What if you need to reinstall Vista but only bought the upgrade?

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I have XP and considering getting Vista. Trying to decided between the
upgrade version or the full version but I have a question. Say I buy the
upgrade version and then a year or 2 from now I replace my HDD or my system
crashes and I need to reinstall Vista. Will I be required to reinstall XP
first then Vista if I buy the upgrade version?
 
RollTide1017 said:
I have XP and considering getting Vista. Trying to decided between
the upgrade version or the full version but I have a question. Say I
buy the upgrade version and then a year or 2 from now I replace my
HDD or my system crashes and I need to reinstall Vista. Will I be
required to reinstall XP first then Vista if I buy the upgrade
version?
===================================
Maybe the following article will clarify:

(918884) How to install Windows Vista
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/918884/en-us


--

John Inzer
MS Picture It! MVP

Digital Image
Highlights and FAQs
http://tinyurl.com/aczzp

Notice
This is not tech support
I am a volunteer

Solutions that work for
me may not work for you

Proceed at your own risk
 
RollTide1017 said:
I have XP and considering getting Vista. Trying to decided between the
upgrade version or the full version but I have a question. Say I buy the
upgrade version and then a year or 2 from now I replace my HDD or my
system
crashes and I need to reinstall Vista. Will I be required to reinstall XP
first then Vista if I buy the upgrade version?


Recently there has been a procedure documented on a variety of sites that
allows for you to install an upgrade addition of Vista without the
qualifying OS being installed. It has not been around long enough or tested
enough to know the long term effects of this, especially on activation, so
for now I can't say that would work for you.

That said the the answer to your question would be yes, reinstall XP then do
the upgrade. There are other ways around this, however. One way is to
image the Vista install after it's activated (and image it regularly part of
a normal backup) and restore the image if a problem arises. I would also
recommend you image the XP installation prior to the upgrade so you have
something to restore if the upgrade doesn't work for you.

The Business, Enterprise and Ultimate versions of Vista come with Complete
PC Backup which is an imaging backup. It can be used to create the Vista
image. Acronis True Image 10 works in both Vista and XP, and does imaging
and file backups. It's a nice program with more features than Vista's
Complete PC Backup.
 
Rock,

Just a note about the backup/restore program. It works, I tested it but you
cannot restore to a different disk - at least it wouldn't allow me to. No
way to change the target drive. It's a limited program - will do the basics
but one of the other disc imaging programs out there would be a better
choice for someone needing the flexibility and power of a better imaging
program.

I'll be making a post about not being able to install Vista x64 to a SATA
drive - and what I've found out so far. Right now I'm testing installing
Vista x86 (32 bit version) to a SATA drive. More later.

Bob S.
 
BobS said:
Rock,

Just a note about the backup/restore program. It works, I tested it but
you cannot restore to a different disk - at least it wouldn't allow me to.
No way to change the target drive. It's a limited program - will do the
basics but one of the other disc imaging programs out there would be a
better choice for someone needing the flexibility and power of a better
imaging program.

I'll be making a post about not being able to install Vista x64 to a SATA
drive - and what I've found out so far. Right now I'm testing installing
Vista x86 (32 bit version) to a SATA drive. More later.

Ok I have made images with it but haven't played with the restore yet. I
also have Drive Image 7 installed under XP on this system that's in a
multiboot with Vista, and have images of all drives made under that, and I
just got Acronis True Image 10 - great sale price from Newegg.com at $26.00.
Got it installed on Vista but haven't gone beyond creating the Bootable
Rescue Media. It definitely has more features. For basic image based
backup I think Complete PC Backup is fine for many.
 
That was the plan and intent ... that you would have to reinstall XP.

But it turns out that there is a way to circumvent it and install from
the upgrade version without installing XP first. Even to a completely
blank new hard drive.
 
Zim Babwe said:
Why not tell him the easy way of doin' it? It should save some time since
he IS licensed

http://www.instantvista.com/windows-vista-upgrade.html


The question is, will he have a VALID license after upgrading an upgrade?
Microsoft upgrades work this way:
1) One must have a PREVIOUS valid license to use Upgrade media.
2) This previous valid license serves as the basis for using the Upgrade
media, and the previous license becomes invalid once it is used as the base
for an upgrade.

Which leads to a question: Can an invalid upgrade license serve as the
base for an upgrade of itself? Until now, this has never been the case with
Upgrade products from Microsoft, which leads to this conclusion: the
recently discovered method of using upgrade media to install Vista over
itself is apparently a huge bug, which Microsoft never discovered until it
was pointed out to them. Something tells me that this hole will be filled
rather quickly by Microsoft.
 
Why won't he have a valid license after the upgrade? He has a valid copy of
XP. He purchased an Upgrade Vista copy. Both legal.

Only the install is different, but the results are the same. One
functioning OS on his computer. No problem. Not trying to cheat anyone
here.

Your other question, with an invalid upgrade license. Of course he is
violating the EULA, but will the Microsoft Police catch him? Probably not,
but they screwed up big time if that's the case.

If buildings were built by programmers, the first wind would knock them
down.
 
Zim Babwe said:
Why won't he have a valid license after the upgrade? He has a valid copy
of XP. He purchased an Upgrade Vista copy. Both legal.

Only the install is different, but the results are the same. One
functioning OS on his computer. No problem. Not trying to cheat anyone
here.

Your other question, with an invalid upgrade license. Of course he is
violating the EULA, but will the Microsoft Police catch him? Probably
not, but they screwed up big time if that's the case.

If buildings were built by programmers, the first wind would knock them
down.

His upgrade license would ONLY be valid if it were installed according to
the EULA for Upgrades.
I'm afraid all these people using this method to do a clean install of Vista
using an upgrade key are in for a big surprise from WGA at sometime in the
future.

DON'T get me wrong: I believe Vista's Upgrade policy is highly illegal
itself.



While his installation media may be valid, his license would not be valid,
since it would not be installed according to the EULA for an upgrade.

Since Microsoft is not a public police agency, I doubt that their "police"
will get him. But they refer such things to the Courts, who DO.
 
His upgrade license would ONLY be valid if it were installed according to
the EULA for Upgrades.
I'm afraid all these people using this method to do a clean install of Vista
using an upgrade key are in for a big surprise from WGA at sometime in the
future.

DON'T get me wrong: I believe Vista's Upgrade policy is highly illegal
itself.

If Microsoft invested as much resources into fixing bugs in Windows
than they obviously do attempting to prevent illegal use of their
software with half-ass activation schemes which NEVER defeats real
pirates or hackers in the first place, (Microsoft admission) then the
millions of customers that keep plooping down money for each new BUGGY
upgrade wouldn't get so pissed-off wasting countless hours of their
valuable time doing what Microsoft should have done itself.

Why should I or anybody else pay $150 or more to be a unpaid beta
tester for Windows?
 
Adam Albright said:
If Microsoft invested as much resources into fixing bugs in Windows
than they obviously do attempting to prevent illegal use of their
software with half-ass activation schemes which NEVER defeats real
pirates or hackers in the first place, (Microsoft admission) then the
millions of customers that keep plooping down money for each new BUGGY
upgrade wouldn't get so pissed-off wasting countless hours of their
valuable time doing what Microsoft should have done itself.

Why should I or anybody else pay $150 or more to be a unpaid beta
tester for Windows?

NOTE, Adam, that I was not complaining about the price of Vista, or what may
or may not be finished. Actually, I was not complaining about anything. I
love Vista. It works great on my machine, and is more stable than any other
Windows OS I've used since 3.1.

For all I know, Microsoft kept the hole in its upgrade mechanism
intentionally, to give folks a break. I would prefer to think well of
Microsoft, rather than evil.

Microsoft spent around 2 billions of US dollars to get it out the door and
on the shelves. How many other software developers spend so much money on a
product? Not many, I am sure.

Additionally, Vista is the most tested of ALL Windows versions. In the
millions of lines of tight code which is the source for Vista, it is easy to
overlook a glaring hole from time to time. Especially when engineers are
under time constraints because of pressure from the bean-counters and high
mucka-mucks in the front office to get the product out the front door.
Something tells me that Microsoft's engineers spent MANY sleepless nights
writing code so we could have a decent product. Nights they should have
been spending with their wives and children. Millions of citizens tested
Vista extensively before it was released to the General Public on Jan.30
this year. Yet NOONE found this hole in spite of all the testing. Only
when citizens started fiddling with their installs did it surface.

Even with automated testing (as they do in their software labs), those test
suites can miss a hole once in a while. Especially logical holes. If code
is constructed correctly, and the logic is correct (but dead wrong), an
automated suite can easily miss something which would be rather glaringly
wrong to a human being.

"Shoulda, coulda, woulda" is easy to say from your quiet desk. It's a
little harder in the Lab.

In conclusion, in NO WAY is Vista (the RTM) a "beta". Among the millions of
users who will be switching to Vista soon, a few here and there will be
unsatisfied, simply because NOTHING can satisfy them. Microsoft could have
spent 20 billions of dollars on the product's development, could have made
the betas and release candidates available to 20 millions of users, could
have submitted the code to a bank of Cray super-computers for testing, and
those few would STILL be unsatisfied with the final product.

I worked in the Restaurant business for many years. The same is true for
their customers. Most will like the product, but a few will be unsatisfied
no matter what.

If Microsoft could have gone to each individual human being in the US and
the EU and asked their opinions one at a time, and there would STILL always
be a few individuals who can't be pleased no matter what. This is because
they are simply unsatisfied individuals within themselves. This
dissatisfaction will show in EVERY aspect of their lives, if they are
carefully examined.

By the way, I paid $135 for my copy of Vista Home Premium (OEM), because I
am not afraid or unprepared to backup my data before changing OSes. I am
fully prepared for clean installations, since they are always best for ANY
operating system, in my opinion. Of course, being retired, I probably have
more time on my hands than most. But my time is just as precious to me as
yours is to you. Maybe even more so, since I only have a few more years
left on this earth. So I do understand your concern for valuable time spent
uselessly.

I personally preferred the old style of upgrading to a newer Microsoft OS.
I preferred this because it was much simpler when it came to Activating the
OS. Nevertheless, I've never spent more than 5 minutes speaking to an
Activation support person via telephone. And I've NEVER been denied an
Activation, even when I shouldn't have gotten one, if truth be told. I also
preferred using Upgrade media, because I could transfer the license to a new
computer, or switch out the motherboard if it went tits-up, or if I just
wanted to update my machine.

My installation of Vista Home Premium took less than 30 minutes of my
precious time. This is the quickest any Microsoft Windows installation has
ever been for me.

But long ago, I learned to slow down, and smell the roses. I get along much
better with myself, my friends and family, and my God if I do that. I am
still learning that my time is too valuable to be spent complaining,
bitching, and moaning over useless things. I am learning to accept things
as they are, and accept others as they are (I don't claim that I am perfect
in this attitude, since anyone who has ever read my Usenet posts can attest
to my imperfection). When I do that, I soon begin to notice the GOOD in
folks and (yes) software, rather than the things which cause me to waste my
time by making a big thing out of a small one.

If you don't like Vista, don't use it. No one is standing over you twisting
your arm. You are a free man, and can do what you please. I would never
try to stop this, nor would Microsoft, I feel sure. My brother finally
made a break from Microsoft products and Wintels a few years ago, because he
didn't like Windows. He now uses a Mac and Apple software, and is
completely happy with them. Even to the point of being an evangelist for
Apples (informally, of course)

I do encourage Microsoft (if by chance they are reading this) to fix this
hole quickly (if it is a hole), and clarify their policy about this
PUBLICALLY (not buried deep in an obscure Microsoft Security Bulletin
somewhere on their various websites.)

Anyway, my 2cents worth.
 
Donald McDaniel said:
The question is, will he have a VALID license after upgrading an upgrade?
Microsoft upgrades work this way:
1) One must have a PREVIOUS valid license to use Upgrade media.
2) This previous valid license serves as the basis for using the Upgrade media, and the
previous license becomes invalid once it is used as the base for an upgrade.

Which leads to a question: Can an invalid upgrade license serve as the base for an upgrade
of itself? Until now, this has never been the case with Upgrade products from Microsoft,
which leads to this conclusion: the recently discovered method of using upgrade media to
install Vista over itself is apparently a huge bug, which Microsoft never discovered until it
was pointed out to them. Something tells me that this hole will be filled rather quickly by
Microsoft.

At first, I believed it to be a "bug", also. However, I no longer believe
that. There is no way such a fundamental "flaw" could sneak its way
through. If that is the case, it says more about Microsoft's testing/quality
procedures than any anti-Microsoft troll could ever spew in these forums.


-Michael
 
Microsoft spent around 2 billions of US dollars to get it out the door and
on the shelves. How many other software developers spend so much money on a
product? Not many, I am sure.

NASA has spent trillions of taxpayer dollars in the shuttle program in
roughly the same time Microsoft has been under development and still
each time they have a launch, all their engineers cross their fingers
and hold their breath. Your point?

The flip side of your argument is Microsoft by far is the world's
largest software developer. They have many talented software
engineers. In spite of that, in 20 years time, Windows is still buggy,
they have the annoying habit of always being late, way late in the
case of releasing Vista, and still, again, what was dumped on the
public is far from stable and surely not ready. Vista still feels like
a beta, not a polished, ready to go product.
Additionally, Vista is the most tested of ALL Windows versions.

Not nearly tested enough or tested by people that know. Like me for
example. <wink> I listed just a few of the bugs, I could list many
more I've discovered already. That begs the question if Vista was so
extensively tested, (the same BS they said about XP), why do we see
the problems we're seeing, especially with the install process which
still remais, clumsy, cyptic and crude.
In the millions of lines of tight code which is the source for Vista, it is easy to
overlook a glaring hole from time to time.

Stop, stop, you're making me laugh! If there's millions of line of
code and I'm sure there is, then you surely can't describe it as being
tight code. It is another crazy quilt collection of half-baked poorly
tested, much of the code unknown to the software engineer sitting a
couple cubicles away from who wrote another section, so it DOES NOT
intergrate well. That's the Microsoft way. Bloatware. If they have 10
million lies of code and there's only a one percent error rate, that
means there is still thousands of unfound blunders. I guess that's
what Service Packs are for. said:
Especially when engineers are
under time constraints because of pressure from the bean-counters and high
mucka-mucks in the front office to get the product out the front door.

Stop being a Microsoft apologist, and buddy, that's all you sound
like. Vista has been "under development" for at least 5 years. If a
team of thousands of software engineers, some claimed to be the best
in the business can't develop a stable upgrade of a OS that's been
around in one form or another for 20 years in 5 years time, maybe they
should find some that can.
Something tells me that Microsoft's engineers spent MANY sleepless nights
writing code so we could have a decent product. Nights they should have
been spending with their wives and children.

You work for Microsoft?
Millions of citizens tested
Vista extensively before it was released to the General Public on Jan.30
this year. Yet NOONE found this hole in spite of all the testing. Only
when citizens started fiddling with their installs did it surface.

Again the issue is simple. You ask a million blind people to READ War
and Peace, then have these blind people WRITE a book report, the
results will be less than spectacular. I don't pretend to known how
Microsoft picks its beta testers, but obviously whatever process it
is, it needs improvement, lots and lots of improvement. Then maybe
they will be able to avoid these constant embarrassing blunders
EVERYTIME they release a new version of Windows.
Even with automated testing (as they do in their software labs), those test
suites can miss a hole once in a while. Especially logical holes. If code
is constructed correctly, and the logic is correct (but dead wrong), an
automated suite can easily miss something which would be rather glaringly
wrong to a human being.

"Shoulda, coulda, woulda" is easy to say from your quiet desk. It's a
little harder in the Lab.

Hint: People don't use Windows in a software lab environment. That is
part of the flawed testing system. A OS should be tested hard in the
real world, by real users BEFORE it is released. I know... they claim
to do just that. The results always prove otherwise because again, we
got a buggy release to deal with. I don't know about anybody else, but
if I ploop down $200 (Business upgrade) I don't expect to have to
invest endless hours of MY TIME finding bugs and fixes that are so
glaring they jump right out at you.
In conclusion, in NO WAY is Vista (the RTM) a "beta".

You entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. You're just
defending Microsoft. I backup what I said with real world examples.
Among the millions of users who will be switching to Vista soon, a few here and there will be
unsatisfied, simply because NOTHING can satisfy them. Microsoft could have
spent 20 billions of dollars on the product's development, could have made
the betas and release candidates available to 20 millions of users, could
have submitted the code to a bank of Cray super-computers for testing, and
those few would STILL be unsatisfied with the final product.

Again you make it clear you are nothing but a Microsoft apologist. I
hope you get paid well for being so.
If you don't like Vista, don't use it.No one is standing over you twisting
your arm. You are a free man, and can do what you please. I would never
try to stop this, nor would Microsoft, I feel sure.

That is the lamest excuse of all. You keep excusing sloppy coding. If
Windows was a new product maybe I would be more forgiving. It isn't.
Windows has been around for 20 years. It still at core level is
flawed. Seriously. That's like going to some car dealer over and over
and every few years buying a new vehicle and the wheels come off one
time, then the steering wheel another and the last time the brakes
failed to work.

Would you excuse such sloppy work?

Would you keep buying this same car?

Of course not! The point that Microsoft apologists like you never
seem to get is a huge number of Windows customers upgrade Windows
hoping the latest version fixes long term problems they had with their
current version. The main reason (include me) why we stick with
Windows (and Microsoft knows damn well it is true) is because of the
investment in time learning your current batch of Windows software and
of course the cost to replace it and go with another OS.
 
MICHAEL said:
At first, I believed it to be a "bug", also. However, I no longer believe
that. There is no way such a fundamental "flaw" could sneak its way
through. If that is the case, it says more about Microsoft's
testing/quality
procedures than any anti-Microsoft troll could ever spew in these forums.

Hopefully, you're right about this. But I tend to believe it was overlooked
in the Labs. Maybe they just assumed the customers would follow Microsoft's
canned procedure, and not play with it. Of course, in the Windows world,
such an assumption is dangerous.

Personally, I believe that Microsoft is much too paranoid about their OS
being ripped off, and should be considering the customer's needs, rather
than demanding that we do it "their way".

I'm all for the next service pack including code which allows us to remove
the install media from the DVD drive and replacing it with a valid copy of
XP to check the validity of a previous version. I would also not be against
hard-coding of the install media itself which would always be able to
validate the previous install disk.

I guess we'll see in the next few months.
Anyway, hopefully, those who upgraded their OSes this way won't have to
reinstall their OS the new way.

I avoided this possibility by purchasing a System Builder Kit for $135
rather than an Upgrade kit.
I will be receiving an Upgrade Kit from Dell in the next month or so, since
it was part of my purchase, so I will be able to check this new method out
for myself.
 
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