What card to prolong life of P3 800Mhz?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rasmus Paetau
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Rasmus Paetau

I have an old P3 800 mhz system with a Matrox G400. I haven't really needed
a proper 3D card and have been happy with the G400. Now I've been playing
Morrowind Elder scrolls III, and would as a result like to upgrade to a
graphics card with better 3D capabilities. I don't need top-of-the-line and
suspect it would be a waste unless I also upgraded the rest of my system.
Can anybody suggest a suitable card with a good 2D image quality and
preferably as little noise as possible? The mainboard is Abit BX-133 (BX440
chipset, AGP 2x).

Many thanks in advance,
Rasmus
 
Rasmus Paetau said:
I have an old P3 800 mhz system with a Matrox G400. I haven't really needed
a proper 3D card and have been happy with the G400. Now I've been playing
Morrowind Elder scrolls III, and would as a result like to upgrade to a
graphics card with better 3D capabilities. I don't need top-of-the-line and
suspect it would be a waste unless I also upgraded the rest of my system.
Can anybody suggest a suitable card with a good 2D image quality and
preferably as little noise as possible? The mainboard is Abit BX-133 (BX440
chipset, AGP 2x).
Click to expand...

A Radeon 8500 128Mb or a Geforce4 Ti4200 are good choices. Not available
new, but Ebay has an excellent inexpensive selection. These are both very
fast DX8.1 cards. I would avoid slow bottom feeder new products like the
9000/9200 series Radeons or the FX5200 series.
 
None considering games ogf June on will recommend 2Ghz+, 512 megs ram and at
least a 128 meg vid card.
 
RipFlex said:
None considering games ogf June on will recommend 2Ghz+, 512 megs ram and
at least a 128 meg vid card.
Click to expand...

You mean that the requirements for the one game that he is playing will
magically change overnight? Do tell.
 
None considering games ogf June on will recommend 2Ghz+,
512 megs ram and at least a 128 meg vid card.
Click to expand...

Nice gross generalisation there, especially as Gabe Newell was
quoted in PCZone's latest issue as indicating once you get over
1.2 ghz processor you won't see much improvement in Half Life 2
so long as you have 256mb ram & a DX9 card.

That's not to mention the hunderds of other games that will
require less than you reckon.
 
Morrowind needs a VERY fast graphic card, to be able to play smoothly!
I'd love to recommend "Morrowind fps optimizer" wonderful little tool!:
www.morrowind.nm.ru

REMEMBER: If you choose an ATI card (radeon8500 and higher) you will have
option to enable "TruForm" for Morrowind!! This DRAMATICALLY improves
lightning model indoor and object geometry. So faces, rocks, pottery, clifs
and the whole scenery looks MUCH smoother and lovely! See above link for
pics of Truform in action.

Nvidia based cards don't have TruForm!


Cheapest option is a Geforce3-ti500 (and only ti-500, no less!). IF you find
one CHEAP and used.
Gf4 ti-4200 or Radeon 8500/9000pro, 64mb or 128mb, don't matter much for
that game.

If you don't fancy used cards, then you can buy a Radeon 9600, 128mb, or a
Fx5500 128mb which cost some less and is bit slower.

STAY AWAY from Fx5200/5600XT/ Radeon9200SE/9200/9600SE cards. Fx5200ultra
and Radeon 9200pro are decent, but at that price, radeon9600 is much much
better choise.
 
REMEMBER: If you choose an ATI card (radeon8500 and higher)
you will have option to enable "TruForm" for Morrowind!!
This DRAMATICALLY improves lightning model indoor and
object geometry. So faces, rocks, pottery, clifs and the
whole scenery looks MUCH smoother and lovely! See above
link for pics of Truform in action.
Click to expand...
Only recommended if you have one the ATI cards that do it in
hardware, which is a limited number unless they reintroduced it.

My 9700Pro does not do it in hardware & it can be quite a
performance hit.
 
What? I could enable TruForm on my 8500LE and mobility 9000, with very
little 3-5fps hit im most games. However, depends MUCH on how TruForm is
implemented. My current overclocked 9600SE can do Truform with about 4-8fps
hit in general. Not bad at all, considering only 64bit mem width.
 
I had an 8500 in my old celeron 900 and it was a dog until I put it in an
xp1700 system, both systems had 512mb ram. So draw conclusions from that.

Mike
 
None considering games ogf June on will recommend 2Ghz+, 512 megs ram and at
least a 128 meg vid card.
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, running UNREAL2004 on a 600mhx P3 with my old radeon AIW
card (Had to try it since i added a new 9800 Pro to my 2.4 system and had the
AIW laying around) . Very playable so yes a 800mhz with a 8500 or so card
would be fine.
 
I had an 8500 in my old celeron 900 and it was a dog until
I put it in an xp1700 system, both systems had 512mb ram.
So draw conclusions from that.
Click to expand...

I draw the conclusion you had a piss poor processor,
irrespective of Mhz speed in the first instance. :)
 
What? I could enable TruForm on my 8500LE and mobility
9000, with very little 3-5fps hit im most games. However,
depends MUCH on how TruForm is implemented. My current
overclocked 9600SE can do Truform with about 4-8fps hit in
general. Not bad at all, considering only 64bit mem width.
Click to expand...

I believe the 8500 was one of the few cards that does it in
hardware, as for the rest I suppose it depends on willingness to
trade off view distance. As suggested by your use of the FPS
optimizer. I prefer to see as far as I can rather than limiting
my view to get a few more curves in.

It's a while since I used it but am I right in thinking you can
set the level of truform?
 
First thing: Morrowind does NOT, repeat NOT, natively support Truform. So
The reason i use fps optimizer is because it enables:
- To use Truform on *selected* object (about 50-70 i think, not every
thing).
- You can chose to have DOUBLE the normal view distance, when fps is above
specified range (25 in my setting)
- You can REDUCE view range, when fps is low (18 in my case)
- Auto adjust AI distance to match view distance.

So this optimizer is more than just a fps optimizer, it is an overhaul of
original game. As for Radeon8500, 8500Le/9100 are using the EXACT same core!
9000/9200/pro cards use core which is based on R250, so all those cards do
Truform i n realtime onchip! Same goes for m9, mobility9600pro and 9600(se).
I can't say about XT and Pro 9600, as never tried them.

If the card did not do truform on chip, the penality would be EXTREME!!!
Think that Truform increases poly count by atleast 8-12 times, compaired to
normal. So If it was emulated, So performance hit would be about 50%-100%
lower fps, not 4-5% in my case with 9600SE.
 
First thing: Morrowind does NOT, repeat NOT, natively
support Truform.
Click to expand...

Yes I know, try not to get too excited there ;-)

So this optimizer is more than just a fps optimizer, it is
an overhaul of original game.
Click to expand...

IMO it's a tweaker, but that doesn't really matter, I tried
it out but didn't see any benefit personally, which is not to
say it won't be of use to others.
As for Radeon8500,
8500Le/9100 are using the EXACT same core! 9000/9200/pro
cards use core which is based on R250, so all those cards
do Truform i n realtime onchip! Same goes for m9,
mobility9600pro and 9600(se). I can't say about XT and Pro
9600, as never tried them.
Click to expand...

Well assuming you are correct that would explain the fact you
don't see a massive hit in FPS & which is why I said you need
it to be done in hardware.
If the card did not do truform on chip, the penality would
be EXTREME!!! Think that Truform increases poly count by
atleast 8-12 times, compaired to normal. So If it was
emulated, So performance hit would be about 50%-100% lower
fps, not 4-5% in my case with 9600SE.
Click to expand...
Bingo - the 9700 series (of which I own a Pro) & I'm guessing
the 9800 series do not do this on chip, but at a software
level. I would also say it wasn't as extreme as you might
think, especially with MW's native performance, but it was
noticeable.
 
Piss poor coclusion because that generation of celeron was almost as fast as
the P3 (the cel900 was a bit faster than a P3 700 for gaming - this makes it
a good benchmark for the OP). It's the next generation that gave us the
shit celerons. You've proven your ignorance twice now...

Mike
 
Piss poor coclusion because that generation of celeron was
almost as fast as the P3 (the cel900 was a bit faster than
a P3 700 for gaming - this makes it a good benchmark for
the OP). It's the next generation that gave us the shit
celerons. You've proven your ignorance twice now...
Click to expand...

How did I prove it, in what you see, as the first time then?
Quoting the person most closely involved with the game I was
referring too?

Rebuffing a completley spurious argument that all games post May
this year will require such a high spec system?

And a Celeron 900 was nearly faster than a P3 700,
conclusinve proof it was a good processor. Of course you're
also ignoring things like, new mobo, Ram speeds, relative speeds
of AMD processors to Intel etc...

Try presenting logical arguments not spurious conclusions from
your single experience.
 
My point is that a celeron 900 is very close in performance to his, and the
board, sdram etc would be too. So he can see from my single experience,
which is very similar to what his will be, that the 8500 does not run
anywhere near it's capabilities in a system like his... which again, is very
similar to my old cel900. The fact that the 8500 took off in a faster
system shows that the old system was a huge bottleneck, and that it isn't
worth spending money on a fast card for it; the differences between AMD and
the celeron are irrelevant to my point, which is why I didn;t go into it.
My single experience provides direct comparison to the OP.

There is no need to go into the willful crippling of the later celerons
(which I think is what got you confused about the cel900), AMD architecture
vs Intel, etc, etc because it isn't relevant.

.... and the first time you showed ignorance was when you posted :

"...Nice gross generalisation there, especially as Gabe Newell was
quoted in PCZone's latest issue as indicating once you get over
1.2 ghz processor you won't see much improvement in Half Life 2
so long as you have 256mb ram & a DX9 card. "

In your own words,
"... Of course you're
also ignoring things like, new mobo, Ram speeds, relative speeds
of AMD processors to Intel etc... "
Click to expand...

the 1.2Ghz quote you posted is very rellevant to such things, whereas the
point I was making does not require getting into those details.

Mike
 
similar to my old cel900. The fact that the 8500 took off in a faster
system shows that the old system was a huge bottleneck, and that it isn't
worth spending money on a fast card for it;
Click to expand...

Yes, but the OP intended to *prolong the life of P3 800MHz*, so having a
radeon8500 or newer will only aid, not bog down the system from what it is
like now.
Besides.. I believe a 800MHz P3 with radeon8500 or 9600se (or any Radeon for
that matter) will perform better in Morrowind than a P3 800MHz with G400 or
so. As this is what OP wanted to know.
 
My point is that a celeron 900 is very close in performance
to his, and the board, sdram etc would be too. So he can
see from my single experience, which is very similar to
what his will be, My single experience provides direct > comparison
to the OP.
Click to expand...

But what relation did this bear to my original post? Just
imagine somebody newly posted to a newsgroup ' all games
coming out from next month will require a 2ghz processor, 1gb
ram & a 256mb graphics card'

See what I responed to now?
There is no need to go into the willful crippling of the
later celerons (which I think is what got you confused
about the cel900), AMD architecture vs Intel, etc, etc
because it isn't relevant.

... and the first time you showed ignorance was when you
posted :

"...Nice gross generalisation there, especially as Gabe
Newell was quoted in PCZone's latest issue as indicating
once you get over 1.2 ghz processor you won't see much
improvement in Half Life 2 so long as you have 256mb ram &
a DX9 card. "
Click to expand...

Hello put it back in the original context (outlined above) &
we see Gabes comments were if you have a specific system, not
if you upgrade from one system to a completley different one.
Let's carry on down shall we?

In your own words,
"... Of course you're

the 1.2Ghz quote you posted is very rellevant to such
things, whereas the
point I was making does not require getting into those
details.
Click to expand...

The point is tha it's not always/just the CPU that can be a
bottleneck in a system. It would be more relevant if you
could post experience of upgrading just the CPU in the same
base system.

And as Asestar has already pointed out just because it may
not run to it's full potential is not a reason to not upgrade
your card. I did this with the original Geforce as it would
improve the performance slightly over my current card.
Although I acknowledge I was also planning a more thorough
upgrade shrotly.
You nicely ignored this point didn't you?

It seems you're not 100% au fait about the use of snipping
within usenet, if you reread my post you'll see I completley
snipped the OP posters text. My point re Gabes quote was a
reply to somebody saying 2ghz 512mb ram etc... was what all
games post May would require.

There is no logic that even fits this as being a response to
the OP request for advice on a card that would prolong the
life of his 800Mhz processor.

You're posting of your experience, regardless of the crippled
processor & all Celerons were crippled to a greater or lesser
degree, is irrelevant to my original post. Try posting to the
the correct post and don't tack it on to one that has little
bearing on the original, it'll save confusion..

And before you say something about the title I did not change
it as it annoys a lot of people.
 
I have an old P3 800 mhz system with a Matrox G400. I haven't really needed
a proper 3D card and have been happy with the G400. Now I've been playing
Morrowind Elder scrolls III, and would as a result like to upgrade to a
graphics card with better 3D capabilities. I don't need top-of-the-line and
suspect it would be a waste unless I also upgraded the rest of my system.
Can anybody suggest a suitable card with a good 2D image quality and
preferably as little noise as possible? The mainboard is Abit BX-133 (BX440
chipset, AGP 2x).
Click to expand...

A P3-800 (my previous PC from 18 months ago = P3-866) will not PUSH a
GF3 or ATI8500 beyond its limts....

So a GF5200-Ultra or an ATI 9000Pro or 9200Pro (9000 is slightly
better, the 9200 is smaller) will work fine... But they will still be
waiting for more data on your end. Those cards should not cost more
than $80.
 
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