Where are these files

  • Thread starter Thread starter Will Denny
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Will Denny

Hi

They are still on the hard disk, but may be difficult to retrieve.

--


Will Denny

MS MVP Shell/User
Please Reply to the News Groups
 
When files are deleted (not sent to the recycle bin, but deleted) where
are they stored?

(I know they are stored somewhere, because an attempt at downloading a new
copy resurrects the old one almost instantly and I never, ever use the
recycle bin on downloads I suspect to be bad.)


JimL
 
'JimL' wrote:
| When files are deleted (not sent to the recycle bin, but deleted) where
| are they stored?
|
| (I know they are stored somewhere, because an attempt at downloading a new
| copy resurrects the old one almost instantly and I never, ever use the
| recycle bin on downloads I suspect to be bad.)
_____

When files are deleted from a hard drive, the information remains in the
original physical location on the hard drive. The only change made by a
file deletion NOT using the recycle bin in the NTFS file system is that the
locations where a file is stored are now marked free and available for use
in the Master File Table and the entry for the file and its list of storage
locations is removed. As the system continues to be used these locations
are overwritten with parts of a new file (when a deletion is made USING the
recycle bin the MFT entry for the file remains and the locations are not
marked free for use until the recycle bin is filled.)

What you are noticing is not, I think, that the data remains, at least
partially on the hard drive (which it does, though its location is no longer
retained, and so the data would be extremely difficult to recover) but that
when you downloaded the file was kept in a temporary folder and THAT is the
cause of " ...an attempt at downloading a new copy resurrects the old one
almost instantly". As you gave no details about HOW you downloaded, this
is a guess.

Phil Weldon


| When files are deleted (not sent to the recycle bin, but deleted) where
| are they stored?
|
| (I know they are stored somewhere, because an attempt at downloading a new
| copy resurrects the old one almost instantly and I never, ever use the
| recycle bin on downloads I suspect to be bad.)
|
|
| JimL
|
| --
|
| Those who want to know most need to know least.
|
 
To finish what is said in the Phil's message in an attempt
to fix your problem, if you reboot your system and then
delete all temporary internet files (with Internet Explorer
open, click on Tools, Options and then Delete Files from
Temporary Internet files area of Internet Options) from your
computer prior to re-downloading this should fix your
problem.

Hope this helps, let us know.
 
When files are deleted (not sent to the recycle bin, but deleted) where
are they stored?
Click to expand...

They're not stored; they're *deleted.* (Actually, technically, they're
still in the exact same place on the hard drive, but the space they
occupied has been flagged as "available" by the file system, so they'll
soon be over-written.

(I know they are stored somewhere, because an attempt at downloading a new
copy resurrects the old one almost instantly and I never, ever use the
recycle bin on downloads I suspect to be bad.)
Click to expand...

What, specifically, do you mean by "resurrected.?" The actual files
that you've deleted magically reappear?


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
 
When files are deleted (not sent to the recycle bin, but deleted)
where are they stored?
Click to expand...


The same place they were in before being deleted. Here's my standard post on
this subject:

"Deleting" a file doesn't actually delete it; it just marks the space as
available to be used. There are third-party programs that can sometimes
recover deleted files. The problem is that the space used by the file is
likely to become overwritten very quickly, and this makes the file
unrecoverable.



So your chances of successfully recovering this file are decent if you try
recovering it immediately after deleting it, and rapidly go downhill from
there. If you've been using the computer since then (for example to write
this question and read this answer), your chances are probably very poor by
now.



But if the file is important enough, it's worth a try anyway. Stop using the
computer in question immediately, if you haven't done so already. Download
an undelete program (here's one:
http://www3.telus.net/mikebike/RESTORATION.html but there are several others
to choose from; do a Google search) on a friend's computer and bring it
yours on a floppy to try.



If this fails, your only other recourse is to take the drive to a
professional file recovery company. This kind of service is very expensive
and may or may not work in your case.
 
'Ken Blake' wrote, in part:
| The same place they were in before being deleted. Here's my standard post
on
| this subject:
..
..
| If this fails, your only other recourse is to take the drive to a
| professional file recovery company. This kind of service is very expensive
| and may or may not work in your case.
_____

The original post was more on the order of NOT recovering the file, as I
understood it, but rather avoiding recovery of the original download when
another attempt to download the same file is made:
"(I know they are stored somewhere, because an attempt at downloading a new
copy resurrects the old one almost instantly and I never, ever use the
recycle bin on downloads I suspect to be bad.)".

The answer is that the originally downloaded file is NOT being recovered
from the 'deleted' copy, but from a temporary file created by whatever
download (unspecified) used by the original poster.

Phil Weldon

| (e-mail address removed) wrote:
|
| > When files are deleted (not sent to the recycle bin, but deleted)
| > where are they stored?
|
|
| The same place they were in before being deleted. Here's my standard post
on
| this subject:
|
| "Deleting" a file doesn't actually delete it; it just marks the space as
| available to be used. There are third-party programs that can sometimes
| recover deleted files. The problem is that the space used by the file is
| likely to become overwritten very quickly, and this makes the file
| unrecoverable.
|
|
|
| So your chances of successfully recovering this file are decent if you try
| recovering it immediately after deleting it, and rapidly go downhill from
| there. If you've been using the computer since then (for example to write
| this question and read this answer), your chances are probably very poor
by
| now.
|
|
|
| But if the file is important enough, it's worth a try anyway. Stop using
the
| computer in question immediately, if you haven't done so already. Download
| an undelete program (here's one:
| http://www3.telus.net/mikebike/RESTORATION.html but there are several
others
| to choose from; do a Google search) on a friend's computer and bring it
| yours on a floppy to try.
|
|
|
| If this fails, your only other recourse is to take the drive to a
| professional file recovery company. This kind of service is very expensive
| and may or may not work in your case.
|
|
| --
| Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
| Please reply to the newsgroup
|
|
 
Phil Weldon said:
not, I think, that the data remains, at least
partially on the hard drive (which it does, though its location is no
longer retained, and so the data would be extremely difficult to
recover) but that when you downloaded the file was kept in a temporary
folder and THAT is the cause
Click to expand...

I'm aware of how files are normally supposed to be (so called) deleted,
including the assumption of subsequent overwriting, etc.

I'm not certain what you mean by temporary file. I always download to a
temporary directory using a download manager (assuming it isn't an
auto-update or something like that) and if the installation goes well I
then move it to an external hard drive archive directory in case I need to
use it again.

If it doesn't install right, the temporary directory is where I delete it
from - not using recycle. If the system somehow stows an _extra_ copy of
it somewhere that would be the location my post is asking for.

Thanks

JimL
 
I don't know what problem you are referring to. I merely asked where
these files were stashed. (I have found that deleting temporary internet
files doesn't necessarily eliminate the resurrection syndrome. The best
method I've found for that is putting the file in a temp directory and
deleting the directory.)
To finish what is said in the Phil's message in an attempt
to fix your problem, if you reboot your system and then
delete all temporary internet files (with Internet Explorer open, click
on Tools, Options and then Delete Files from
Temporary Internet files area of Internet Options) from your computer
prior to re-downloading this should fix your
problem.
Click to expand...
Hope this helps, let us know.

> 'JimL'
wrote:
Click to expand...




JimL
 
What, specifically, do you mean by "resurrected.?" The actual files
that you've deleted magically reappear?
Click to expand...

I mean that after deleting a file that wouldn't install correctly,
starting a new download of that file makes it reappear in a matter of
seconds. As I said, I DELETE these - they are NOT in the recycle bin.
Also, it doesn't matter much if the file is 700KB or 100MB, it still
reappears very quickly. The only logical answer I can think of is that,
like a lot of other things, it gets hidden somewhere instead of "deleted."

Thanks

JimL
 
Ken Blake said:
So your chances of successfully recovering this file are decent
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to recover anything. Deleted files reappear "out of
nowhere" when I try to re-download them, unless I take special measures to
get rid of them. I am also not asking how to get rid of them - I already
know.

XP is new to me, but I've learned that there is a L-O-T of stuff stashed
and stored that the average user, perhaps a lot of IM people, never know
about.

Thanks.

JimL
 
What, specifically, do you mean by "resurrected.?" The actual files
that you've deleted magically reappear?
Click to expand...

It just occurred to me that this is the same as trying to ger rid of a
virus. At least some virus cleaners tell you to turn off the Restore
feature during removal operations. Apparently I have been experiencing
some sort of restore phenomenon.

Thanks

JimL
 
'JimL' wrote:
| I'm not trying to recover anything. Deleted files reappear "out of
| nowhere" when I try to re-download them, unless I take special measures to
| get rid of them. I am also not asking how to get rid of them - I already
| know.
|
| XP is new to me, but I've learned that there is a L-O-T of stuff stashed
| and stored that the average user, perhaps a lot of IM people, never know
| about.
_____

If you would describe the method you use to download, you could get more apt
answers. All the replies to your original post have had correct
information, but some miss the mark since we don't know exactly what how you
are downloading (using a download manager, for example.)

I recognize most of the poster who replied to you as knowledgeable
contributors to this newsgroup.

Phil Weldon

| "Ken Blake" <[email protected]> said:
|
| >So your chances of successfully recovering this file are decent
|
| I'm not trying to recover anything. Deleted files reappear "out of
| nowhere" when I try to re-download them, unless I take special measures to
| get rid of them. I am also not asking how to get rid of them - I already
| know.
|
| XP is new to me, but I've learned that there is a L-O-T of stuff stashed
| and stored that the average user, perhaps a lot of IM people, never know
| about.
|
| Thanks.
|
| JimL
|
| --
|
| Everybody should know everything about everything and everybody - except
for almost everybody
 
What download manager?
Check it's directories, it is probably stashing a copy so it can appear
faster if you try that file another time.

Regards
Mark Dormer
 
Almost everyone who posts an original message here has a
problem that they need help resolving. Had you mentioned
that you use a download manager to download files, I would
have pointed you in a different direction (as others have
done since your follow up post to others) than my solution.
People who don't post full information (name of download
manager, make & model of computer, program name, etc.) get
help that may not fit their situation. No one on this NG are
mind readers.

The problem as you described it was that you were attempting
to redownload a file that was already stored on your hard
drive, probably in the temporary internet files folder and
the OS is smart enough to recognize that it is still there
so why should the OS tie up bandwidth to download it again.
My fix will remove the temporary file to allow a full
download again. And I did tell you where the files are
normally "stashed" when you download unless you specify a
different place. You say that "the best method", well
obviously it doesn't work well for you if you can't find the
files you downloaded.
 
I mean that after deleting a file that wouldn't install correctly,
starting a new download of that file makes it reappear in a matter of
seconds. As I said, I DELETE these - they are NOT in the recycle bin.
Also, it doesn't matter much if the file is 700KB or 100MB, it still
reappears very quickly. The only logical answer I can think of is that,
like a lot of other things, it gets hidden somewhere instead of "deleted."
Click to expand...


Ah, now I see. When IE downloads a file from the Internet, it first
saves the file to a temporary location to "re-assemble" it, and then it
copies the file to the target location you specified. You're apparently
not clearing out your temporary Internet files very often, so, when IE
is told to download the same file again and looks for a temporary work
space for it, it sees the file's already on the hard drive. Thinking
itself very clever for saving you the download time, it simply recopies
the temporary work file to the target location.

So, you're correct, in a way. When you delete the file, presumably a
program of some sort, you're only deleting the finished product from the
targeted save area; you're not deleting the temporary work file. This
isn't likely to ever cause any problems, but on those rare instances
when you truly want/need a fresh download of something you've already
recently downloaded (not the sort of situation that would arise very
often), simply clear out all of your temporary Internet files first.

In IE7, click Tools > Internet Options > Advanced > Security, and
select "Empty Temporary Internet Files folder when browser is closed."
I believe it was different for IE6, so someone who still has IE6 will
have to contribute that bit.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
 
LVTravel said:
The problem as you described it was that you were attempting to
redownload a file that was already stored on your hard drive,
Click to expand...

The "problem" as I described it was simply a curiosity about where
"deleted" files actually go. I was not searching for anything. I was not
trying to download anything.

And, frankly, if I knew exactly how to deliniate all angles of the issue
and ask the technologically perfect question I would probably already know
the answer. I know from reading many, many such complaints that techno
types always want questions asked as if the questioner were a professional
techie himself, but expecting technically perfect questions from someone
whose personal expertise is in a totally different field is a pipe dream.
Does a non-chemist know how to ask perfect questions about efficiently
synthesizing compounds that have never existed before?

JimL
 
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