smaller of the two. So if you use two different sized HDs, you're
simply wasting some space. But it will work.

Jim
 
AL said:
I've never used an imaging program and am a bit wary of the concept.
My knowledge is limited, but it seems to me that it would be more
foolproof and convenient to have another bootable drive with an exact
copy of the main drive's contents: (OS, programs and data). This way,
if the main drive fails, I can simply set the bios to boot from the
backup drive (or even physically switch the drives, so that no BIOS
changes are required). Is there good justification for this backup
strategy?

If so....
on my Win XP, PC, what is an inexpensive way to copy the contents
of my main 120gb drive (contains my OS, my programs and my data) onto
another drive, so that the other drive is also bootable.

According to a PC World artice, CMS Product's $79 BounceBack
Professional 5.5 does this. But I'm guessing there is a cheaper,
simpler way. Bounceback doesn't seem to have a support site anyway.

After doing the initial copying of all the files, I would then like
a program that automatically backs up only files that are newly
created and all files that are subsequently changed, onto backup
drive, thus maintaining an accurate copy of the main drive as
efficiently as possible.

My main drive is 120gb and my backup drive is only 80gb, however, I
don't anticipate that the 120gb will ever contain anything approaching
80gb of data.

Budget is tight but the program needs to be effective and reliable. If
it's easy to understand and use, that would be good.

Will something as simple as Windows' drag-and-drop, or DOS Xcopy, do
the intitial copying of the main disc effectively? If so, I could then
use a low cost backup program to backup just the files that get
changed or added, yes?

Thank you,

Al D
Click to expand...

I'd suggest you separate the process of backing up the O.S. and programs
from 'data' as they're really different issues. O.S. and programs do not
change nearly as often as data does and, at the worst, are restorable from
the original install CDs.

From a cost standpoint, XP has a built-in backup capability that satisfies
all the criteria you listed for data backup. From XP's help...

Copy backup

A copy backup copies all selected files but does not mark each file as
having been backed up (in other words, the archive attribute is not
cleared). Copying is useful if you want to back up files between normal and
incremental backups because copying does not affect these other backup
operations.

Daily backup

A daily backup copies all selected files that have been modified the day
the daily backup is performed. The backed-up files are not marked as having
been backed up (in other words, the archive attribute is not cleared).

Differential backup

A differential backup copies files created or changed since the last normal
or incremental backup. It does not mark files as having been backed up (in
other words, the archive attribute is not cleared). If you are performing a
combination of normal and differential backups, restoring files and folders
requires that you have the last normal as well as the last differential
backup.

Incremental backup

An incremental backup backs up only those files created or changed since
the last normal or incremental backup. It marks files as having been backed
up (in other words, the archive attribute is cleared). If you use a
combination of normal and incremental backups, you will need to have the
last normal backup set as well as all incremental backup sets in order to
restore your data.

Normal backup

A normal backup copies all selected files and marks each file as having
been backed up (in other words, the archive attribute is cleared). With
normal backups, you need only the most recent copy of the backup file or
tape to restore all of the files. You usually perform a normal backup the
first time you create a backup set.

.......................

XP's backup can also be scheduled to run automatically.

You would, of course, have to have an operational XP system to run backup's
restore process and restore the data to, so...

For imaging system drives I use Ghost but it's a bit pricey. Acronis
trueimage is another good commercial disk imager for a little bit less.

Since you've never used an imaging program, though, and are a bit uneasy
about the process you might want to investigate some freeware tools to get
a feel for the concept. I'll say up front I've not used a one of them but
since they're free...

Here is one that has the advantage of using a windows interface. To restore
a dead system, though, you need something 'windows' that's bootable (the
reason most of them use that 'cryptic' DOS command line) but they show how
to make an XP bootable WinPE CD.

http://www.runtime.org/dixml.htm

http://www.runtime.org/peb.htm

There is also a drive imaging program called DrvImagerXP but last I heard
it was unable to image the system partition. Just mentioned it so you don't
waste time with it.

http://www.lexundesigns.com/ has a program called Lexun Backup Solution. I
haven't a clue about it but the description suggest it can image drives.

A freeware page with some more ideas.

http://www.thefreecountry.com/utilities/backupandimage.shtml



Btw, don't 'experiment' with your business stuff.
 
Many thanks for your helpful suggestions. Before reading the above, I
had already downloaded Acronis Trueimage 9 and it seems surprisingly
straightforward, so far. It seems to do all the important things I
need it to. But I haven't finished trying it out yet...

Al D
 
I have hit an apprent problem doing this. Acronis tells me that if I
clone my system disc, I will then have to remove the old disc! Anyone
know why?

Al D
 
I gather that is because after it has cloned the disc, I will end up
with two C: drives - at least that is what the GUI "before and after"
graphic is indication in the wizard. I'm stumped. Anyone help?

What I want is to clone my C: drive onto my D: drive, but have the D:
drive remain as a D: drive, unless I physically swap it with my C:
drive.

Thanks

Al D
 
AL D said:
Thank you. I am currently downloading the program. Then someone told
me about RAID hard drive controllers! That sounds even better...

Is RAID a practical option for keeping a running identical copy of a
hard drive? Do the two hard drives have to be identical in size?

I looked at the price of RAID controller cards and they appear to be
very cheap.

Thanks

Al D
Click to expand...

you need to select Backup....NOT Clone.

Clone is used when you are replacing your Boot Hard Drive with a new one
 
AL said:
I gather that is because after it has cloned the disc, I will end up
with two C: drives - at least that is what the GUI "before and after"
graphic is indication in the wizard. I'm stumped. Anyone help?

What I want is to clone my C: drive onto my D: drive, but have the D:
drive remain as a D: drive, unless I physically swap it with my C:
drive.

Thanks

Al D
Click to expand...

I'm not familiar enough with Acronis to give exact instructions but look in
their docs for information on disk/partition signatures and what each of
their copy/clone modes/switches do with them.

Old Windows 9x scans the IDE ports on each boot to assign drive letters so
whatever drive is plugged into the Primary IDE port as master will be 'C'
and the next hard drive will be 'D', etc. Windows 2000/XP doesn't work that
way.

In Windows 2000/XP a 'signature' is written to the disks MBR when it is
first detected and a signature is written to each partition when they are
created/detected. Those signatures are also stored in the system registry
with what the letter assignments so no matter where or what the drives, and
the partitions, are plugged into their 'identity' moves with them. 'C' is
'C' no matter where it is and 'D' is 'D'. Windows 'knows'.

The 'clone' option you picked is apparently copying the drive and partition
signatures to the new drive so it looks IDENTICAL to the other, which is
going to confuse Windows and, frankly, I'm not sure exactly what it'll do.
Might decide the first one found is 'it' and then re-signature the others.

It reminds me, though, that this is one of the problems with trying to have
a 'live copy' of the system partition on a second hard drive. The copy will
have the same registry information as the first (saying that drive 1 is C
and drive 2 is D) but when you try to boot from the second drive, after the
primary dies, the disk and partition signatures will be wrong since it's
signature will be 'D' (or whatever it was when the copy was made) and when
the O.S. tries to find 'C' (where the registry says the system is located)
it won't be there because that's the one that's dead and gone. You get a
blue halt screen with "unable to mount system device" message.

Worse yet, if you test it with the old drive still in the system it'll
appear to work because it'll find the original as 'C', just like it's
signature says it is, and everything will look just fine except the system
will be booting from 'D' (you told it to) but running off of 'C' (the
registry tells it to).

I know the hard way to fix it, rewrite the MBR before booting off the
backup drive as the new primary so it clears the signature and windows
redectects them, but I'm not sure how to make it automatic with a backup
when you want to leave the drive in the system. Backup with it clearing the
drive signature but it's going to write a new signature as soon as the
primary sees it again... but if it doesn't match what was in the registry
when copied.... hmm. That might work.
 
Thanks. But if I do that, will the backup result in a bootable disk?
That is what I want: two bootable had drives, one the same as the
other except for the drive letter.

Al D
 
AL Dwrote
On 29 Dec 2005 13:15:59 +0100, "MJP" <[email protected]
wrote
Acronis trueimage will do exactly what you want i.e. clone you dis
directly to another disk or create a disk image on removeable media Creat
incremental images, scheduling etc etc
Click to expand...
Thank you. I am currently downloading the program. Then someone tol
me about RAID hard drive controllers! That sounds even better..

Is RAID a practical option for keeping a running identical copy of
hard drive? Do the two hard drives have to be identical in size

I looked at the price of RAID controller cards and they appear to b
very cheap

Thank

Yes, RAID is a viable option that I've been using ever since it wa
invented for the PC. Now, I run DUAL RAID 1 on a pair of 120's and
pair of 80 Maxtor serial drives

Both hard drives need either to be the same size, or the RAIDed driv
must be bigger

RAID is a system, as such it has it's own quirks. Experience is th
best teacher

ONLY go with a Sil card

Al D[/quote:f97221acbe
 
AL Dwrote:
Thank you. I am currently downloading the program. Then someone told
me about RAID hard drive controllers! That sounds even better...

Is RAID a practical option for keeping a running identical copy of a
hard drive? Do the two hard drives have to be identical in size?

I looked at the price of RAID controller cards and they appear to be
very cheap.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Go with RAID 1. You will have an identical backup of your entire hard drive
without hassle. If your hard drives are different in size, than the smaller
sized hard drive will be the maximum size for the RAID. Plus, RAID 1 has a
bit of an imporved read performance but a slightly slower write performance.
But I doubt you will notice a big difference.

As for a control card, look at your mobo specs, you might already have it.
 
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