Web question

  • Thread starter Thread starter Woody Splawn
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Woody Splawn

If this is not the right newsgroup for this question please direct me.

I have been using VB.net for stand alone and client/server kinds of things
but am beginning to explore its use for web applications. I need to ask a
couple of real basic questions.

My understanding is that if you are going to write an application for the
web using VS.net you need to have a web server. I suppose what is meant by
this is that you need to have a seperate machine (PC) connected to the web
who's sole purpose is to get and send data relative to your applicaiton.
Sort of a referee. I suppose this is where your database would reside if,
for example, you have a web app that provides data to or retreives data from
a user.

I will start with a real basic question. If I wanted to create a web
application that did not involve the exchange of data to a database would I
still need a seperate machine? I ask this question because, for example, I
have a web site right now that was created with FrontPage 2000. It does not
get any information from the user. I mean it stores no data in a database.
It just provide information about certain services I offer. Just wondering
if I could recreate this rather simple application using VB.net without
having to buy a seperate machine to act as a web server. I am thinking
that if I can, perhaps this would allow me to at least get into the game and
allow me to have one tool for creating my simply web app instead of VS and
FrontPage.

Anyone?

P.S. My service provider provides what are called FrontPage extensions and
all I do is create the app in FrontPage and then transfer it to their
server. Is there something similar to this I can do with VS. Would I be
able to do this, for example, if the ISP had the network framework on their
machine?
 
newsgroup: microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet

you don't need another machine (depending on the OS you are running)
just install IIS on your machine
and if you need a database, also just install that on your machine
 
Hi Woody,

Totaly wrong group, so let me answer it. :-))
All answers between the lines
I have been using VB.net for stand alone and client/server kinds of things
but am beginning to explore its use for web applications. I need to ask a
couple of real basic questions.

My understanding is that if you are going to write an application for the
web using VS.net you need to have a web server. I suppose what is meant by
this is that you need to have a seperate machine (PC) connected to the web
who's sole purpose is to get and send data relative to your applicaiton.
Sort of a referee. I suppose this is where your database would reside if,
for example, you have a web app that provides data to or retreives data from
a user.
Click to expand...

Yes you need to have a webserver and that needs to be connected to the
Internet. And direct with a good firewall between it. And than if you have
to buy it direct Server 2003 because that has IIS6 and ASP.net standard.

The database can be on the same computer, is the most easiest but not
necassery.
I will start with a real basic question. If I wanted to create a web
application that did not involve the exchange of data to a database would I
still need a seperate machine? I ask this question because, for example, I
have a web site right now that was created with FrontPage 2000. It does not
get any information from the user. I mean it stores no data in a
Click to expand...
database.

I certainly would advice that a website needs to be 24 hours 7 days
reachable by the users, otherwise the tell that it is for ever down. And
stop using it. When you using a computer with other purposes than gives a
restart even trouble on the Internet.
It just provide information about certain services I offer. Just wondering
if I could recreate this rather simple application using VB.net without
having to buy a seperate machine to act as a web server. I am thinking
that if I can, perhaps this would allow me to at least get into the game and
allow me to have one tool for creating my simply web app instead of VS and
FrontPage.
Click to expand...

If you now have running a website on your own webserver in house with
Frontpage you can use the same server, for aspnet you have to install the
Net framework if it is not Server 2003. And I would certainly not start with
buying a new one, only that firewall that you need is something you need
forever with Internet.
P.S. My service provider provides what are called FrontPage extensions and
all I do is create the app in FrontPage and then transfer it to their
server. Is there something similar to this I can do with VS. Would I be
able to do this, for example, if the ISP had the network framework on their
machine?
Click to expand...

No this is different because he has not the database. And mostly it gives a
lot of trouble, probably he has a special version of frontpage (there are
small versions) that does not fit and he needs to have the framework on the
server.

But it is possible, to do to keep low cost connections to make special pages
for database that you redirect to your own server and the let say more
static webpages keeping with your provider. But for that you need to be
expirienced.

However you need (in a simpel situation) your own server and Internet
connection and again the firewall.

But my first advice is that if you have a XP pro or 2000 pro.

Try it first and use for that the VB recource kit

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/vbrkit/default.aspx

And if you have problems installing it

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/vbrkit/faq/#installvdir

And try the websamples (necassery is that IIS is installed).

Some samples have problems because the ' is a wrong character and gives
errors.

I hope this helps,

Cor
 
First off, here is a better place for this question:
microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet

But I will try to get you started here....

A web server is a machine that is running web server software. In a
Microsoft world, that means Internet Information Server (IIS), which is part
of Windows XP Professional Edition but not included with XP Home Edition.

This web server can have other functions as well. It could also be a
database server (where the actual database resides), it could be a file
server, an FTP server, a mail server and so on. Or, it could just be a
dedicated web server.

When you develop your FrontPage web pages on your machine, you are not
required to have a web server installed on your machine or even one that you
can connect to on a different machine. FrontPage essentially allows you to
create "Disk Based" (no web server) or "Server Based" (with web server)
webs. It sounds like you've been building disk based webs. Those FrontPage
Server Extensions you mentioned allow FrontPage to give you features that
normally require server programming without you having to do the work. If
you want to take advantage of the features that the server extensions
provide, then you are required to have a web server. If you don't have a
web server, then you can still use FP, but not those features.

Now to VS.NET and ASP.NET....

ASP.NET is all about web server-side programming, period! You WILL NEED a
web server in order to even get started in ASP.NET. VS.NET will ask you
what web server you wish to place your "project" on before you even begin.

If all you are doing is providing "static" (pages that don't change) content
via .htm files on your web site, stick with FrontPage. If you need to get
into things that .htm files (client side) can't do (database programming),
then you need to move up to a server side programming platform (ASP.NET).

HTH
 
HTH

It does help - a lot.

Quesiton:

If I have a machine to act as a web server, how fast does it need to be? I
have a PIII 750 that I might be able to use. It would be used for testing
purposes. Nothing real fancy at first. Would it be fast enough and would it
work if it had Windows XP Pro on it or do I need some other special web
server software?

Would this be sufficient to get me started or do I need something with a lot
of horse power right up front?
 
This is fine to do local development and testing. As I stated earlier, XP
Pro. comes with Internet Information Server (IIS), so you would not need any
additional software (beyond the Visual Studio.NET that is).
 
Yes you need to have a webserver and that needs to be connected to the
Internet. And direct with a good firewall between it. And than if you have
to buy it direct Server 2003 because that has IIS6 and ASP.net standard.
Click to expand...

You don't technically need to have an Internet connection to build and test
a site locally. :)
You also don't need to buy a server product. XP Pro. will do fine (again
for local testing).
No this is different because he has not the database. And mostly it gives a
lot of trouble, probably he has a special version of frontpage (there are
small versions) that does not fit and he needs to have the framework on the
server.
Click to expand...

Uhm yes. The process of working locally and then publishing the files to
the live host is certainly supported in .NET (that's how I work with my
site). Also, most host provide database support either by allowing you to
upload your own client database (like Access) or by providing MySQL or SQL
Server support, so database connectivity is not a problem.

There are not "special" or "small" versions of FrontPage. There are
different versions of the server extensions.
 
Woody,

Just my 2cents worth....

It seems to be less of a headache to run IIS on the same machine as you
develop on, but your SQL Server can easily be on another networked machine
and is recommended since SQL Server eats up some processor time with its
services and does use memory. MSDE is free if you need it.

Once you get the app ready, get an ISP that supports it like
www.discountasp.net and that offers SQL Server as well.

Then you just transfer it.

HTH,

Shane
 
Hi Scott,
You don't technically need to have an Internet connection to build and test
a site locally. :)
You also don't need to buy a server product. XP Pro. will do fine (again
for local testing).
Click to expand...

That is what I told I even supported the link for the VB resource pack to
get a fast start.
There are not "special" or "small" versions of FrontPage. There are
different versions of the server extensions.
Click to expand...

This Frontpage was in the context of the sentence where we where talking
about the server extentions, here it is placed outside the context. What
would a provider do with Frontpage to host a site.

Although there are different versions of Frontpage, almost exactly in the
same version sequence as Outlook (even a comparable version with Outlook
Express).

Just a correction to place it in the right context

Cor
 
Cor said:
Hi Scott,


That is what I told I even supported the link for the VB resource pack to
get a fast start.
Click to expand...

But you did write:

"Yes you need to have a webserver and that needs to be connected to the
Internet."

So, I wanted to clarify it.
This Frontpage was in the context of the sentence where we where talking
about the server extentions, here it is placed outside the context. What
would a provider do with Frontpage to host a site.
Click to expand...

Not sure I understand that one. Using the server extensions does not mean
you have a special version of FP, nor are there "small" versions of FP,
which you wrote.

Just wanted to clarify that too! :)
 
Hi Scott,

This is in my message at the end
But my first advice is that if you have a XP pro or 2000 pro.
Click to expand...
Try it first and use for that the VB recource kit
Click to expand...

You can say that I did not explicit said he did not need a connection for
that, but because that I did say that he in every other option in that
message, that should be clear.

Frontpage is an application to make websites. And from that are different
versions it started with a very small free version as Outlook Express. But
that was not what I was saying in that context. It has nothing to do with
the frontpage server extentions.

Cor
 
Hi Cor,
Frontpage is an application to make websites. And from that are different
versions it started with a very small free version as Outlook Express. But
that was not what I was saying in that context. It has nothing to do with
the frontpage server extentions.
Click to expand...

This is the part I don't get. Yes, there was a FrontPage Express years
back, but not anymore. In your OP, you said

"probably he has a special version of frontpage (there are small versions)
that does not fit and he needs to have the framework on the server."

This is what I was trying to clarify. There is no way a host would have the
previously mentioned FP Express, so I assumed you meant that there are other
editions of FP around, which there aren't (versions yes, editions no). I
did not know what you meant by "special" and "small".

:)
 
Hi Scott,

Maybe you can give me a better name than "small versions" for the server
extensions packages on provider servers, which do not full have implemented
all things from the latest FrontPage extensions or for those providers which
do not full install the front page extensions or for versions from the
FrontPage extensions which have only a part implemented..

(One word please) I used for that "small versions" to give someone who never
heard of that not more problem than necessary because in my eyes that was
not important in the question.

However, if you want to criticize and that is your only action it seems, I
can it also.

Moreover, bellow, that solution you give is a solution from 1995, how do you
do an online flight booking system with that solution. This is just an
extended publishing system. Woody was in my opinion talking in a way about
to bring his website to real life.
Uhm yes. The process of working locally and then publishing the files to
the live host is certainly supported in .NET (that's how I work with my
site). Also, most host provide database support either by allowing you to
upload your own client database (like Access) or by providing MySQL or SQL
Server support, so database connectivity is not a problem.
Click to expand...


Cor
 
Maybe you can give me a better name than "small versions" for the server
extensions packages on provider servers, which do not full have implemented
all things from the latest FrontPage extensions or for those providers which
do not full install the front page extensions or for versions from the
FrontPage extensions which have only a part implemented..
Click to expand...

I would just call them what they are to avoid confusion, the "server
extensions". Yes they can be downloaded and installed without FP, but if
you have FP, then you also have the server extensions. Besides, any hosting
provider that supports FP, is going to have the extensions installed on
their servers. If the host says "FrontPage 2002 supported", then you know
that they have the *same* server extensions that you have if you have FP
2002, so it's a non-issue.
However, if you want to criticize and that is your only action it seems, I
Click to expand...
can it also.

I'm not trying to criticize, I'm trying to understand what you are saying.
I've been working with FP since Vermeer still owned it and I didn't know
what you were talking about. If I was confused by this, I'm guessing the OP
would be too.
Moreover, bellow, that solution you give is a solution from 1995, how do you
do an online flight booking system with that solution. This is just an
extended publishing system. Woody was in my opinion talking in a way about
to bring his website to real life.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what you are talking about here (maybe you didn't
understand what I was saying too). The process of developing locally (on a
development box) and then publishing out to a live (production box) is not
something from 1995. This is how you take your work and get it to the host.
What do you think the "Copy Project" feature and the "Only files needed to
run the application" choice of Visual Studio are for? How do *you* go from
development to production?
 
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