What kind of RAM do i need?

[Dr Richard Cranium]

sounds like you should visit / email Mike at Pretested Cpu's. Ask him these questions.


mailto:[email protected]

http://www.pretestedcpus.com/

http://www.smokeypoint.com/My_PC.htm
===============================
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: I just ordered an Abit NF7-S mobo, 2500+ Barton, and will be putting a 9700
: Pro in it. I want to order a gig of RAM. I assume this mobo is dual channel,
: so two sticks of 512. My question is, considering i'm going to overclock my
: 2500 to 3200, what kind of RAM do i need? I mean, i'm not familiar with what
: i might need to look for as far as RAM goes. All i know is i probably need
: atleast PC3200 right? I need to make sure it is good, fast RAM so it can
: handle the overclocking sufficiently. I need to try and stay under 100
: dollars for each stick, but don't want to sacrifice getting something fast
: and stable.
:
: By the way, i have never overclocked before, but i heard this mobo is good
: for it, and the 2500 Barton is ideal. If you have any tips for me i would
: appreciate, as i am not really familiar yet with when i hear you guy talking
: about 11x this and 12x that. I want my first overclocking experience to be a
: good, safe one. Thanks for any advice on that, and the RAM.
:
:




.................................................................
Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access-=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

 

[Mike B]

I just ordered an Abit NF7-S mobo, 2500+ Barton, and will be putting a 9700
Pro in it. I want to order a gig of RAM. I assume this mobo is dual channel,
so two sticks of 512. My question is, considering i'm going to overclock my
2500 to 3200, what kind of RAM do i need? I mean, i'm not familiar with what
i might need to look for as far as RAM goes. All i know is i probably need
atleast PC3200 right? I need to make sure it is good, fast RAM so it can
handle the overclocking sufficiently. I need to try and stay under 100
dollars for each stick, but don't want to sacrifice getting something fast
and stable.

By the way, i have never overclocked before, but i heard this mobo is good
for it, and the 2500 Barton is ideal. If you have any tips for me i would
appreciate, as i am not really familiar yet with when i hear you guy talking
about 11x this and 12x that. I want my first overclocking experience to be a
good, safe one. Thanks for any advice on that, and the RAM.

 

[Strontium]

If you haven't, already, try asking in alt.comp.hardware.overclocking

Lots of knowledgable people there. Especially with that mobo and cpu combo.

good luck


-
Mike B stood up at show-n-tell, in PN3dc.218508$po.1097952@attbi_s52, and
said:

 

[GTX_SlotCar]

I think memory prices are going back up to "normal". The low prices of a
month ago are disappearing.
You'll want to get double sided memory to take full advantage of your dual
channel setup. If you can't afford 1 Gig now, try 512 MB instead. I haven't
noticed any difference in frame rates between 512 and 1 Gig. You can always
add more memory later
I'd recommend a couple sticks of Geil Ultra Platinum PC3500.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-144-405&depa=0
Mine runs at 2-6-2-2 up to about 183 mHz and 2-6-3-3 up to 220 mHz. After
that I have to go to the SPD of 2.5-6-3-3.
Check the reviews on the link. Maybe they can give you more insight for your
motherboard.

Gary

 

[h2so4]

You'll want to get double sided memory to take full advantage of your dual

channel setup.

Nonsense! In order to take advantage of dual channel you'll need two matched
or similar DIMM modules.

With reference to your proposed motherboard, I suggest you browse the Abit
forum, where amongst the juvenalia, you'll probably find loads of posts
recommending RAM for your board and squeals of outrage from those having
problems.

 

[Filip]

I have the same board, but with an Athlon XP 2100+ OCED to about the
equivalent of a 3200+...I use GEIL PC3200 Ultra Golden Dragon Series RAM. I
have 2x512's of this RAM and have not had any problems OCin. Since you will
mainly just have to OC the FSB to 200MHz/DDR400, then this RAM will work
fine for you. However, most people on the other board will suggest Corsair
XMS or Kingston HyperX memory. Too much money for something that is of
lower quality compared to GEIL's. I purchase 2 seperate 512's of GEIL RAM
and have no problems OCin nor running Dual Channel. I suggest going to
www.newegg.com and purchasing 2 sticks of the 512 GEIL Golden Dragon
NON-VALUE SERIES RAM. Good stuff....and good luck with the OC, I plan on
upgraded my CPU to the Barton 2500+ and OCING it pretty far....from what
I've heard, they can OC with the best of them, heh...good luck, ttyl

 

[Inglo]

I just ordered an Abit NF7-S mobo, 2500+ Barton, and will be putting a 9700
Pro in it. I want to order a gig of RAM. I assume this mobo is dual channel,
so two sticks of 512. My question is, considering i'm going to overclock my
2500 to 3200, what kind of RAM do i need? I mean, i'm not familiar with what
i might need to look for as far as RAM goes. All i know is i probably need
atleast PC3200 right? I need to make sure it is good, fast RAM so it can
handle the overclocking sufficiently. I need to try and stay under 100
dollars for each stick, but don't want to sacrifice getting something fast
and stable.

By the way, i have never overclocked before, but i heard this mobo is good
for it, and the 2500 Barton is ideal. If you have any tips for me i would
appreciate, as i am not really familiar yet with when i hear you guy talking
about 11x this and 12x that. I want my first overclocking experience to be a
good, safe one. Thanks for any advice on that, and the RAM.

Make sure you get some RAM with blinking lights. It's absolutely
necessary these days.
http://www.corsairmicro.com/corsair/xms_proseries.html

 

[Airman PD]

Make sure you get some RAM with blinking lights. It's absolutely
necessary these days.
http://www.corsairmicro.com/corsair/xms_proseries.html

And don't forget to print the following and mount it next to your computer:

"Das Machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy
schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitzensparken.
Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren
musten keepen das cotten-pickenen hands in das pockets - relaxen und watchen
das blinkenlights."

 

[GTX_SlotCar]

Don't you just hate it when someone says something emphatic like "Nonsense!"
when they don't know what they're talking about?
To take FULL advantage of dual channel, 2 sticks of double sided memory will
give better performance than 2 sticks of single sided memory. 4 sticks of
single sided memory will give the same performance as 2 sticks of DS memory.
At high memory speeds (DDR400 or more), 4 DS sticks will give the fastest
performance. You might want to consider 4 sticks of 256MB memory.
I know the Intel White Papers indicate this. A Google search may turn up
similar papers for other chipsets. There is also an article about this on
AnandTech.
I'm not saying SS memory sticks won't work in a dual channel configuration.
The speed advantage of DS memory is relatively small, but so is squeezing
out that extra bit of tight timing or that extra couple mHz. Hey, if it
doesn't cost more, you may as well take it.
Mike, you might also want to check out the memory forum on ocforums.com.
There will be a few guys like h2so4 on there, but overall it's a good place
for honest info.

Gary

--

Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com

 

[t thome]

And don't forget to print the following and mount it next to your computer:

"Das Machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy
schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitzensparken.
Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren
musten keepen das cotten-pickenen hands in das pockets - relaxen und watchen
das blinkenlights."

A better translation would be...

Diese Maschine ist nicht für das Stoßen der inneren Finger oder das
Ergreifen mit Handschuhen. Sie reißt leicht die Frühlinge, fixiert Schläge
und spuckt aus Funken. Sie ist nicht für das Arbeiten durch dumme Leute.
Wenn Sie nach innen schauen müssen, halten Sie Ihre Hände in Ihren Taschen,
entspannen Sie sich und passen Sie die Blinkenlichter auf...

Tim

 

[t thome]

Nonsense! In order to take advantage of dual channel you'll need two matched
or similar DIMM modules.

With reference to your proposed motherboard, I suggest you browse the Abit
forum, where amongst the juvenalia, you'll probably find loads of posts
recommending RAM for your board and squeals of outrage from those having
problems.

They just need to be similar... when I built my NF7-S v2.0, I had a couple
of sticks kicking around, a Corsair XMS3000 and a Kingston HyperX PC3000.
I'm running the bus sync with FSB, which means the memory is running at
PC2700 speeds, 2-2-2-8, and dual channel runs fine on the board (the CPU is
a 166MHz FSB Barton, hence stock FSB, sync mem bus).

The DIMM's don't have to be "matched", but should be paired up if you are
already in the market for RAM.

Tim

 

[t thome]

Don't you just hate it when someone says something emphatic like "Nonsense!"
when they don't know what they're talking about?
To take FULL advantage of dual channel, 2 sticks of double sided memory will
give better performance than 2 sticks of single sided memory. 4 sticks of
single sided memory will give the same performance as 2 sticks of DS memory.
At high memory speeds (DDR400 or more), 4 DS sticks will give the fastest
performance. You might want to consider 4 sticks of 256MB memory.
I know the Intel White Papers indicate this.

The Intel 865 and 875 chipsets will prefer DIMM's that are of the same
configuration, and installed symetrically, i.e. if you have a 32M*8 DIMM in
Channel A DIMM 0, then for best performance, you need to match it with a
32M*8 in Channel B of DIMM 0. In this config you get Dynamic Dual Channel.

Double-sided, single-sided, that doesn't matter, what does matter with Intel
chipsets, is that the logical configuration of the DIMM's do match within a
channel and location...

Intel's D875PBZ Technical Specification has a very clear outline of how to
config memory sticks and locations for best performance, see section 1.6
(System Memory), Pages 21-27, for details. It includes suggested
configurations for DIMM mis-matches in the event that you have a couple of
256MB DIMM's and a single 512MB for example...

Linky below for an online PDF copy, this is better than any "White Paper" -
White Paper is much more useful when dispensed in rolls with perforations
for easy utilization..

ftp://download.intel.com/design/motherbd/bz/C3176501.pdf

Intel is not quite as flexible as nVidia with DC, but when configured
correctly, the 875 and 865 will have amazing bandwidth.

Tim

 

[GTX_SlotCar]

Double-sided, single-sided, that doesn't matter, what does matter with
Intel

chipsets, is that the logical configuration of the DIMM's do match within a
channel and location...

OK. Here's one of the tests done at AnandTech:

Config Q3 fps Sandra Unbuffered
2 SS 392.30 INT 2918 FLT 2926
2 DS 400.10 INT 3282 FLT 3324

DS looks faster to me

2% in Q3 and about 13% in Sandra's memory bandwidth. Not a big difference,
I'll agree; but I've seen people tweaking FSB and timings to try to get this
much. Going with DS sticks requires no tweaking.

I was able to get almost identical results comparing my Komusa Hyperam
(Adata) which is SS and Geil Platinum Plus which is DS. It was also PC4200
vs PC3500, so the Hyperam had faster memory. Both were set at 3-8-4-4 so the
Geil wouldn't have a timing advantage.

BTW (for those interested in this stuff), at 270 fsb, the Hyperam at 1:1 and
3-8-4-4 was a bit slower in frame rates than the Geil at 5:4 (216 mHz) and
2-6-3-3. The Geil set at 3:2 (180 mHz) at 2-6-2-2 performed about the same
as it's 216 / 2-6-3-3 setting. Of course, the Hyperam would run 1:1, so it's
bandwidth was higher. Very good ram if you do a lot of graphics manipulation
with photo-shop or something. I just play games, so it was a waste of money.

One more thing, about matching memory, since I've gone this far. I got my
1st stick of Geil Platinum Plus about 1 1/2 years ago, I think. When I
upgraded to my new Abit, I wanted to take advantage of the dual channel
option and I needed more ram anyway. So I ordered another stick of the same
PC3500 a couple months ago. It worked good, but in dual channel mode I
couldn't run it at 2-5-2-2 like I could in single channel mode. I tried
every configuration possible. A couple weeks ago, I bought another stick of
it to use at work, but I'm using it in my kids' computer temporarily. Out of
curiosity, I played musical chairs with the 3 sticks in my computer. With
the newest stick paired with my 1 1/2 year old stick, I was able to run at
2-5-2-2 again. The point of all this is, it may make a small difference when
getting a "matched pair" if the vendor actually matches them. If getting the
matched pair is the same price or only 2 or 3 bucks more, it might be
something to consider.

Gary

 

[t thome]

within

OK. Here's one of the tests done at AnandTech:

Config Q3 fps Sandra Unbuffered
2 SS 392.30 INT 2918 FLT 2926
2 DS 400.10 INT 3282 FLT 3324

DS looks faster to me

In Anandtech's case it probably is... with his specific board, BIOS version,
DIMM's, and even the versions on the those DIMM's. Each board and memory
config is slightly different, and this is why I usually take those numbers
with a grain of salt... besides it is well known that Anandtech and other HW
sites usually do tweak the settings for optimal performance. Anand's site at
least does indicate the actual settings used for their tests.

BTW - tried to locate the reference you mentioned above, do you have a link
to those specific results?

2% in Q3 and about 13% in Sandra's memory bandwidth. Not a big difference,
I'll agree; but I've seen people tweaking FSB and timings to try to get this
much. Going with DS sticks requires no tweaking.

SS or DS sticks, both will respond to optimization of the BIOS settings.
Perhaps in your experience, the SPD settings are already optimal, but this
does not categorize all double-sided DIMM's

I was able to get almost identical results comparing my Komusa Hyperam
(Adata) which is SS and Geil Platinum Plus which is DS. It was also PC4200
vs PC3500, so the Hyperam had faster memory. Both were set at 3-8-4-4 so the
Geil wouldn't have a timing advantage.

Not wanting to ask you to invalidate your warranty on the DIMM's, but
different rated DIMM's will have different characteristics at both the
actual mem chips and the SPD settings.

BTW (for those interested in this stuff), at 270 fsb, the Hyperam at 1:1 and
3-8-4-4 was a bit slower in frame rates than the Geil at 5:4 (216 mHz) and
2-6-3-3. The Geil set at 3:2 (180 mHz) at 2-6-2-2 performed about the same
as it's 216 / 2-6-3-3 setting. Of course, the Hyperam would run 1:1, so it's
bandwidth was higher. Very good ram if you do a lot of graphics manipulation
with photo-shop or something. I just play games, so it was a waste of

money.

Good quality RAM is just that, whether you use it in a production
environment or as a hobbyist that may only play games and do regular
internet activities such as WWW, Email, and USENET.

Poor quality RAM on the other hand... doesn't matter much what you do...

I've had pretty good luck with Kingston, Corsair, and Crucial, in all
grades...

<snip, not trying to cut you short>

Each mainboard model is different. I've seen differences even between
revision levels within the same family of boards. What works well for your
ABIT, may not work for someone else.

It's good to hear though that you were able to find a fairly optimal config
with little fiddling about.

Tim

 

[GTX_SlotCar]

Here's one anandtech article:
http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=1839&p=4
and here's another:
http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=1849&p=5
You may want to look at pages before and after these links, too.

There's another from someone else that I found, but I can't find it again.
It's a site I've been stumbled on a few times while looking for reviews and
it's pretty good, but I can never remember the name of it. No, it's not
Tom's site, but it does favor AMD and nVidia the way Tom's does.
Anyway, I found these while looking for something to explain my results. I
used Call of Duty instead of Q3 and ran it with pretty aggressive graphics
settings (HQ filtering, 4xFSAA and 8xAF), but the net % results were the
same.
In the part of my post where I described my results for memory timings and
ratios, I wasn't comparing SS to DS memory. It just happens that the only
memory I have that will run at 540 is the Hyperam (PC4200). The point of
that comparison was to show that, in games, memory bandwidth (a 1:1 ratio,
for example), isn't always the most important thing for higher frame rates,
and that they could indeed be 2nd to tight memory timings in some cases.
Also, even though the PC4200 Hyperam (with Adata chips) may not be great for
me, it's still very good ram. A look at ocforums and you'll see that some
people are actually getting over 300 mHz FSB with a 1:1 ratio with this
ram. That's very impressive and I don't know of any other ram that can do
this. I still run the Hyperam in my computer. Every once in a while it's fun
to send my cpu 1.75v and push the FSB to 280 or a bit more and watch the
frame rates or Sandra's memory bandwidth soar.

Intel White Papers, Anand's articles, my tests, another I can't find again,
and some concern on newegg.com about the OCZ PC3700 being SS or DS (so you
need 4 sticks for best performance) all point to DS memory being faster in a
dual channel configuration. The Intel White papers were for the 875/865
chips, not motherboard specific. Anand used an Asus and I have an Abit AI7.
The other site was almost certainly using an AMD board, and I believe it was
Abit, as was the concern at newegg.
So, it may not be universally true that DS memory is faster than SS memory
in a dual channel configuration, but it seems to be, and at least includes
Asus, Abit and all 875 and 865 motherboards.

Gary

 

[t thome]

Gary,

Thanks for the links, I knew I had seen them earlier, but couldn't find them
later on when I needed to...

The key thing is the electrical configuration of the memory stick, whether
it is configured as a single bank or dual bank, as some folks equate bank
with side, but I've seen single sided DIMM's configured as dual bank. It can
be physically single sided, but electrically wired to be a dual banked
device, you have to reference the tech/config notes if available for the
memory type from the vendor.

In any event, when I review the WP noted for i875 and i865, the data is
consistent with Anandtech's results.

That being said, I did have some concerns with Anandtech's testing, in that
the SB and DB test DIMM's were a) not from the same vendor, and b) chip
level information on the DIMM's was not presented.

When you review the Intel documentation, it is essential that in order to
get the best performance, having a matched set of DIMM's (whether a pair or
a full set of four) is essential. Mixing types, even across the two
channels, is not recommended, at both the chipset level and the board level.

Interesting note, optimal configs are different at the chipset level between
i875 and i865...

for the i865 Dynamic Paging Mode (preferred)...

2 DS DIMM are best
4 DS/4 SS are second
2 SS are the last

For the i875, it's a bit different... perhaps it's PAT that comes into play
for Dynamic addressing, since PAT does affect chip select it makes sense...

4 DS DIMM's are best
2 DS/4 SS DIMM's are ranked second
2 SS are last...

All configs above are for DDR400. DDR333/266 are somewhat different, so
timing does coming into play, this would be mostly of interest for tweakers
and non-800FSB P4 users... What is singnificant is that to get Dynamic
Paging Mode, all DIMM's must be identical, not similar, but identical, the
chipset will check SPD info...

It's important to note the difference between 865 and 875, as it would
affect purchase of RAM for optimal performance, for example if you want 1
gig of RAM it would be best..

i875 - 4*256MB DS
i865 - 2*512MB DS

Interesting, eh?

Dynamic Paging Mode is the big boost, as it changes how the memory itself it
addressed and accessed on a DC Intel chipset. Mixed DIMM's will disable
Dynamic Paging Mode, however it is not entirely clear by Intel's documention
on what they mean by identical vs. mixed. I suspect that if SPD info is the
same, dynamic mode would be enabled vs. linear mode...

Now when I say 'matched' DIMM''s, I don't mean go out and buy the "DC kits",
all that is needed is some smart shopping and purchase the desired memory at
the same time. I will admit that the "kits" will ensure a matched set, but
buying the DIMM's individually has the same result, and you won't pay the
marketing premium...

The discussion that Gary and I is urbane to the Intel DC implementation
obviously, and more importantly, limited to the i865/i875 family of
chipsets, which have some unique features that are not implemented on other
DC configurations such as the i850/i850e, Via KT880, Via PT880,
nForce/nForce Ultra, SiS 655TX, etc... but that is another discussion...

My experience relates back to the D865PE as implemented in the d865perl
board, along with Abit's NF7-S which also support DC operations.

Thanks for the discussion, it was enlightening, as an engineer, I would
rather take the time to either concur or refute a conclusion, based on
investigation, rather than take another's conclusion at face value. This is
why I initially suspected Anandtech's conclusions, and I took issue with
your assertations.

Regards, and back to the discussion on ATi video cards, which is much more
relevant to this thread...

Tim