Visual C++ Toolkit 2005??

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Will there be a Visual C++ Toolkit 2005?
I really appreciated that there was the Visual C++ 2003 Optimising Compiler
distributed for free in the 2003 Toolkit.
Will Microsoft continue with this toolkit? Or will it be mainly focused on
the 'Express' edition of Visual C++?
 
There is no final decision on this yet, but we currently feel that Express
should largely address the customer base we did the toolkit for.

Feedback on this, as always, is very welcome.

Ronald Laeremans
Visual C++ Group Program Manager
 
Hi Ronald,

I'm not currently a user of the toolkit, but, that said, here's how I view
the issue:

The toolkit sort of catered to two different kinds of users:
- Beginners and Enthusiasts who possibly couldn't afford (or didn't need)
the full VS.NET suite and used the toolkit alongside VC++.NET standard
- Developer teams using wanting to use it in a build server for VC++
projects without installing (and licensing) the full VS.NET (similar to how
many of us use just the .NET framework SDK for this purpose).

Just leaving the express SKU certainly would fill the needs of the first
group, but possibly not the second. That said, I don't know that the second
group is large enough to warrant the extra effort (plus considering that it
brings in no revenue by itself either)

Just my thoughts..
 
I use the toolkit in conjunction with the Windows Core SDK because it keeps
my code light and helps me to see more clearly the interactions between my
code and the Windows environment. For me, the automatic features obscure
problems and make it difficult to debug.

I've had good success using the Windows debugging tool in this environment
as well, although this is not possible in a multithreaded standard library
project because Microsoft omitted the libcpmtd.lib file from the toolkit
distribution.
 
I kinda agree with you, the express editions seem promising and I have no
doubt it will help me out alot and I believe would be a great supplanting
product for the 2003 VC++ Toolkit, but what I really like about the toolkit
is that it was free, the express editions arent (however are very cheap in
comparison). To be honest, even if the express editions are really reall
cheap, someone like me (a student, who works only part time/casual and has no
spare money at the end of the week, [like $10]), would prefer the really
direct way of downloading it, installing it and using it immediately without
installing any prerequisites [as the beta requires]. Sure the GUI is neat and
all, but Im quite proficient with the command line arguments of the compiler
and its no inconvenience for me to not have a GUI interface. I mainly use the
compiler for testing purposes and migrating a cumbersome older project (in
VC++ 6) to the .NET Framework. Most of the code has been reformatted and
reformed appropriately to take advantage of CLR, but to be honest, I dont
want to pay for something when all Im doing is just recompiling something
again without the need or use of any GUI.
 
Ammendment:
I dont want to pay for something when all Im doing is just recompiling
something
again without the need or use of any GUI. And especially since that task is
already efficiently done by an already free-and-reliable-product ie the VC++
2003 Toolkit.

and FYI: the recoding of the existing unmanaged code was done by another
person who had the full Visual Studio Professional 2003, he didnt finish it
due to other commitments but he got most of it done, so im now finishing it.
So i guess the express editions would do me more good than the toolkit in
that theatre, but in complete honesty, ive never paid much for microsoft
products (except for Windows and Visual C++ 6), cause I mainly use free
software, open office.org, altova XMLSPY home edition, paint.net. I use the
word, excel, visio, and powerpoint viewers to view and print documents i make
at school etc, Lavasoft Ad-aware, a free version of Grisoft anti-virus,
Borland C# Builder personal non-commercial license, bloodshed C++, the
ASP.NET web matrix and all the start kits, basically, anything thats free and
useful to my studies and school work, Ive usually got it installed, since $10
to spare every week doesnt get you much.

Also, in more complete honesty, I think Microsoft charges too much for alot
of things. So in my opinion, anything thats free from Microsoft is usually
bound to be superceded by a product that you have to pay for, like no offense
or anything, but in many cases due to my tight budget, ive had to look for
other solutions, such as using another OS or even open source products (which
i dont really like because of lack of centralised or official support behind
most open projects, and the fact that there are so many versions of them ,
like linux for example, there are more than 50 types of linux distros and
they all have different authors and do different stuff, so to evaluate what
each distro could do for you, you have to go to someone else to get help, or
familiarise yourself with different commands and GUIS. its pretty annoying.)
 
Ammendment:
I dont want to pay for something when all Im doing is just recompiling
something
again without the need or use of any GUI. And especially since that task is
already efficiently done by an already free-and-reliable-product ie the VC++
2003 Toolkit.

and FYI: the recoding of the existing unmanaged code was done by another
person who had the full Visual Studio Professional 2003, he didnt finish it
due to other commitments but he got most of it done, so im now finishing it.
So i guess the express editions would do me more good than the toolkit in
that theatre, but in complete honesty, ive never paid much for microsoft
products (except for Windows and Visual C++ 6), cause I mainly use free
software, open office.org, altova XMLSPY home edition, paint.net. I use the
word, excel, visio, and powerpoint viewers to view and print documents i make
at school etc, Lavasoft Ad-aware, a free version of Grisoft anti-virus,
Borland C# Builder personal non-commercial license, bloodshed C++, the
ASP.NET web matrix and all the start kits, basically, anything thats free and
useful to my studies and school work, Ive usually got it installed, since $10
to spare every week doesnt get you much.

Also, in more complete honesty, I think Microsoft charges too much for alot
of things. So in my opinion, anything thats free from Microsoft is usually
bound to be superceded by a product that you have to pay for, like no offense
or anything, but in many cases due to my tight budget, ive had to look for
other solutions, such as using another OS or even open source products (which
i dont really like because of lack of centralised or official support behind
most open projects, and the fact that there are so many versions of them ,
like linux for example, there are more than 50 types of linux distros and
they all have different authors and do different stuff, so to evaluate what
each distro could do for you, you have to go to someone else to get help, or
familiarise yourself with different commands and GUIS. its pretty annoying.)
 
Ammendment:
I dont want to pay for something when all Im doing is just recompiling
something
again without the need or use of any GUI. And especially since that task is
already efficiently done by an already free-and-reliable-product ie the VC++
2003 Toolkit.

and FYI: the recoding of the existing unmanaged code was done by another
person who had the full Visual Studio Professional 2003, he didnt finish it
due to other commitments but he got most of it done, so im now finishing it.
So i guess the express editions would do me more good than the toolkit in
that theatre, but in complete honesty, ive never paid much for microsoft
products (except for Windows and Visual C++ 6), cause I mainly use free
software, open office.org, altova XMLSPY home edition, paint.net. I use the
word, excel, visio, and powerpoint viewers to view and print documents i make
at school etc, Lavasoft Ad-aware, a free version of Grisoft anti-virus,
Borland C# Builder personal non-commercial license, bloodshed C++, the
ASP.NET web matrix and all the start kits, basically, anything thats free and
useful to my studies and school work, Ive usually got it installed, since $10
to spare every week doesnt get you much.

Also, in more complete honesty, I think Microsoft charges too much for alot
of things. So in my opinion, anything thats free from Microsoft is usually
bound to be superceded by a product that you have to pay for, like no offense
or anything, but in many cases due to my tight budget, ive had to look for
other solutions, such as using another OS or even open source products (which
i dont really like because of lack of centralised or official support behind
most open projects, and the fact that there are so many versions of them ,
like linux for example, there are more than 50 types of linux distros and
they all have different authors and do different stuff, so to evaluate what
each distro could do for you, you have to go to someone else to get help, or
familiarise yourself with different commands and GUIS. its pretty annoying.)
 
miffy900 said:
I kinda agree with you, the express editions seem promising and I have no
doubt it will help me out alot and I believe would be a great supplanting
product for the 2003 VC++ Toolkit, but what I really like about the toolkit
is that it was free, the express editions arent (however are very cheap in
comparison). To be honest, even if the express editions are really reall
cheap, someone like me (a student, who works only part time/casual and has no
spare money at the end of the week, [like $10]), would prefer the really
direct way of downloading it, installing it and using it immediately without
installing any prerequisites [as the beta requires]. Sure the GUI is neat and
all, but Im quite proficient with the command line arguments of the compiler
and its no inconvenience for me to not have a GUI interface. I mainly use the
compiler for testing purposes and migrating a cumbersome older project (in
VC++ 6) to the .NET Framework. Most of the code has been reformatted and
reformed appropriately to take advantage of CLR, but to be honest, I dont
want to pay for something when all Im doing is just recompiling something
again without the need or use of any GUI.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. Are you a student at a college or university?
We have agreements with a _very_ large number of academic institutions t
allow them to distribute for free any part of MSDN Academic (which is
basically close to the same as MSDN Universal) to their students and
staff. Sadly many institutions seem to be really great at hiding that
opportunity, so I would encourage you to ask around.

Ronald
 
to people at Microsoft...
no budget to "test run" software,
never take part in "refund if you don't like"
prefer full functional capability of results, but can live with
"crippled" path to get there, ie. full library, full compile, but no
gui [use command prompt], no fantastic optimization
Code:
--------------------
s

How about this approach [like Adobe uses]
Download free functional capablity,but lacking gui and optimization
go to MSDN website, upload code, download compiled program
- at the website you have FULL capaiblities to try out
including major optimization compiling.

Now THAT's a test drive.
After all, one must learn two things - C++ AND IDE tool

- Robert -
 
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