<warning: RANT> interviews and memorization questions

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PJ6

I've written and deployed a 100kloc product inteded to compete with SAP.
I've authored IDE plugins (aspect-oriented progamming enhancements,
relational-object mappers), my own AJAX framwork, a multithreaded physics
engine. I've developed very high-profile, successful websites for certain
departments of the State of Massachusetts. I have done small and large
projects for local universities and financial insititions.

And yet, I have just been told by an interviewer that I'm 'too
inexperienced' because I couldn't remember some detail about web method
attribution. WTF? There are a billion details that I can't keep in my
immediately accesible memory, or my head would explode.

What's the point if I have to keep proving myself to everyone I want to do
businesss with? Screw my MIT degree, I guess it just doesn't mean anything
any more. I'm going down to McDonald's right now to get my application
because if that and 10 years of experience isn't good enough, I guess I
should be flipping burgers.
 
Hi, PJ6,

If that's the first time you've encountered this sort of thing you've been
lucky.

I've generally taken the perspective that an "interview" is a two-way
process. While I must persuade the interviewer that I am qualified for the
task at hand, the organization must also prove to me that they have a task
that will be interesting/challenging to me. In a case such as the one you
describe, I would ask myself: "Would I want a position at a level where the
interviewer considers mundane technical details to be critically important?"
Or if the tasks and level of work DO appear to be interesting then: "Would I
want to work for an organization that hires interviewers of shallow mind?"
"Will this enhance my reputation?"

So, go on and look for something more interesting.

Good luck,
Randy
 
PJ6 said:
I've written and deployed a 100kloc product inteded to compete with SAP.
I've authored IDE plugins (aspect-oriented progamming enhancements,
relational-object mappers), my own AJAX framwork, a multithreaded physics
engine. I've developed very high-profile, successful websites for certain
departments of the State of Massachusetts. I have done small and large
projects for local universities and financial insititions.

And yet, I have just been told by an interviewer that I'm 'too
inexperienced' because I couldn't remember some detail about web method
attribution. WTF? There are a billion details that I can't keep in my
immediately accesible memory, or my head would explode.

What's the point if I have to keep proving myself to everyone I want to do
businesss with? Screw my MIT degree, I guess it just doesn't mean anything
any more. I'm going down to McDonald's right now to get my application
because if that and 10 years of experience isn't good enough, I guess I
should be flipping burgers.
Click to expand...


Could it be how you answered the person when you couldn't remember the
detail? I'm more impressed if the interviewee would say something to the
effect: "Boy, that's really in the weeds. But here is my shot at it...".
Guessing at an answer rather than admitting uncertainty would lead to a
lower rating in my opinion.
 
I've generally taken the perspective that an "interview" is a two-way
process. While I must persuade the interviewer that I am qualified for the
task at hand, the organization must also prove to me that they have a task
that will be interesting/challenging to me. In a case such as the one you
describe, I would ask myself: "Would I want a position at a level where the
interviewer considers mundane technical details to be critically important?"
Or if the tasks and level of work DO appear to be interesting then: "Would I
want to work for an organization that hires interviewers of shallow mind?"
"Will this enhance my reputation?"
Click to expand...


Agreed. I stumbled across an article ages ago on AskTheHeadHunter.com about this.
I use it every interview. Unfortunately the site is not updated much anymore..

The gist of it is this: Don't do "interviews". Do work meetings.

They invite you in. You sit down. They start asking "where do you see yourself in 5 years", blah blah.
Do not answer this. Simply ask what they are hiring you to do, and START DOING IT.

Get out of the chair, walk to a white board, and start diagramming, and talking about how you
would solve the problem.

This lets you discuss things as an equal, and show off your knowledge.

If they have any sense, they are trying to hire someone to help solve a business problem.
Demonstrate you can do that. If you can not solve problems, it does not matter how well
you fit in with the team, etc..

If they want trivia questions, move on.

Also, managers do not like wasting a week doing many interviews. They just want one person.

Some places do not like this much. Fine. I would not like working there..
Also, no HR. I talk to a hiring manager, or nobody.

Also, check the hardware. Nothing worse than being put in front of a P3 with 512megs of ram on your first day..
Oh, but we have an upgrade on order... PASS.
 
Unfortunately, this may have nothing to do with your experience, The
interviewer may have already decided he didn't want you for some reasons
that has nothing to do with your qualifications (no offense intended). What
you endured may have just been his/her excuse to cover something else.
Remember, companies cannot discriminate on sex, race, creed, etc. The
excuse you were given isn't covered under that.

FWIW, I think your credentials are impressive...their loss.

- Kev

| I've written and deployed a 100kloc product inteded to compete with SAP.
| I've authored IDE plugins (aspect-oriented progamming enhancements,
| relational-object mappers), my own AJAX framwork, a multithreaded physics
| engine. I've developed very high-profile, successful websites for certain
| departments of the State of Massachusetts. I have done small and large
| projects for local universities and financial insititions.
|
| And yet, I have just been told by an interviewer that I'm 'too
| inexperienced' because I couldn't remember some detail about web method
| attribution. WTF? There are a billion details that I can't keep in my
| immediately accesible memory, or my head would explode.
|
| What's the point if I have to keep proving myself to everyone I want to do
| businesss with? Screw my MIT degree, I guess it just doesn't mean anything
| any more. I'm going down to McDonald's right now to get my application
| because if that and 10 years of experience isn't good enough, I guess I
| should be flipping burgers.
|
|
 
CJ

Here in the Netherlands a lot of companys , think that you should be
honored if they want to hire you , however i turn it around , a company
should be honored if i decide i may want to work for them , if i work at a
company they must impress me to let me stay at that company.

I had once a interview at Logica where i was told i had not enough
"experience" , i had a few days later a interview at Ordina where i was
told i had to much "experience" and i should be bether of working as a
independent contractror for the middle market, i currently work for a
multinational ( the worldwide ista corporation ) as a core developer on
there production systems .

I know that in both interviews i behaved differently but my programming /
computer skills were the same , the Logica interview was my first interview
in years and i was verry unsure , and behaved submitive to the interviewer ,
at Ordina however i pep talked myself on forehand and i showed a more
arogant atitude , i already went into that interview with the thought that
they should be honnored if i decided i was willing to work for them .

So i guess those interviewers base there conclusions more on your
personality you show them as on your actuall skills introverse is translated
to "not enough" and extraverse is translated as "to much" experience .

First of all you must be sure about your own skills despite what anyone else
tells you , i guess in your situation and probaly also in mine the
interviewer was the one who lacked the experience to poke through your
shield and detect the "skilled coder" they actually needed .

In my case the more arogant attitude has worked pretty well , i am aware of
my coding skills , and i am aware of the fact that they need me as much as i
need them
if it doenst`work at company X well so be it , probably the Cosmos has other
plans with you or you are beeing protected by it as Logica fired a lot of
its coders in the Netherlands, and Ordina`s stock is now E 2,70 my current
employer ? we get an extra six week bonus because it is going so well in our
business ,, even bether the company is getting more profit because of the
credit crisis :-) .


One of my favorite answers if i do not have the answer for a question right
away "I may not have all the answers , but i can certainly provide them "


regards

Michel Posseth
 
I've definitely seen that in some places, they feel that you should be
grateful to have a job at all. A year ago I thought having my own business
would be great since I'd escape that, but web work seems to be all there is,
and it's all so boring. When I graduated I could have gone into any
technical field ('with that degree you can do anything')... and now I see
none of that faith, given no opportunity to learn on the job. They don't
want inventiveness, creativity, motivation. They put 'excellent' in the job
requirements, but they really want mediocre. I'm reduced to whatever I
already know, I'm just a commodity. I never expected this.

Paul
 
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