G
Guest
when Windows Vista comes out will it come iwth new a new pc?
Like when u buy a PC in 2007 will it come iwth Windows Vista?
Like when u buy a PC in 2007 will it come iwth Windows Vista?
C
Colin Barnhorst
Yes. The edition will depend on whether or not you get a media center pc.
If not, you will get Home Basic. If so, you will get Home Premium. You
will have the option to upgrade to Ultimate online for a fee (Instant
Upgrade site). All editions will already be on the dvd and the Product Key
you purchase online will simply unlock the Ultimate edition bits.
If not, you will get Home Basic. If so, you will get Home Premium. You
will have the option to upgrade to Ultimate online for a fee (Instant
Upgrade site). All editions will already be on the dvd and the Product Key
you purchase online will simply unlock the Ultimate edition bits.
J
Jane C
You will be able to buy a new pc with Vista preinstalled, or you may buy a
full retail copy or an upgrade version of Vista to install on your current
pc, depending on whether your current operating system qualifies for upgrade
pricing.
full retail copy or an upgrade version of Vista to install on your current
pc, depending on whether your current operating system qualifies for upgrade
pricing.
C
Chad Harris
You bet your registry it will considering these financials.
http://software.seekingalpha.com/article/4169
OEM it go up near 20%; Retail it go down near 20%. 300 OEM Name Partners
Big Mucho Big Companies they can send you crap on a stick on a disc and
partition you no recover nothing you can no do Repair Install the XP you can
no do Win RE the Vista (it no work big percent of time Win RE team no
fixee).
They no give OEM preinstall suckers way to fix when OS break with pretty
blue screen no go up to Windows. If you pay mucho bucks to big company (your
hard earned money) you tell them you want an Operating System full retail
media all the code--none of the crap they would have sent you. Tell them
where to put the crap they wanted to send you or you will put your buisness
elsewhere.
Here are the figures that back up what I said.
Scott di Valerio is the guy who couldn't give a rat's ass if you recover
from your broken OS. He's OEM VP. His background is accounting. He
worked at Price Waterhouse for 15 years. That has a lot more to do with
money than it has to do with software engineering and software quality. His
job is to make sure that suckers who pay thousands of dollars for OEM
machiens are given the shaft when it comes to fixing the operating system
that pays for most of his salary.
"Now, let's move onto a discussion of revenue by business segment. Client
revenue grew 7% on the strength of PC unit growth of 15% to 17%. Since
roughly 80% of Client sales are earned through the OEM channel, it is
important to capture the market unit growth. Our OEM license units growth of
18% is a good indicator that we were successful. The OEM license growth of
18% translated into client OEM revenue growth of 13%, primarily due to the
combined impact of two factors, both of which negatively impacted our OEM
pricing mix first, the shift in channel mix toward larger OEMs with volume
pricing and second, the relative strength of the consumer segment in the PC
market.
During the quarter, commercial and retail licensing of Windows operating
systems declined by 19%, as customers choose to upgrade their PC operating
systems through the OEM channel when they replace their PCs versus the
purchase of a volume licensing agreement. I should also remind you that we
had a relatively strong retail sales in the first quarter last year, in
conjunction with the release of Windows XP SP2, which negatively impacted
the year-over-year growth comparisons."
The OEMs were able to push Softysoft into a deal where you buy their
computer for your Christmas holiday pleasure you get an upgrade certificate
for ole Vista. How much it will be worth upgrading to it with that
certificate is a very large question looming at this moment.
Will they ship crap in a box or give it the time it needs to be less crap.
Stay tuned.
CH
http://software.seekingalpha.com/article/4169
OEM it go up near 20%; Retail it go down near 20%. 300 OEM Name Partners
Big Mucho Big Companies they can send you crap on a stick on a disc and
partition you no recover nothing you can no do Repair Install the XP you can
no do Win RE the Vista (it no work big percent of time Win RE team no
fixee).
They no give OEM preinstall suckers way to fix when OS break with pretty
blue screen no go up to Windows. If you pay mucho bucks to big company (your
hard earned money) you tell them you want an Operating System full retail
media all the code--none of the crap they would have sent you. Tell them
where to put the crap they wanted to send you or you will put your buisness
elsewhere.
Here are the figures that back up what I said.
Scott di Valerio is the guy who couldn't give a rat's ass if you recover
from your broken OS. He's OEM VP. His background is accounting. He
worked at Price Waterhouse for 15 years. That has a lot more to do with
money than it has to do with software engineering and software quality. His
job is to make sure that suckers who pay thousands of dollars for OEM
machiens are given the shaft when it comes to fixing the operating system
that pays for most of his salary.
"Now, let's move onto a discussion of revenue by business segment. Client
revenue grew 7% on the strength of PC unit growth of 15% to 17%. Since
roughly 80% of Client sales are earned through the OEM channel, it is
important to capture the market unit growth. Our OEM license units growth of
18% is a good indicator that we were successful. The OEM license growth of
18% translated into client OEM revenue growth of 13%, primarily due to the
combined impact of two factors, both of which negatively impacted our OEM
pricing mix first, the shift in channel mix toward larger OEMs with volume
pricing and second, the relative strength of the consumer segment in the PC
market.
During the quarter, commercial and retail licensing of Windows operating
systems declined by 19%, as customers choose to upgrade their PC operating
systems through the OEM channel when they replace their PCs versus the
purchase of a volume licensing agreement. I should also remind you that we
had a relatively strong retail sales in the first quarter last year, in
conjunction with the release of Windows XP SP2, which negatively impacted
the year-over-year growth comparisons."
The OEMs were able to push Softysoft into a deal where you buy their
computer for your Christmas holiday pleasure you get an upgrade certificate
for ole Vista. How much it will be worth upgrading to it with that
certificate is a very large question looming at this moment.
Will they ship crap in a box or give it the time it needs to be less crap.
Stay tuned.
CH
J
John Jay Smith
You can even build your own PC and get an OEM version of vista,
if you want to save some money.. but have in mind that OEM
even though it is cheaper, it will be tied to that specific computer. ***
but XP will still be available for those who want something simple,
fast and effective...(vista is not)
*** a lot of speculation on what actually IS your computer. Because
you can upgrade various components slowly, ending up with a new computer
and NOT getting locked out of activation. So if you buy an OEM license
tied with a hardware like a cable (something that is possible from various
retailers), then as long as you have that cable you are ok with the EULA.
if you want to save some money.. but have in mind that OEM
even though it is cheaper, it will be tied to that specific computer. ***
but XP will still be available for those who want something simple,
fast and effective...(vista is not)
*** a lot of speculation on what actually IS your computer. Because
you can upgrade various components slowly, ending up with a new computer
and NOT getting locked out of activation. So if you buy an OEM license
tied with a hardware like a cable (something that is possible from various
retailers), then as long as you have that cable you are ok with the EULA.
C
Colin Barnhorst
Not true. Once enough of the ten hardware characteristics used in the
hardware hash have changed it is no longer the same computer and the OEM
license in no longer valid. A cable would not have any bearing on it. You
cannot call a computer the same computer if all that remains of the original
are, for example, the case and the power supply.
Components that are considered hardware characteristics include the NIC,
BIOS id, system drive, first optical drive, amount of memory, cpu, chipset,
audio adaptor, video adaptor, and one or two similar items. Although the
mobo is not one of the hardware characteristics, several hardware
characterisitics are usually built into them and changing out the mobo, cpu,
and increasing the amount of ram is enough to define the system as a new
computer.
hardware hash have changed it is no longer the same computer and the OEM
license in no longer valid. A cable would not have any bearing on it. You
cannot call a computer the same computer if all that remains of the original
are, for example, the case and the power supply.
Components that are considered hardware characteristics include the NIC,
BIOS id, system drive, first optical drive, amount of memory, cpu, chipset,
audio adaptor, video adaptor, and one or two similar items. Although the
mobo is not one of the hardware characteristics, several hardware
characterisitics are usually built into them and changing out the mobo, cpu,
and increasing the amount of ram is enough to define the system as a new
computer.
J
John Jay Smith
Please correct me if I am wrong...
Activation will work as long as you have less than 3 vital hardware changes
at the same time (nic for example is one).
Activation "forgets" prior changes after each 3 months.
Lots of sellers sell OEM with ANY hardware, even a mouse. So if you retain
your mouse,
legally you are in compliance with the EULA. I am talking about laws here
not logic.
So this is an argument that I think stands. It is possible to slowly change
all the components of
a computer one by one by upgrading them over a long period of time and
activation will work.
Also you will be in compliance with EULA since your mouse will be intact.
Say a person is NOT doing this on purpose to cheat MS out of its bucks. Say
this person is extremely unlucky..
and over a period of 2 years all of his components die and gets replaced one
by one. First its the HDD,
then after a few months the CPU fries, then after a few months, the ram
dies, and so on....
Can this be done in theory? I see no reason why MS should not let you
upgrade-replace any ONE component
of your computer each 3 months. Note: Some tricky management may be needed,
for example if you change
your motherboard you must be careful to disable the onboard nic for example
to limit the amount of new hardware changed.
Although I have not tried this, when I proposed this scenario to the MS
MVPs, they could not seem to find
any reason why theoretically this cannot work.. all they could say was
object that you cant buy OEM with a mouse.
But this has been proven to be correct in the real world. If you dont
believe me perhaps google will reveal this to you.
This is why I have stated that you cannot DEFINE what is YOUR COMPUTER. It
is not the motherboard, nor the CPU,
nor the RAM.... it is like your body that replaces cells according to dna,
after several years almost all of your cells have been
replaced although you say it is still you, all the material that was you is
no longer you.
What you could say is YOU is your soul,
(if you are not an atheist that is) but computers have no soul, therefore
they cannot be defined with the previous logic.
HA!
Activation will work as long as you have less than 3 vital hardware changes
at the same time (nic for example is one).
Activation "forgets" prior changes after each 3 months.
Lots of sellers sell OEM with ANY hardware, even a mouse. So if you retain
your mouse,
legally you are in compliance with the EULA. I am talking about laws here
not logic.
So this is an argument that I think stands. It is possible to slowly change
all the components of
a computer one by one by upgrading them over a long period of time and
activation will work.
Also you will be in compliance with EULA since your mouse will be intact.
Say a person is NOT doing this on purpose to cheat MS out of its bucks. Say
this person is extremely unlucky..
and over a period of 2 years all of his components die and gets replaced one
by one. First its the HDD,
then after a few months the CPU fries, then after a few months, the ram
dies, and so on....
Can this be done in theory? I see no reason why MS should not let you
upgrade-replace any ONE component
of your computer each 3 months. Note: Some tricky management may be needed,
for example if you change
your motherboard you must be careful to disable the onboard nic for example
to limit the amount of new hardware changed.
Although I have not tried this, when I proposed this scenario to the MS
MVPs, they could not seem to find
any reason why theoretically this cannot work.. all they could say was
object that you cant buy OEM with a mouse.
But this has been proven to be correct in the real world. If you dont
believe me perhaps google will reveal this to you.
This is why I have stated that you cannot DEFINE what is YOUR COMPUTER. It
is not the motherboard, nor the CPU,
nor the RAM.... it is like your body that replaces cells according to dna,
after several years almost all of your cells have been
replaced although you say it is still you, all the material that was you is
no longer you.
What you could say is YOU is your soul,(if you are not an atheist that is) but computers have no soul, therefore
they cannot be defined with the previous logic.
HA!
K
Kevin Panzke
Product Activation does indeed forget prior hardware changes after 120
day's, just FYI.
day's, just FYI.
K
Kerry Brown
Colin said:
Activating has nothing to do with licensing. You could have an invalid
license that may activate. You also may have a valid license that won't
activate over the Internet and needs a phone call to activate.
The OEM System Builder license changed last year. Here are the current
rules.
According to the current OEM SBL, which can be found here
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/sblicense/default.mspx
there is no requirement to sell hardware with the OEM product and the
motherboard defines the computer. There is a requirement that OEM OS
software be sold only in unopened OEM packs to other system builders. If any
of this pertains to Vista only time will tell. The OEM System Builder
license for Vista may be totally different.
Please note: I don't wish to start a debate on the morality or ethics of a
motherboard defining a computer or the fact that many retailers ignore the
SBL. I am just stating what the current OEM System Builder license says. If
you want to make sure you have a legitimate OEM license without it being
installed on a computer then the software should come in a large softpack
envelope with the SBL on the outside. If it comes in a shrink wrap package
with the COA visible then whoever is selling it is not abiding by the
current SBL and the software is suspect. It is either counterfeit or it is
from an opened multi pack.
J
John Jay Smith
I took a look at this:
http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/English_SB_License.pdf
where does it say that the mothrboard defines the computer?
http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/English_SB_License.pdf
where does it say that the mothrboard defines the computer?
G
Guess Who
Whatever all this is supposed to mean, some companies, like DELL offer an
option to get the OS CD. If you order it with the system it is an additional
$7.00 USD. Or, if you order it after you receive the system, within the
first 21 days, they will send it to you for nothing.
Some others (HP and some DELL models) will create an image of the OS install
on the hard drive, which you can burn one time. Either way, if the machine
is under warranty, most PC vendors would allow you to retrieve another copy
of the OS in some form or fashion if need be.
If you get a complete restore disc set, like my Toshiba laptop, then you
just reinstall everything when needed. It is the users responsibility to
make sure everything important is backed up in case the hard drive needs to
be wiped, or fails. I have not seen a single PC for sale that did not
include some type of writeable disc drive (CD or DVD). And every PC sold
comes with USB ports, to which you can attach a USB flash drive if need be
to back up data.
VP does not count for much anymore, especially in larger corporations. In
the company I work for, there are almost as many VPs as there are clerks,
and VP's do not get an office, they sit amongst the clerks.
All that aside, I wonder if MS will allow you to purchase an instant upgrade
of an OEM pre-installed copy of XP? I would assume you would need the DVD to
upgrade as I am sure they will not include the entire suite of Vista
products within the recovery option.
They way it is now, you cannot use a recovery set (which completely restores
a PC to factory conditions) to do an upgrade of ANY OS that requires the OS
CD for verification. I have, on many occasions, used my DELL OEM version
CDs to upgrade to a newer OS (Wn 95 to 98, for example). I would presume the
only way you can purchase an upgrade license key for Vista is to already
have a complete DVD install disc, but maybe I am wrong. I guess we will not
know until it's actually released.
I can't quite decipher all of what you are saying, and the facts and figures
quoted really don't mean much outside of initial build and ship of the PC's.
Any responsible corporation must support their end users, even if they don't
make it easy to get that support. Many people will give up, but you, as an
end user and consumer, need to be patient and persistent.
I'd also like to know, where on record, An HP VP states he does not give a
rat's ass if HP's clients cannot recover their OS. That would make an
interesting investigation for consumer groups. You are just making an
assumption on that one, I'm sure.
option to get the OS CD. If you order it with the system it is an additional
$7.00 USD. Or, if you order it after you receive the system, within the
first 21 days, they will send it to you for nothing.
Some others (HP and some DELL models) will create an image of the OS install
on the hard drive, which you can burn one time. Either way, if the machine
is under warranty, most PC vendors would allow you to retrieve another copy
of the OS in some form or fashion if need be.
If you get a complete restore disc set, like my Toshiba laptop, then you
just reinstall everything when needed. It is the users responsibility to
make sure everything important is backed up in case the hard drive needs to
be wiped, or fails. I have not seen a single PC for sale that did not
include some type of writeable disc drive (CD or DVD). And every PC sold
comes with USB ports, to which you can attach a USB flash drive if need be
to back up data.
VP does not count for much anymore, especially in larger corporations. In
the company I work for, there are almost as many VPs as there are clerks,
and VP's do not get an office, they sit amongst the clerks.
All that aside, I wonder if MS will allow you to purchase an instant upgrade
of an OEM pre-installed copy of XP? I would assume you would need the DVD to
upgrade as I am sure they will not include the entire suite of Vista
products within the recovery option.
They way it is now, you cannot use a recovery set (which completely restores
a PC to factory conditions) to do an upgrade of ANY OS that requires the OS
CD for verification. I have, on many occasions, used my DELL OEM version
CDs to upgrade to a newer OS (Wn 95 to 98, for example). I would presume the
only way you can purchase an upgrade license key for Vista is to already
have a complete DVD install disc, but maybe I am wrong. I guess we will not
know until it's actually released.
I can't quite decipher all of what you are saying, and the facts and figures
quoted really don't mean much outside of initial build and ship of the PC's.
Any responsible corporation must support their end users, even if they don't
make it easy to get that support. Many people will give up, but you, as an
end user and consumer, need to be patient and persistent.
I'd also like to know, where on record, An HP VP states he does not give a
rat's ass if HP's clients cannot recover their OS. That would make an
interesting investigation for consumer groups. You are just making an
assumption on that one, I'm sure.
G
Guess Who
If you are talking about an OEM copy that comes with a purchased PC, like
DELL, I know that DELL OEM discs are tied to the system BIOS and do not need
activation. You can change EVERYTHING in the PC, as I have done, and the OEM
installer will not balk, nor would you need to activate. As long as
everything is installed on a DELL motherboard, it will work, and should not
violate any EULA.
A purchased OEM copy of the OS, will need to be reactivated if the hardware
changes are severe, but you can call up to reactivate. I purchased an OEM
copy of XP along with a CD audio cable many years ago. I have activated that
copy many many many times over the years on new PC's that I have built -
keeping that cable installed. MS never gave me a problem about activating
when I had to call. As long as I only use that copy of the OS on a single
machine, with the original hardware that it came with, I am not breaking any
EULA.
I am sure if this practice was in violation of the EULA, MS would have
stopped this long ago. The OEM copies can be purchased at reputable on line
retailers, so it is not exactly an underground secret of where these can be
purchased.
DELL, I know that DELL OEM discs are tied to the system BIOS and do not need
activation. You can change EVERYTHING in the PC, as I have done, and the OEM
installer will not balk, nor would you need to activate. As long as
everything is installed on a DELL motherboard, it will work, and should not
violate any EULA.
A purchased OEM copy of the OS, will need to be reactivated if the hardware
changes are severe, but you can call up to reactivate. I purchased an OEM
copy of XP along with a CD audio cable many years ago. I have activated that
copy many many many times over the years on new PC's that I have built -
keeping that cable installed. MS never gave me a problem about activating
when I had to call. As long as I only use that copy of the OS on a single
machine, with the original hardware that it came with, I am not breaking any
EULA.
I am sure if this practice was in violation of the EULA, MS would have
stopped this long ago. The OEM copies can be purchased at reputable on line
retailers, so it is not exactly an underground secret of where these can be
purchased.
C
Colin Barnhorst
You are relying on second-hand info. There is plenty in the MS KB on
"activation." There you will find that a change of seven of the ten
hardware characteristics will redifine the machine.
What hardware vendors sell with an OEM cd has only to do with some legal
issues between MS and resellers about the sale of OEM cd's, not between MS
and users about the installation and operation of the software and the EULA.
A mouse has nothing to do with the EULA. I don't know who told you it did.
I think you have just assumed that since including a mouse made the sale OK
that it had something to do with it. Including the mouse just satisfies a
legal question concerning the right of the reseller to offer the software
for sale.
The EULA is only in effect once the OS is installed on a computer and at
that point an OEM EULA ties the software to the computer it is first
installed on. The EULA is not in effect at the time you purchase the
software no matter who you get it from. You must install the software
before the EULA has anything to do with it.
The reason MS introduced Windows Genuine Advantage validation was to curb
the use of things like OEM copies of Windows and Office in violation of the
EULA.
"activation." There you will find that a change of seven of the ten
hardware characteristics will redifine the machine.
What hardware vendors sell with an OEM cd has only to do with some legal
issues between MS and resellers about the sale of OEM cd's, not between MS
and users about the installation and operation of the software and the EULA.
A mouse has nothing to do with the EULA. I don't know who told you it did.
I think you have just assumed that since including a mouse made the sale OK
that it had something to do with it. Including the mouse just satisfies a
legal question concerning the right of the reseller to offer the software
for sale.
The EULA is only in effect once the OS is installed on a computer and at
that point an OEM EULA ties the software to the computer it is first
installed on. The EULA is not in effect at the time you purchase the
software no matter who you get it from. You must install the software
before the EULA has anything to do with it.
The reason MS introduced Windows Genuine Advantage validation was to curb
the use of things like OEM copies of Windows and Office in violation of the
EULA.
J
John Jay Smith
ok so what are you saying here?
Can you get XPOEM with a mouse? Yes. Is it legal. Yes.
Can you install it on a pc? Yes. Can you then replace ALL the components
over a long period of time
one by one without a problem with activation? Yes.
Is this against the EULA. Nope!
So whats your problem? You dont want to do this? Great! But it is possible,
and there is no law
or agreement that says you cannot replace any component of your pc if it
breaks down, since as I said,
no single component IS the PC. Someone here claimed that for Microsoft the
motherboard is the pc.
I am still waiting for proof that will show this.
Can you get XPOEM with a mouse? Yes. Is it legal. Yes.
Can you install it on a pc? Yes. Can you then replace ALL the components
over a long period of time
one by one without a problem with activation? Yes.
Is this against the EULA. Nope!
So whats your problem? You dont want to do this? Great! But it is possible,
and there is no law
or agreement that says you cannot replace any component of your pc if it
breaks down, since as I said,
no single component IS the PC. Someone here claimed that for Microsoft the
motherboard is the pc.
I am still waiting for proof that will show this.
C
Colin Barnhorst
No. You cannot replace one piece at a time to avoid triggering
reactivation. Each time you start Windows the OS compares the hardware with
the currently stored hardware hash. There are fields in the hardware hash
for each of the hardware characteristics that Activation is tracking. If
one of the ten fields in the hardware hash hashes to a new value, then a
flag is set for that field. When enough flags are set reactivation is
triggered.
It does not matter whether you change a bunch of things and then do one
restart or change one thing and then restart and then another thing and
restart, etc. The same number of flags will set and eventually trigger
reactivation.
Note that once you change one of the hardware characteristics you can keep
on changing that same item all you want without affecting the flag again
until reactivation has happened, at which point all the flags are set back
to "unchanged." If you wanted to experiment with video cards you could swap
out a dozen different ones and only the first swap you did would set a flag.
Or if all you change is ram (say you are troubleshooting a problem) and you
keep changing it back and forth, you will not trigger reactivation. You can
add and remove hard drives willy nilly, but only if you replace the system
drive does it matter at all.
And so on.
The Activation software does not have a field for the mobo. But at least
half the hardware characteristics tracked are usually built into the mobo.
The reference to the mobo defining a new computer would have to do with
definitions for determining valid licensing, not for activation.
Activation enables MS to track the fact that a copy of Windows is installed
and something about the hardware characteristics of the machine. Windows
Genuine Advantage enables MS to identify licensing issues with that
installation. It seems that there has been considerable abuse of volume
licensing.
reactivation. Each time you start Windows the OS compares the hardware with
the currently stored hardware hash. There are fields in the hardware hash
for each of the hardware characteristics that Activation is tracking. If
one of the ten fields in the hardware hash hashes to a new value, then a
flag is set for that field. When enough flags are set reactivation is
triggered.
It does not matter whether you change a bunch of things and then do one
restart or change one thing and then restart and then another thing and
restart, etc. The same number of flags will set and eventually trigger
reactivation.
Note that once you change one of the hardware characteristics you can keep
on changing that same item all you want without affecting the flag again
until reactivation has happened, at which point all the flags are set back
to "unchanged." If you wanted to experiment with video cards you could swap
out a dozen different ones and only the first swap you did would set a flag.
Or if all you change is ram (say you are troubleshooting a problem) and you
keep changing it back and forth, you will not trigger reactivation. You can
add and remove hard drives willy nilly, but only if you replace the system
drive does it matter at all.
And so on.
The Activation software does not have a field for the mobo. But at least
half the hardware characteristics tracked are usually built into the mobo.
The reference to the mobo defining a new computer would have to do with
definitions for determining valid licensing, not for activation.
Activation enables MS to track the fact that a copy of Windows is installed
and something about the hardware characteristics of the machine. Windows
Genuine Advantage enables MS to identify licensing issues with that
installation. It seems that there has been considerable abuse of volume
licensing.
C
CH
No disrespect meant.
Sounds good. If only this played out in reality. During the last 5-6 years
I can't tell you how many no boots I've worked with (enough to make
directions for repairing XP on a blog) and so many excellent Vista sites are
cropping up, I'm going to wait awhile to see if I can fill any niches with
Vista--since so many bright peopleare doing such a good job) but..
1) I talked to someone senior at Dell in Austin (it's not easy to talk to
Dell non India unless you are either buying a PC or have some very unlisted
numbers) and he told me something quite different.
I have not seen Dell offering a $7 OS the same as the Windows Retail CDs. If
they are why not just MSFT and OEMS send the Windows Retail CD. I have seen
people for years getting Recovery Discs. I have rarely seen an OEM ship an
OEM equivalant with all the code to Windows XP.
I insist this is darn rare and I don't think Dell is doing this now--with
either a $7 full blown OS or a 21 day window to call and get thme to send
it to you free. I will try Dell Sales this week and see what they say.
That doesn't change my experience of about 1000 people during the current
term of XP notbeing able to do a repair install because they lacked an XP
CD. How do you explain all these people that I encountered at random on
chats and newsgroups/forums?
That image you can burn one time--I don't know where you are getting that!
HP is famous for its "so-called" "non-destructive recovery discs" that
don't do jack and its partitions that don't recover. I used to regularly
help on a chat very early in the morning with a very Senior HP Tech
supervisor from India who was extremely good, and we both were critical of
what HP offers.
Of course your statement about responsibility to back up is absolutely
right. Everyone who helps out here or any of the XP groups or anywhere else
on the MSFT groups has had backup engraved in their PC DNA for a long time.
In addition to the ports for a USB flash, convenience of writers included,
and now portatble hard drives that hold 100GB and up like the little cuties
trat are cropping up that fit in your pocket, Windows One Care and Vista
have very convenient backup utilties built in. Vista's Backup is more
robust and backs up more type files, pics, ect. than One Care's but they are
both very good ideas.
You wrote:
"They way it is now, you cannot use a recovery set (which completely
restores
Again respectfully, from what I've seen you cannot get any of those
recovery sets to do what you said. I have a lot of respect for Toshiba's
research capacity, their innovations in storage, their retailers in my city,
and the machines they make and their other products.
What I was saying I'll make plain to you. You wrote "I can't quite decipher
all of what you are saying"
OEMs do not provide uniformly media that will do what a Windows retail CD in
XP and DVD in Vista will do. This cuts off the end user who invests hard
earned money from doing a very reliable Repair Install in XP and accessing
Win RE in Vista. I have tried Win RE experimentally and often, and when it
works it's fast but it does not work with near the consistency that an XP
Repair Install does for XP.
I might have included figures form last quarter financially for MSFT that
saw a 20% increas in OEM sales and 20% rounded off decrease in retail
licenses.
You wrote:
Any responsible corporation must support their end users, even if they don't
Well let's take a look at a little tiny one called MSFT headquatered in
Redmond. It employs pushing67000 people world wide. It's PSS sub
enterprise consists of Convergys of Ohio and they are horrendously
incompetent and their English is horrible in India. Not all Indians--but
the Convergys employees who are minimum waged butts in seats. It's about the
money as Cuba Gooding said. MSFT can't get enough of it.
Responsible--hardly.
You wrote:
"I'd also like to know, where on record, An HP VP states he does not give a
I didn't say that. I said in my opinion that OEM VP at Microsoft, Scott di
Valerio doesn't give a rat's ass about the 500 million OEM preinstalled
boxes getting fixed when XP needs to be repair installed or the projected
(in 24 months according to a slide I was given from MSFT) 425 million OEM
preinstalled Vista boxes getting fixed. I don't write about a subject as
serious as recovery for an OS in need of CPR and "make things up." I lived
through 1000 attempts to fix XP no boots and I understand how to do that
efficiently. I had great success with people coaching them via chat when
they had retail media or a genuine (very very rare) OEM OS. Of course OEM
enbossed equivalang Windows OS's are around. We have local computer shows
where they are always sold inexpensively for Windows and Office back a few
versionos up through the latest.
As to media that will work Scott di Valerio the account who is the MSFT
Financial VP and wears the double hat according to their Financial
Conference and Press Pass Exec Bios as OEM VP in charge of the OEM 300 named
partners and the little guys who work their tail off sees to it that people
don't get retail media.
He's an acocuntant not an engineer. I know accountants who care about
people. Mr. Di Valiero isn't responsible to the huge market of OEM users of
Windows preinstalled. The little guys who are OEM are required to provide
genuine retail media.
When pressed by System Builders at a MSFT meeting a few weeks ago the MSFT
rep nastilly announced "When you Guys start selling 50,000 boxes or more you
can do whatever you want to customers too."
I hope I was clear with my English. If I wasn't let me know and I'll polish
what I've said and rework it.
MSFT is going to offer upgrade coupons for Vista to help out the OEMs and as
I linked in a post to Colin Barnhorst in a thread, they are going to try to
modify their licenses to accomodate the Vista delay to RTM and what I hope
will be a few more months delay to make a half way decent operating system
instead of what Vista Inside Out author Ed Bott calls ranging in a spectrum
from "horrendous to very disappointing" if they don't delay it a few months
more.
Sincerely,
CH
Sounds good. If only this played out in reality. During the last 5-6 years
I can't tell you how many no boots I've worked with (enough to make
directions for repairing XP on a blog) and so many excellent Vista sites are
cropping up, I'm going to wait awhile to see if I can fill any niches with
Vista--since so many bright peopleare doing such a good job) but..
1) I talked to someone senior at Dell in Austin (it's not easy to talk to
Dell non India unless you are either buying a PC or have some very unlisted
numbers) and he told me something quite different.
I have not seen Dell offering a $7 OS the same as the Windows Retail CDs. If
they are why not just MSFT and OEMS send the Windows Retail CD. I have seen
people for years getting Recovery Discs. I have rarely seen an OEM ship an
OEM equivalant with all the code to Windows XP.
I insist this is darn rare and I don't think Dell is doing this now--with
either a $7 full blown OS or a 21 day window to call and get thme to send
it to you free. I will try Dell Sales this week and see what they say.
That doesn't change my experience of about 1000 people during the current
term of XP notbeing able to do a repair install because they lacked an XP
CD. How do you explain all these people that I encountered at random on
chats and newsgroups/forums?
That image you can burn one time--I don't know where you are getting that!
HP is famous for its "so-called" "non-destructive recovery discs" that
don't do jack and its partitions that don't recover. I used to regularly
help on a chat very early in the morning with a very Senior HP Tech
supervisor from India who was extremely good, and we both were critical of
what HP offers.
Of course your statement about responsibility to back up is absolutely
right. Everyone who helps out here or any of the XP groups or anywhere else
on the MSFT groups has had backup engraved in their PC DNA for a long time.
In addition to the ports for a USB flash, convenience of writers included,
and now portatble hard drives that hold 100GB and up like the little cuties
trat are cropping up that fit in your pocket, Windows One Care and Vista
have very convenient backup utilties built in. Vista's Backup is more
robust and backs up more type files, pics, ect. than One Care's but they are
both very good ideas.
You wrote:
"They way it is now, you cannot use a recovery set (which completely
restores
Again respectfully, from what I've seen you cannot get any of those
recovery sets to do what you said. I have a lot of respect for Toshiba's
research capacity, their innovations in storage, their retailers in my city,
and the machines they make and their other products.
What I was saying I'll make plain to you. You wrote "I can't quite decipher
all of what you are saying"
OEMs do not provide uniformly media that will do what a Windows retail CD in
XP and DVD in Vista will do. This cuts off the end user who invests hard
earned money from doing a very reliable Repair Install in XP and accessing
Win RE in Vista. I have tried Win RE experimentally and often, and when it
works it's fast but it does not work with near the consistency that an XP
Repair Install does for XP.
I might have included figures form last quarter financially for MSFT that
saw a 20% increas in OEM sales and 20% rounded off decrease in retail
licenses.
You wrote:
Any responsible corporation must support their end users, even if they don't
Well let's take a look at a little tiny one called MSFT headquatered in
Redmond. It employs pushing67000 people world wide. It's PSS sub
enterprise consists of Convergys of Ohio and they are horrendously
incompetent and their English is horrible in India. Not all Indians--but
the Convergys employees who are minimum waged butts in seats. It's about the
money as Cuba Gooding said. MSFT can't get enough of it.
Responsible--hardly.
You wrote:
"I'd also like to know, where on record, An HP VP states he does not give a
I didn't say that. I said in my opinion that OEM VP at Microsoft, Scott di
Valerio doesn't give a rat's ass about the 500 million OEM preinstalled
boxes getting fixed when XP needs to be repair installed or the projected
(in 24 months according to a slide I was given from MSFT) 425 million OEM
preinstalled Vista boxes getting fixed. I don't write about a subject as
serious as recovery for an OS in need of CPR and "make things up." I lived
through 1000 attempts to fix XP no boots and I understand how to do that
efficiently. I had great success with people coaching them via chat when
they had retail media or a genuine (very very rare) OEM OS. Of course OEM
enbossed equivalang Windows OS's are around. We have local computer shows
where they are always sold inexpensively for Windows and Office back a few
versionos up through the latest.
As to media that will work Scott di Valerio the account who is the MSFT
Financial VP and wears the double hat according to their Financial
Conference and Press Pass Exec Bios as OEM VP in charge of the OEM 300 named
partners and the little guys who work their tail off sees to it that people
don't get retail media.
He's an acocuntant not an engineer. I know accountants who care about
people. Mr. Di Valiero isn't responsible to the huge market of OEM users of
Windows preinstalled. The little guys who are OEM are required to provide
genuine retail media.
When pressed by System Builders at a MSFT meeting a few weeks ago the MSFT
rep nastilly announced "When you Guys start selling 50,000 boxes or more you
can do whatever you want to customers too."
I hope I was clear with my English. If I wasn't let me know and I'll polish
what I've said and rework it.
MSFT is going to offer upgrade coupons for Vista to help out the OEMs and as
I linked in a post to Colin Barnhorst in a thread, they are going to try to
modify their licenses to accomodate the Vista delay to RTM and what I hope
will be a few more months delay to make a half way decent operating system
instead of what Vista Inside Out author Ed Bott calls ranging in a spectrum
from "horrendous to very disappointing" if they don't delay it a few months
more.
Sincerely,
CH
J
John Jay Smith
one of the ten fields in the hardware hash hashes to a new value, then a
changes after a period of 4 months.
Anyway... I have a question for you...since you are an MVP in virtual
machines...
Can you load an existing partition for example windows or linux that is
nomally
a dual boot from within a virtual machine while another os is loaded?
This would allow the same partition to be used as a normal dual boot,
AND a virtual machine... is this possible... and if not, what do we have to
do
to make it possible?
thanks in advance
But as someone else here confirmed, the activation "forgets" all prior
changes after a period of 4 months.
Anyway... I have a question for you...since you are an MVP in virtual
machines...
Can you load an existing partition for example windows or linux that is
nomally
a dual boot from within a virtual machine while another os is loaded?
This would allow the same partition to be used as a normal dual boot,
AND a virtual machine... is this possible... and if not, what do we have to
do
to make it possible?
thanks in advance
C
Colin Barnhorst
No. You can use volume as a linked disk (a virtual hard drive type) that is
not a system disk, but that is only for data. I suggest that you download
and install VPC on an XP machine and read the docs and the help entries on
"managing virtual disks." In particular, read about "linked disks."
not a system disk, but that is only for data. I suggest that you download
and install VPC on an XP machine and read the docs and the help entries on
"managing virtual disks." In particular, read about "linked disks."
J
John Jay Smith
can you think of a way this can be done?
if not with windows, with linux?
if not with windows, with linux?
C
Colin Barnhorst
No. No operating system will allow you to access the system volume (of the
running computer) from two different machines (itself and a vm) at the same
time.
If you access a non-system volume from two different computers only one of
them will have access at a time. That you can do by using a data volume as
a linked disk. As I said, read up on it. Even so, a linked disk is really
for setting up a vm but not for regular use.
running computer) from two different machines (itself and a vm) at the same
time.
If you access a non-system volume from two different computers only one of
them will have access at a time. That you can do by using a data volume as
a linked disk. As I said, read up on it. Even so, a linked disk is really
for setting up a vm but not for regular use.