O
old jon
Have a look in the Event Viewer for problems\errors.Matty Anderson said:
bw..OJ
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bw..OJ
M
Matty Anderson
This is a new issue which has been difficult for me to pinpoint a cause in
my desktop.
The symptoms: When waking from standby or hibernation, the screen will go
black for about 1 second every 5 seconds (roughly). It sometimes does it as
soon as it wakes, but sometimes it will be fine for 10-20 minutes and then
start blinking. Once it starts the blinking, it doesn't stop. The monitor
doesn't turn off or reset, mind you (there's no clicking sound like when
adjusting the resolution). It just goes black for a second, then comes
back. A restart cures it.
Recent changes: I have installed a new PSU (Thermaltake 430W), a new video
card (BFG 6800 OC), and a second stick of ram (Corsair valueselect 512mb,
400mhz ddr).
I don't know exactly when it started, is the problem. I did all these
upgrades over the course of about 2 weeks, so I was turning the computer off
most of the time in there. When I went back to my usual practice of just
using standby, I noticed this issue.
I don't think it's the RAM, because I took out the new 512 and just left the
original 512 in there (also Corsair valueselect) and it still does it.
I don't think it's the video card, because I do know that it started this
behavior before I upgraded the card. However, could it be the drivers? I
upgraded the drivers about 2 weeks before the new card got put in from
forceware 70something to the current 81.95's.
Is it possible that the motherboard is flaking out? It's only about a year
old.
Hardware: Shuttle AN35N Ultra 400, AMD Athlon XP 2500+ (oc'd to 3200+), 512
mb Corsair ram (currently), BFG 6800oc video card.
Thanks for any ideas.
my desktop.
The symptoms: When waking from standby or hibernation, the screen will go
black for about 1 second every 5 seconds (roughly). It sometimes does it as
soon as it wakes, but sometimes it will be fine for 10-20 minutes and then
start blinking. Once it starts the blinking, it doesn't stop. The monitor
doesn't turn off or reset, mind you (there's no clicking sound like when
adjusting the resolution). It just goes black for a second, then comes
back. A restart cures it.
Recent changes: I have installed a new PSU (Thermaltake 430W), a new video
card (BFG 6800 OC), and a second stick of ram (Corsair valueselect 512mb,
400mhz ddr).
I don't know exactly when it started, is the problem. I did all these
upgrades over the course of about 2 weeks, so I was turning the computer off
most of the time in there. When I went back to my usual practice of just
using standby, I noticed this issue.
I don't think it's the RAM, because I took out the new 512 and just left the
original 512 in there (also Corsair valueselect) and it still does it.
I don't think it's the video card, because I do know that it started this
behavior before I upgraded the card. However, could it be the drivers? I
upgraded the drivers about 2 weeks before the new card got put in from
forceware 70something to the current 81.95's.
Is it possible that the motherboard is flaking out? It's only about a year
old.
Hardware: Shuttle AN35N Ultra 400, AMD Athlon XP 2500+ (oc'd to 3200+), 512
mb Corsair ram (currently), BFG 6800oc video card.
Thanks for any ideas.
K
kony
This is a new issue which has been difficult for me to pinpoint a cause in
my desktop.
The symptoms: When waking from standby or hibernation, the screen will go
black for about 1 second every 5 seconds (roughly). It sometimes does it as
soon as it wakes, but sometimes it will be fine for 10-20 minutes and then
start blinking. Once it starts the blinking, it doesn't stop. The monitor
doesn't turn off or reset, mind you (there's no clicking sound like when
adjusting the resolution). It just goes black for a second, then comes
back. A restart cures it.
Recent changes: I have installed a new PSU (Thermaltake 430W), a new video
card (BFG 6800 OC), and a second stick of ram (Corsair valueselect 512mb,
400mhz ddr).
Odds are it's the video card driver, or perhaps a
combination of that and the motherboard bios (or bios
settings for power management, maybe, but less likely).
Are you using the newest nVidia Detonator driver? It's
version 81.xx something-or-other, maybe 82.xx by now. IF
you are observing this with the newer 8x.xx series including
the newest one, try backing up to the 7x.xx series, may find
the 77.xx series drivers work best for them (but I don't
recall anyone with this particular issue).
I don't know exactly when it started, is the problem. I did all these
upgrades over the course of about 2 weeks, so I was turning the computer off
most of the time in there. When I went back to my usual practice of just
using standby, I noticed this issue.
I don't think it's the RAM, because I took out the new 512 and just left the
original 512 in there (also Corsair valueselect) and it still does it.
I don't think it's the video card, because I do know that it started this
behavior before I upgraded the card. However, could it be the drivers? I
upgraded the drivers about 2 weeks before the new card got put in from
forceware 70something to the current 81.95's.
Yes, that's highly suspect.
Is it possible that the motherboard is flaking out? It's only about a year
old.
Doubtful, more likely the problem had existed the whole time
and you just didn't notice it till now (perhaps the newer
driver reveals a flaw in the board bios that the older,
didn't).
Hardware: Shuttle AN35N Ultra 400, AMD Athlon XP 2500+ (oc'd to 3200+), 512
mb Corsair ram (currently), BFG 6800oc video card.
I may end up eating my words. ;-)
AN35N is not a bad board, some would say pretty good even,
BUT IIRC it uses some cut-rate OST capacitors that might not
hold up so well over the course of time, especially if
overclocking.
One crude test I like to do to compare capacitors is to look
at one of the best name-brands like Panasonic or Rubycon,
what can size (physical dimensions) any given part would be.
These should be the premium low-est parts in either brand's
respective aluminum electrolytic lines. In front of me I
have an OST cap from a Shuttle MN31N, it's a 10V 3300uF cap
from the VRM circuit (near the CPU socket). It's 25mm tall
x 10mm diameter. Comparing that to a Panasonic FM, /their/
10V 3300UF cap is 25mm tall x 12.5mm diameter. This is a
fairly substantial 2.5mm different in diameter. With
Rubycon, for example their MBZ series, a 25mm tall x 10mm
dia. 3300uF cap is no higher than 6.3V- which seems a bit
backwards but all things being equal it means Rubycon's 10V
3300uF part is also larger than the OST. A similar
situation exists with many of the caps of yesteryear that
have failed prematurely, their undersized per their specs,
seeming to suggest they are making the windings a bit too
thin.
Anyway, that's just a tangent, as it's not so likely to be
the caps causing your immediate problem providing the system
is otherwise stable (including gaming).
G
gold fingers
Go to http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309283/?FR=1. You will probably
need to install the proper Hardware Abstraction Layer. Sorry, a HAL can
only be installed during the initial installation of your Windows XP
Operating System, it can not be installed any other way. Did you ever
see after the first reboot during installation (on the bottom of the
screen) "Press F6 if you have to install a third-party SCSI or RAID
driver". Well, instead of pressing F6, you press F5 to get a selection
of 8 different HAL drivers. Most mainboards now-a-days were made after
Windows XP was released, so it will not get installed automatically.
The WIZARD does not recognize the mainboard or BIOS. I havn't used that
Web Site address for quite a long time, so if it doesn't work, then you
will have to use the Microsoft search/help engine. I use the HAL for
hibernate on another SOYO mainboard setup that is about 4 years old.
The HAL driver for that mainboard is "Advanced Configuration and Power
Interface (ACPI) PC" type. You will need to know somewhat about what
your BIOS, CPU, and motherboard is about in order to select the right
driver. You can start with a process of elimination such as, not ACPI
Multiprocessor PC, or not MPS Multiprocessor PC, etc. That Web Site
will give you the list to look over. Also look at
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/299340/EN-US/?FR=1
Later, Gold Fingers
need to install the proper Hardware Abstraction Layer. Sorry, a HAL can
only be installed during the initial installation of your Windows XP
Operating System, it can not be installed any other way. Did you ever
see after the first reboot during installation (on the bottom of the
screen) "Press F6 if you have to install a third-party SCSI or RAID
driver". Well, instead of pressing F6, you press F5 to get a selection
of 8 different HAL drivers. Most mainboards now-a-days were made after
Windows XP was released, so it will not get installed automatically.
The WIZARD does not recognize the mainboard or BIOS. I havn't used that
Web Site address for quite a long time, so if it doesn't work, then you
will have to use the Microsoft search/help engine. I use the HAL for
hibernate on another SOYO mainboard setup that is about 4 years old.
The HAL driver for that mainboard is "Advanced Configuration and Power
Interface (ACPI) PC" type. You will need to know somewhat about what
your BIOS, CPU, and motherboard is about in order to select the right
driver. You can start with a process of elimination such as, not ACPI
Multiprocessor PC, or not MPS Multiprocessor PC, etc. That Web Site
will give you the list to look over. Also look at
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/299340/EN-US/?FR=1
Later, Gold Fingers
M
Matty Anderson
old jon said:Have a look in the Event Viewer for problems\errors.
bw..OJ
I do have 3 errors which occur every time I start up, but they don't seem to
coincide with the screen issue. (Which, by the way, has now extended itself
to occurring after hard starts, too. And it's getting more frequent).
I looked in the KB for info on the errors, and nothing sounds like it would
be related to a display issue.
The three common errors I see are these, under applications.
Event Type: Error
Event Source: EventSystem
Event Category: (50)
Event ID: 4609
Date: 1/9/2006
Time: 9:36:45 PM
User: N/A
Computer: MATTY
Description:
The COM+ Event System detected a bad return code during its internal
processing. HRESULT was C0000005 from line 44 of
d:\nt_qxp\com\com1x\src\events\tier1\eventsystemobj.cpp. Please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services to report this error.
For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Event Type: Error
Event Source: Perflib
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1015
Date: 1/9/2006
Time: 9:36:44 PM
User: N/A
Computer: MATTY
Description:
The timeout waiting for the performance data collection function "Spooler"
in the "C:\WINDOWS\System32\winspool.drv" Library to finish has expired.
There may be a problem with this extensible counter or the service it is
collecting data from or the system may have been very busy when this call
was attempted.
For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Event Type: Error
Event Source: PerfNet
Event Category: None
Event ID: 2004
Date: 1/9/2006
Time: 9:36:39 PM
User: N/A
Computer: MATTY
Description:
Unable to open the Server service. Server performance data will not be
returned. Error code returned is in data DWORD 0.
For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 34 00 00 c0 4..À
Under System, I've just been getting a bunch of warnings (about 10 in a row)
Event Type: Warning
Event Source: Ftdisk
Event Category: Disk
Event ID: 57
Date: 1/9/2006
Time: 9:02:19 PM
User: N/A
Computer: MATTY
Description:
The system failed to flush data to the transaction log. Corruption may
occur.
For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 00 00 00 00 01 00 be 00 ......¾.
0008: 02 00 00 00 39 00 04 80 ....9..€
0010: 00 00 00 00 0e 00 00 c0 .......À
0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
Event Type: Warning
Event Source: Disk
Event Category: None
Event ID: 51
Date: 1/9/2006
Time: 9:02:14 PM
User: N/A
Computer: MATTY
Description:
An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk2\D during a paging
operation.
For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 04 00 68 00 01 00 b6 00 ..h...¶.
0008: 00 00 00 00 33 00 04 80 ....3..€
0010: 2d 01 00 00 0e 00 00 c0 -......À
0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0028: 5a df 5a 00 00 00 00 00 ZßZ.....
0030: ff ff ff ff 01 00 00 00 ÿÿÿÿ....
0038: 40 00 00 08 00 00 00 00 @.......
0040: 00 20 0a 12 80 01 20 40 . ..€. @
0048: 00 00 00 00 0a 00 00 00 ........
0050: 00 40 92 81 b0 e2 bb 81 .@’°â»
0058: 00 00 00 00 08 20 90 81 .....
0060: 00 00 00 00 6f a2 f7 02 ....o¢÷.
0068: 2a 00 02 f7 a2 6f 00 00 *..÷¢o..
0070: 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0078: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0080: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0088: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
I don't know if this means anything to you. It sure doesn't to me. But
thanks for the advice!
Matt
G
gold fingers
I don't know Matty, Since most of the errors seem to be timing related
issues, and if in the past you've done any tweeking with clocking in
your BIOS, could it be that the new vidio drivers had an affect on
timing at startup? I don't know what BIOS you have because I'm not
familiar with the AN35N, however, try this one thing. If your BIOS has
a "RAS to CAS Delay", set it to one timing higher. If that doesn't make
a difference, well I just don't know. Since the vidio drivers were
installed two weeks before the vidio card, did you uninstall the
drivers to whatever drivers might work to see if the errors occur or
not. Still get the errors?, then I would look more into what KONY had
to explain. Good Luck, Gold Fingers
issues, and if in the past you've done any tweeking with clocking in
your BIOS, could it be that the new vidio drivers had an affect on
timing at startup? I don't know what BIOS you have because I'm not
familiar with the AN35N, however, try this one thing. If your BIOS has
a "RAS to CAS Delay", set it to one timing higher. If that doesn't make
a difference, well I just don't know. Since the vidio drivers were
installed two weeks before the vidio card, did you uninstall the
drivers to whatever drivers might work to see if the errors occur or
not. Still get the errors?, then I would look more into what KONY had
to explain. Good Luck, Gold Fingers
M
Matty Anderson
I've tried something that seems to have an immediate effect. Turning down
the overclocking. I had been running the 2500+ (Athlon mobile, 266Mhz
Barton) at close to 3200+ speeds
(195x12). It had gotten bad to the point that even when I simply turned on
the
computer, the bios screen was corrupted. I turned it down to 200x11 and
that stopped. However, waking from standby is still an issue. I'm hoping
that it's just been the
effect of overclocking it for nearly a year has begun to take its toll on
the cpu.
I'm wondering what has the most damaging effect on the cpu, frequency or
multiplier. Would it be less damaging to run at 183x13 as opposed to
200x11? (both give about 2.2Ghz). Or is it strictly the speed that's the
most taxing? I guess I'll just keep tuning it down and see if there's a
point where the issue stops.
Thanks for your advice, all.
Matt
the overclocking. I had been running the 2500+ (Athlon mobile, 266Mhz
Barton) at close to 3200+ speeds
(195x12). It had gotten bad to the point that even when I simply turned on
the
computer, the bios screen was corrupted. I turned it down to 200x11 and
that stopped. However, waking from standby is still an issue. I'm hoping
that it's just been the
effect of overclocking it for nearly a year has begun to take its toll on
the cpu.
I'm wondering what has the most damaging effect on the cpu, frequency or
multiplier. Would it be less damaging to run at 183x13 as opposed to
200x11? (both give about 2.2Ghz). Or is it strictly the speed that's the
most taxing? I guess I'll just keep tuning it down and see if there's a
point where the issue stops.
Thanks for your advice, all.
Matt
K
kony
I've tried something that seems to have an immediate effect. Turning down
the overclocking. I had been running the 2500+ (Athlon mobile, 266Mhz
Barton) at close to 3200+ speeds
(195x12). It had gotten bad to the point that even when I simply turned on
the
computer, the bios screen was corrupted. I turned it down to 200x11 and
that stopped. However, waking from standby is still an issue. I'm hoping
that it's just been the
effect of overclocking it for nearly a year has begun to take its toll on
the cpu.
I'm wondering what has the most damaging effect on the cpu, frequency or
multiplier.
Neither. The CPU is quite likely to overclock to the same
speed it could all along, rather there might be other
variables such as contacts degrading (socket or memory),
motherboard power (VRM subcircuit) degraded or power supply
itself degrading.
However, AFAIK you haven't menitoned the particulars about
the overclocking, like what voltage you were running. If
you were putting 2.1V through it then needing to use
peltiers to keep it from popping, that may have a worse
long-term effect than more modest o'c methods. Having a few
mobile Bartons here, at least two are XP2400-2500 and
overclocked past 2.3GHz but if I recall corrrectly, only
needed modest < 1.75V vcore to get there.
Waking from standby is even more likely a power issue, if
the CPU were effected at all as that is a sudden surge,
large change of state.
Would it be less damaging to run at 183x13 as opposed to
200x11? (both give about 2.2Ghz).
I think your math is a bit off, 183 x 13 is not "about
2.2GHz", it's 2.38GHz. Some Mobile Bartons will do 2.38GHz
fine, others need very high vcore to do it, some need very
high-end cooling to do it, but some just won't do it at all,
stably. By stable i mean that you can fire up Prime95
Torture Test and run the Large In-Place FFTs test for
several hours with 0 errors. Not only will this check the
calculations but put the thermal stress on it.
Along this line of thinking, you should remove the heatsink,
clean off old thermal compound and reapply it. If you had
been using silicone based compound (assume any unknown
compound that doesn't specify it's composition, is silicone
based) then degraded thermal compound could be one problem,
though probably not the only problem as it wouldn't effect
turning on or coming out of a sleep state where the CPU was
cool at the time.
Depends on what is wrong. Generarlly speaking if your
memory contacts are good/clean, if your northbridge is well
cooled, you should retain stability at the higher FSB speed
and be able to use it. However, all else being equal,
adding these non-CPU variables in means that inevitably if
"X" # of MHz is stable, it'd be ever-moreso at the lower FSB
and higher multiplier.
Or is it strictly the speed that's the
most taxing? I guess I'll just keep tuning it down and see if there's a
point where the issue stops.
Depends on what the specific problem is. If it's power, the
total MHz and the vcore needed to get there are most
sigificant. However, power IS regulated down to supply the
northbridge and memory too, so if those subcircircuits are
effected, you also have need to lower their speeds (lower
FSB and memory bus) to regain their stability.
In other words, if you had a new motherboard and/or new PSU
of the same quality (since different motherboards will vary
+- a few % on how far they can o'c a given part) you would
most likely be able to run that CPU at same speed you had
all along.
All of this is rather beside the point though, that because
you have the ability to adjust these settings you should do
so and chech which has an effect.
Set the FSB and memory bus to 200 again (Or whatever it was
at previously as o'c) and test it with memtest86 (Or
memtest86+) while the multiplier is adjusted lower, like
around 8X such that it's so low you effectively isolate the
FSB... goal NOT being to see if CPU is stable but rather to
remove it from the equation altogether and only have the
stress on the FSB and memory for the memtest testing.
If memtest runs ok for several hours, lower the FSB and
memory bus to (always keep memory bus set to synchronous,
100% of FSB), then run memtest86 again. The reason for
this is that when you lower the memory bus the bios will
automagically set tighter memory timings. The alternative
to the 2nd run of memtest would be to observe the specific
timings which passed testing at 200MHz memory bus and
manually setting same timings at the lowered memory bus
speed.
Does your board even allow multiplier settings over 12.5X?
I mean, does it toggle the 5th multipler bit or will setting
13X just result in 5X?
You might also examine your board for failing capacitors,
and touch-test them while running the Prime95 torture test-
if any around the CPU feel more than moderately warm, you
should consider lowering the vcore a little then whatever
CPU speed reduction is necessary to retain stability at the
lower vcore. That is, assuming you want to prolong the life
of the motherboard. If the capacitors are already bulging
though, it's a bit too late for that.
You have made multiple changes to your system, you might
consider reverting back to the prior configuration then
retesting after making each change in turn (referring back
to the opening power about power, memory and video changes).
Too many variables at this point really, as mentioned
throughout my post you need to isolate these systematically
to find the fault. I'm sure I've overlooked a few things
but this post is already too long so I leave it as-is till
you try a few things.
I'm not so sure your need is to just reduce CPU speed to "X"
# of Mhz, except maybe within context of a degrading
motherboard or if the power supply is struggling, BUT if I
were forced to choose, I'd keep the FSB higher if it'll stay
stable.