Western Digital drives and RAID - WARNING

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jim Garrison
  • Start date Start date
J

Jim Garrison

I purchased an Adaptec 1420SA RAID0/1 card (SATA2) and a pair of
WD1600JS drives (also SATA2). After many problems I have found out
that the JS series drives are INCOMPATIBLE with RAID in general,
due to the lack of a feature called TLER (Time Limited Error Recovery).

The symptom is that the drive "drops out" or disappears from the
RAID controller's view, usually on a reboot. The incompatibility
has been confirmed by Western Digital.

IMHO, the fact that JS drives are not RAID compatible should be
prominently displayed on WDC's product page, but this information
is nowhere to be found. Since I bought the drives based on the
specs on WDC's product page, I feel they have some responsibility
to inform me about a product's limitations. WDC first-level support
said there was nothing they could do, so I'm now waiting for a call
back from a Customer Relations person.

To anyone considering WDC and RAID, be very careful what you buy
and don't assume RAID compatibility.
 
I would have researched this more carefully! Hard drive manufacturers make
several different models and some are RAID ready while other are not. RAID
is not a "standard" hard drive configuration yet.
 
I would have researched this more carefully! Hard drive manufacturers make
several different models and some are RAID ready while other are not. RAID
is not a "standard" hard drive configuration yet.
Click to expand...

Research is not generally needed, non-SCSI RAID has in fact
been a pretty common feature for a decade. More likely
these SATA2 drives are still in their infancy, beta stage
but unfortunately put out to market.
 
kony said:
Research is not generally needed, non-SCSI RAID has in fact
been a pretty common feature for a decade. More likely
these SATA2 drives are still in their infancy, beta stage
but unfortunately put out to market.
Click to expand...

Yep! Keep buying that SATA crap and keep loosing data due to catastrophic
failure. SATA is ideal for gaming and other novelty systems, but fails
miserable in mission critical applications.


Rita
 
If I might say I think that is a little unfair.
I use raid, sil controler, there is no mention on my hd manu site about
compatibility issues. Indeed the TLER seems to be a WD specific
implimentation, acording to the TLER info sheet
There is nothing on the specs of WD sata drives to indicate any
compatibility issues, this only becomes evident by reading the TLER data
spec. pdf.
Perhaps there is an underlying problem with WD drives and 'modern'
controlers?
I am aware that some Adaptec controller cards can have compatibility probs
with certain mobos/bios

In the UK the drives could be returned to WD/Supplier as 'not fit for the
purpose' for a full refund, under consumer Laws.
 
Update: I spoke to a very nice gentleman in Customer Relations,
who immediately saw my point about the missing data on the web
page and agreed to swap the drives for the same capacity of a
different model that DOES support TLER. I'm glad to see that
WDC has a customer-focused approach. He also said he'd make sure
the web page was updated to more clearly indicate the compatibility
issues.
 
Yves Leclerc said:
I would have researched this more carefully!
Click to expand...

Shouldnt need to if the WD site specified the limitations properly.
Hard drive manufacturers make several different models and some are RAID ready
while other are not.
Click to expand...

Then WD should have said that on their web site.
RAID is not a "standard" hard drive configuration yet.
Click to expand...

Irrelevant, its common enough that WD should have said
which drives of theirs are viable with RAID and which are not.
 
That's good to know. All companies screw up now and then -- how they handle
it is important.
 
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Jim Garrison said:
I purchased an Adaptec 1420SA RAID0/1 card (SATA2) and a pair of
WD1600JS drives (also SATA2). After many problems I have found out
that the JS series drives are INCOMPATIBLE with RAID in general,
due to the lack of a feature called TLER (Time Limited Error Recovery).
Click to expand...

TLER is overrated. If you have enough errors that TLER would
have an effect, it is too late anyways. For example Linux
software RAID rightfully kicks a drive from an array after the
first unrecoverd error, TLER does not help at all here. I suspect
many (most?) RAID controllers do the same.

IMO TLER is just scheme to get more money from the customer by
a small firmware change that does not cost anything.

It might of course be that WD drives are so error-prone without
TLER that they get kicked by controllers all the time. No such
problems with Seagate or Maxtor.

Arno
 
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage DL said:
If I might say I think that is a little unfair.
I use raid, sil controler, there is no mention on my hd manu site about
compatibility issues. Indeed the TLER seems to be a WD specific
implimentation, acording to the TLER info sheet
There is nothing on the specs of WD sata drives to indicate any
compatibility issues, this only becomes evident by reading the TLER data
spec. pdf.
Perhaps there is an underlying problem with WD drives and 'modern'
controlers?
Click to expand...

That is my suspicion. Also TLER will fail to correct errors, normal
drives will correct so a TLER drive will get kicked from an array far
sooner due to unrecoverd errors than a normal drive. The TLER
explanation sounds bogus to me, unless WD drives have a special
weakness here, maybe taking forever and then still failing to
read.

Arno
 
kony said:
Research is not generally needed, non-SCSI RAID has in fact
been a pretty common feature for a decade. More likely
these SATA2 drives are still in their infancy, beta stage
but unfortunately put out to market.
Click to expand...

Exactly what kind of disks were running in a RAID configuration a decade ago
under windows?
 
Exactly what kind of disks were running in a RAID configuration a decade ago
under windows?
Click to expand...

LOL, I can't even remeber the drives in my current arrays
and you want me to remember makes and models from 10 years
ago? Honestly I can't remember if it was 10 years, 11, or
8... whatever, it's certain been several years. Since I
don't remember a guess would be ~ 1-2GB ATA33, maybe WD or
Seagate or Connor or ...
 
Update: I spoke to a very nice gentleman in Customer Relations,
who immediately saw my point about the missing data on the web
page and agreed to swap the drives for the same capacity of a
different model that DOES support TLER. I'm glad to see that
WDC has a customer-focused approach. He also said he'd make sure
the web page was updated to more clearly indicate the compatibility
issues.
Click to expand...

Jim,

Not surprising. I have found WD to be very helpful and accommodating. They
have always given me the benefit of the doubt on borderline issues.
 
I have been using their WD2500JB drives in a raid 5 array for some time now.
I got a bit worried about the array after WD released the 2500 RAID series
drives, but I have not had any problems with the drives I am using. This
issue has been known about for at least a year I would say (they have an
official white paper on it somewhere) apparently it isn't as big of a
problem as one might think.

--Dan
 
D.Currie said:
That's good to know. All companies screw up now and then -- how they
handle it is important.
Click to expand...

That is one reason I like WD. I have used their drives for a long time and
their customer service has been excellent. I had a WD drive begin to stall
on boot for a up to 30 seconds and ghosted the drive to another and called
WD and after running some diagnostics they said they would have a new drive
to me the next day and I could just put the old drive in the box for return.
I had the replacement by noon the next day. I did have to pay for the
overnight shipping (12-15 $ IIRC) but this was a critical system and was
well worth it.

Ed
 
Ed Medlin said:
That is one reason I like WD. I have used their drives for a long time and
their customer service has been excellent. I had a WD drive begin to stall
on boot for a up to 30 seconds and ghosted the drive to another and called
WD and after running some diagnostics they said they would have a new
drive to me the next day and I could just put the old drive in the box for
return. I had the replacement by noon the next day. I did have to pay for
the overnight shipping (12-15 $ IIRC) but this was a critical system and
was well worth it.

Ed
Click to expand...

Of all the hardware product categories, the hard drive manufacturers seem to
be the best and easiest to deal with. I don't mind dealing with RMAs on hard
drives. Other things, I'd rather get my teeth drilled.
 
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