Well-Read Lurker Seeks Feedback

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Ron

Well, having arrived yesterday from [microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware],
I've read pretty well every single post relating to A7N8X...which is the
mobo I bought on Wednesday. I'm in no hurry to hook it up, (indeed I don't
have a 3000+ or RAM yet) but while the new money is drying, I thought I'd
learn a bit here.

I'm no stranger to PC building/troubleshooting etc. And o/c-ing, while not
my cup of java, is also no real mystery to me. But I find the dearth of
"normal" info on this NG to be a bit daunting!

It is my hope AND my expectation that, when I get the rest of the parts...I
will be able to power up this new box and begin playing almost immediately.
But if I pretend that I'm a relative newcomer to PC's...and have come here
to get some pointers about my new mobo...I'm apprehensive to say the least!

OK...many people choose to push the envelope. Fine. And there's endless
discussion about the fine points. Again - fine. But where are the non
o/c-ers? Won't someone please assure me that this board will run, and play
nice with stock settings? It will have a gig of PC3200, a Barton 3000+, a
Radeon 9200, a single SATA drive and a combo drive of some sort. And I
intend to migrate my Volcano 7, as well as install a decent 80mm fan in each
of the five (2, 2, and 1) locations.

So. Will this patient ever walk,doctor?! (Or will we need to adjust nearly
every nerve in his system?!!)

TIA.
Ron
 
I think you've made a fine choice of componentry. You did, however, neglect
to give us the make and model numbers of the memory and don't forget to
publish the entire Barton serial number once it's arrived. We also don't
understand your selection of the 9200 over a newer model (we assume you're
budget has limits). We also hope you have adequate power supply (>=400W!).

I was at the emergency room today with my significant other who happened to
fracture her foot. While I was there I saw a lot of sick people. It seems
that the folks that are feeling fine tend to be elsewhere.

Looking at these newsgroups you'd think that virtually every asus mobo that
comes off the assembly line is crap and refuses to run without tender loving
coaxing, the kind that only comes from attaining *ivory tower* info from all
the schmucks that have already 'been there, done that, broke it, fixed by
doing xyz'. Chances are you'll put all those parts together and boot up and
be real pleased with your system and yourself. You're doing the right thing,
perusing this ng. You'll get a good idea of what *could* go amiss. Most of
the problems are human error just like any other computer problem. So,

Don't forget to RTFM.

Asus has a great rep for o/cing and yes, it's an addictive sort of thing. I
prefer to call it a hobby. I completely love that I can get a low buck cpu
and clock it up to speeds that would cost twice as much. Of course these
days it's all by design and frankly some of the fun of getting of getting
over on Intel by buying AMD for half the cost of their chip and squeezing
loads of speed out of it is waning, particularly since it's not as visibly
perceivable as it used to be.

I just like to know that I'm getting the best performance I can with the
pieces I've picked. Not to mention the volumes of *ivory tower* info I pick
up along the way.

Good luck. You'll have to post a success story when you're done.

HTH


Ron said:
Well, having arrived yesterday from [microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware],
I've read pretty well every single post relating to A7N8X...which is the
mobo I bought on Wednesday. I'm in no hurry to hook it up, (indeed I don't
have a 3000+ or RAM yet) but while the new money is drying, I thought I'd
learn a bit here.

I'm no stranger to PC building/troubleshooting etc. And o/c-ing, while not
my cup of java, is also no real mystery to me. But I find the dearth of
"normal" info on this NG to be a bit daunting!

It is my hope AND my expectation that, when I get the rest of the parts...I
will be able to power up this new box and begin playing almost immediately.
But if I pretend that I'm a relative newcomer to PC's...and have come here
to get some pointers about my new mobo...I'm apprehensive to say the least!

OK...many people choose to push the envelope. Fine. And there's endless
discussion about the fine points. Again - fine. But where are the non
o/c-ers? Won't someone please assure me that this board will run, and play
nice with stock settings? It will have a gig of PC3200, a Barton 3000+, a
Radeon 9200, a single SATA drive and a combo drive of some sort. And I
intend to migrate my Volcano 7, as well as install a decent 80mm fan in each
of the five (2, 2, and 1) locations.

So. Will this patient ever walk,doctor?! (Or will we need to adjust nearly
every nerve in his system?!!)

TIA.
Ron
Click to expand...
 
Well, having arrived yesterday from [microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware],
I've read pretty well every single post relating to A7N8X...which is the
mobo I bought on Wednesday. I'm in no hurry to hook it up, (indeed I don't
have a 3000+ or RAM yet) but while the new money is drying, I thought I'd
learn a bit here.

I'm no stranger to PC building/troubleshooting etc. And o/c-ing, while not
my cup of java, is also no real mystery to me. But I find the dearth of
"normal" info on this NG to be a bit daunting!

It is my hope AND my expectation that, when I get the rest of the parts...I
will be able to power up this new box and begin playing almost immediately.
But if I pretend that I'm a relative newcomer to PC's...and have come here
to get some pointers about my new mobo...I'm apprehensive to say the least!

OK...many people choose to push the envelope. Fine. And there's endless
discussion about the fine points. Again - fine. But where are the non
o/c-ers? Won't someone please assure me that this board will run, and play
nice with stock settings? It will have a gig of PC3200, a Barton 3000+, a
Radeon 9200, a single SATA drive and a combo drive of some sort. And I
intend to migrate my Volcano 7, as well as install a decent 80mm fan in each
of the five (2, 2, and 1) locations.

So. Will this patient ever walk,doctor?! (Or will we need to adjust nearly
every nerve in his system?!!)

TIA.
Ron
Click to expand...
It will walk. It probably will sprint. But it's also going to roar.
If you invest in a great cooler like the Zalman CNPS6000, it will make
no noise, it will keep your CPU practically frigid, and it will make
it UNnecessary to install FIVE case fans besides the fans in the PSU.
I'd suggest getting a great silent CPU cooler and one or two case
fans. Then if you think the system is overheating, add very silent
case fans one at a time.
Ron
 
never had any problems with my own A7N8X dlx. keep in mind that you
only read about the problems here, the majority with a well running
system generally don't leave posts to sing the praises...
 
Many thanks, Mike & Ron. Fine and thoughtful words from each of you.

Hmm. Yeah, the fans. Currently I have a mid tower with 4 x 5¼" and 2 x 3½"
bays. There's a burner at the top, a CD-ROM next, then RAID drive #1
mounted with spacer bars...then RAID drive #2 (again with bars). Then the
floppy, then a backup HDD. And for a few months, I had a fourth HDD sitting
in the bottom of the tower! But it's gone now.

Anyway, since the RAID drives are 7200's, and since they are shoe-horned in
there like Pam's implants, and since there are no fan cages at the front of
this box...I figured I'd better provide some additional [dedicated] cooling
for the RAID drives. So the two RAIDed drives each have a twin-fan aluminum
cooler mounted directly onto the underside of them, and there's an 80mm
exhaust fan at the rear of the tower. The XP 1700+ runs at around 47º, and
case temp is 31º.

The new box is a 10-bay Antec, with 2 fan cages in front, 2 in rear, and one
on the panel. I've already installed a twin-fan 450W PSU (Real PC Power),
and the A7N8X is in too. I expect to be using the aforementioned h/w in the
new case for awhile, 'til the money's dry enough to go get a Barton and some
RAM. And I figured that I'd remove the aluminum coolers from the RAID
drives when I migrate them over. Which brings us back to the fan question.

I found a 4 fan controller that can be programmed by the user, rather than
simply offering 4 rheostats. When the circuitry senses a temp increase, it
will automatically activate one fan at a time until the temp is improved. I
like this a LOT. And a lot better than thermo fans, which could be set to
who-knows-what temp maximum?! Those things might think that a case temp of
32º is too hot, and run full speed all the time! Screw that!

The vidcard? Yup. $$. Here in Botswana, there is not a lot of choice, so
when I saw a Radeon 9200 for only $415 USD, I grabbed it.



OK, I'm kidding. It was the best card I could afford. And I'm using it now
on the old machine, with dual monitors. Very nice.

BTW - you indicated that I should publish the entire Barton S/N when I bring
it home. I'm intrigued. Why do you say that?

Regards,
Ron
 
Ron said:
The vidcard? Yup. $$. Here in Botswana, there is not a lot of
choice, so when I saw a Radeon 9200 for only $415 USD, I grabbed it.
Click to expand...

I didn't know Botswana was anywhere near TO.
BTW - you indicated that I should publish the entire Barton S/N when
I bring it home. I'm intrigued. Why do you say that?
Click to expand...

Knowing those numbers, all of them, can give an idea of how far the CPU can
be overclocked.
 
oops. I now realize my mistake; the 3000+ runs at 333 MHz. In order to
realize 400 MHz from the CPU, it has to be a 3200+. (With no o/c). Do I
have it right now?

<sheepishly>
Ron
 
Ron,
The PCxxxx indicates the memory throughput. So if you have memory rated at
PC3200 this means that 3200 MB/s can be transferred through the module. When
you see it expressed in the terms of FSB, you will see it as DDR400. The actual
clocking frequency is 200MHz. Because DDR memory can transfer on both the
rising and falling edge of the clock signal, you end of with an effective clock
speed of 400MHz. To tie both terms together, since the DDR modules are 64 bits
wide (8 bytes) and you transfer all 8 bytes at the same time, you end up with
the 3200 value (400*8).

Currently the AMD product line is using a 333MHz FSB speed, but the Intel
products have advanced to higher FSB speeds. The motherboard chipsets are
capable of handling the disparity between the CPU FSB and the memory FSB, but
your effective throughput will be limited by the slower of the two ( my mobo
uses a 266MHz CPU and 333MHz memory FSB, I cannot get memory throughput any
faster than PC2100 memory would allow even though I have PC2700 and am clocking
it at this speed).

Hope that helps a little
Paul
 
Ron,
The PCxxxx indicates the memory throughput. So if you have memory ratedat
PC3200 this means that 3200 MB/s can be transferred through the module. When
you see it expressed in the terms of FSB, you will see it as DDR400. The actual
clocking frequency is 200MHz. Because DDR memory can transfer on both the
rising and falling edge of the clock signal, you end of with an effective clock
speed of 400MHz. To tie both terms together, since the DDR modules are 64 bits
wide (8 bytes) and you transfer all 8 bytes at the same time, you end upwith
the 3200 value (400*8).
Click to expand...

Sheesh! I always wondered how thos two linked together! I think I'd
always thought of some of them as plucked out of the sky.

I couldn't get an XP3000 at 400mhz cos they've scarcely (if at all) hit
the UK yet - Dabs just says "long lead time". But, knowing less than I
know now, I did still get the 3200/400mhz memory.

Running the FSB at 333mhz and the RAM at 400mhz (according to the BIOS)
*looked* fine, booted up fine - but my machine was crashing all over the
place. I set the BIOS to 'Auto' ("For fastest performance" - natch)
which resulted in the RAM now running at 333mhz (according to the POST
screen), but it's completely stable.

Caroline

Currently the AMD product line is using a 333MHz FSB speed, but the Intel
products have advanced to higher FSB speeds. The motherboard chipsets are
capable of handling the disparity between the CPU FSB and the memory FSB, but
your effective throughput will be limited by the slower of the two ( my mobo
uses a 266MHz CPU and 333MHz memory FSB, I cannot get memory throughput any
faster than PC2100 memory would allow even though I have PC2700 and am clocking
it at this speed).

Hope that helps a little
Paul
Click to expand...

Caroline Picking, (e-mail address removed)
Milton Keynes, England.
 
oops. I now realize my mistake; the 3000+ runs at 333 MHz. In order to
realize 400 MHz from the CPU, it has to be a 3200+. (With no o/c). Do I
have it right now?

<sheepishly>
Ron
Click to expand...

All AMD XP/Bartons are multiplier unlocked. This means that with your
mobo you can lower the multiplier and raise the FSB, it's simple math.
(SDR) FSB x Multiplier = CPU MHz

Barton XP 2500+ - 1833 (166x11.0)
Barton XP 2600+ - 1917 (166x11.5)
Barton XP 2800+ - 2083 (166x12.5)
Barton XP 3000+ - 2167 (166x13.0)
Barton XP 3000+ - 2100 (200x10.5)
Barton XP 3200+ - 2200 (200x11.0)

PCxxxx - DDR / MHz
PC1600 - 200 / 100
PC2100 - 266 / 133
PC2400 - 300 / 150
PC2700 - 333 / 166
PC3000 - 366 / 183
PC3200 - 400 / 200
PC3500 - 433 / 216
PC3700 - 466 / 233

The best way to set up these boards is to have FSB and Memory in Sync.
Set RAM to 100% and ram timings manually to their rated spec.

I have a 2800+ 333FSB 1.65v CPU, it runs perfect as a 3200+ (200x11)
with only a slight bump in vcore (1.675v), with 1.725v I can run it at
200x11.5 or 210x11, no problems.

btw, using an Aeroflow HS/fan, 3-80mm thermal case fans in a full tower
Antec 400w case.

Best of luck!
Ed
AMD Info Links
http://tinyurl.com/cu77
 
Ron said:
Well, having arrived yesterday from
[microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware], I've read pretty well every
single post relating to A7N8X...which is the mobo I bought on
Wednesday. I'm in no hurry to hook it up, (indeed I don't have a
3000+ or RAM yet) but while the new money is drying, I thought I'd
learn a bit here.
Click to expand...

Is that the Deluxe or not?
I'm no stranger to PC building/troubleshooting etc. And o/c-ing,
while not my cup of java, is also no real mystery to me. But I find
the dearth of "normal" info on this NG to be a bit daunting!
Click to expand...

Indeed it can be.
It is my hope AND my expectation that, when I get the rest of the
parts...I will be able to power up this new box and begin playing
almost immediately. But if I pretend that I'm a relative newcomer to
PC's...and have come here to get some pointers about my new
mobo...I'm apprehensive to say the least!
Click to expand...

I doubt you'll have any major problems - I set one up, plugged everything
together flicked the switch and it all worked.
OK...many people choose to push the envelope. Fine. And there's
endless discussion about the fine points. Again - fine. But where
are the non o/c-ers? Won't someone please assure me that this board
will run, and play nice with stock settings? It will have a gig of
PC3200, a Barton 3000+, a Radeon 9200, a single SATA drive and a
combo drive of some sort. And I intend to migrate my Volcano 7, as
well as install a decent 80mm fan in each of the five (2, 2, and 1)
locations.
Click to expand...


You'll be fine :-)

I need to add a few things that may or may not have already been stated.

This chipset (nForce2) likes to have FSB and RAM at the same speed, 200MHz
DDR being the fastest thats supported.

All Bartons are unlocked, so you are free to choose a FSB and a multiplier
that work well. Typically this is up to and even beyond 2.2GHz for all
Bartons. My preferred setting is therefore 200MHz * 11 for any Barton core.
(Due to a technicality if you wish to change multiplier from 13 or above to
12.5 or below, or vice-versa, you cannot do that with this board - this
occasionally catches people out if they try to run a slower FSB, requiring a
higher multiplier, than stock)

The CPU serial numbers tell what core it is, when it was made, stuff like
that. Generally the newer the better - they tend to tweak the process to
increase yield, this increases quality generally.

Volcano 7 or 7+? The Bartons, especially the faster clocked ones do need a
very good cooler, so be prepared to replace it. The Aero7 is pretty well
respected as one of the best, speed controlled too - not cheap though.

RAM, basically take the clock speed in MHz, multiply by 8 (bits per
transfer) and 2 (transfers per clock - DDR), then round it to the nearest
100 and you have your PCxxxx number.

PC3500 is "433MHz" or in real life 216MHz DDR.
PC3700 is "466MHz" or 233MHz for those of us not in some insane marketing
dept., who seem to always get it wrong due to a lack of technical
understanding. I digress... :-)

Incidentally, the FSB is also DDR, so there are not any 400MHz Bartons, they
are 200MHz DDR.

Now, it's always worth getting quality RAM, especially with this board. If
you want to run at 200MHz (and I recommend you do) then something like
Corsair XMS3200C2 will do you. Thats very well specced RAM. The LL stuff
is even faster and likely to be able to reach around 220MHz with a CAS
Latency of 2. Mushkin, OCZ, Twinmos (with Winbond CH-5) and Crucial
(Micron) should all do you as well.

To take advantage of Dual Channel, you will need 2 memory modules. For
maximum effect you may as well keep them the same. Dual Channel kits are
basically just a matched pair and are NOT worth paying extra for.

What else...

SATA - booting from SATA should cause you no problems, just select boot from
SCSI in the BIOS and make sure the appropriate partition is active when you
fdisk it all up.

Radeon 9200 - I presume you are not going to be using the machine for the
latest games? The card is probable one of the best choices for a decent 2d
cheaper card, I doubt you'll have any complaints.

Temperatures... If your case temp is more than about 10°C above your room,
it's probably too hot. If the CPU under full load is more than 15°C above
case temp, it's probably too hot. On an average day thats around 25°C +
10°C + 15°C = 50°C. The chips are rated to something like 85°C so no real
need to panic until you're approaching that sort of figure. However, if you
do, then the board will switch itself off. This is usually as a result of
installing the heatsink the wrong way round - you'll get 5-10 seconds before
the motherboard powers down in this case.

I think thats it for now.

Brain dump over. :-)

Ben
 
Additional gratitude to Ben and Paul. (I'm learning a lot!)

It seems that I made a small (but significant) error in my earlier posts; I
thought that there was no such thing as a 3000+/400, but there is.
(Thankfully). So I'm on a waiting list for notification as to when I can
procure same. (It's reasonably priced. USD270, as opposed to well over 400
for the 3200+)

Meanwhile, I'm on the prowl for RAM.

Regards,
Ron
 
Ron said:
Additional gratitude to Ben and Paul. (I'm learning a lot!)

It seems that I made a small (but significant) error in my earlier
posts; I thought that there was no such thing as a 3000+/400, but
there is. (Thankfully). So I'm on a waiting list for notification as
to when I can procure same. (It's reasonably priced. USD270, as
opposed to well over 400 for the 3200+)
Click to expand...

Get the 2500 and run it 11 * 200MHz.

Ben
 
So. It appears that only RAM modules with the 'PC3200' rating or
higher are capable of running at 400 MHz. But wait! Now there's
PC3500! And today I saw a reference to PC3700! Egad!
Click to expand...

Ron, Hopefully you are sitting down...

I just saw PC4000 memory listed on pricewatch.com

We are not worthy!

Adam.
 
Ron, Hopefully you are sitting down...

I just saw PC4000 memory listed on pricewatch.com

We are not worthy!

Adam.
Click to expand...


The ram is not worthy either. ;p
Corsair TWINX1024-4000 1GB DDR500 XMS4000 Dual-Channel
Tested at JEDEC-standard latency settings (3-4-4-8) for optimal memory
bus speed Optimum Canterwood performance achieved at high bus speed and
relaxed latency Test voltage: 2.75V

3-4-4-8? No thanks
 
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