WD External hard disk failure...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jay
  • Start date Start date
J

Jay

I have a Western Digital 160 GB External USB 2.0 HDD (Model #
WD1600B008-RNN). It was working well and good and suddenly it stopped
working when I wasnt around. My brother was using it and he says he may
have changed the polarity for the DC input. I had a DC adapter which
can accomodate multiple heads. I changed it to right polarity and
switched it on.

When I switch it on, both the green and red lights are always lit, PC
identifies that there is a USB device connected, but it cannot "see"
the Ext HDD. Windows Drive Information did not list this drive.
Normally, the lights are lit and then the red light goes off. Only when
we start access the disk the red light blink.

I tried with WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for Windows program that lets
the PC to identify the drives but the drive did not show up. I tested
the input from power cable and it is working.

I suspect there is a board failure as the DC polarity was mixed
up.Since I dont work much on storage hardware, I suspect that there
should be a control mechanism/fuse which may prevent the board/hard
drive from being fried.

So as I read from the group, the next logical thing to do is to open
the enclosure and connect the drive directly to a PC?? I have a Dell
700m laptop, so I dont think I can plug it in as a secondary drive.

What would my options at this point of time?? Please suggest!!
1. Get another external enclosure
2. Try IDE-USB adaptor and use it in my laptop itself
3. Connect the drive to a PC as a secondary drive

I really appreciate your help on this!

Thanks very much!!
Jay
 
"Jay" said:
I have a Western Digital 160 GB External USB 2.0 HDD (Model #
WD1600B008-RNN). It was working well and good and suddenly it stopped
working when I wasnt around. My brother was using it and he says he may
have changed the polarity for the DC input. I had a DC adapter which
can accomodate multiple heads. I changed it to right polarity and
switched it on.

When I switch it on, both the green and red lights are always lit, PC
identifies that there is a USB device connected, but it cannot "see"
the Ext HDD. Windows Drive Information did not list this drive.
Normally, the lights are lit and then the red light goes off. Only when
we start access the disk the red light blink.

I tried with WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for Windows program that lets
the PC to identify the drives but the drive did not show up. I tested
the input from power cable and it is working.

I suspect there is a board failure as the DC polarity was mixed
up.Since I dont work much on storage hardware, I suspect that there
should be a control mechanism/fuse which may prevent the board/hard
drive from being fried.

So as I read from the group, the next logical thing to do is to open
the enclosure and connect the drive directly to a PC?? I have a Dell
700m laptop, so I dont think I can plug it in as a secondary drive.

What would my options at this point of time?? Please suggest!!
1. Get another external enclosure
2. Try IDE-USB adaptor and use it in my laptop itself
3. Connect the drive to a PC as a secondary drive

I really appreciate your help on this!

Thanks very much!!
Jay
Click to expand...

It is not good news, I suspect.

http://www.westerndigital.com/en/library/usb/2079-001044.pdf

Looking at the back of the enclosure, it uses 12VDC. That same
12VDC _could_ be connected directly to the controller board
(current for the motor) on the disk drive, as well as powering
a converter to make the necessary +5V to power the rest of it.
That means both the bridge board in the enclosure and the drive
itself could be damaged.

When placing an Adaptaplug in an appliance, a smart engineer
would place a diode, to prevent accidental polarity reversal.
This kind of plug is really a brain-dead solution, and should
have stayed at Radio Shack. The plug would be fine if it carried
raw AC, but polarized DC is just stupid. Any connector with a
keying mechanism that prevents reversal would be better than
that. Adaptaplugs tend to make flaky contact after years of use,
and would not be my first choice as a solution. I have enclosures
here that have a four pin connector (+5, +12, GND, GND), and it can
only be plugged one way. That would have been a superior
solution.

Try option (3) from your list first, and see if there is
any response from the drive. If the drive still works, then
you can consider (1) or (2).

Paul
 
Ill try that suggestion Paul! I hope option 3 works :(

And from no on, Im going to build it myself, get a HDD and build an
enclosure for it!!
 
Jay said:
Ill try that suggestion Paul! I hope option 3 works :(

And from no on, Im going to build it myself, get a HDD and build an
enclosure for it!!
Click to expand...

Keep your brother under control.

Q
 
Theres a servo control for the spindle motor and one for the 'arm
with the read write/heads on which has to move across the platters o
discs and the electronics itself

As previously mentioned if a diode had been used in series on the HD
then nothing would have happened should the supply be reversed as th
diode will be reversed biased and will not conduct

There are other tricks that could well be used, one is to use a ful
wave bridge rectifier on the HDD side of the supply, so that if th
supply is reversed the unit will still work because of the diod
configuration of the bridge rectifier, the negative and positiv
sides would go to the device and tha AC arms would go to the supply

One common trick I've come across, whether they use this in HDD
can't say and that is to fuse the supply and then connect a diod
across the supply...! This causes the diode to conduct when th
supply is reversed this ensures that the fuse 'blows' thus protectin
the electronics

Instead of fuses sometimes a 'fusible resistor' is used, all this i
is a low value metal filmed resistor

If any of the above are used in the HDD, they will all be SMD (surfac
mounted devices) components

Dav
 
When placing an Adaptaplug in an appliance, a smart engineer
would place a diode, to prevent accidental polarity reversal.
This kind of plug is really a brain-dead solution, and should
have stayed at Radio Shack. The plug would be fine if it carried
raw AC, but polarized DC is just stupid. Any connector with a
keying mechanism that prevents reversal would be better than
that.
Click to expand...

I'd have to disagree here, a diode is a GREAT idea, far
superior to a polarized plug. With the polarized plug one
is forced to use only the mating socket, limiting power
sources, and limiting viability of the support for reuse
some day.

These special plugs and sockets may easily cost more as
well, more than adding a diode which is a trivial cost.

So what if the diode drops a few tenths of a volt? "Easy"
and "Cheap" are not always brain-dead, it's worked well for
years and would've this time too. This might be more of an
issue on very low voltage portable battery-powered devices.
 
kony said:
I'd have to disagree here, a diode is a GREAT idea, far
superior to a polarized plug. With the polarized plug one
is forced to use only the mating socket, limiting power
sources, and limiting viability of the support for reuse
some day.

These special plugs and sockets may easily cost more as
well, more than adding a diode which is a trivial cost.

So what if the diode drops a few tenths of a volt? "Easy"
and "Cheap" are not always brain-dead, it's worked well for
years and would've this time too. This might be more of an
issue on very low voltage portable battery-powered devices.
Click to expand...

Another protective method is to install a reverse-biased diode
between the power rail/wire and ground, and place a fuse between the
power jack and the board. When power is hooked up correctly, there's
no voltage drop and no loss of power in the diode. If power is
hooked up in reverse polarity, the diode conducts (hard!) and the fuse
blows immediately, limiting the amount of reverse voltage applied to
the circuit to a volt or so for a small number of milliseconds.

The original poster might check to see if this is what happened to his
drive (I infer that his drive is a standard parallel-ATA with an
outboard USB 2.0 adapter-thingie on it?). There might be a blown
surface-mount fuse, near the power-cable connection point on the
adapter. If so, simply replacing this fuse might get the adapter and
drive working again.

I tend to prefer to use self-resetting polymer "fuses" in this sort of
application - nothing to replace if the fuse "blows" due to a reverse
polarity event - but they're more expensive than standard fusible
types.
 
Jay said:
I have a Western Digital 160 GB External USB 2.0 HDD (Model #
WD1600B008-RNN). It was working well and good and suddenly it stopped
working when I wasnt around. My brother was using it and he says he may
have changed the polarity for the DC input. I had a DC adapter which
can accomodate multiple heads. I changed it to right polarity and
switched it on.

When I switch it on, both the green and red lights are always lit, PC
identifies that there is a USB device connected, but it cannot "see"
the Ext HDD. Windows Drive Information did not list this drive.
Normally, the lights are lit and then the red light goes off. Only when
we start access the disk the red light blink.

I tried with WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for Windows program that lets
the PC to identify the drives but the drive did not show up. I tested
the input from power cable and it is working.

I suspect there is a board failure as the DC polarity was mixed
up.Since I dont work much on storage hardware, I suspect that there
should be a control mechanism/fuse which may prevent the board/hard
drive from being fried.

So as I read from the group, the next logical thing to do is to open
the enclosure and connect the drive directly to a PC?? I have a Dell
700m laptop, so I dont think I can plug it in as a secondary drive.

What would my options at this point of time?? Please suggest!!
1. Get another external enclosure
2. Try IDE-USB adaptor and use it in my laptop itself
3. Connect the drive to a PC as a secondary drive

I really appreciate your help on this!

Thanks very much!!
Jay
Click to expand...
Another thought would be to try plugging it into a different USB port. If
you have another working USB device try swapping the drive's USB port with
the other device.

The chances are more that the external drive enclosure's USB/IDE interface
blew but it's worth a try.
 
I'd have to disagree here, a diode is a GREAT idea, far
superior to a polarized plug. With the polarized plug one
is forced to use only the mating socket, limiting power
sources, and limiting viability of the support for reuse
some day.

These special plugs and sockets may easily cost more as
well, more than adding a diode which is a trivial cost.

So what if the diode drops a few tenths of a volt? "Easy"
and "Cheap" are not always brain-dead, it's worked well for
years and would've this time too. This might be more of an
issue on very low voltage portable battery-powered devices.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I made myself clear enough or not.

I'm referring to the fact that many companies use the circular
two contact plugs, and some of them make the center pin (+)
and some make the center pin (-). That is a recipe for disaster
if the appliance is not protected with a diode, as the consumer
can mate any wall wart that even remotely resembles the right one.

If you go to Radio Shack, there are about 15 different kinds
of Adaptaplugs. At least a couple of them will fit in holes
they really shouldn't, which means the size of the plug, doesn't
provide a means of preventing the wrong things being plugged
together. And if I want, I can connect a 12V supply from one
product, into the 7V socket on another product.

On the "Radio Shack end" of the stuff they sell, there are two
styles of pins. Some Adaptaplugs have asymmetric pins, which
prevents installing a Radio Shack adapter on one of their power
bricks the wrong way. Other kits from Radio Shack have symmetric
pins, which causes the center conductor of the Adaptaplug to
be either (+) or (-) without the customer knowing. In fact, for
some of this style of product I own, I use my multimeter to
verify the center pin is the right polarity, before each and
every use of the product.

Such a connector concept is "for the birds". Each voltage should
have its own connector style. Each connector should be designed
so it cannot be reversed. A requirement like that would prevent
the proliferation of 15 very similar connectors/sockets, and then
perhaps personal electronics would have fewer operating voltages.

This is the right way to build a disk enclosure. No mistakes here.
No brick. Just an AC power cord.

http://gfx.cdfreaks.com/reviews/ads_LL5-DLX-185/image020.png

This is the second best concept. It uses an external brick, but
the power plug is "DIN-like" and the pattern unique enough that
there is only one way to connect it. I have seen a similar
molded 1x4 style plug as well, for disk enclosures.

http://www.firewire-1394.com/images/800-plat-rear.jpg

This, on the other hand, is the height of absurdity. This is
fine for hackers, or home rocket-scientists, but for people
who want their stuff to "just work", what were they thinking ?

http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=adaptaplug

Paul
 
I don't know if I made myself clear enough or not.

I'm referring to the fact that many companies use the circular
two contact plugs, and some of them make the center pin (+)
and some make the center pin (-). That is a recipe for disaster
if the appliance is not protected with a diode, as the consumer
can mate any wall wart that even remotely resembles the right one.
Click to expand...

Ah, now I see. Yes that's certainly a problem... think RS
just went for the lazy generic approach.

If you go to Radio Shack, there are about 15 different kinds
of Adaptaplugs. At least a couple of them will fit in holes
they really shouldn't, which means the size of the plug, doesn't
provide a means of preventing the wrong things being plugged
together. And if I want, I can connect a 12V supply from one
product, into the 7V socket on another product.

On the "Radio Shack end" of the stuff they sell, there are two
styles of pins. Some Adaptaplugs have asymmetric pins, which
prevents installing a Radio Shack adapter on one of their power
bricks the wrong way. Other kits from Radio Shack have symmetric
pins, which causes the center conductor of the Adaptaplug to
be either (+) or (-) without the customer knowing. In fact, for
some of this style of product I own, I use my multimeter to
verify the center pin is the right polarity, before each and
every use of the product.

Such a connector concept is "for the birds". Each voltage should
have its own connector style. Each connector should be designed
so it cannot be reversed. A requirement like that would prevent
the proliferation of 15 very similar connectors/sockets, and then
perhaps personal electronics would have fewer operating voltages.

This is the right way to build a disk enclosure. No mistakes here.
No brick. Just an AC power cord.

http://gfx.cdfreaks.com/reviews/ads_LL5-DLX-185/image020.png
Click to expand...

I have a few old SCSI boxes like this, retrofitted one for
USB2 and while it's definitely built like a tank, it's too
large for most people's taste, and such a design for a new
product is probably too expensive to be very competitive in
the consumer market.
 
Yes. This is 'historic'. Basically, US, and UK kit will tend to use tip
+ve, but stuff from Japan, uses tip -ve. Even here there are exceptions
with companies electing to 'buck the trend'.
Ah, now I see. Yes that's certainly a problem... think RS
just went for the lazy generic approach.
Click to expand...
There has been a system offering this for some years. There is a
'standard' family of connectors, very like the round wall-wart power plug,
except the centre pin is the other way round. This comes in four or five
different sizes, and the standard specifies what voltage is associated
with each plug size. Some kit in recent years (especially things like
mobile phones), have started using this design. However 90% of kit still
uses the old style tubular plug, because it is so cheap, and so readily
available...
I have a few old SCSI boxes like this, retrofitted one for
USB2 and while it's definitely built like a tank, it's too
large for most people's taste, and such a design for a new
product is probably too expensive to be very competitive in
the consumer market.
Click to expand...
Also the cost to make the supply work, and be approved 'worldwide' is
prohibitive. The advantage of the wall-wart approach, is that from the
point of view of the company making the kit, it does not have to be
approved as a 'mains' appliance.

Best Wishes
 
Yes. This is 'historic'. Basically, US, and UK kit will tend to use tip
+ve, but stuff from Japan, uses tip -ve. Even here there are exceptions
with companies electing to 'buck the trend'.
Click to expand...

Tip?

Typical DC coaxial connector in US has always used center
positive and sleeve ground. This includes products made in
Japan. There have been some ill-conceived products using
reverse polarity but never enough to be anything other than
a rare annoyance.

There has been a system offering this for some years. There is a
'standard' family of connectors, very like the round wall-wart power plug,
except the centre pin is the other way round. This comes in four or five
different sizes, and the standard specifies what voltage is associated
with each plug size. Some kit in recent years (especially things like
mobile phones), have started using this design. However 90% of kit still
uses the old style tubular plug, because it is so cheap, and so readily
available...
Click to expand...

Many of those are used in space-constrained designs, not
quite what's being faced on the external storage boxes,
where I'd tend to think the durability of a larger connector
is better. Voltage - keying mind be a reasonable approach
when a device does have a specific input requirement but
many devices today regulate down the voltage further so the
keying is in itself a potential problem if one loses the
power supply or it fails, making it possibly much more
expensive to replace. For example, right now my cable modem
would run off of any of more than a dozen spare wall-warts I
have lying around, because it uses a standard connector ...
but it also has a diode in series on the power so a reversed
polarity connection wouldn't be problematic.

Also the cost to make the supply work, and be approved 'worldwide' is
prohibitive.
Click to expand...

I'm not entirely sure about that, generally such devices are
engineered to the highest common denominator - IE, to pass
in any country they might be sold in. This only for
approval, for the voltage differences I suppose in some
cases it might be cheaper to produce different supply rather
than one full-range supply.

The advantage of the wall-wart approach, is that from the
point of view of the company making the kit, it does not have to be
approved as a 'mains' appliance.
Click to expand...

This may be the biggest advantage, though I also tend to
think it's cheaper due to the commodity status of a common
wall-wart, even switchers these days, rather than having to
spec and buy or build custom supplies.
 
Well, in my case too, the center was positive and the wrap around was
negative. Actually it wasw my bad to get this, after i lost the OEM
adapter, I didnt want to spend $25 to get an adapter that just works
for my External drive and now I'm repenting for it. Its my wal-mart
mentality bang for the buck kinda thingy that went wrong.

It does have a fuse right after the power supply get in to the board,
but I'm not sure whether its blown or not, I alreayd opened the cover
but I dint have the instruments to check the voltage.

Another thing is, the lights are lit when I plug in the power source,
that makes me think that the fuse is fine.

But anyway, ill remove the drive (its a standard WD Caviar IDE drive)
and hook it up to a PC.

Incase that does not work out good, any alternative methods to recover
the data? As I searched in the news group I see professionals charging
$100 per gig. :(((
 
I did try it in different machines, the USB recognizes it as a mass
storage device. But I'm getting a code 10, which means the device
cannot be started.
 
Well, in my case too, the center was positive and the wrap around was
negative. Actually it wasw my bad to get this, after i lost the OEM
adapter, I didnt want to spend $25 to get an adapter that just works
for my External drive and now I'm repenting for it. Its my wal-mart
mentality bang for the buck kinda thingy that went wrong.
Click to expand...

You didn't need to spend $25, only to get one that was
suitable. For example, you take the output labeling on the
original and find a close match (if not exactly same)
voltage and at least as much amperage. If it is a simple
unregulated transformer type wall-wart rather than a
switching type, do not overshoot much on the amperage unless
you're sure the device regulates down the supply further
since a lightly loaded simple-transformer will have a higher
voltage in such uses.

So for example if an original supply had 12V and 800mA
output, seeking another 12V 750-1000mA rated supply
(considering switching vs unregulated as mentioned above)
with the same common polarity and barrel connector would
work- and can generally be found for anywhere from $1 to $10
online, a bit more for those outputting multiple voltages.
If none with a suitable connector can be found, one might
get a connector from Radio Shack or online separately-
though too many separate online purchases and you're close
enough to the $25 mark again as the individual shipping
charges start to add up.

I would be hesitant to buy same adapter you already had
fail, since the failure is an indication this specific
make/model may be prone to problems for whatever reason.

It does have a fuse right after the power supply get in to the board,
but I'm not sure whether its blown or not, I alreayd opened the cover
but I dint have the instruments to check the voltage.
Click to expand...

Without a multimeter and a bit of troubleshooting skill, you
are left to swap parts around, trying the drive in another
system an another drive on that system.

Another thing is, the lights are lit when I plug in the power source,
that makes me think that the fuse is fine.
Click to expand...

If it is a fuse on the input, for the entire device, yes it
would clearly indicate the fuse is not blown. I don't know
exactly what yours is like though, nor see what you do-
there are other various reasons for fuses, like a fused
connection if it has a hub and USB port(s) integral.

But anyway, ill remove the drive (its a standard WD Caviar IDE drive)
and hook it up to a PC.

Incase that does not work out good, any alternative methods to recover
the data? As I searched in the news group I see professionals charging
$100 per gig. :(((
Click to expand...

If the drive is damaged it's most likely the circuit board,
in which case you could try to source another identical
board and swap them... though I don't know details about
that model of drive, just how similar any two models have to
be to find a compatible board, nor which /what PCB markings
to use to find this.

Otherwise, if the drive won't work you have no options left
except the recovery service, or "maybe" trying to reverse
engineer the PCB/components and find the specific fault, if
it were only one thing faulty. I glanced at a different
drive here (maxtor 80GB) and it had a protection diode on
the power intake, AFAICT, I didn't look really carefully
onlly long enough to see the diode since it wasn't same
model and wouldn't be diretly applicable.

I would suspect at least the USB board in the enclosure is
fried, but no guess about the drive itself.
 
Dave said:
kony said:
I'd have to disagree here, a diode is a GREAT idea, far
superior to a polarized plug. With the polarized plug one
is forced to use only the mating socket, limiting power
sources, and limiting viability of the support for reuse
some day.

These special plugs and sockets may easily cost more as
well, more than adding a diode which is a trivial cost.

So what if the diode drops a few tenths of a volt? "Easy"
and "Cheap" are not always brain-dead, it's worked well for
years and would've this time too. This might be more of an
issue on very low voltage portable battery-powered devices.
Click to expand...

Another protective method is to install a reverse-biased diode
between the power rail/wire and ground, and place a fuse between the
power jack and the board. [...]
Click to expand...

A third way to use a diode which is also lossless is to interrupt the
supply wires inside the equipment with a the contacts of a relay
and drive the relay coil from the upstream side via a series diode
arranged in forward conduction polarity from a correctly applied
supply voltage. If that supply is reverse polarity, the diode doesn't
conduct and the relay won't close so the equipmemt is protected.

HTH
 
Jay said:
Well, in my case too, the center was positive and the wrap around was
negative. Actually it wasw my bad to get this, after i lost the OEM
adapter, I didnt want to spend $25 to get an adapter that just works
for my External drive and now I'm repenting for it. Its my wal-mart
mentality bang for the buck kinda thingy that went wrong.

It does have a fuse right after the power supply get in to the board,
but I'm not sure whether its blown or not, I alreayd opened the cover
but I dint have the instruments to check the voltage.

Another thing is, the lights are lit when I plug in the power source,
that makes me think that the fuse is fine.

But anyway, ill remove the drive (its a standard WD Caviar IDE drive)
and hook it up to a PC.

Incase that does not work out good, any alternative methods to recover
the data? As I searched in the news group I see professionals charging
$100 per gig. :(((
Click to expand...
In another case somebody suggested getting an identical drive,
(as you did not mechanically damage the drive),and use its
electronic board to try and readout this drive.Might not work,
as the head amplifiers could be inside, but it is less expensive
then the data recovery service.(even if it costs you a new drive).
 
A third way to use a diode which is also lossless is to interrupt the
supply wires inside the equipment with a the contacts of a relay
and drive the relay coil from the upstream side via a series diode
arranged in forward conduction polarity from a correctly applied
supply voltage. If that supply is reverse polarity, the diode doesn't
conduct and the relay won't close so the equipmemt is protected.
Click to expand...


That would work too, though I tend to believe the most
predominant issue in these low-cost inclosures is the cost
to implement any kind of protection, I doubt the budget
would accomodate any decent relay, especially if they were
cost constrained so much that they didn't even add a low
dropout diode alone. We can't even necessarily consider
the diode a "loss" per se, because if the supply is kept at
constant voltage and downstream is lower, the downstream
parts can tend to use less power at this lower voltage... or
crash if the voltage is TOO low, but given something like a
schottky you'd be looking at about 2% voltage drop on 12V or
higher supply which shouldn't be a problem.
 
I got a multimeter from work today...checked all the voltages and
currents, its all perfect, uptill the point where it goes to the HDD :(

I cannot switch boards as I heard that WD drives have some information
specific for each drive embedded in those boards, dont know how far its
true, but i dont want to ruin my changes of recovering the data.

Ill try mounting this drive thro IDE on a PC and let know how it
goes...
 
Back
Top