Vista Installation Recommendations...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Orgbrat
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Orgbrat

I have a current dual boot system with two installed copies of XP on two
seperate physical 500GB drives ( C: and D: ) with each drive
partioned as a single primary partition. The C: drive XP was installed first
if it matters. I want to install a clean install of Vista on the C: drive
maintaing the dual boot system setup. I have read where I have two options,
one option is to run Vista setup from the DVD and try to make
sure that I format the C: drive and then install to the C: drive. The other
option is to boot into the XP OS that is installed on the D: drive, format
the C: drive and start the Vista setup from within that install of XP. Can
someone tell me if these statements are true? Or is there a better way to
do this. I want to end up with Vista on the C: drive because at some point
in the future, I want to get rid of the XP install. Can anyone give
me some guidance as to what would be the best way to perform this process
without bothering the XP install on the D; drive. Thanks....


Steve Graddy
 
Right click on My Computer and choose Manage. Then choose the Disk Manager.
Look at the entries for each drive. What you want is to launch Setup from
the desktop of the drive that is marked "boot". It is likely to be C: from
what you describe. Check anyway.

If you want consistency in drive lettering: Whichever drive is the boot
drive, start that XP. Insert the dvd at the desktop and start Vista Setup.
That will preserve the same drive enumeration in Vista as seen presently
when that copy of XP is running. The Vista boot configuration data store
will be written to the root of the boot drive. Keep in mind that when you
start Setup from the desktop, you will not have the Advanced Options button
(where Format lives) so if you want to format the non-boot drive (probably
D:) do so from XP first.

If you don't care about consistency in drive lettering: Start Vista Setup
by booting with the dvd and drive enumeration in Vista will be independent
from that of XP. Drive 1 may be C: in XP but D: when you are in Vista, and
vice versa. Some folks find that confusing although in point of fact it
makes no functional difference. Since you are booting from the dvd you will
have the Advanced Options button and can format the target drive from within
Vista Setup.

You may install either way and you will still get a proper boot options
screen.
 
1) You always want to install the oldest Windows version first when one is
older i.e. XP and Vista (not the situation here).
2) You can format one of the XP boots off using Disk management from the
other, and in this case since they are both XP I don't see how it matters.
3) Then you can tell setup to install Vista to the one you formatted.
4) As Colin said, running the setup from the remaining XP allows you to
install Vista on its drive without your Drive letters being dictated by the
bios and changing.
5) A little unrelated, but if you had a dual boot and wanted to change the
default boot, you can do so by typing sysdm.cpol or getting to System
Properties via the Windows + Pause Break key or the control panel >Advanced
tab>Settings button at Startup and Recovery (bottom button)>Default
Operating System (select on the pull down at the top of the Startup and
Recovery dialogue box.

CH
 
Or simply use VistaBoot Pro 3.1.

Chad Harris said:
5) A little unrelated, but if you had a dual boot and wanted to change the
default boot, you can do so by typing sysdm.cpol or getting to System
Properties via the Windows + Pause Break key or the control panel
button)>Default Operating System (select on the pull down at the top of
the Startup and Recovery dialogue box.

CH
Click to expand...
 
Yessir--lol I wasn't posting to contradict anything. It seemed he had
several options. I know there is an option in setup I forget the precise
location --a hyperlink on the screen to format as well isn't there?

CH
 
Format is reached through the Advanced Options button, if that is what you
mean. AO is only available to me when I boot with the dvd to start Setup.
I cannot find it when I start Setup from the legacy (or other Vista)
desktop. This is why it is rather daunting to do a classic clean install
from an Upgrade Edition.
 
That's where I'd seen it. I think I've mentioned this (what's been
happening to me) before but I consider this a bug/glitch and would like to
hear Darrell Gorter's /Vinny Flint or someone who helped build setup at
Redmond's reaction. It thew me for a little bit at first, but not for long.

This gets in the nexus of what happens when you use older but plenty
adequate hardware and Vista setup. Ever since Build 5472 I was prevented
from running Vista setup from the XP CD.

Beginning with Build 5472 through RTM, when I try to setup Vista on a dual
boot from XP I get stopped on an early setup screen, the one that allows you
to pick which drive you want to install to by selecting a Custom/Advanced
install (the click on the 5th screen down here):

http://www.windowsvista.windowsreinstall.com/vistaultimate/installnewhdd/index.htm

When I select custom/advanced as I always do, from XP (5472 and through
6000...) I get that "you cannot complete setup because your IDE controller
cannot run Vista. I would like to find the author or authors of that
screen and that error message, and I'm going to try because he/she/they in
Redmondland are dead wrong. When it first happened to me, I thought "well,
some update somehow had me spooked because I sure had no problem running
setup every build since the little baby Beta hit the delivery room back in
July 2005."

I had to reboot because of a shell crash I couldn't prevent or recover from
by restarting the shell (typing explorer.exe into the XP New Apps run box
reached through Task Man will prevent the shell crash and most IE crashes in
my experience 85% of the time). When I rebooted, I still had the Vista DVD
in, and it went of coure into setup, and I tried it again and this time it
allowed me to sail through and I have had setup times varying from 30
minutes to my record of 16 minutes ever since. 5480 was faster than RTM for
me, but I have no idea why.

Since I have to boot from the DVD and not from XP on that particular box, I
have been seeing the format option. I'd like to know why they give people a
*false message in Vista setup from XP* and tell them they can't run setup
when they absolutely can. I consider this a more serious error glitch than
the fact that the Upgrade Advisor is seriously wrong much of the time.

CH
 
What a bizarre sequence of events. Thanks for sharing all the data.

What do you mean by the "false message in Vista setup from XP" about not
being able to run Setup?
 
Hey folks, Thanks for all the good info... Let me make sure that I
understand wht you are saying.

1) Since I want Vista to end up on the C: drive, I am going to boot into the
XP install that is currently
loaded on the D: drive ( which was the XP install that was installed
last) . I am then going to go
to Disk Management Console and format the C: drive.
2) Insert the Vista dvd from the currently running install of XP desktop and
perform a new install of
Vista to the freshly formatted C: drive.
3) When everything is done and I reboot, I should have a Vista and XP dual
boot with all the XP
file structure intact and correct on the D: drive and Vista ready to
start loading applications on the
C: drive....

Can you guys confirm what I am understanding?

Steve
 
If you install from the desktop on D: you will overwriting C:. I understood
you to say that C: was the original Windows installation. If so, it contains
the boot loader for both copies of XP and the mbr. Isn't C: marked as the
boot drive in XP Disk Manager?

I think you want to reverse and use D: for Vista so that you do not lose the
ability to boot the XP on D: (as a result of having formatted C:).

Keep in mind that the drive letter for Vista is not significant. It just
doesn't matter. It can be D:, or G:, or Z:. It just does not affect how
the system works.

If you insist on seeing "C:" when you boot up Vista then install by booting
from the dvd. That will force Vista to use the BIOS enumeration instead of
that seen in XP. You will still have a boot options screen. You will see
different drive lettering for the same drives when in each of the two OS's
but that is not significant either.

Name your drives so that you do not get confused by letters.
 
Hi Colin,
Yes you are correct, the C: drive is where the origianl instance of
Windows XP was installed.
But the XP instance on the D: drive has everything that I am now trying to
save and keep intact.
But I also do not want to overwrite or damge the boot loader for both copies
of XP and the mbr
that is on the C: drive. So it would be better to boot from the Vista DVD,
format the C: drive
and install Vista. I should still be able to boot into my XP install that
exists on the D: drive, correct?

Steve
 
No. At least not without some repair work. The boot files for D: are not
written on D: They are written on C: because at the time you installed on
D: the installer idenified C: as the computer's boot drive. This is
regardless of the fact that you may have booted with the XP cd when you
installed on D:.

I recommend you do keep the C: drive as it is now and move all your stuff
across from D:.

I don't know what the drive sizes involved are, but I assume C: has plenty
of room for your stuff.

I would proceed as follows (after backing everything up as you usually do):

1. Run the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard on D: as the "old" computer
and make sure no other drives are selected. Have the wizard write the file
to C:.
2. Boot into C: and run the wizard using C: as the "new" computer and the
file you saved from D: (Step 1).
2a. Call out for pizza and a two-liter bottle of coke.
3. Install all your apps on C:.
4. Format D:. (The recommended way is to boot with the Vista dvd and use
the tools on the dvd to format D: but I have not had an issue when
formatting from XP either).
4a. Repeat 2a.
5. Install Vista to D: from the XP desktop on C:. (This will be quickest
step by far.)

That will give you a C: drive with XP and a D: drive with Vista and you will
have the cleanest installation experience.
 
Hi, Steve.

Just boot from the Vista DVD and clean install on C:, letting Vista format
it as part of Setup. Vista Setup will detect your WinXP on D: and create
the dual-boot menu. After Vista is installed on your first HDD, each reboot
should offer you the choice between Vista and the "previous" version of
Windows, which is WinXP, of course.

When Vista Setup detects an existing WinXP installation, it preserves the
WinXP boot sector in a new file, as well as the existing files NTLDR,
NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini. Then it writes the new Vista boot sector and BCD
(Boot Configuration Data) into the Root of the System Partition. And then
it installs the new Vista and assigns the drive letter C: to its new boot
volume. Since, in your case, the new volume is the same partition that was
already Drive C:, you won't see any change in that letter. And, since the
new boot volume is also the System Partition, the letter D: will still be
available for your second HD.
one option is to run Vista setup from the DVD and try to make
sure that I format the C: drive and then install to the C: drive.
Click to expand...

That's a shorter version of what I just said. ;<)
The other option is to boot into the XP OS that is installed on the D:
drive, format
the C: drive and start the Vista setup from within that install of XP.
Click to expand...

Since you want Vista to install onto C:, this complication is not necessary
..

Your first WinXP might still appear in your Boot.ini after the Vista
installation but it won't do anything, of course; you'll want to edit
Boot.ini to delete that.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Mail 7.0 in Vista Ultimate x64)
 
Sorry Colin for late response. I haven't been on this group in a few days.
I meant that I had always set Vista up from XP--at the very first because of
some of the usual starting jitters with a new Beta OS and the endless bad
outcomes in setups (predomininantly in my view because they had bad burns)
I read on beta groups which diminmished after a few builds.

In 5472, I had a message I've screenshot but is on my XP boot and I can't
reach Pictures on XP from Vista--I've tried many times--(I can reach most
files and sometimes have to do a quick take ownership dance on the security
tab to get into a folder) when I clicked Advanced to go into the setup
screen that lets you pick the drive to install on and I believe to format
there if you need to):

Error: Cannot Install Vista because the IDE Controller you have (I'm
paraphrasing here) will not work. I'll get to that boot and post it soon.
It's happened every build since 5472, but if I boot from the DVD after a
restart no problem whatsoever. I had a half hour or so setup in RTM and
nearly a 16 minute setup in 5840 which I think was the build they turned
into Escrow.

CH
 
I wonder how intolerant Vista is of the older unshielded IDE cables as
compared to XP?
 
I'd assume that since it's a hardware problem it would still exist in Vista.
Using the older cables with high-speed DMA hardware results in signal
crosstalk between the wires on the drive controller. The 80-wire connector
simply sticks an empty wire between each wire carrying a signal, thus
isolating the wires from each other and eliminating crosstalk.

--
Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] (e-mail address removed)
* NEW! Catch my blog ... http://msmvps.com/blogs/rgharper/
* PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
* The Website - http://rgharper.mvps.org/
* HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
 
That makes plenty sense Richard/ and Colin, if it ***were really a valid
hardware problem with the IDE Controller***, but I the proof is in the
pudding. I also think this correlates somewhat with the false errors I get
when I run the Vista Upgrade Advisor on this box. Vista has always run very
well on this box from the very start ***as to the hardware,**** as
distinguished from software bugs that the IDE controller doesn't impact.
I apologize I've been doing some work on my Vista drive getting some
applications up and running and tweaked including Office, Outlook, Word
2007 and One Note, but I'll go to the XP boot and get the screen shoot of
the error.

But remember the history.

Starting back with the original CTPs etc. of Vista whenever they came up, I
setup Vista on the same hardware and didn't have this error come up that
wouldn't run setup from XP until Build 5472 (if I previously typed 5427 then
I reversed the numbers), which was not that many builds ago. The only
hardware changes I have made to the box were two: I upgraded my Video card
to a higher end Nvidia and then that mandated as you might expect that I
change my PSU because the older Dell PSU wouldn't run the Nvidia GPU, and
Dell like so many OEM manufacturers uses proprietary wiring on the PSUs they
ship.

The error prevents setup and comes up only when I try to run Vista's setup
from the XP boot. It never comes up when I setup Vista on this machine from
the DVD. I've seen that in all of these builds: If I remember the builds
correctly, we're talking

5472, Beta 2, 5536, RC1, 5728, RC2, 5480 (for me) and 6000 or RTM the
current build--I've seen this false error in setup from XP in all of the
last 8 builds. But there hasn't been one hardware related problem in
Vista's running in any of these builds since the false setup error.

I'll get the pic of the error soon and post it.

CH


Richard G. Harper said:
I'd assume that since it's a hardware problem it would still exist in
Vista. Using the older cables with high-speed DMA hardware results in
signal crosstalk between the wires on the drive controller. The 80-wire
connector simply sticks an empty wire between each wire carrying a signal,
thus isolating the wires from each other and eliminating crosstalk.

--
Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] (e-mail address removed)
* NEW! Catch my blog ... http://msmvps.com/blogs/rgharper/
* PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
* The Website - http://rgharper.mvps.org/
* HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


Colin Barnhorst said:
I wonder how intolerant Vista is of the older unshielded IDE cables as
compared to XP?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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