Vista support for legacy applications

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I have wasted HOURS trying to find the answer to this question; hoping this
is the place.
I need to know if Vista will run DOS applications, specifically Paradox for
DOS v. 4.0.

I am in the unfortunate position of having to support and maintain a large
amount of legacy code for PdoxDOS and it is not humanly possible to port it
all to something modern (or at least less obsolete) by the time all new
computers start shipping with Vista preinstalled.
 
Download the customer preview of Vista

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/preview.mspx

Install it on a test computer and test your application. This is what the
CPP program is for. Read the disclaimer carefully. Do not install Vista RC1
on a production computer. It is a Beta program Only install it on a computer
that you don't mind losing everything that is on the computer.
 
Maggie said:
What I want is Microsoft's OFFICIAL position on DOS applications.
Click to expand...

"May they rest in peace."

--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
 
I still have my 4.0 disks and never would have though it would run under XP.
You a looking at an database application that goes back to 1992/93 time
frame and even if there is an 'Official' position issued by Microsoft I
would test the application under Vista. Have you tried posting to the Vista
newsgroup (microsoft.public.windows.vista.general)?

JS
 
The 32-bit Vista version will run most 16-bit applications in compatibility
mode, but there's no guarantee. The 64-bit vista version will NOT run
16-bit applications.

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
Reply in newsgroup
http://www.fjsmjs.com
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve
neither liberty or security"
 
Maggie said:
What I want is Microsoft's OFFICIAL position on DOS applications.
Click to expand...

That would probably depend on the specific DOS application and any memory
management tricks or facilities the application might have used or require.

In short, the question is probably not answerable the way you've phrased it;
with what you have, the official position would likely come back as "not
supported".

Might work.. might not. They probably won't test it; they simply don't
have time to test everything if the want to ever actually release Vista.

In this unfortunate situation you find yourself in, there is no substitute
for testing it yourself.

Even if you did get a positive response from MS, when a crash occurs, blame
probably won't go far if you don't actually set up a machine or two and see
if it runs or if it explodes.

HTH
-pk
 
Maggie

The Microsoft position for DOS applications would follow the support for the
operating system that the applications were designed for. The support
lifecycle for the last version of DOS that I can find ended on 12/31/2001.

Obsolete Products.
http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifeobsoleteproducts

It's up to the author of the application to keep pace with the current state
of hardware and operating systems. I see some information for Paradox that
mentions a version 11. There is some good information on this page:

Paradox Community.
http://www.thedbcommunity.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=43

There are many DOS based programs that were able to run in Windows XP. I
would follow Kerry's advice and try running the application on the latest
version of the Vista beta.

There is also the Compatibility Mode that can be used for Windows versions
all the way back to Windows 95. This compatibility mode option is also
available in Windows Vista.

Windows Vista CTP.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/default.aspx

Just as an aside. One of the biggest complaints from Windows users, over the
years, has been the bloat in just about every version of Windows. One of the
main causes of the bloat is the support for legacy applications. At some
point, just about every program becomes obsolete.
 
Thank you all for your responses, especailly Ronnie for the detailed response.

Of course Paradox is not listed in the obsolete products since it wasn't
made by Microsoft. Paradox 9 is a Paradox for Windows version, which will not
run Paradox for DOS code.

Please correct me if I am wrong: I thought Compatibility Mode was only for
16-bit WINDOWS apps.
 
Maggie
Please correct me if I am wrong: I thought Compatibility Mode was only for
16-bit WINDOWS apps.
Click to expand...

No, 16 bit programs are handled by the Wowexec and NTVDM in XP. This appears
to be the same way that Vista handles these programs since both files are
also present in Vista.

Here is some information originally posted by MVP Wesley Vogel with some
good resources.

<quote>
wowexec.exe is used in conjunction with ntvdm.exe to run old DOS
applications.


[[MS-DOS and 16-bit Windows programs actually run as a Win32 process. The
program that creates the virtual MS-DOS environments for these to run in
(NTVDM.EXE) is a Win32 program. A virtual DOS machine (VDM) is created for
the program, so it thinks that it is running on a machine by itself.
However, the virtual machine is a normal 32-bit Windows NT process and is
subject to the same rules of preemptive multitasking as is other programs.
However, this only applies to MS-DOS programs. ]]


[[To run 16-bit Windows applications, NT uses a VDM that contains an extra
software layer called the Win16 on Win32 (WOW) layer. Although the VDM for
Windows shares some of the code for MS-DOS VDM, all Windows applications
share the same VDM. The reason this is done is to simulate the environment
that 16-bit Windows applications run in. Because Windows applications might
want to communicate with one another, a single VDM is used. Each 16-bit
application runs as a thread of the VDM; however, the WOW layers ensures
that only one of these threads is running at any given time. ]]
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winntas/evaluate/featfun...


[[ntvdm.exe is process that belongs to the Windows 16-bit Virtual Machine.
It provides an environment for a 16-bit process to execute on a 32-bit
platform. ]]
http://www.liutilities.com/products/wintaskspro/processlibrary/ntvdm/


Troubleshooting MS-DOS-based programs in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;314106


How to Troubleshoot 16-Bit Windows Programs in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;314495


If you're running a bunch of old 16-bit programs, take a look at this,
Lots of good 16-bit info here...
Appendix D - Running Nonnative Applications in Windows 2000 Professional
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/Windows2000Pro/reskit/pa...


HOW TO Identify a 16-bit Program in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=320127

</quote>
 
'Maggie' wrote, in part:
| I have wasted HOURS trying to find the answer to this question; hoping
this
| is the place.
| I need to know if Vista will run DOS applications, specifically Paradox
for
| DOS v. 4.0.
_____

Vista (at least RC1) won't even run some Windows XP applications; Adobe
Photoshop Elements 4.0 for one.

Phil Weldon

|I have wasted HOURS trying to find the answer to this question; hoping this
| is the place.
| I need to know if Vista will run DOS applications, specifically Paradox
for
| DOS v. 4.0.
|
| I am in the unfortunate position of having to support and maintain a large
| amount of legacy code for PdoxDOS and it is not humanly possible to port
it
| all to something modern (or at least less obsolete) by the time all new
| computers start shipping with Vista preinstalled.
 
Thanks for the detailed response. I think I may have read some of this
information before and forgotten about it.

Gives me some hope that perhaps my app will work under Vista.

IT guy here says OEMs won't be out with Vista until 3Q '07 so I don't have
to worry about this right away, not to mention he doesn't have a spare
machine for me to install it on -- and I'm certainly not going to use it on
one of my development machines.

Any other thoughts on when the OEMs will be preinstalling it?
 
Is there no way you would consider migrating the database to something
newer?
Also unless there is late breaking news Vista for OEMs like Dell, Gateway
will be early 2007, maybe as soon as late January.

JS
 
For the past 10 years, I have been trying to make the case for moving it to
something newer, like SQL server plus Delphi. It fell on deaf ears until
sevaral months ago (the cheif objector left last summer) but now I do not
have enough time to do it while continuing to maintain and enhance the parts
of the system that are written in Win32. The users do not feel like they are
getting anything for their money if it's not something they see in front of
them, and do not know or care about the back end, which is what remains in
DOS. I am sure most developers can identify with this situation.

I have a part time helper, but he is not qualified to do the port, or take
care of the users daily needs.

If I have not managed to fix it by the time it stops functioning due to
incompatibility with the operating system, I will probably be hanged, stoned
or put in the stockade <g>

Have a nice weekend.
 
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