What now?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ed Cregger
  • Start date Start date
E

Ed Cregger

I bought a refurbed Gateway 5014 from Tiger Direct a couple
of months ago, or slightly longer.

The computer worked perfectly for the first couple of weeks,
then it began rebooting spontaneously. There did not seem to
be any link with the duration of operation and when the
machine would reboot. I have kind of ruled out heat as being
a problem since it will reboot within a couple of minutes
when started up after a 24 hour off period.

I called Gateway. They sent me a power supply. Installed it.
No change. They then sent me a hard drive. Installed it, but
no change. Before all of this I reinstalled the operating
system several times too (XP SP2, both Gateway's version and
a new version - both were equipped with Media Center). No
change.

I sent the computer back to Gateway. Got it back. No change.
I wrote them an email afterwards, pleading for help after
explaining the problem. No response.

I now have a $500 P.O.S. computer that cannot be fixed by a
normal user. It is useless as it is.

I have tried various virus and malevolent software removal
tools. No change.

I'm down to the CPU and the motherboard. Oh, I did replace
the original 1 GB of RAM with 2 GB of RAM. No change, but
the computer runs a bit better otherwise.

What's next? I can't afford to eat this computer. Neither
Gateway, nor Tiger Direct have offered to help me any
further. The computer is now out of warranty.

Any thoughts? TIA


Ed Cregger
 
Ed said:
I bought a refurbed Gateway 5014 from Tiger Direct a couple
of months ago, or slightly longer.

The computer worked perfectly for the first couple of weeks,
then it began rebooting spontaneously. There did not seem to
be any link with the duration of operation and when the
machine would reboot. I have kind of ruled out heat as being
a problem since it will reboot within a couple of minutes
when started up after a 24 hour off period.

I called Gateway. They sent me a power supply. Installed it.
No change. They then sent me a hard drive. Installed it, but
no change. Before all of this I reinstalled the operating
system several times too (XP SP2, both Gateway's version and
a new version - both were equipped with Media Center). No
change.

I sent the computer back to Gateway. Got it back. No change.
I wrote them an email afterwards, pleading for help after
explaining the problem. No response.

I now have a $500 P.O.S. computer that cannot be fixed by a
normal user. It is useless as it is.

I have tried various virus and malevolent software removal
tools. No change.

I'm down to the CPU and the motherboard. Oh, I did replace
the original 1 GB of RAM with 2 GB of RAM. No change, but
the computer runs a bit better otherwise.

What's next? I can't afford to eat this computer. Neither
Gateway, nor Tiger Direct have offered to help me any
further. The computer is now out of warranty.

Any thoughts? TIA


Ed Cregger
Click to expand...

Do you get any protection from your credit card company? If so give them
a ring and explain the situation. Maybe they can help you.
 
1. confirm that the PSU is indeed good.

2. check that the CPU is getting adequate cooling. Sometimes the heat
sink can become dislodged a bit during transport and mess up the thermal
interface material.

3. check the motherboard for bulging or leaking capacitors. They might
be bulging.leaking from the bottom, so look carefully.

4. Does it have onboard video? If not, make sure the GPU is being
adequately cooled.

5. Are you using the latest drivers for your motherboard's chipset and
your video card (if any)?

Ed said:
I bought a refurbed Gateway 5014 from Tiger Direct a couple
of months ago, or slightly longer.

The computer worked perfectly for the first couple of weeks,
then it began rebooting spontaneously. There did not seem to
be any link with the duration of operation and when the
machine would reboot. I have kind of ruled out heat as being
a problem since it will reboot within a couple of minutes
when started up after a 24 hour off period.

I called Gateway. They sent me a power supply. Installed it.
No change. They then sent me a hard drive. Installed it, but
no change. Before all of this I reinstalled the operating
system several times too (XP SP2, both Gateway's version and
a new version - both were equipped with Media Center). No
change.

I sent the computer back to Gateway. Got it back. No change.
I wrote them an email afterwards, pleading for help after
explaining the problem. No response.

I now have a $500 P.O.S. computer that cannot be fixed by a
normal user. It is useless as it is.

I have tried various virus and malevolent software removal
tools. No change.

I'm down to the CPU and the motherboard. Oh, I did replace
the original 1 GB of RAM with 2 GB of RAM. No change, but
the computer runs a bit better otherwise.

What's next? I can't afford to eat this computer. Neither
Gateway, nor Tiger Direct have offered to help me any
further. The computer is now out of warranty.

Any thoughts? TIA


Ed Cregger
Click to expand...


--
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Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
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http://www.marrow.org/
 
Ed said:
I bought a refurbed Gateway 5014 from Tiger Direct a couple
of months ago, or slightly longer.

The computer worked perfectly for the first couple of weeks,
then it began rebooting spontaneously. There did not seem to
be any link with the duration of operation and when the
machine would reboot. I have kind of ruled out heat as being
a problem since it will reboot within a couple of minutes
when started up after a 24 hour off period.

I called Gateway. They sent me a power supply. Installed it.
No change. They then sent me a hard drive. Installed it, but
no change. Before all of this I reinstalled the operating
system several times too (XP SP2, both Gateway's version and
a new version - both were equipped with Media Center). No
change.

I sent the computer back to Gateway. Got it back. No change.
I wrote them an email afterwards, pleading for help after
explaining the problem. No response.

I now have a $500 P.O.S. computer that cannot be fixed by a
normal user. It is useless as it is.

I have tried various virus and malevolent software removal
tools. No change.

I'm down to the CPU and the motherboard. Oh, I did replace
the original 1 GB of RAM with 2 GB of RAM. No change, but
the computer runs a bit better otherwise.

What's next? I can't afford to eat this computer. Neither
Gateway, nor Tiger Direct have offered to help me any
further. The computer is now out of warranty.

Any thoughts? TIA


Ed Cregger
Click to expand...

According to the Tigerdirect page, it's a $650 POS :-)

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=1697010&sku=G153-GT5014

The motherboard appears to be a microBTX, with cooling duct over
the processor (and perhaps the Northbridge as well ?). The board
doesn't look that bad. It is based on a 945 chipset. Uses DDR2
memory. Probably isn't too old (which is why you'd hope there
wouldn't be a "bad caps" problem).

http://support.gateway.com/s/MOTHERBD/Intel2/106007/106007nv.shtml

The first thing I'd do, is disable "Automatic restart" in Windows,
so if there is a BSOD, the BSOD stays on the screen instead of rebooting.
If the machine won't stop with Automatic Restart disabled, then
you'd know it was a more "hardware" related problem, rather than a
bad driver or perhaps a memory error.

Another test case, would be whether or not it will restart while just
sitting in the BIOS (having not had a chance to boot - press whatever
key is needed to enter the BIOS, then wait and see what happens). Again,
this is intended to see if the problem exhibits itself while the
machine hasn't had Windows loaded.

The machine uses a Pentium D 2.8GHz. Draws about 95W TDP.

http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL8CP

Another test I might try, is power down, unplug the computer,
remove all the RAM. Power up. The BIOS should beep the "missing
RAM" code. Now, let it sit. Does it restart all by itself, when
sitting in that condition ?

Is the machine currently using a PCI Express x16 video card, or
just the built-in graphics ? With the machine running, do the fans
seem to be working ? What about the Northbridge heatsink temp ?
Does it seem reasonable, or do you burn yourself if touching it.

Does the BIOS have a hardware monitor page ? If so, what do the
listed voltages look like ? The expected values should be
within +/-5% of nominal values.

Paul
 
Ed Cregger said:
I bought a refurbed Gateway 5014 from Tiger Direct a couple
of months ago, or slightly longer.

The computer worked perfectly for the first couple of weeks,
then it began rebooting spontaneously. There did not seem to
be any link with the duration of operation and when the
machine would reboot. I have kind of ruled out heat as being
a problem since it will reboot within a couple of minutes
when started up after a 24 hour off period.

I called Gateway. They sent me a power supply. Installed it.
No change. They then sent me a hard drive. Installed it, but
no change. Before all of this I reinstalled the operating
system several times too (XP SP2, both Gateway's version and
a new version - both were equipped with Media Center). No
change.

I sent the computer back to Gateway. Got it back. No change.
I wrote them an email afterwards, pleading for help after
explaining the problem. No response.

I now have a $500 P.O.S. computer that cannot be fixed by a
normal user. It is useless as it is.

I have tried various virus and malevolent software removal
tools. No change.

I'm down to the CPU and the motherboard. Oh, I did replace
the original 1 GB of RAM with 2 GB of RAM. No change, but
the computer runs a bit better otherwise.

What's next? I can't afford to eat this computer. Neither
Gateway, nor Tiger Direct have offered to help me any
further. The computer is now out of warranty.
Click to expand...


I've always been skeptical about the word "refurb".
Since you have replaced virtually everything on the machine but the mobo and
the cpu...
I'm sure the problem is the mobo. It's very possible for a mobo to have
intermittent problems...but with the CPU itself...
they are either good or bad.

I'd contact Gateway and/or Tiger and explain that the machine has *NEVER*
worked correctly and try to get the entire machine replaced...or if not...
at least get a new mobo.


The only solution I've ever gotten to work for so called "flakey"
motherboards was to simply undeclock them.
Sometimes that will get the machine running stably ...but that's not a
terribly great solution
 
I called Gateway. They sent me apower supply. Installed it.
No change. They then sent me a hard drive. Installed it, but
no change. Before all of this I reinstalled the operating
system several times too (XP SP2, both Gateway's version and
a new version - both were equipped with Media Center). No
change.
Click to expand...

A power supply replacement does not address the entire power supply
system including the 'system' part that turns off a computer. The
disk drive would not cause your problems - an indication of technical
knowledge in tech support.

Responsible computer manufacturers provide comprehensive hardware
diagnostics just for problems such as yours. Also available (and
maybe destroyed because you reloaded Windows) are historical facts in
the system (event) log. Causing system to create a BSOD solves little
since that information would also be in system logs.

If your manufacturer was responsible, then those diagnostics,
executed when computer is inside a 100 degree room or when parts are
heated by a hairdryer on highest settings, might have identified a
hardware defect. To do same, you must download and execute (during
elevated temperatures) diagnostics from individual component
manufacturers or third parties (ie Memtst86).

I have never obtained useful assistance from Gateway tech support.
At least one even lied to me about what memory could be used in their
machine (Crucial provided the truth). You have few options because
that company offers no comprehensive hardware diagnostics and has
inferior tech support. They even sent a new disk drive when drive
could not create your symptoms. They may have now marked trouble
reports blaming you being the problem - so that little useful tech
support will be obtained. Maybe or maybe not.

Provided are examples of how to find before fixing the defect.
 
A power supply replacement does not address the entire
power supply
system including the 'system' part that turns off a
computer.

*Please elaborate on this statement, Tom. TIA

Ed Cregger
 
*Please elaborate on this statement, Tom. TIA
Click to expand...

Power supply controller tells power supply when to power on,
monitors other peripherals and switches to determine when to power on,
reads a signal from power supply when power is OK, and even tells CPU
when it can operate. A less than two minute procedure (because is
provides numbers) can determine the integrity of the entire power
supply 'system', and provides numbers so that others with better
knowledge can provide further useful information. That procedure,
while never disconnecting, removing, or swapping anything, is "When
your computer dies without warning....." starting 6 Feb 2007 in the
newsgroup alt.windows-xp at:
http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh
Connector chart for where each color wire should be located:
http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/power/atxpower.html

Even with a new supply, that 'system' is still unknown. The only
useful labor determines what is 'definitively good' or 'definitively
bad'. Once we have a definitive answer, then we move on to other
suspects and never look back. No reasons to look back when the answer
is definitive. Currently that power 'system' is still unknown.

Only after the power 'system' is 'definitively good' can we move on
to other suspects. In your case, hardware diagnostics must come from
third parties, as others have recommended. For example Memtst86 can
be executed. However intermittent (meaning defective) memory can
still pass diagnostics. So we heat that computer in a 100 degree F
room or selectively heat memory (and related ICs) with a hair dryer on
highest heat setting - and execute Memtst86 again. High heat (that
does not leave skin when touched) is a perfectly ideal temperature for
good semiconductors AND can quickly find a slowly failing and getting
worse semiconductor.

But diagnostics cannot be informative until that power supply
'system' is known good.

In your case, the most important part of that two minute test is
when everything is executing (multitasking) simultaneously. That
means complex video graphics, while sound from sound card, while
downloading from internet, while playing a CD-Rom, while executing a
disk drive search, while .... only then is the power supply 'system'
ready to report voltages on any one orange, red, yellow, and purple
wire.

Final point. Heat is a diagnostic tool; not something to be cured.
Your computer must be perfectly happy - never crash - even in a 100
degree F room. If the computer is failing at 70 degrees, then heat is
how to make the defect easier to locate.
 
w_tom said:
Power supply controller tells power supply when to power
on,
monitors other peripherals and switches to determine when
to power on,
reads a signal from power supply when power is OK, and
even tells CPU
when it can operate. A less than two minute procedure
(because is
provides numbers) can determine the integrity of the
entire power
supply 'system', and provides numbers so that others with
better
knowledge can provide further useful information. That
procedure,
while never disconnecting, removing, or swapping anything,
is "When
your computer dies without warning....." starting 6 Feb
2007 in the
newsgroup alt.windows-xp at:
http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh
Connector chart for where each color wire should be
located:
http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/power/atxpower.html

Even with a new supply, that 'system' is still unknown.
The only
useful labor determines what is 'definitively good' or
'definitively
bad'. Once we have a definitive answer, then we move on
to other
suspects and never look back. No reasons to look back
when the answer
is definitive. Currently that power 'system' is still
unknown.

Only after the power 'system' is 'definitively good' can
we move on
to other suspects. In your case, hardware diagnostics
must come from
third parties, as others have recommended. For example
Memtst86 can
be executed. However intermittent (meaning defective)
memory can
still pass diagnostics. So we heat that computer in a 100
degree F
room or selectively heat memory (and related ICs) with a
hair dryer on
highest heat setting - and execute Memtst86 again. High
heat (that
does not leave skin when touched) is a perfectly ideal
temperature for
good semiconductors AND can quickly find a slowly failing
and getting
worse semiconductor.

But diagnostics cannot be informative until that power
supply
'system' is known good.

In your case, the most important part of that two minute
test is
when everything is executing (multitasking)
simultaneously. That
means complex video graphics, while sound from sound card,
while
downloading from internet, while playing a CD-Rom, while
executing a
disk drive search, while .... only then is the power
supply 'system'
ready to report voltages on any one orange, red, yellow,
and purple
wire.

Final point. Heat is a diagnostic tool; not something to
be cured.
Your computer must be perfectly happy - never crash - even
in a 100
degree F room. If the computer is failing at 70 degrees,
then heat is
how to make the defect easier to locate.
Click to expand...


-------------


Thanks for the explanation.

I truly appreciate the help from you and all others on this
topic.


Ed Cregger
 
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