VISTA - Microsoft's Edsel

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Looks great on the showroom floor . . . useful as dog doo on my shoe.

Spent a whole lotta wasted hours trying to get this thing to work.

I'm throwing in the towel.

Change the name back to Longhorn. . . there's more bull here than in Kansas.

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http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/co...7b1&dg=microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
 
If you would have given specifics, it is probable someone could have helped
you identify the cause of your problems and lead you to a resolution.
Instead you come off as little more than a complainer since many run the
various builds of Vista very successfully.

If you still have any interest, I suggest you start a new thread and post
back with details so a resolution can be found.
 
Then your post would have been more appropriately in one or more of those
threads.
Or at least referencing the threads.
Alone and by itself, it looks like a meaningless rant.

I see a total of 10 posts of yours in this newsgroup.

2 in this thread, no relevant information by you of any problem.

1 posts in "VISTA Search Dialogue Stinks"
A very general complaint with nothing specific enough to work with.

1 post in "Vista Beta 2 & Driver issues"
Drivers are provided by the hardware manufacturer.
If the manufacturer will not provide them, there is nothing Microsoft can
do.
Of course you notified the hardware manufacturer of your need for the
driver?
If you or someone else filed a bug then Microsoft forwards the information
to the manufacturer.

1 post in "Vista MP3 do not play"
But again nothing that can help anyone help you.
No details at all.
You gave no indication what changed.
Since it worked before and not later, What changed?
You also seem unsure as to when.

Finally your one and only real issue, hardly "all over this community".
5 posts in:
"Vista Locked Up Tight - No Forward, No Reverse - Just a Square"
You have not been "booted me out of the Beta" since you most likely were not
in the Beta.
Most in this newsgroup are participating in the Customer Preview Program.
There are some members of the Technical Beta posting in this newsgroup.
The Technical Beta testers have other private newsgroups.
The Technical Beta and Customer Preview Program are different programs with
different purposes.
If you start from scratch with a Clean Installation, you will be able to
activate.
If you have questions as to exactly what you can do with Vista, read the
EULA you have already agreed.

Have you verified all your hardware is compatible with Vista?
A newer computer is no assurance of a Vista capable computer.

Vista Upgrade Advisor Beta:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/upgradeadvisor/default.mspx

Vista Capable and Premium Ready PCs:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/capable.mspx

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org
 
Nevermind! As I said before, I'm outta here.

Jupiter Jones said:
Then your post would have been more appropriately in one or more of those
threads.
Or at least referencing the threads.
Alone and by itself, it looks like a meaningless rant.

I see a total of 10 posts of yours in this newsgroup.

2 in this thread, no relevant information by you of any problem.

1 posts in "VISTA Search Dialogue Stinks"
A very general complaint with nothing specific enough to work with.

1 post in "Vista Beta 2 & Driver issues"
Drivers are provided by the hardware manufacturer.
If the manufacturer will not provide them, there is nothing Microsoft can
do.
Of course you notified the hardware manufacturer of your need for the
driver?
If you or someone else filed a bug then Microsoft forwards the information
to the manufacturer.

1 post in "Vista MP3 do not play"
But again nothing that can help anyone help you.
No details at all.
You gave no indication what changed.
Since it worked before and not later, What changed?
You also seem unsure as to when.

Finally your one and only real issue, hardly "all over this community".
5 posts in:
"Vista Locked Up Tight - No Forward, No Reverse - Just a Square"
You have not been "booted me out of the Beta" since you most likely were not
in the Beta.
Most in this newsgroup are participating in the Customer Preview Program.
There are some members of the Technical Beta posting in this newsgroup.
The Technical Beta testers have other private newsgroups.
The Technical Beta and Customer Preview Program are different programs with
different purposes.
If you start from scratch with a Clean Installation, you will be able to
activate.
If you have questions as to exactly what you can do with Vista, read the
EULA you have already agreed.

Have you verified all your hardware is compatible with Vista?
A newer computer is no assurance of a Vista capable computer.

Vista Upgrade Advisor Beta:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/upgradeadvisor/default.mspx

Vista Capable and Premium Ready PCs:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/capable.mspx
Click to expand...
 
Jupiter:
It looks like another one that expected everything to work out of
the box and expects full fixes without giving any specifications or
patterns.
 
Yeah, he forgot the "pre" in "preview."

Dennis Pack x64 said:
Jupiter:
It looks like another one that expected everything to work out of
the box and expects full fixes without giving any specifications or
patterns.
Click to expand...
 
Dennis;
That seems to be a more common theme as Vista gets more public.

People need to remember Vista is Beta.
I usually suggest to others.
Do not install Beta anything unless you are prepared for total data loss and
a Clean Installation of the operating system to resolve any issues.
I realize that is extreme, but it covers the nature of Beta, not just
Microsoft or operating systems, but Beta anything from any source.
Anyone not prepared for those terms, is probably not ready to have a Beta on
their computer.
That is how I look at any Beta before installing.
That is why Vista is on a computer with nothing of value, or at least not
otherwise stored.
Currently I do not trust Vista enough to use it as my main OS.

It is possible the OP has a hardware configuration incapable of supporting
Vista.
But more than likely, if the proper details were provided to this newsgroup,
someone could have helped resolve any issues or at least help determine the
precise cause.
But to do any of that, details are necessary, details not provided.
 
Dennis;
That seems to be a more common theme as Vista gets more public.

People need to remember Vista is Beta.
I usually suggest to others.
Do not install Beta anything unless you are prepared for total data loss and
a Clean Installation of the operating system to resolve any issues.
I realize that is extreme, but it covers the nature of Beta, not just
Microsoft or operating systems, but Beta anything from any source.
Anyone not prepared for those terms, is probably not ready to have a Beta on
their computer.
That is how I look at any Beta before installing.
That is why Vista is on a computer with nothing of value, or at least not
otherwise stored.
Currently I do not trust Vista enough to use it as my main OS.

It is possible the OP has a hardware configuration incapable of supporting
Vista.
But more than likely, if the proper details were provided to this newsgroup,
someone could have helped resolve any issues or at least help determine the
precise cause.
But to do any of that, details are necessary, details not provided.
Click to expand...

I don't agree Jupiter,

I am an experience PC user and system builder, I do not like a lot of
the "new" features in Vista, Beta or not it is a lot of hassle to run
and some things are just laughably stupid, the new search for one as
has been pointed out, the clunky ridiculously complicated file sharing
system (FFS its easier to set up Samba or NFS on a Linux Box). It has
a lot of problems not related to being a Beta mainly that the simple
has become either merely annoying or over-complicated. This is a high
price to pay for supposed extra security when we all know Vista will
be hacked to death as soon as it becomes worthwhile to do so therefore
all this extra security getting in the way of useability becomes
questionable because it is IMO badly implemented.

I fully understand why the OP is annoyed and frustrated, a good
portion of the people testing this are power users not newbies and TBO
Vista looks like a bit of a bodge job under the hood. Very pretty but
thats all it has going for it at the moment. I hope things will
improve a lot in future Betas and the release version. However I will
not be using it on anything but a test box, or recommending any of my
more experienced clients install it till I have had a good look at the
final version. It is however a good OS for a newbie, security wise but
then so is any Linux distro, Mac, if its set up correctly.

XP is the best OS MSFT have ever done, Vista is looking a bit surplus
to requirements at the moment.

Jonah
 
jonah said:
I don't agree Jupiter,

I am an experience PC user and system builder, I do not like a lot of
the "new" features in Vista, Beta or not it is a lot of hassle to run
and some things are just laughably stupid, the new search for one as
has been pointed out, the clunky ridiculously complicated file sharing
system (FFS its easier to set up Samba or NFS on a Linux Box). It has
a lot of problems not related to being a Beta mainly that the simple
has become either merely annoying or over-complicated. This is a high
price to pay for supposed extra security when we all know Vista will
be hacked to death as soon as it becomes worthwhile to do so therefore
all this extra security getting in the way of useability becomes
questionable because it is IMO badly implemented.

I fully understand why the OP is annoyed and frustrated, a good
portion of the people testing this are power users not newbies and TBO
Vista looks like a bit of a bodge job under the hood. Very pretty but
thats all it has going for it at the moment. I hope things will
improve a lot in future Betas and the release version. However I will
not be using it on anything but a test box, or recommending any of my
more experienced clients install it till I have had a good look at the
final version. It is however a good OS for a newbie, security wise but
then so is any Linux distro, Mac, if its set up correctly.

XP is the best OS MSFT have ever done, Vista is looking a bit surplus
to requirements at the moment.

Jonah
Click to expand...

Wasn't there much the same complaints about XP before and just after it was
released? Only time will make it clear if Vista is a good OS or not.
Personally I like the new security. If you run as a standard user and use
"Run as administrator" when needed it works very much like most Linux
distros. It's only when you run as the crippled, fake administrator/user
account and expect it to operate as XP did that Vista becomes frustrating.

I do agree that the search function seems to get more useless with every new
MS OS.
 
I agree. There are folks in here who are simply Windows shoppers and want a
quick and dirty look at the new toy. These have unwarrented expectations of
what a beta toy is like.
 
Kerry said:
Wasn't there much the same complaints about XP before and just after it was
released? Only time will make it clear if Vista is a good OS or not.
Personally I like the new security. If you run as a standard user and use
"Run as administrator" when needed it works very much like most Linux
distros. It's only when you run as the crippled, fake administrator/user
account and expect it to operate as XP did that Vista becomes frustrating.
Click to expand...

Yep, there were. And they were warranted too, unfortunately. XP "won"
the market mostly because MS forced it down our throats by not releasing
rather vital functionality for Win2000 any more (for example Windows
2003 Administrative Tools, newest Media player etc. etc.)

I've been using Vista since Beta 2 (now at 5472), and although I'm
fairly impressed with the general "feel" of the operating system, I have
a feeling that MS has gone overboard in some departments. UAC is an
obvious candidate (I don't need to get asked *EVERY TIME* i start
Firefox if I'm sure I *REALLY* want to do that), the restrictive, almost
non-functional driver model for audio is another pain point. So are the
new explorer windows. It's a neat idea - but they are, at the moment,
overly complex.

On another note - UAC is painful because of the way Windows is
designed. Why should I need systemwide privileges to install a program
that only I will use, and not the rest of my family? Linux/Unix has an
idea of "contained" environments for every user that Microsoft simply
has never grasped, unfortunately. Thus UAC becomes almost harassing in
its persistence - since pretty much every single thing you do
maintenance-wise requires elevated privileges.


Regards,
Henning Kilset
 
While I'm with you about the annoyance of UAC, I accept it.

Each request relates to an attack surface being blocked and I just don't see
how you can be halfway in this regard. Only asking 50% (for example) of the
time makes the computer 100% vulnerable overall because it only takes one
successful attack. I'll bet this has been the Great Argument at MS over the
last several years.
 
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 21:49:08 +0200, Henning Kilset Pedersen

snip
On another note - UAC is painful because of the way Windows is
designed. Why should I need systemwide privileges to install a program
that only I will use, and not the rest of my family? Linux/Unix has an
idea of "contained" environments for every user that Microsoft simply
has never grasped, unfortunately. Thus UAC becomes almost harassing in
its persistence - since pretty much every single thing you do
maintenance-wise requires elevated privileges.


Regards,
Henning Kilset
Click to expand...

Agreed, I think by trying to preserve ease of use and improve security
they have not got the balance correct, but this is a very difficult
thing to get right as easy and secure are not very harmonious. What
they have in UAC and the half baked fake admin account is just not
right, its a badly implemented compromise.

I don't know what the answer is, either its secure or its easy to use
but since its impossible to make any OS totally secure without pulling
the plug and never actually using the thing I think MSFT should stick
to what they are good at, user friendly, simple OSs for everybody.

I use a Linux box anyway for surfing and downloading, I use XP to get
actual work done. Vista trying to be a bit of both is just not going
to work.

Having said that I am pretty sure Vista will be a great OS by the time
SP2 comes out but right now it has improved, just not enough.

I await RC1.

Jonah
 
If you really hate UAC that much, disable it. It's not the cure-all, but it
helps if you don't like it. Just don't forget to turn off the security center
notifications, otherwise that will bug you too.

Just don't forget that turning these features off make you open to attack.
That's why I still use UAC.
 
I don't know what the answer is, either its secure or its easy to
use
Click to expand...

So why not a bloody big dialog box on first run after install with a
choice between the two?
 
If you really hate UAC that much, disable it. It's not the cure-all, but it
helps if you don't like it. Just don't forget to turn off the security center
notifications, otherwise that will bug you too.

Just don't forget that turning these features off make you open to attack.
That's why I still use UAC.
Click to expand...



Turning off the UAC does not make you open to attack.

The UAC was turned off on my system after about the third time it
asked me if I wanted to run such and such program. Hell Yes I want to
run that program. I double clicked on its shortcut didn't I???
 
If you really hate UAC that much, disable it. It's not the cure-all, but it
helps if you don't like it. Just don't forget to turn off the security center
notifications, otherwise that will bug you too.

Just don't forget that turning these features off make you open to attack.
That's why I still use UAC.
Click to expand...

First thing I did, second thing was firewall off, third auto updates
off, fourth got rid of the annoying security centre and alerts then i
installed a full admin account and a AV client. I use the user account
to check things out in standard mode but most of the time I experiment
with full admin.

Point is as has been said, all this stuff could be made optional on
installation with suitable but dire warnings during the process, those
in the know will be able to get rid of it and run as they wish,
inexperienced users will leave it alone mostly. Everybody is then
catered for and happy.

Jonah
 
UAC does make you open to attack, because all programs from that point on
will run with full admin powers (assuming you are an administrator).

UAC empowers you by letting you know when administrative programs are being
ran. Nothing can run with admin powers without your permission.

Giving up such powers will allow any program to take over your machine
without your knowledge. Might as well turn off your firewall as well. Or
maybe you don't have one?

- JB

Vista Support FAQ
http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
 
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