What is METRO (as far as a file)?

[casey.o]

Yea, I know Metro is that ugly desktop that has been forced on everyone
who uses Windows8. A desktop which comes from the factory filled with
advertising for Netflix, Ebay, Amazon, and lots of other large
commercial companies. And it looks like a smartphone, and has the
capability to be used as a touchscreen (but I guess you need a special
monitor for that).

Anyhow, I know what Metro is, but I am asking what it really is, at the
file level. In other words, is it an unremovable part of Win8, or is it
merely just a desktop laid on top of older versions of Windows NT based
OSs? I recall using Windows 3.x years ago, and you could alternative
desktops that could replace the default one that came with Win3.x. This
makes me wonder if Metro can be turned off? Is there some hidden
desktop which looks like XP or Win7 available inside the OS that can
replace Metro? Or are there aftermarket desktop programs that can be
installed to make Win8 look like XP, or something else?????

I have no intention of using Win8 or even Win7 or Vista. I'm just
curious. I do however think Metro is the ugliest desktop that MS ever
created, and hope I never have to use it. I know if I did, the first
thing I'd do is remove all the advertising, which woud leave a pretty
empty screen.

I thought an "OPERATING SYSTEM" was only supposed to operate the
hardware. Seems like MS forgot this, and think we all want to use their
often repulsive crap! (Just my 2 cents worth of opinion).....

 

[Paul]

Yea, I know Metro is that ugly desktop that has been forced on everyone
who uses Windows8. A desktop which comes from the factory filled with
advertising for Netflix, Ebay, Amazon, and lots of other large
commercial companies. And it looks like a smartphone, and has the
capability to be used as a touchscreen (but I guess you need a special
monitor for that).

Anyhow, I know what Metro is, but I am asking what it really is, at the
file level. In other words, is it an unremovable part of Win8, or is it
merely just a desktop laid on top of older versions of Windows NT based
OSs? I recall using Windows 3.x years ago, and you could alternative
desktops that could replace the default one that came with Win3.x. This
makes me wonder if Metro can be turned off? Is there some hidden
desktop which looks like XP or Win7 available inside the OS that can
replace Metro? Or are there aftermarket desktop programs that can be
installed to make Win8 look like XP, or something else?????

I have no intention of using Win8 or even Win7 or Vista. I'm just
curious. I do however think Metro is the ugliest desktop that MS ever
created, and hope I never have to use it. I know if I did, the first
thing I'd do is remove all the advertising, which woud leave a pretty
empty screen.

I thought an "OPERATING SYSTEM" was only supposed to operate the
hardware. Seems like MS forgot this, and think we all want to use their
often repulsive crap! (Just my 2 cents worth of opinion).....

The only comments I've seen, are that Metro subsystem could be
removed, but at the expense of some regular desktop decorations
getting damaged. So it's possible that some rendering functions
spill over from such a "modification". Which would be typical
Microsoft "almost modular" design. They make software with just
enough hooks, to make a mess when it is removed.

When Windows 8.1 U2 comes out (some time soon), the Metro programs
on it, will open in a separate window, and not take up the full
screen. That does not mean the Metro all-consuming screen thing
is gone entirely. Merely that if you buy an application from
the Microsoft App Store, it can be run similar to an old
desktop program. This appears to be a new operating mode for
Metro-based applications. This capability is being added, to
convince developers in the Microsoft ecosystem, that their
market will extend to the small percentage of Win8 desktop users.
Whereas if you look at the charts, right now most people
are on Windows 7.

Paul

 

[Mayayana]

| Anyhow, I know what Metro is, but I am asking what it really is, at the
| file level. In other words, is it an unremovable part of Win8, or is it
| merely just a desktop laid on top of older versions of Windows NT based
| OSs?

Interesting question. There's a general explanation here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RunTime

It's complicated by two things: Microsoft is constantly
changing their strategy and Microsoft technical information
tends to be colored by marketing. So it's not easy to get
clear answers about things. (There are still .Net programmers
who think that .Net is the replacement API for Windows,
yet .Net is being demoted to a status of "adequate for
writing Metro apps".)

I don't know which actual files comprise WinRT, but some
indication can be gleaned from the descriptions. Microsoft
presents it as a quasi-COM (component) system that runs
on top of Windows in a very restricted way. Some sources
claim that it's a separate API, but that doesn't really make
sense. A separate API would mean a separate OS. More likely
Metro/RT is a set of wrapper components, something like
ActiveX controls, combined with runtime functionality
libraries that may or may not wrap the basic Win32 libraries.
Metro apps can be written in C++, but they can also be
written in Javascript with the UI coded as a webpage, in
HTML/CSS. In other words, MS has created a high-level,
restricted, web-app system that operates something like
scripted webpages and is cut off from the actual OS.

That design achieves several things:

1) Like .Net, it's an attempt to create a stable, sandboxed
system that gets 3rd-party programmers out of the OS proper.
But it's much more restrictive than .Net. In most cases one
can't even use a Metro app without getting it through the
Windows online store.

2) By creating the system as a restricted sandbox, Microsoft
takes control of the 3rd-party software market. (They get a
30% cut of Metro app sales.) They also take a big step toward
more solid security and stability, since no one but MS themselves
can actually access the OS directly.

3) While Metro apps are strikingly inappropriate on the
Desktop, putting Metro there serves as an introduction
and a "training" of Microsoft customers, making the
Metro-only UIs of WinRT tablets and Windows phones more
attractive and familiar. In other words, to some extent
Metro on Win8 is essentially just one big marketing demo.
(I doubt the Microsofties even hope for notable success
of Metro apps on Win8.)

Microsoft historically made their money targetting business
use, but they see Apple making billions by selling locked-
down entertainment devices. And there's not so much money
to be made on basic software anymore. Metro provides a
distinctive system to copy Apple's strategy on phones and
tablets, with consistency across devices. Maybe they also
hope for some success on PCs. Maybe not. Either way,
Metro on PCs is part of their strategy. Corporate customers
will just block out Metro if they're ever forced to use Win8,
but home customers are being gently (or maybe not so gently)
coerced into exploring web apps, getting a Microsoft tracking
ID, buying software at the Windows Store, etc. Windows PCs
become Microsoft's web services terminals, and Win8 users
are unavoidably trained to buy MS services through the process
of trying to use their Win8 PC. Presumably that will make them
more open to buying tile City tablets and phones.
The success of selling such services, and making lots of money
from ads and datamining, depends on having lots of glittery
diddle-apps that people want to use. But it also depends on
Microsoft having a locked-down system that enables them to
control what end users and programmers alike can do. And it
depends on them getting people familiar with that locked-down
Tile City UI.

Whether it's possible to just excise Metro/RT, like a small
skin cancer, is another question. I wouldn't be surprised if
someone takes that on, but I haven't seen any signs of it.
The reaction so far seems to be just one of distaste: People
don't have to use Tile City so they just avoid it. That's certainly
true for me. I see no redeeming features in Metro/RT, so I'm
not curious to learn more about it.
I think Paul makes a good point, though: Microsoft are very
good at creating complications. Given their overall strategy,
they would be crazy not to make an unspeakable mess of
Windows/RT integration, in order to discourage people from
trying to excise Metro/RT from Win8.

 

[casey.o]

Tile City UI.

Whether it's possible to just excise Metro/RT, like a small
skin cancer, is another question. I wouldn't be surprised if
someone takes that on, but I haven't seen any signs of it.
The reaction so far seems to be just one of distaste: People
don't have to use Tile City so they just avoid it. That's certainly
true for me. I see no redeeming features in Metro/RT, so I'm
not curious to learn more about it.
I think Paul makes a good point, though: Microsoft are very
good at creating complications. Given their overall strategy,
they would be crazy not to make an unspeakable mess of
Windows/RT integration, in order to discourage people from
trying to excise Metro/RT from Win8.

Thanks for the info from both of you. At least I have a better
understanding of it. But at the same time, I dont want any part of
their software. As I've said before, I find XP too restrictive and
complicated. I still like Win98 the best, simply because*I* have
control of it. Win2000 is not all that bed either. XP began the "let
MS control you" mentality. And it seems to have gotten much worse.

The big problem seems to be the fact that there are no real alternatives
to MS. Linux is too hard to use for most basic computer users.
Installing it is simple compared to what it was ten or more years ago,
but the moment it needs to be fixed or modified, I've learned that
involves the command line. That linux commad line is not for the failt
of heart. In fact I have a better understanding of computers than most
people, and a strong background with Dos. But that linux commandline
completely puts me off.

What we need is for someone else to step up to bat. Something that is
totally new. MS seems to have left the average home computer user in
the dirt, and anything based on Unix is not for them either. There nmay
be a time some alternative is created, but until then, we can only
continue to use the older software and try to make it worlk on the newer
web. Unfortunately yhe web is what has destroyed usding the oldest
operating systems. I was perfectly happy with Win98 till a couple years
ago, when the old browsers just would not work properly anymore.....

You are right, most people do not seem happy with Win8. Maybe MS will
have to learn a hard lesson once and for all. It's abotu time. All
they do is keep making things more complicated and taking away our
freedom to use our computers.

I had this happen just yesterday. I used a XP CD to reformat that
external harddrive that had a bad MBR. I booted from the CD, removed
the entie partition, created TWO partitions, and formatted them. All
was well. Then I used the MD command to make a directory on each
partition (just to have something to look at besides a blank screen). I
got a message saying "Access Denied". You would not have wanted to hear
the language I used at that moment. It'sd my own f**king computer, dont
tell me I cant create a f**king folder...... Which is not even a
destructive command..... All I know that as long as MS continues on the
patth it's presently on, I will continue to seek out alternatives. I
just dont like their crap......

 

[casey.o]

As far as I'm concerned, whether or not it's ugly is irrelevant. It's
an interface which was designed for tablet computers, and I think it's
excellent for that. If, however, you use a desktop computer, the
desktop interface is much better as far as I'm concerned. I think
Microsoft did a very poor job of making it clear that there are two
interfaces and which one you use is up to you.

I guess so, I have never heard anything about there being a second
desktop, and always heard that one called Metro. But I dont have enough
computer popwer to run it anyhow, and already know I'd not like it just
based on it's complexity and bloat. After all, I'm the guy who finds XP
too bloated and complicated. At this point, I'll just continue to enjoy
Win98 like I've done for years, and use XP when I have to. If I do win
the lottery, I'd probably buy a Mac. But I'm still planning to rent one
of them for a month to see if I like it. I'm just gettinmg real sick of
MS software, and there is really no alternative for a casual user like
myself. Linux has potential, but it requires the mind of a dedicated
geek, and that's not me. It's a real shame that MS has the whole
monopoly on the PC, which was designed to use lots of operating systems.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Yea, I know Metro is that ugly desktop that has been forced on everyone
who uses Windows8.

No, it's not.

First, its name was changed from Metro (which was used in the beta) to
Modern, in the released version of Windows 8.

Second, a better word for it than "desktop" is "interface."

Third, and most important, is that it hasn't been forced on anyone.
It's one of the two interfaces that come with Windows 8, and its use
is entirely optional. For example, I never use it.

A desktop which comes from the factory filled with
advertising for Netflix, Ebay, Amazon, and lots of other large
commercial companies. And it looks like a smartphone, and has the
capability to be used as a touchscreen (but I guess you need a special
monitor for that).

Anyhow, I know what Metro is, but I am asking what it really is, at the
file level. In other words, is it an unremovable part of Win8, or is it
merely just a desktop laid on top of older versions of Windows NT based
OSs? I recall using Windows 3.x years ago, and you could alternative
desktops that could replace the default one that came with Win3.x. This
makes me wonder if Metro can be turned off? Is there some hidden
desktop which looks like XP or Win7 available inside the OS that can
replace Metro? Or are there aftermarket desktop programs that can be
installed to make Win8 look like XP, or something else?????

It can be used or not used, as I said above. If you don't use it, the
desktop interface is very close to Windows 7's. And it can be made
much closer by adding a third-party program, of which there are
several. They are all free or very inexpensive. My personal favorite,
and the one I use, is Start8, which costs only $4.99 US,

I have no intention of using Win8 or even Win7 or Vista.

Your choice entirely, but as far as I'm concerned, you're making a big
mistake.

I'm just
curious. I do however think Metro is the ugliest desktop that MS ever
created, and hope I never have to use it. I know if I did, the first
thing I'd do is remove all the advertising, which woud leave a pretty
empty screen.

As far as I'm concerned, whether or not it's ugly is irrelevant. It's
an interface which was designed for tablet computers, and I think it's
excellent for that. If, however, you use a desktop computer, the
desktop interface is much better as far as I'm concerned. I think
Microsoft did a very poor job of making it clear that there are two
interfaces and which one you use is up to you.

 

[Mayayana]

| I guess so, I have never heard anything about there being a second
| desktop, and always heard that one called Metro.

Rumor has it that they ran into a copyroght issue
with "Metro". Maybe that's true. It's ended up sticking,
though. It's sort of like Prince. You can call him Prince.
You can call him the musician who's no longer known as
Prince. But there isn't really another option. It's the same
with Microsoft's official terms: Modern Style or Windows
8 Style. Both are ambiguous and unusable to describe
the UI. Metro is not Windows 8. It's really not even Windows.
(Remember that Windows was named for the fact that
it employed windows.) And "Modern"? What does that mean?
Nothing.
I don't know of anything but Metro or Tile UI
that's really a feasible name, and a lot of people don't
know that Microsoft is calling those giant buttons "tiles".
So...
"The Giant-Buttons-Known-As-Tiles Desktop Option
Formerly Known As Metro"?

..... I think I'll just stick with Metro.

 

[casey.o]

Rumor has it that they ran into a copyroght issue
with "Metro". Maybe that's true. It's ended up sticking,
though. It's sort of like Prince. You can call him Prince.
You can call him the musician who's no longer known as
Prince. But there isn't really another option. It's the same
with Microsoft's official terms: Modern Style or Windows
8 Style. Both are ambiguous and unusable to describe
the UI. Metro is not Windows 8. It's really not even Windows.
(Remember that Windows was named for the fact that
it employed windows.) And "Modern"? What does that mean?
Nothing.
I don't know of anything but Metro or Tile UI
that's really a feasible name, and a lot of people don't
know that Microsoft is calling those giant buttons "tiles".
So...
"The Giant-Buttons-Known-As-Tiles Desktop Option
Formerly Known As Metro"?

.... I think I'll just stick with Metro.

Same here.....

You wont be able to call it MODERN in a few years from now....

Metro is also used to describe the Metropolitan part of a city, which is
just a word that seems to have appeared several decades ago. And then
there is the word Metrosexual. I dont quite understand that one.... but
I dont really understand anyone under the age of 40 anyhow
Tiles, at least that makes sense, but I can just look at the floor to
see tiles Which reminds me. When I was a kid, I had a relative who
did floor covering. He saved all the leftover tiles from jobs, and used
them in his house. That floor looked almost like the "Metro" screen on
Win8. But since I remember that floor, I guess it was more impressive
than "regular" floors.....

 

[Mayayana]

| You wont be able to call it MODERN in a few years from now....
|

Even now there's nothing that makes it modern. It's just
a UI design. Microsoft is very clever about coming up with
language corruptions like that, embedding a value judgement
in what's meant to be just a name or term. It's very sleazy. My
favorite one is calling a programming project a "solution".
Of course it's not a solution until it's finished and solves
some kind of problem.
There was a similar ploy with "Windows ME". ME stood for
Millenium Edition, which was silly enough. But then I read
that MS was pressuring media people to always write it
as "Me" rather than "ME". The packaging used ambiguous
cursive. It was a way for MS to call it "windows me", without
actually taking credit for such a tacky, childish name.

|And then
| there is the word Metrosexual. I dont quite understand that one.... but
| I dont really understand anyone under the age of 40 anyhow

I think it refers to mildly androgenous urban hipsters.
There are straight men and gays, and then there are the
dandies who wear expensive pre-stressed jeans, shave all of
their body hair but have one day's stubble, carefully trimmed,
on their face, use tanning lotion, have a perm, and maybe a
leather jacket. It's a studied and vain enactment of traditional
masculinity, in a way that no traditionally masculine man would
do: The macho wimp. He looks like he's been repairing his
motorcycle or hang gliding or camping in the woods, but who
has time for that, what with hairdresser appointments and
clothes shopping to do?

 

[casey.o]

| You wont be able to call it MODERN in a few years from now....
|

Even now there's nothing that makes it modern. It's just
a UI design. Microsoft is very clever about coming up with
language corruptions like that, embedding a value judgement
in what's meant to be just a name or term. It's very sleazy. My
favorite one is calling a programming project a "solution".
Of course it's not a solution until it's finished and solves
some kind of problem.
There was a similar ploy with "Windows ME". ME stood for
Millenium Edition, which was silly enough. But then I read
that MS was pressuring media people to always write it
as "Me" rather than "ME". The packaging used ambiguous
cursive. It was a way for MS to call it "windows me", without
actually taking credit for such a tacky, childish name.

Advertising in general, for everything is generally deceptive. I get a
laugh out of these commercials that promote lawsuits against drug
manufacturers, because they will say something like "if you or a loved
one has experienced xxxxxxxxx symptoms, or died, call us at
1-800-xxxxxxxxx. I'm still trying to figure out how a dead person is
able to use a phone.......

Windows ME was another of MS's flops. It almost seems like every THIRD
of their upgrades is a flop. For example
Win95 - Good (for it's time)
Win98 - Good
WinME - Flop
Win2000 - Good
WinXP - Good
Vista - Flop
Win7 - Good
Win8 (undecided so far)

The funny thing is that I've heard over and over that WinME was bad, yet
after all these years, no one has ever clearly been able to state what
was really wrong with it..... I probably would have tried it, but I was
always told to avoid it, but never why.....
I'm not even sure if WinME was really a NT based OS, or not. I've only
heard it contains some NT code, and Win2000 was the first real NT based
Windows (not including the old OSs which were called NT).

Actually, I dio have a part of ME installed. It's the DEFRAG program
which was far superior to the one that came with Win98. Back then,
everyone that knew anything, replaced their Defrag file. Aside from
that. ME always seemed vague, and something to avoid. At least the
faults in Vista were more well known. and reported.

|And then
| there is the word Metrosexual. I dont quite understand that one.... but
| I dont really understand anyone under the age of 40 anyhow

I think it refers to mildly androgenous urban hipsters.
There are straight men and gays, and then there are the
dandies who wear expensive pre-stressed jeans, shave all of
their body hair but have one day's stubble, carefully trimmed,
on their face, use tanning lotion, have a perm, and maybe a
leather jacket. It's a studied and vain enactment of traditional
masculinity, in a way that no traditionally masculine man would
do: The macho wimp. He looks like he's been repairing his
motorcycle or hang gliding or camping in the woods, but who
has time for that, what with hairdresser appointments and
clothes shopping to do?

I'll never be one of them....... <LOL>

But I've been referred to as both a Hippie and a Redneck. I NEVER KNEW
IT WAS POSSIBLE TO BE BOTH.....

Well, I better go, so I can make an appointment with my hairdresser.

But this message solves the MS dilemma. Just call it the Metrosexual
Desktop ....... ^)=\

 

[Mayayana]

| Windows ME was another of MS's flops. It almost seems like every THIRD
| of their upgrades is a flop. For example
| Win95 - Good (for it's time)
| Win98 - Good
| WinME - Flop
| Win2000 - Good
| WinXP - Good
| Vista - Flop
| Win7 - Good
|

I guess people probably have different opinions there. To
my mind WinMe was just an overproduced version of 98, while
XP was an overproduced version of 2000. Both added to the
hassle. (WinME did have some specific faults that I know of,
in particluar with Active Desktop display, but in general it
seemed fine to me.)

Vista was a flop in part because it was such an extreme
change. Also in part because of the scandal with PCs that
weren't capable of Aero display. People got very confused.
(Microsoft employees got very confused!) As far as I can
see, Win7 is little more than Vista with the nags toned down.
But that makes a big difference to someone who never
changes settings. A lot of these things seem to apply mostly
to people who never even try to tweak the system.

I've found that XP and
Win7 are both reasonably usable, but both required a lot
of wasted time in research in order to get them to that
point, and each version is harder to clean up than the last.
If you shut down most services in XP, disable System File
Protection, shut off System Restore, shut off the kitchy
graphic effects and the Fischer-Price skinning nonsense....
in short, get rid of unnecessary bloat and restrictions....
then you get something like a more efficient version of 98.
Win7 can get a similar makeover, but it can't be entirely
cleaned up, or at least I don't know a way to do it at this
point. (Two big points: 1) It can't be taken off NTFS, so the
file restrictions mess can't be completely avoided. 2) I haven't
found a stable, safe way to remove the winsxs bloat. Vista/7
is simply far bigger than it needs to be.)

| Win8 (undecided so far)

I think it's safe to say that Win8 is a flop:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/06/02/microsoft_windows_7_half_way_milestone/

It's the first version where friends who know nothing
about computers have asked me how to buy a new
computer without getting "that Windows 8 thing". In
other words, the word on the street is that it's bad.
It's so bad that the lapdog tech media will even say
that it's bad. And that takes a lot of bad.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <[email protected]>,

Yea, I know Metro is that ugly desktop that has been forced on everyone

Or modern.
[]

capability to be used as a touchscreen (but I guess you need a special
monitor for that).

Yes, indeed you do. (Many 8 portable PCs have such of course.)

Anyhow, I know what Metro is, but I am asking what it really is, at the
file level. In other words, is it an unremovable part of Win8, or is it
merely just a desktop laid on top of older versions of Windows NT based

Well, not on top of older versions, but W8 does have a more conventional
alternative, especially 8.1. (However, MS haven't been too good at
letting on about that, and the stores selling it even less so, at least
here in UK.)

OSs? I recall using Windows 3.x years ago, and you could alternative
desktops that could replace the default one that came with Win3.x. This

I think "shells" rather than "desktops" is the word more commonly used.

makes me wonder if Metro can be turned off? Is there some hidden
desktop which looks like XP or Win7 available inside the OS that can

Even in 8.0, clicking the "Desktop" tile gets you there.

replace Metro? Or are there aftermarket desktop programs that can be
installed to make Win8 look like XP, or something else?????

Lots; the two best known being classic shell (free), and Start8
(sometimes jokingly known as StarDate) (about $5). I've only played with
Classic Shell, and that very briefly, but long enough to discover that
it allows you to make the start menu (and probably other parts) look
like XP, Vista, or 7.
[]

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <[email protected]>, "Ken Blake,

Third, and most important, is that it hasn't been forced on anyone.
It's one of the two interfaces that come with Windows 8, and its use
is entirely optional. For example, I never use it.

Well, that's a _bit_ disingenuous: OK, it isn't obligatory, but that
fact isn't at all well publicised, either by Microsoft or - especially -
the majority of shops selling W8 machines (at least here in UK).
[]

excellent for that. If, however, you use a desktop computer, the
desktop interface is much better as far as I'm concerned. I think
Microsoft did a very poor job of making it clear that there are two
interfaces and which one you use is up to you.

Indeed.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Science is built with facts as a house is with stones--but a collection of facts
is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house. -Jules Henry Poincare
(1854-1912)

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <[email protected]>,

of them for a month to see if I like it. I'm just gettinmg real sick of
MS software, and there is really no alternative for a casual user like

MS operating systems you mean. If you give up fighting it and just
ignore it, you'll find there's a lot of non-MS software - a lot of it
free - that will _run_ under XP.

myself. Linux has potential, but it requires the mind of a dedicated
geek, and that's not me. It's a real shame that MS has the whole
monopoly on the PC, which was designed to use lots of operating systems.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Science is built with facts as a house is with stones--but a collection of facts
is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house. -Jules Henry Poincare
(1854-1912)

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

In message <[email protected]>, "Ken Blake,

Well, that's a _bit_ disingenuous: OK, it isn't obligatory, but that
fact isn't at all well publicised, either by Microsoft or - especially -
the majority of shops selling W8 machines (at least here in UK).

Yes, that's exactly my point. See my next comment, which you copied
below

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <[email protected]>, Mayayana

If you shut down most services in XP, disable System File
Protection, shut off System Restore, shut off the kitchy
graphic effects and the Fischer-Price skinning nonsense....
in short, get rid of unnecessary bloat and restrictions....
then you get something like a more efficient version of 98.

Now, if we could only get casey.o to see that ... (-:

Win7 can get a similar makeover, but it can't be entirely
cleaned up, or at least I don't know a way to do it at this
point. (Two big points: 1) It can't be taken off NTFS, so the
file restrictions mess can't be completely avoided. 2) I haven't
found a stable, safe way to remove the winsxs bloat. Vista/7
is simply far bigger than it needs to be.)

I've found it OK, but then I have it on a much more powerful PC than my
XP one.

| Win8 (undecided so far)

I think it's safe to say that Win8 is a flop:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/06/02/microsoft_windows_7_half_way_milestone/

It's the first version where friends who know nothing
about computers have asked me how to buy a new
computer without getting "that Windows 8 thing". In
other words, the word on the street is that it's bad.

I think the tablets and other alternatives are making real inroads into
the new-computer market. In the face of that, the "7 or 8" question is
probably on the back burner (though in terms of what's available in the
High Street [UK; "on Main Street", US], though [UK anyway] 8 is much
more available in supermarkets than 7.)

It's so bad that the lapdog tech media will even say
that it's bad. And that takes a lot of bad.

But they're like dogs in another way, they're pack animals: even if it
were to become good, now they've decided it's bad, they won't
acknowledge the change. So I mostly ignore them.