Vuescan: can't save raw files when scan from preview is used on Minolta 5400 or Nikon LS5000.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ed Lusby
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E

Ed Lusby

Vuescan is working fairly well with the Minolta 5400 scanner, except
that raw files are not saved when "scan from preview" is used.
Raw files are saved when scan from preview is turned off.
Also, when performing raw scans only, for some reason the scan image
is processed and cleaned, even though the raw scan isn't. This is
misleading. How about having Vuescan just show the unprocessed raw
file?
Finally, anyone know how to clean raw scans with Vuescan? Or better
yet, how do you clean during the original raw scan? I thought if I
did 64bit RGBI raw scans that I could open the file in Vuescan and
apply a cleaning filter, but the cleaning option isn't available in
this mode.

Ed Lusby
 
Ed said:
anyone know how to clean raw scans with Vuescan? Or better
yet, how do you clean during the original raw scan? I thought if I
did 64bit RGBI raw scans that I could open the file in Vuescan and
apply a cleaning filter, but the cleaning option isn't available in
this mode.
Click to expand...

The philosophy behind the raw scans seems to be that you'll have to do
everything by yourself - not only the color orrection but also the
cleaning. This leaves you with a 64-bit RGBI image, of which the I
(Infrared) channel contains the info about the defects. You might try my
Photoshop actions for dust and scratches removal with RGBI files:
http://www.vandervegte.com/Actions.html. Please note that on raw files
you'll need to use the slide version, even if you're scanning negatives.
 
The one redeeming feature of the Minolta software is that you can use
ICE on raw files, if you don't mind waiting forever. I'd like to do
the same with Vuescan's faster scanning (cleaning can be separated
from grain dissolver). I think this would be a preferable workflow
since I can see no loss of sharpness even at high magnification with
either ICE or Vuescan's infrared cleaning.

Ed Lusby
 
Ed Lusby said:
Vuescan is working fairly well with the Minolta 5400 scanner, except
that raw files are not saved when "scan from preview" is used.
Raw files are saved when scan from preview is turned off.
Click to expand...

You can select between Raw output with Scan, with Preview or with Save
on Output tab.
Also, when performing raw scans only, for some reason the scan image
is processed and cleaned, even though the raw scan isn't. This is
misleading. How about having Vuescan just show the unprocessed raw
file?
Click to expand...

Why should this be misleading? You always have the option to save a
scan even if you turned auto save off. A non-raw scan is processed by
definition. However, you can switch off most processing individually.
But you most probably would not like to view a gamma 1.0 image since it
is very dark...
Finally, anyone know how to clean raw scans with Vuescan? Or better
yet, how do you clean during the original raw scan?
Click to expand...

If Raw file is output with Scan or with Preview no infrared cleaning or
grain reduction is applied. If it is output with Save both IR clean and
grain reduction are applied if checked in filter tab. See manual on
'output tab', 'Raw output with'.
I thought if I
did 64bit RGBI raw scans that I could open the file in Vuescan and
apply a cleaning filter, but the cleaning option isn't available in
this mode.
Click to expand...

It should be. Are you sure you have set Bits per pixel on input tab to
either Auto or 64 bit RGBI and Raw file type to 64 Bit RGBI? Do your
saved raw images contain an alpha channel?
 
Erik Krause said:
You can select between Raw output with Scan, with Preview or with Save
on Output tab.


Why should this be misleading? You always have the option to save a
scan even if you turned auto save off. A non-raw scan is processed by
definition. However, you can switch off most processing individually.
But you most probably would not like to view a gamma 1.0 image since it
is very dark...


If Raw file is output with Scan or with Preview no infrared cleaning or
grain reduction is applied. If it is output with Save both IR clean and
grain reduction are applied if checked in filter tab. See manual on
'output tab', 'Raw output with'.


It should be. Are you sure you have set Bits per pixel on input tab to
either Auto or 64 bit RGBI and Raw file type to 64 Bit RGBI? Do your
saved raw images contain an alpha channel?
Click to expand...

All good tips! Also, if save raw "at save", rotation and cropping will
be incorporated.

Two further points:

1. Using ICE without grain dissolver (only possible with Vuescan) on
Kodachrome, I was getting artifacts at sharp light/dark transitions.
With Grain Dissolver, they are gone.

2. Vuescan's cleaning is no where near as complete as ICE, regardless
of setting. So for me, for now, I'm acquiring my Vuescan "raw file",
through Minolta Scan Utility, in the form of "16bit linear" output,
with ICE/GD enabled.

I've emailed with Ed Hamrick regarding the cleaning quality, and at
his request, have sent sample 64 bit raw file. No news yet, been 3~4
weeks...
 
Erik,
My responses below.
Ed Lusby

You can select between Raw output with Scan, with Preview or with Save
on Output tab.
Click to expand...

The feature doesn't work when "Scan from preview" is used, but does
work as advertised when you do both a prescan and full scan.
Why should this be misleading? You always have the option to save a
scan even if you turned auto save off. A non-raw scan is processed by
definition. However, you can switch off most processing individually.
But you most probably would not like to view a gamma 1.0 image since it
is very dark...
Click to expand...

It's misleading because when only saving a raw scan, you want to see
the raw scan image, not a processed one. I thought for a while that I
was seeing an accurate representation of the raw scan.
If Raw file is output with Scan or with Preview no infrared cleaning or
grain reduction is applied. If it is output with Save both IR clean and
grain reduction are applied if checked in filter tab. See manual on
'output tab', 'Raw output with'.
Click to expand...

I understand this.
It should be. Are you sure you have set Bits per pixel on input tab to
either Auto or 64 bit RGBI and Raw file type to 64 Bit RGBI? Do your
saved raw images contain an alpha channel?
Click to expand...

Tonight the cleaning option is available. I'm not sure what I did
differently. Anyway, the problem now is that in addition to cleaning
the file, it processes the color, which is not what I want it to do. I
don't see any way to prevent it from processing color and contrast. I
just want it to clean. I guess I'm stuck with the Minolta software for
my desired workflow.

Ed Lusby
 
On 3 Dec 2004 17:59:51 -0800, (e-mail address removed) (Mendel
Leisk) wrote:

I think Vuescan's cleaning works quite well. I don't think I could
distinguish a scan using ICE or Vuescan's cleaning method. And I
never have seen artefacts at light/dark transitions.
Ed Lusby
 
Ed Lusby said:
On 3 Dec 2004 17:59:51 -0800, (e-mail address removed) (Mendel
Leisk) wrote:

I think Vuescan's cleaning works quite well. I don't think I could
distinguish a scan using ICE or Vuescan's cleaning method. And I
never have seen artefacts at light/dark transitions.
Ed Lusby
Click to expand...

I just looked for some samples I could of posted, but looks like I
didn't back them up prior to recent format I did. If I get energetic I
could rescan some. For now, anecdotally, and this is with Elite 5400:

With relatively clean, recently processed slide film, Vuescan cleaning
is indistinguishable from Minolta with ICE/GD. But, for older slides,
with drag marks and heavy dirt, it just wasn't cleaning thoroughly and
seamlessly enough. My experience, ymmv. Curiously, going from
Vuescan's light cleaning to medium or heavy makes very little
difference.

The artifacts I noticed at dark/light transitions were with
Kodachromes I have. I understand there are several variations in
Kodachrome, and perhaps the processor is a factor as well. What I
observed (at 100% zoom) was where bright regions of the image sharply
transitioned to dark, there was a light feathery double image along
that edge, without the grain dissolver. With grain dissolver, the edge
was clean.
 
Ed Lusby said:
The feature doesn't work when "Scan from preview" is used,
Click to expand...

Strange. Workes here.
It's misleading because when only saving a raw scan, you want to see
the raw scan image, not a processed one. I thought for a while that I
was seeing an accurate representation of the raw scan.
Click to expand...

Why do you want to view raw data? Raw was intended for archiving and
for further processing in vuescan only. Raw has no meaning for human
perception.

[...]
Tonight the cleaning option is available. I'm not sure what I did
differently. Anyway, the problem now is that in addition to cleaning
the file, it processes the color, which is not what I want it to do. I
don't see any way to prevent it from processing color and contrast. I
just want it to clean.
Click to expand...

Select Raw output with Save and you get a Raw but cleaned image. You
can do that even from already scanned Raw files if you check 'Enable
Raw from disk' on prefs tab.

Or set Media Type to Image (input tab) and Color balance to None (color
tab). The only thing that happens then is that the colors are converted
to the output color space. If you want to avoid that just set output
color space to Device RGB. Then only a conversion to gamma 2.2 (or 1.8
on Mac) is performed.
 
Mendel Leisk wrote:

I've emailed with Ed Hamrick regarding the cleaning quality, and at
his request, have sent sample 64 bit raw file. No news yet, been 3~4
weeks...
Click to expand...

You will have to ask Ed for a receipt confirmation. Last time when I
sent him files and didn't hear from him for several weeks, he claimed he
never received my e-mail. Since then I always ask him to confirm having
received my files, which works well.
 
Hi Wilfred,

Ed did respond, to say he got the files. And he just emailed me a link
to a beta, supposedly with improved cleaning. Unfortunately, not much
better, as far as I can see. I'll just stick with Minolta Scan Utility
and 16bit linear output for first step, then scan-from-disk thru
Vuescan with this file.
 
Hi Wilfred,

Ed did respond, to say he got the files. And he just emailed me a link
to a beta, supposedly with improved cleaning. Unfortunately, not much
better, as far as I can see. I'll just stick with Minolta Scan Utility
and 16bit linear output for first step, then scan-from-disk thru
Vuescan with this file.
 
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