Vista and 4 gig of ram

  • Thread starter Thread starter super1
  • Start date Start date
S

super1

I thought I posted this yesterday but I don't see it. Sorry if this gets
posted twice.

I have Vista Enterprise with 4 gigs of ram. I have 4 sticks of 1 gig each.
Vista only sees 2813. I can remove any combination of the sticks to have
three left and it will still see 2813. If I remove 2 it does drop to 2046.

Is there a setting to get Vista to see 4 gigs? Do others out there have 4
gig working fine?
Thanks
 
Same answer for you.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
Hello,

Here's my reply in the last post:

Hello,

Thank you for posting in the Microsoft newsgroup!

From your post, my understanding on this issue is: Vista reported less
memory than you expected. If I'm off base, please feel free to let me know.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Just like Richard said, the problem is caused by hardware limitations. The
following KB described this issue:

Windows Vista or Windows Server 2003 may report less memory than you expect
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929580

You can fix this issue by enabling a PAE boot switch. However, you can't
let Vista using this parameter by editing boot.ini, since Vista doesn't use
this file anymore.

You can add the switch by the following steps:

1. Reboot Vista to safe mode with command line
2. Run the command : bcdedit /set PAE ForceEnable
3. Run bcdedit again to verify the switch is added
4. Reboot the system and check whether the problem is fixed

Here are some other files you can refer to:
BCDEdit /set
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa906211.aspx
Boot Configuration Data Editor Frequently Asked Questions
http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsVista/en/library/85cd5efe-c349-427c-b03
5-c2719d4af7781033.mspx?mfr=true

Please let me know if you have any other concerns, or need anything else.

Sean Cai, MCSE2000
Microsoft Online Support

Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
=====================================================
When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via your newsreader so
that others may learn and benefit from your issue.
=====================================================
 
Hi,

Since you couldn't find the original post, I'll close that one. If you have
any problem on my reply, please follow up in this post. Thank you for your
understanding.

Best Regards,

Sean Cai, MCSE2000
Microsoft Online Support

Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
=====================================================
When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via your newsreader so
that others may learn and benefit from your issue.
=====================================================
 
Thanks for the tip, but I made the change using bcdedit and it did not help.
One of the pages you linked below says "To enable PAE when DEP is disabled,
you must enable PAE explicitly, by using /set nx AlwaysOff and /set pae
ForceEnable" Do I need to set nx to always off?

Here is how the system is setup now.

Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier {bootmgr}
device partition=C:
description Windows Boot Manager
locale en-US
inherit {globalsettings}
default {current}
resumeobject {ba251a9f-b2d5-11db-b635-e0610da386bc}
displayorder {current}
toolsdisplayorder {memdiag}
timeout 30

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier {current}
device partition=C:
path \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description Microsoft Windows Vista
locale en-US
inherit {bootloadersettings}
osdevice partition=C:
systemroot \Windows
resumeobject {ba251a9f-b2d5-11db-b635-e0610da386bc}
nx OptIn
pae ForceEnable
 
Replying to my own post. I also set nx to always off and I still only have
2813 mb of ram.
At least in XP I had 3.5 without doing anything.

Any other ideas?
 
You don't have a problem!

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
Excuse me?

Richard Urban said:
You don't have a problem!

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
You have hit the wall because of 32 bit operating systems and hardware. 4
gig of RAM will show up as anywhere between 2.8 and 3.5 gig, depending on
your M/B and chipset combination. Of course removing 1 stick is not going to
show a difference, but you will GET a difference.

The 4 gig is there and usable but a proportion is reserved/used only by the
operating system. It can NOT be used by programs - therefore it can NOT be
seen by programs also - including those in the O/S that report on RAM.

You want to see all 4 gig, go to 64 bit hardware and O/S.



--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
Hi,

The PAE switch in Windows XP and Windows 2000 can let users "see" 4GB
memory in the system (though programs still unable to use all of them). I
believed it's the same in Vista. I find some other users' posts on this
issue. It seems like PAE switch does a different job in Vista, the switch
won't show 4GB memory anymore.

In the meantime, I find some explanation on your issue:
The memory you are seeing is the part of the 4GB that is available. The
system reserved the remaining ram. The reason it is hidden from user
programs is to ensure that they don't write in the system area and crash
the system. Though it is not visible to the user, it being used.

Depending on different mother board bios settings, enable "Memory hole for
PCI MMIO" will map the system reserved part above 4GB address which will
let you see more memory. The setting may let you feel better but nothing is
changed.

Sean Cai, MCSE2000
Microsoft Online Support

Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
=====================================================
When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via your newsreader so
that others may learn and benefit from your issue.
=====================================================
 
To add to this re the /PAE switch. If your processor supports hardware DEP,
and DEP is on, then PAE is automatically enabled. Hardware DEP uses the PAE
kernel.
 
I have Vista 64 Ultimate and had trouble with it seeing more than 2 gig of
ram. The solution is very simple.

Type MSCONFIG in the "start search"

Click the BOOT tab

Click the ADVANCED button

Uncheck the box that says "Maximun Memory" ( mine was checked with 2048 ) no
need to set it just uncheck it.

Reboot and you should now see all your memory.

No need to go into safe mode ! and set PAE BS




Thats right folks MSCONFIG still exists in Vista all versions.
 
"The 4 gig is there and usable...."

I think there is a lot of confusion around this issue. The 4 GB is
there but you are getting no value from it. The memory ADDRESSES that
would be used to write to the last 750 MB or so are mapped to other
hardware (video card, PCI bus, etc) not to your RAM, so no program can
write to that RAM so there is no reason to have that RAM. If you
remove 1 GB you will see no difference in performance because that
last GB of RAM was never addressable.

But if you leave that last GB or RAM in your computer perhaps it will
help you keep your room warm ;-)
 
I still dont see any solution here... Tried BCDedit, tried MSconfig... I have
Vista 64, the HW sees the 4GB memory... The OS only reports a bit more then
3GB.
 
jorgen said:
read this http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605
and check your hardware for support of memory remapping

Is it just my uneducated eye, or do KB929580 and KB929605 appear to
contradict each other?

KB929508:
"SYMPTOMS
On a computer that has 4 gigabytes (GB) of random access memory (RAM), the
System Properties dialog box and the System Information dialog box may report
less memory than you expect. ...

MORE INFORMATION
A 32-bit operating system can address memory that is relocated above the 4
GB boundary if the following conditions are true:
• The computer is in Physical Address Extension (PAE) mode.
• The computer has 4 GB of RAM.
In this case, the operating system correctly reports how much memory is
installed."

KB929605:
"SYMPTOMS
If a computer has 4 gigabytes (GB) of random-access memory (RAM) installed,
the system memory that is reported in the System Information dialog box in
Windows Vista is less than you expect. ...

WORKAROUND
For Windows Vista to use all 4 GB of memory on a computer that has 4 GB of
memory installed, the computer must meet the following requirements: ...
• An x64 (64-bit) version of Windows Vista must be used."

It would appear to me that KB929580 suggests that in order to get the
correct amount of installed memory to be reported in a 32-bit operating
system, the PC needs to be in PAE mode and have the 4 GB of RAM, whereas
KB929605 suggests that, among other things, the PC requires a 64-bit version
of Vista. I'm sure I must be missing something, but (obviously) I don't see
it. Can anyone provide some clarification regarding why these KB articles
appear to suggest contradictory solutions? (Both articles were reviewed in
March 2007, so one would think that they are accurate)

FWIW, I've followed the recommendations in KB929580 without success.

Links:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929580
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605
 
KB...580 applies to a X86 system running Vista 32
KB...605 applies to 64 bit system running Vista 64bit
 
LOL, I was scratching my head over that one too. By definition, a 32-bit CPU
can directly address up to 4GB of memory. But apparently nearly 1GB of that
is reserved for devices. So the most you can possibly see is 3.12GB in a
32-bit system. The way I read it, there is no way around it, no "fix" if
you're using a 32-bit version of Vista.

To see any more than 3.12 GB you have to be using a 64-bit version of Vista
plus meet all those other requirements (64-bit CPU instruction set, chipset
with 8GB address space, BIOS that supports memory remapping). That's the way
I read it anyway.

I think the DEP/ PAE thing is a whole different (but related) issue.

I kinda wish I had the hardware to see how this all plays out, because it is
really confusing. Do you use any of those little sidebar gadgets like
Multi-Meter that show how much RAM you're using? I'd be curious to know if
it shows something different than that System Info shows, and how far up the
scale you get with your software.
 
JW said:
KB...580 applies to a X86 system running Vista 32
KB...605 applies to 64 bit system running Vista 64bit

JW, are you sure? The "Applies To" section lists "Windows Vista ..." and
"Windows Vista ... 64-bit edition", and the article makes references to the
32-bit version. Either way, if ...580 applies to Vista 32-bit, then the
workaround would appear to have incomplete information, as I followed those
directions and am not getting 4 GB reported back.

Puppy Breath said:
LOL, I was scratching my head over that one too. By definition, a 32-bit CPU
can directly address up to 4GB of memory. But apparently nearly 1GB of that
is reserved for devices. So the most you can possibly see is 3.12GB in a
32-bit system. The way I read it, there is no way around it, no "fix" if
you're using a 32-bit version of Vista.

To see any more than 3.12 GB you have to be using a 64-bit version of Vista
plus meet all those other requirements (64-bit CPU instruction set, chipset
with 8GB address space, BIOS that supports memory remapping). That's the
way I read it anyway.

I think the DEP/ PAE thing is a whole different (but related) issue.

I think this is generally the case when not using PAE. Basically, there are
a fixed number of addresses that the system can send data to, specifically
2^32 (I'll leave the actual math to the reader). But, as I understand it
(which is by no means necessarily accurate), that's using the "standard"
addressing method. Enabling PAE changes the addressing method to use more
bits for the address to which the data is to be routed. From KB268363:

"With PAE enabled, the operating system moves from a two-level linear
address translation to a three-level address translation. The extra layer of
translation is what provides access to physical memory beyond 4 GB. Instead
of a linear address being split into three separate fields for indexing into
memory tables, it is split into four separate fields; a 2-bit field, two
9-bit fields, and a 12-bit field that corresponds to the page size
implemented by Intel Architecture (4 KB)." Granted, that KB article applies
to Windows 2000, but I imagine that the PAE implementation in Vista would be
similar, wouldn't it?
I kinda wish I had the hardware to see how this all plays out, because it is
really confusing. Do you use any of those little sidebar gadgets like
Multi-Meter that show how much RAM you're using? I'd be curious to know if
it shows something different than that System Info shows, and how far up the
scale you get with your software.

I do, but it only reports back the percentage of memory being used, not hard
numbers. If I had been smarter, I would've checked the info under Task
Manager before posting (from my laptop running XP). Of course, if I were
smarter maybe I would've figured all this out beforehand and not needed to
post!

Anyway, I appreciate the feedback and recognize that this topic is like the
cat from the popular song ("...but the cat came back / the very next day /
the cat came back / it wouldn't go away..."), but it appears to me anyway
that there is conflicting information even in Microsoft's knowledge base, and
I suspect that may be contributing to this subject's longevity and resiliency
to quashing. Can anyone else offer an explanation for the apparent
contradiction in the two articles (KB929580 and KB929605)? Links to those
articles can be found in previous posts. A link to KB268363 is included
below.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/268363/en-us
 
I consider the reference to 64 bit Vista as an aside.
The CAUSE paragraph at the start of the KB article is what I based my
statement on.

From another post, I can't find the link, it also appears that not all X86
MOBOS have the capability to implement the suggested workaround.
 
Back
Top