vista push back article

  • Thread starter Thread starter John Jay Smith
  • Start date Start date
J

John Jay Smith

http://www.wincustomize.com/articles.aspx?aid=125779&c=1

When I started writing this article, I thought I might be a voice in the
wilderness. Since beta 2, I have been privately telling some of my
confidants that Vista's development was not on track for their release
schedule.
By profession I'm a software developer. Specifically a Project Manager.
None of my projects are remotely as large as Windows Vista but it doesn't
take someone with that kind of experience to recognize that Windows Vista is
not where it needs to be in order to ship in good shape at the end of the
year.



More a the link

http://www.wincustomize.com/articles.aspx?aid=125779&c=1
 
You may want to pull back just a bit on your view of the current status of
Vista. In a private conversation I was in today I learned that the
outstanding active bugs are currently in the hundreds, not the thousands,
and that the next build released to testers will show a lot more improvement
over 5472 than most folks here seem to expect. In particular, a lot of the
bugs being reported in 5472 had already been fixed at the time 5472 released
but had not passed QA for a CTP release (testing was still in progress) but
have now been checked into later builds. According to my source, MS is
seriously on track for RC1 this quarter and rtm in November with a product
that will pass QA properly.
 
You may want to pull back just a bit on your view of the current status

who me? I just posted this article as news.. I didnt even read all of it...
not write it... lol

new> newsgroup.. I posted it as news.. not something I wrote
 
Umm Colin,
Are you a MVP?
Jeff

Colin Barnhorst said:
You may want to pull back just a bit on your view of the current status of
Vista. In a private conversation I was in today I learned that the
outstanding active bugs are currently in the hundreds, not the thousands,
and that the next build released to testers will show a lot more
improvement over 5472 than most folks here seem to expect. In particular,
a lot of the bugs being reported in 5472 had already been fixed at the
time 5472 released but had not passed QA for a CTP release (testing was
still in progress) but have now been checked into later builds. According
to my source, MS is seriously on track for RC1 this quarter and rtm in
November with a product that will pass QA properly.
 
I was thinking about that when I was reading all that stuff. People forget
that a "build" isn't necessarily a good indicator of the status of the whole
project. A build is just a build and doesn't tell you a whole lot about the
big picture. And it doesn't tell you much of anything about the next build
either.
 
I have to agree.... gee, a whine from yet another blog/article and reading
between the lines a lot of the problems noted are hardware/software that
"yawn" yet again are non-MS. While Vista may not be totally RC1 ready, nor
was XP or before that W2K according to all the articles that were posted
about those betas at the time. Sure MC needs some work, sure this and that
does but from my source inside MS Canada (gotta love relatives) 5472 though
poo-paahed by *experts* like Thurrot (sp? whatever) is a huge step over the
public beta so who's to say RC1 won't be another big step? It seems 80% of
the griping is over hardware and non-MS software which is not Microsofts
problem (gee, I still remember the howls when I was part of the NT5 program
at the beta2 stage). Put some blame on Microsofts partners, look at ATi or
Nvidia.. how old are their drivers? I know ATi havent released a new Vista
driver since April. Hardware manufacturers are no better (oh we'll just wait
til it's released at let the public be beta testers). I don't deny there's
problems but nor do I think it's as overblown as bloggers say it is. Heck,
MS just gave out thousands of copies to the BlackHat convention and said
"show us the flaws so we can fix it". That says a lot really. I know, many
only post the negative 'cause well I guess that's the way their life is, but
when I see people whining when they're running X2's/dual cores and yet my
lowly XP2800 is running Vista almost as good ( I'd say it's 3-5% slower for
most tasks) as my XP partition (sure I get glitches and oddities but i
forward the results to MS) I can't help but giggle insanely. Darn good for a
beta IMHO.
 
I should have said in general, not meaning the article only. This is
getting to be an interesting ride.
 
Like some MVP's I only list my MVP + specialty when commenting within it
(and I usually forget to then). It is Virtual Machine. I don't happen to
think of myself as an MVP when participating in discussions in areas like
the Vista Shell, etc so I haven't added the sig to my posts generally.
 
Ahh
Fair enough;
With that said; Any ideas on a Virtual machine in Vista?
Tryed VPC2004; hung on install; and same with Vmware Desktop
Jeff
 
"In particular, a lot of the bugs being reported in 5472 had already been
fixed at the time 5472 released but had not passed QA for a CTP release
(testing was still in progress) but have now been checked into later
builds"

They always dish that line of crap as a mantra. That's why they won't list
the bugs fixed as public. They want to throw out meaningless numbers of
bugs fixed which mean nothing.

I wouldn't believe anything they say on Beta chats particularly about bugs
or the stuatus of the Beta. There has been much said that is not true all
last year and this year. The bug count is like Jimmy Buffet's
Margueriteville. It's whatever they want to make up that it is.

That BS is yet another reason why they don't want to make bug fixes and
categories public on Connect.

It's all part of a propaganda machine.What they said wouldn't reassure
anyone. They are in trouble with Vista and they know it. The faster they
have the guts to admit it and quit slapping it together and fully start
fixing problems the better. They are also sacrificing the quality of
functionality in too many areas.

Vista got quite a build up during the foreplay before the Beta started; and
it ain't all that and may never be. It reminds me of the bullshit about
Iraq and freedom that has turned into a systemic board certified death
bathmoney hemorrhage fiasco.

Be sure and ask them why if Device Manager has been around since Windows
95, and it purports to diagnose the health of drivers ***it's totally
worthless for doing that and the Device Team wouldn't get off it's ass to
fix it in Vista even though that's one of the major purposes for Device
Manager. They say it may be fixed in Blackcomb/Vienna/whatever the hell.

And it doesn't really matter what the number of bugs are, it's the quality
and the magnitude of them and their position in the operating system. The
head fake they persistently do on the number of bugs (it should have gotten
through their skulls is not near as significant as what the problems
actually are).

Whatever your source told you, if they shove it out by the purported shedule
they will shove out considerable crap. There are teams there going nuts
over the concessions they are making. It's a huge metaphor for "settleling"
and if they value a quality OS they will hold Vista up for at least three to
five months.

CH
 
MS has already announced on the VPC home page that there will be a VPC 2007
that will be compatible with Vista and that it will be free. VPC 2007 is
hoped to be released shortly after Vista's Date of General Public
Availability (at present, January).

See the first paragraph under Highlights on
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/default.mspx

Virtual Server has already been updated to run on x64 hosts and the virtual
cd/dvd drive can now handle a full dvd image file. I expect VPC 2007 will
benefit from the improvements already made to VS (the work has already been
done once), but no announcement has been made as to specifics.
 
Peter--

Nobody's whining. It's more that we're saying surveys show a lot less
migration to Vista than MSFT was projecting. I am hearing that Vista needs
to be delayed (I have said this for a good while) from MVPs, from developers
who are in the TAP Program as recently as yesterday afternoon over RC1 and
from several people *at MSFT Redmond.

They are having their butts rushed off.

People do not all criticize Windows Vista because lol their life is a
negative. A lot of people were led to believe this was going to be a
paradigm shift and inspired that it would be Jim Allchin's last official
hurrah with Windows after a career that has done as much to influence
computers on the planet as anyone's. We want it to be much better. We want
it not to be rushed.

We know that ideas are good but execution doesn't come across. Automatic
Restart does not work a lotof the time. Win RE is a nice idea, but in fact,
it is not successful much of the time, and a Repair Install in Windows XP is
successful 100% of the time unless 1) you have systemic partition damage 2)
you have a situation that keeps you from a repair install setup like a multi
boot or dual boot with Linux bootloaders like Lilo or Grub on board.

Drivers, shmivers--they're not in consideration here. Half the people who
say drivers don't work don't know tricks for getting them in. I remember a
bunch of Sound Blaster execs who were TBTs saying to me that I couldn't get
in my sound driver--and when I showed them the tricks toward doing it (the
same was said dogmatically on this group) they were very quiet. It works
great. How old is it? Turtle Beach vintage Windows ME in 2000. It's no
longer in existence on their site--they've moved on. But I haven't. I like
the sound.

MSFT has been asking for Black Hat's help for years. It's Windows with IE;
there are always going to be exploits. UAC will make it somewhat safer. But
there will be hacks and I truly believe that although the hack written about
is done only when someone is running as admin, that a lot of people will be
turning UAC off out of frustation. The mainstream users are not a lot of
the people posting on this group right now--they're the ones we helped with
XP for years.

When a book or movie is critiqued by the NY Times Book Review or movie
critique, a relative inside the movie cast is not considered an objective
source. So you have a relative who works at MSFT Canada who says 5472 is a
big advance. LOL. That's hardly objective. That means you have a relative
that is a cheerleader in a polyana fashion. I've been listening to the
Vista is Way Cool Like (Valley Girl lilt) from the softies for a year. That
does not fly. Let's take ATI, NVidia and 3rd party completely off the
table. They aren't even part of the equation that says Vista needs 3-5 more
months into mid 2007. Let's take Paul Thurott who is a very proficient
Windows and Office user and has them well in perspective out of your
picture.

An MVP who has written Vista Inside Out and presold 900,000 plus copies
already (not due until December) has agreed it needs a ton of work that
cannot be completed by the projected tentative tenuous RTM date.

It's popular to diss Paul Thurott at times ( a lot of Beta testers who must
have Stockholm syndrome or figure that doing that helps to brownose
somebody), but Thurott is spot on.

Ed Bott is certainly an expert Peter. A number of MVPs are experts and they
say the same thing. Robert You don't plan to displace him before December
and author MSFT Press Vista Inside Out do you? Robert McLaws is a very
qualified developer and he says much the same as Thurrott. Robert Scoble is
a VB MVP who worked at MSFT until 2 weeks ago, as did his wife with MSDN,
because he got a better offer, and he is not only far and away their most
famoust blogger evangelist, he is the only blogger from there that has been
written up in every major news media in the country. Scoble says much the
same.

McLaws is right on Windows Vista ship date
http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/2006/07/31/mclaws-is-right-on-windows-vista-ship-date/

The Article I Didn't Want to Write
http://www.longhornblogs.com/

July 31, 2006 - 4:44 pm
Robert's Right; Vista Needs More Time
http://www.edbott.com/weblog/



I have TAP friends I looked at the build they got yesterday who are glad to
give me the DVD to put on my box. I'm looking at the latest build, and I've
followed all of them and drilled them. I've read every existing Vista book
that is out now (but found not much in them at all I hadn't already
learned), followed all the MSDN material and Technet material, and I'm here
to tell you that neither 5472 nor so-called RC1
5487 Released to TAP Testers vista_5487.0.060726-1810 on Wednesday August 2,
2006 is any way shape or form a big improvement. It is a little faster.
The explorer and IE shell still can break. Help is very incomplete. Device
manager absolutely cannot tell you the health of a driver. It never was
going to since Windows 95.

SFC System File Checker aka Windows File Protection does not have working
switches that replace files.

They are never going to fix VSS restore points to stay on a dual boot and
they could.

I am glad you're enjoying Vista. After all, that is in the end the idea.

CH
 
Back
Top