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What is more harmful? Did you know?
- Thread starter Quadophile
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I'm not surprised the Labour Party sacked him, he's talking cobblers.
Alcohol more harmful than heroin? Balderdash!
This is the criteria by which our learned friend judges how harmful a drug is:
Note those last words, particularly 'crime'.
What percentage of the UK population jacks up smack?
What percentage of the UK population likes to go out on the **** a few times a week?
Ok, now, of those percentages, how many spaced out smack addicts commit crime? And yes, I'll agree that some steal to feed their habit.
And of the percentage that get tanked up, how many lads go out and cause a ruck?
I think the figures may be quite illuminating and all those drunken idiots taking up room in police cells every Friday and Saturday night will go some way to putting the alcohol harm statistics way in front.
The majority of my social circle drink alcohol. In my whole life I know of just one death from alcohol and he was a suicide wish anyway who knew what he was doing.
I don't know anybody who takes heroin anymore but in my life I know personally of five deaths through that hateful drug, one of which upset me deeply.
Apart from the deadly risk from the drug itself there's the added risk of contaminated needles which could pass on hepatitis B and HIV, just to name a couple.
So when I see some pillock telling me that shooting smack is less harmful than five pints of lager down the pub, I feel like punching him.
The man's only agenda, probably, is to make headlines and make a name for himself. Now he's known a little, expect the book to follow.
Alcohol more harmful than heroin? Balderdash!
This is the criteria by which our learned friend judges how harmful a drug is:
Note those last words, particularly 'crime'.
What percentage of the UK population jacks up smack?
What percentage of the UK population likes to go out on the **** a few times a week?
Ok, now, of those percentages, how many spaced out smack addicts commit crime? And yes, I'll agree that some steal to feed their habit.
And of the percentage that get tanked up, how many lads go out and cause a ruck?
I think the figures may be quite illuminating and all those drunken idiots taking up room in police cells every Friday and Saturday night will go some way to putting the alcohol harm statistics way in front.
The majority of my social circle drink alcohol. In my whole life I know of just one death from alcohol and he was a suicide wish anyway who knew what he was doing.
I don't know anybody who takes heroin anymore but in my life I know personally of five deaths through that hateful drug, one of which upset me deeply.
Apart from the deadly risk from the drug itself there's the added risk of contaminated needles which could pass on hepatitis B and HIV, just to name a couple.
So when I see some pillock telling me that shooting smack is less harmful than five pints of lager down the pub, I feel like punching him.
The man's only agenda, probably, is to make headlines and make a name for himself. Now he's known a little, expect the book to follow.
nivrip
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Deaths related to alcohol have always been much higher than those from ALL illegal drugs (not just heroin).
Some figures
More figures
Alcohol: 140 million Americans use alcohol
18 million of these abuse alcohol or are alcoholics.
100,000 deaths are due to alcohol, and an additional 100,000 deaths are alcohol related.
Heroin: 12.2 million Americans used heroin at least once in 2005. 250,000 used it weekly.
In 2006, there were almost 1000 heroin-induced deaths.
Now let's recalculate.
Deaths per user:
Alcohol = 100,000/140,000,000 = .07 % or 70 per 100,000
Heroin = 1,000/ 12,200,000 = .008 % or 8 per 100,000
Deaths per abuser:
Alcohol = 100,000/18,000,000 = .56 % or 56 per 10,000
Heroin = 1,000/ 250,000 = .40 % or 40 per 10,000
So, whether you look at users OR abusers the death rates are higher for alcohol. Drug deaths tend to be short term, often happen to the young and, therefore, are often reported in the papers whereas alcohol deaths are more likely to be long term and are rarely reported in the press. It just seems that there are more drug deaths
Some figures
More figures
Alcohol: 140 million Americans use alcohol
18 million of these abuse alcohol or are alcoholics.
100,000 deaths are due to alcohol, and an additional 100,000 deaths are alcohol related.
Heroin: 12.2 million Americans used heroin at least once in 2005. 250,000 used it weekly.
In 2006, there were almost 1000 heroin-induced deaths.
Now let's recalculate.
Deaths per user:
Alcohol = 100,000/140,000,000 = .07 % or 70 per 100,000
Heroin = 1,000/ 12,200,000 = .008 % or 8 per 100,000
Deaths per abuser:
Alcohol = 100,000/18,000,000 = .56 % or 56 per 10,000
Heroin = 1,000/ 250,000 = .40 % or 40 per 10,000
So, whether you look at users OR abusers the death rates are higher for alcohol. Drug deaths tend to be short term, often happen to the young and, therefore, are often reported in the papers whereas alcohol deaths are more likely to be long term and are rarely reported in the press. It just seems that there are more drug deaths
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Facts, figures, statistics, all easily twisted to suit.
All I know is what I've seen.
Another factor is that alcohol is legal whereas heroin is not. Ipso facto booze available to anybody, heroin a little harder to come by. That very fact alone will influence figures but those figures DO NOT PROVE ALCOHOL IS MORE HARMFUL THAN HEROIN, merely that more folks can access alcohol and therefore die from it.
If we were to believe those figures it seems that your average smack abuser actually has more sense than your average ****head.
Heroin, so I'm told, makes a person feel quite incredible.
Street smack is cut with talcum powder, insectiside, chalk, toilet cleaner, crushed aspirin and a dozen other nasties, all of which are not designed to be good for the human body and all of which lessen the effectiveness of the drug.
This means the average user uses low quality heroin and should he or she inadvertently shoot up a full dose of quality smack it will probably kill them as their body will not be used to high quality heroin.
Which is what happened to Dave. He was 22 years old.
All I know is what I've seen.
Another factor is that alcohol is legal whereas heroin is not. Ipso facto booze available to anybody, heroin a little harder to come by. That very fact alone will influence figures but those figures DO NOT PROVE ALCOHOL IS MORE HARMFUL THAN HEROIN, merely that more folks can access alcohol and therefore die from it.
If we were to believe those figures it seems that your average smack abuser actually has more sense than your average ****head.
Heroin, so I'm told, makes a person feel quite incredible.
Street smack is cut with talcum powder, insectiside, chalk, toilet cleaner, crushed aspirin and a dozen other nasties, all of which are not designed to be good for the human body and all of which lessen the effectiveness of the drug.
This means the average user uses low quality heroin and should he or she inadvertently shoot up a full dose of quality smack it will probably kill them as their body will not be used to high quality heroin.
Which is what happened to Dave. He was 22 years old.
nivrip
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floppybootstomp said:
Exactly. Your friends and acquaintances are a vey tiny number for statistical purposes. You can't judge a whole population on a few score people.
They're hard figures. 85k alcohol deaths, 17k drugs deaths. No twisting there.
Irrelevant.
It's not the total numbers that are important, it's the deaths PER USER that is the relevant fact here.
Not so. They are probably equal. And what's sense got to do with it. Neither of them WANT to die.
Exactly. Short term death that will make the newspapers. Alcoholics tend to drift away quietly to a death that the press are not interested in.
Sorry to hear about your friend Dave. Sad waste of a life. I have known three people who died from alcohol related illnesses, all much older than Dave. It was awful to see their final years as their lives slowly deteriorated.
EvanDavis
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floppybootstomp said:
Not to keen on the term "smack head" as its a form of discrimintaion as is p*ss head I suppose. Bu t I will agree on the incredible side. My bother has been on Heroin for near 20 years, he is an industrial architect, he is good at his work, but every time he try's to get of the gear his work plummets. Some say its just his withdrawl that causes it. If you met him yo would never know he was a user. He has a wife, 3 kids and a normal job. With heroin from my research, its not the heroin that kills, but the crap they mix it with to make a few extra quid on top. I know a few users and tehy seem to be in less trouble and healthier than mates hat are serious drinkers.
nivrip
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troy614 said:
No, it simply means that there are a huge number of sober drivers and a relatively small number of drunk drivers on the road at any time. If you look at the number of accidents PER 100 DRIVERS then there will be more accidents in the drunk group.
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nivrip said:
Exactly. Which proves figures can be used and manipulated to further any individual's needs.
Which I believe is the point Troy was making with his post
And which is why I never, ever, believe them statistics and figures 'from a reliable source'. About as reliable as quotes from a self appointed expert.
Becoming quite heated, this one, innit
Which is why I may, or may not, reply to the points made above.
Suffice to say I loathe heroin and I love Guinness which probably colours my view on the whole subject just a little bit.
But for now I will reiterate that the person who released the results of this study used crime and the impact on society to compile his final figures and I think it's pretty damn obvious booze causes more trouble in those departments than most any other drug at all.