Vuescan, Nikon 8000, and 'large' panoramics ...internal programming question

  • Thread starter Thread starter Robert Young
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Robert Young

I have seen a couple of posts regarding the inability of the Coolscan
8000 to scan 6x12 or 6x17 because the "fine" movement motor only
convers 80-90 mm of linear movement. There is also a limit to the
on-board memory of the Coolscan to contend with. I have the following
question for anyone who knows the "innards" of the Coolscan and/or
Vuescan.

If one modified the Vuescan code with a specific routine just for 6x12
or 6x17, could the following be done.

1) Scan the first part of the image as the largest image you can get (
I forget the max size the 8000 will scan but it somewhere in the
6x7-9 range).
2. Preview and make "some" adjustments to the first "scan" as needed (
gain, etc)
2) Automatically transfer that image to the computer with a temp name.
3) Use the coarse motor adjustment to automatically advance "someplace
" near where the first can left off..say 80% of the way.
4) Perform another scan "overlapping" the first, using as many of the
first image's scan settings as are "settable" from the software
interface ( gain, focus, etc), so the two images "match" as closely as
possible in scan characteristics.
5) Automatically transfer this image to a second temp file on the
computer.
6) Automatically combine the two images "on the computer" and display
the result (much like the new Photoshop CS can in its "stitching"
option), or just save the 2 images so that one can match them with PS
8 manually. Since the two scans are performed w/out moving the
negative, the "short" dimension is fixed, and only adjustments on the
"long" dimension should be needed to match up the images. Also, since
the scans are performed immediately and successively, many of the
scanner settings and parameters should be the same for both images (
drifting and recalibration changes are removed as a worry).

Now you may not be able to do some functions ( such as the crop before
final scan) from the basic scan software since the entire image is not
available at one time, but many of these adjustments could be done
"later" in PS or a similar program.

I am just floating a few thoughts to see if it is possible or not from
a technical standpoint given the existing hardware on the Coolscan.
 
I have seen a couple of posts regarding the inability of the Coolscan
8000 to scan 6x12 or 6x17 because the "fine" movement motor only
convers 80-90 mm of linear movement. There is also a limit to the
on-board memory of the Coolscan to contend with. I have the following
question for anyone who knows the "innards" of the Coolscan and/or
Vuescan.

If one modified the Vuescan code with a specific routine just for 6x12
or 6x17, could the following be done.

1) Scan the first part of the image as the largest image you can get (
I forget the max size the 8000 will scan but it somewhere in the
6x7-9 range).
2. Preview and make "some" adjustments to the first "scan" as needed (
gain, etc)
2) Automatically transfer that image to the computer with a temp name.
3) Use the coarse motor adjustment to automatically advance "someplace
" near where the first can left off..say 80% of the way.
4) Perform another scan "overlapping" the first, using as many of the
first image's scan settings as are "settable" from the software
interface ( gain, focus, etc), so the two images "match" as closely as
possible in scan characteristics.
5) Automatically transfer this image to a second temp file on the
computer.
6) Automatically combine the two images "on the computer" and display
the result (much like the new Photoshop CS can in its "stitching"
option), or just save the 2 images so that one can match them with PS
8 manually. Since the two scans are performed w/out moving the
negative, the "short" dimension is fixed, and only adjustments on the
"long" dimension should be needed to match up the images. Also, since
the scans are performed immediately and successively, many of the
scanner settings and parameters should be the same for both images (
drifting and recalibration changes are removed as a worry).

Now you may not be able to do some functions ( such as the crop before
final scan) from the basic scan software since the entire image is not
available at one time, but many of these adjustments could be done
"later" in PS or a similar program.

I am just floating a few thoughts to see if it is possible or not from
a technical standpoint given the existing hardware on the Coolscan.
Click to expand...
Well I do something similar with 35mm panos on the Minolta 5400.
I just scan the first part of the image with all the exposure settings
locked. I then have to remove the holder and slide the film to get
the rest of the image within the frame. I then scan the second part with
the same settings. Both images are opened in Photoshop and then one is
dragged over the other after expanding the size of the canvas. By
setting the new layer to "difference" it is a simple matter to move
the new image so that they overlap properly. I then flatten, crop and
proceed with the rest of my image editing.
Not automatic, but it only adds about 5 minutes to the workflow.
 
I am probably going to have to do the same thing. I am seriously
thinking about a Fuji G617 or a GX617 as an early (very early) XMAS
present after having shot with a Hasselblad XPan for awhile. A 35mm
sized pano is nice, a 6cmx17cm would be fantastic, but scanning
something that big is the problem. Doing it in parts is the only
current alternative unless you have a drum scanner in your closet. It
would be nice is someone could add support to some scanning software
to work around the 8000's hardware limitations.
 
Robert Young said:
I am probably going to have to do the same thing. I am seriously
thinking about a Fuji G617 or a GX617 as an early (very early) XMAS
present after having shot with a Hasselblad XPan for awhile. A 35mm
sized pano is nice, a 6cmx17cm would be fantastic, but scanning
something that big is the problem. Doing it in parts is the only
current alternative unless you have a drum scanner in your closet. It
would be nice is someone could add support to some scanning software
to work around the 8000's hardware limitations.
Click to expand...

I think you can do it in VueScan. Vuescan has settings for the area scanned,
so you'd just have to set them manually for the amount of overlap you need.
You'd still have to stitch them together, of course. (Truth in advertising:
I haven't tried it.)

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
 
The message <[email protected]>
I think you can do it in VueScan. Vuescan has settings for the area scanned,
so you'd just have to set them manually for the amount of overlap you need.
You'd still have to stitch them together, of course. (Truth in advertising:
I haven't tried it.)
Click to expand...
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
Click to expand...

If somebody wants to lend me a Nikon 8000 I'll give it a try with Vuescan ;-)
I'm using the ubiquitous Epson 3200 for my 617 scans whilst I wait for the
price of Imacon's to drop!
 
Gavin Shaw said:
If somebody wants to lend me a Nikon 8000 I'll give it a try with Vuescan ;-)
I'm using the ubiquitous Epson 3200 for my 617 scans whilst I wait for the
price of Imacon's to drop!
Click to expand...

If you want to send me a 617 frame, I'll scan it for you on my Nikon 8000.
(That is a serious offer.)

Alternatively, I suspect that the Epson 4870 will bridge enough of the gap
between the 3200 and the 8000, that most 617 users won't really want to
bother with one of the expensive scanners. (IMHO, I think, and all that.)

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
 
You were correct.

Through judicious choice ( or should I say 'fudging') of offsets and
frames ( there may be a better way, but I am still researching Vuescan
at this time), you can cover the entire Coolscan 8000 FH-869G (120/220
strip holder with glass) carrier with Vuescan , but it takes 3 scans
to do it (allowing some overlap between the images).

You can use the Photoshop CS "photomerge" option to stitch them into
the original strip.... in my test I used a strip nearly 19 cm long
with 3-6x6 negatives + the spacing between them. It takes awhile, but
it does make for some interesting possibilities in processing 6x17
panoramics from the Fuji G617/GX617 series of cameras with the
Coolscan. CS does a good job of matching up the seams where the images
merge. You don't see any artifacts at all in the final image.

I'm glad to know this since I already have the Coolscan, and honestly
do not have space on my desk for another scanner! I also like the
final image at 8,700 x 29,500 pixels ( I refuse to figure out how many
Mpixels that equates to..my desk calculator doen't go that high).

Now if I can afford the Fuji.........
 
The message <[email protected]>
If you want to send me a 617 frame, I'll scan it for you on my Nikon 8000.
(That is a serious offer.)
Click to expand...
Alternatively, I suspect that the Epson 4870 will bridge enough of the gap
between the 3200 and the 8000, that most 617 users won't really want to
bother with one of the expensive scanners. (IMHO, I think, and all that.)
Click to expand...
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
Click to expand...

I'm tempted to take you up on the offer. I've plenty less than perfectly
exposed 617 strips so there would be no hassle with returning it, losing
it in the post, etc.

Do you have a carrier for the 8000 that would take the strip? I expect
sagging could be a problem with the narrow DOF. For the 3200 I ended up
making a 0.5mm aluminium sheet mask to stretch the film strip over to
keep it off the glass.

The first 4870 review I've seen does suggest it may be a modest but
significant improvement on the 3200. Maybe time to trade up my 13 month
old 3200!
 
Gavin Shaw said:
I'm tempted to take you up on the offer. I've plenty less than perfectly
exposed 617 strips so there would be no hassle with returning it, losing
it in the post, etc.

Do you have a carrier for the 8000 that would take the strip? I expect
sagging could be a problem with the narrow DOF. For the 3200 I ended up
making a 0.5mm aluminium sheet mask to stretch the film strip over to
keep it off the glass.
Click to expand...

I have both the plain carrier and the glass carrier. The glass carrier comes
with 0.5mm (or so) cardboard sheet masks for single frames of various sizes,
although not one for 6x17. But cutting one isn't a problem. (My copy of the
plain carrier doesn't grab the film as tightly as it should, so maybe I'll
use this as an excuse for cleaning the rubber parts that grip the film...)

Drop me a note at the email address in the header.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
 
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