Wait just a pixel-pickin' moment here....

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jumm
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J

Jumm

One guy, Ralf, is saying it's possible to use Vuescan on a minolta
scanner. I support him from the proof of his posted work, which is an
outstanding example of German industrial art photography. They are
beautifully displayed in a lossy jpeg format for the web. I don't
understand how Don or WHY Don insists that these images are meaningless.
The original files must be quite a bit more substantial, to end up with
such large and beautiful web images. Don claims you can't judge the
quality of a scan from such small and heavily post-processed files. I'm
still waiting to see some of Don's big wonderful raw images posted, so
we can see whether he's full of it. I'm beginning to suspect he's one of
those fuss budgets that will never be done fussing and never produces
images of any worth. After all, this scanning and photography business
is about producing images! Images that are the best that these scanners
and software can produce. I think Ralf's stand right up there with the
best.
Also, look back over the last two or three days worth of posts on the
"single pixel line" thread. The overwhelming majority of posts are
attacks from Don and many others, against some "vuescan clique" that
seems to be loosely represented by one or two people at most. Clique?
I'd say the anti vuescaners are guilty of a little Feudian projection
here.

Don says I set up "straw dogs" and take pot shots at "the messenger",
yet if real bullets were flying they'd all be coming from the
anti-vuescanners. Yet what is their ammunition? A lot of technical
malarkey (especially from Don) and no substance in the form of results
from all this techno babel. When will we see proof that you can scan a
slide, or recognise a decent image if one hit you in the eye.
I think Ralf has a right to feel frustrated and insulted that someone
like Don implies
that anyone using Vuescan who claims good results is a liar or a slob,
to put it succinctly.
I await Don's proof that he can scan his way out of a paper bag, but
I'll probably have to settle for more slippery obfuscation from the
master of subpixel flatulence.
Jim
 
Jumm said:
One guy, Ralf, is saying it's possible to use Vuescan on a minolta
scanner. I support him from the proof of his posted work, which is an
outstanding example of German industrial art photography. They are
beautifully displayed in a lossy jpeg format for the web. I don't
understand how Don or WHY Don insists that these images are meaningless.
Click to expand...

2 reasons.
1. The original poster in that thread stated quite clearly that he had a
problem with lines that were a *SINGLE PIXEL* wide. As you have noted,
the original scans are much larger than the web images, and consequently
must have been downsampled to achieve the web image. There are *MANY*
downsampling methods which will entirely eliminate *SINGLE PIXEL* lines
in the process, and most of those remaining will significantly reduce
the impact of single line defects in the downsampled result. Had either
you OR Ralph actually bothered to examine the results posted by the
originator of the thread you would have noted that the reported defects
were actually quite limited, unacceptable to the critical viewer but
certainly low and consequently *ANY* downsampling to the degree that
Ralph demonstrated would have reduced their level to less than the JPEG
algorithms that the web images were encoded with were capable of
replicating. Consequently the images posted by Ralph were totally
meaningless in the context of the thread, no matter how technically
excellent they were in other contexts.

2. The original poster stated quite clearly that the problem arose in
one configuration of the Minolta scanner - when the grain dissolver was
enabled - and that he was achieving perfectly satisfactory results with
the scanner in other modes, EVEN FROM VUESCAN. Since Ralph failed to
provide any information as to whether his "evidence" was achieved in
this mode, or any information on how he obtained them at all, they are
completely irrelevant and meaningless to the thread - and would continue
to be even if he posted them in their original full resolution, no
matter what their technical excellence may be in other contexts!

Finally, as has been pointed out in that original thread, many people
(including the author of Vuescan himself) have on occasions claimed
perfect operation of Vuescan with that particular Minolta scanner - only
to later rescind that statement when attempting to replicate the exact
conditions in which others have reported problems. Consequently
claiming that the combination "works for me" without any qualification
whatsoever and presenting un-supportive evidence, when the original
poster has already stated that it also works for him under certain
conditions, is completely irrelevant in the context!

So that's three reasons... not the comfy chair!!!
 
There are *MANY*
downsampling methods which will entirely eliminate *SINGLE PIXEL* lines
in the process, and most of those remaining will significantly reduce
the impact of single line defects in the downsampled result. ....
Consequently the images posted by Ralph were totally
meaningless in the context of the thread, no matter how technically
excellent they were in other contexts.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid he just doesn't get it, Kennedy. I tried explaining the
very same thing, but it appears that this particular specimen exhibits
a quite unique ratio of bone versus brain tissue... ;o)

Don.
 
There you go again Don, with the insults. You're a smug one ain't you?
I've got enough brain matter to see that you evade any challenge to
produce an image that compares in quality with what Ralf has produced. I
don't care if you are a programmer or even invented the internet, the
final test of a scanner and software is to come up with a good image.
Ralf's scanner in combination with Vuescan, can do the job. You can't
possibly be saying that starting with a poorly captured image, and poor
scanning technique and equipment, or even large amounts of
post-processing, you are able to come up with an image equal to those
produced by Ralf? I'm still waiting to see if YOU can walk the
walk,[email protected].
Jim
 
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