Visa encrypted old xp(home) files on the external drives?

  • Thread starter Thread starter sshuangw
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sshuangw

Hello:

I connected my external WesternDigital hard drive to the new laptop
with MS Vista installed. But I was unable to copy the files from the
external hard drive to the laptop's local disk, it complains about the
permission and access denied. After quite a frustrated efforts, I gave
up and connect this exernal hard drive back to my old windows XP Home
notebook, which worked wek before. However, I found most of the files
on the external hard drive turn green, looks like they are encrypted
somehow? and I am unable to open these files, it says "Access Denied".
I tried to take ownership of these files, but it does not help, after
rebooting a couple of times, those files are still in green color and
refused to be opened!

Did anyone experience this, and could anyone shed a light on this
issue, it can just lose all my data by using Windows Vista.

Thanks for any help!

Regards
Annie
 
XP Home cannot encrypt files using EFS so it must have been done while you
were trying to access the files from Vista. We would need to know in detail
what steps you took while trying to access the files from Vista. The only
other possibility I can think of is during the time the drive was
disconnected from the old notebook you switched from XP Pro to XP Home. Now
that they are encrypted there is no way to access them except from the
computer that encrypted them. It is very important you do not change any
passwords until you figure out which computer and user account was used to
encrypt the files.
 
Hi Kerry:

Thanks a lot for your reply. Yes, I think the files are encrypted
while I was trying to transfer them from the external HD to the new
laptop with Vista.
I think what I did is as follows: At first, I was trying to copy the
file from the HD to the laptop, but got the error of "Access Denied".
Then, I right click the files's properties and click the security tab,
and change the files' owner to the account I used to log in the new
laptop. Then I try to copy again, but it did not work neither, then I
gave up and disconnect the external HD and connect it back to my old
XP Home laptop, then I found the files are shown as green and unable
to open anymore. I connected the HD to the new laptop with Vista again
trying to see whether I can open those files from there? But quite
unfortunately, they are shown as green in Vista laptop as well, and
unable to open neither.

I highly appreciated your help with this issue! Just cannot lose those
data. Is there any way I can do to recover this, I did not change
password nor account for the new laptop with Vista.

Regards
Annie
 
Hi Kerry:

Thanks a lot for your reply. Yes, I think the files are encrypted
while I was trying to transfer them from the external HD to the new
laptop with Vista.
I think what I did is as follows: At first, I was trying to copy the
file from the HD to the laptop, but got the error of "Access Denied".
Then, I right click the files's properties and click the security tab,
and change the files' owner to the account I used to log in the new
laptop. Then I try to copy again, but it did not work neither, then I
gave up and disconnect the external HD and connect it back to my old
XP Home laptop, then I found the files are shown as green and unable
to open anymore. I connected the HD to the new laptop with Vista again
trying to see whether I can open those files from there? But quite
unfortunately, they are shown as green in Vista laptop as well, and
unable to open neither.

I highly appreciated your help with this issue! Just cannot lose those
data. Is there any way I can do to recover this, I did not change
password nor account for the new laptop with Vista.

Regards
Annie
Click to expand...

Sorry, odds not good you can recover. Sadly yours is the second post
in a few days I've seen where somebody did the same kind of thing. The
good news is you see encryption works. Bad news, maybe too well. When
you use Windows' build-in encryption the encrypting is tied to the
instance of Windows that the files were encrypted under. What that
means will be come clearer later.

NEVER copy any file in its encrypted state, you're asking for trouble.

A long shot, but did you make a personal encryption certificate along
with a recovery agent certificate and put it on a floppy? I remember
XP nags you do this, I'm guessing most people don't bother. This is
the only way I can think of to still unlock the files. It has to be
done BEFORE something bad happens, not after, won't have any effect if
you try to make them now, but I haven't tried so who knows.

IMPORTANT for anybody that has encrypted files. Before moving to Vista
you MUST decrypt them all first. Don't and those files are probably
gone forever if you copy/move them in a encrypted state, depending on
what you have or havne't done.

Here's why:

It is very easy, some would say too easy to lose your private key.
This isn't a physical key, rather it is a bit of code that only
Windows knows about and hides and that too, of course, is encrypted,
but not with your key, one that Windows creates with further encoding
based on the instance of Windows the key was created in.

In English, that means this:

Lets say you have your data all encrypted and stored on your drive E.
For whatever reason you decide to reinstall Windows or upgrade to
another version of Windows or move this "E" drive to another box with
the same version of Windows.

The human midset would be why should you worry, you're going to
reinstall Windows on your C drive, your encrypted files are safe and
sound on your E drive.

Wrong!

When you reinstall Windows (or try to upgrade) it won't tell you but
its creating a new SID or security indenifier for each user and that
happens even if you do everything exactly the same as before. In order
words even if you use the same name for your computer, the same user
names, the same log on passwords it is still "different" to Windows
because of how it makes the SID. That's because part of the encryption
key is based on real time events, like a date or system time so the
new encryption certificate is different from the one its replacing and
as far as Windows cares, you're a intruder and it won't (actually
can't) access your priceless unreplacable encrypted files any longer.

Its too late if you don't already have one. For others with encrypted
files right now make a data recovery agent. This is just a second user
account. This is a safety net just in case your encryption certificate
you should have made itself gets corruputed or your lose the floppy.

In effect you're going to make a second trusted user with
administrative rights that will also be able to decrypt YOUR encrypted
files. Which may defeat the purpose. How is a little involved, but
covered in Microsoft's KB, somewhere. The last several paragraphs
apply to XP, could have all changed in Vista.
 
One more point. Always backup encrypted files to a non-encrypted medium and
use physical security to protect the backup.

I had my key on diskette and when I needed it, the diskette was unreadable.

No matter what media you store the key on, the same thing is ultimately
possible.

Dale
 
Hi Kerry:

Thanks for your reply and explanation, it is very bad to lose all the
data, it contains all the old pictures and some important docs. But
the problems are that I never encrypted them in my old laptop with the
windows XP home, as you know, there is no EFS available with window XP
Home. I just saved them to an external hard drive(Western Digital), it
works perfectly with all my other machines(windows xp and home, 2000).
But after I tried to copy the files to the new laptop with Vista
installed, the files are encrypted automatically without any prompt or
warning. It is a very frustrated and bad expereince with this new OS,
since as a user, I did not do any encryption myself. Also, if it is
Vista who acted upon myself to encrypt the files, it should be able to
decrypt it or open it if I use the same accout under Vista
environment, but unfortunately, Visa cannot open those files neither,
and all of this occurred without any warning and prompt and too much
active security control, I know security advancement is a big prompted
feature of Vista, but it is annoying and does not work gracefully. I
really appreciated your help and detailed explanation, but as a user,
I am pretty disappointed at this new OS, I think I won't use it for
this time being, and will try to get back to old XP/2000.

Thanks again.

Regards

Annie
 
Also:

IMPORTANT for anybody that has encrypted files. Before moving to
Vista
you MUST decrypt them all first. Don't and those files are probably
gone forever if you copy/move them in a encrypted state, depending on
what you have or havne't done.
--> To Clarify: First of all, The files are not in encrypted state
origianlly, it works great with my windows XP(Home) and other laptops.
They are not shown as green at all. When I connected my HD to the new
laptop of Vista, I was able to view the file but unable to copy them
over. That is why I gave up and connect them back to my old laptop,
then I found all the files are encrypted and canot be opened anymore.
then I would think it is Vista did this due to its security feature,
so I connect the HD back to Vista laptop, and found the files shown as
green there as well, and without copying anything, I just cannot
simply view it with access denied this time. I hope I can find the
backup somewhere, but this is very bad state.
 
--> To Clarify: First of all, The files are not in encrypted state
origianlly, it works great with my windows XP(Home) and other laptops.
Click to expand...

It works now, or used to work?

If you didn't encrypt the files I don't see how Vista could or would
without you telling it to. Lets back up a bit. If you don't have the
XP Pro version you can't encrypt the files. So now your referring to
XP home I'm confused with you repeated use of encrypted.
They are not shown as green at all.
Click to expand...
When I connected my HD to the new
laptop of Vista, I was able to view the file but unable to copy them
over.
Click to expand...

You can't view the file if its encrypted without the right key. That's
the whole point of doing it. Define "view". You mean you can see the
file name in Explorer, or do you mean you can literally view (look at)
the file's contents, ie click on it and there's your text, picture,
whatever.

Please explain how you're using the phrase 'copy them over'.
That is why I gave up and connect them back to my old laptop,
then I found all the files are encrypted and canot be opened anymore.
Click to expand...

You're making a lot of conflicting statements.

Summary:

1. you could view the files on your laptop
2. you connected a drive to it that's running Vista, still see files
3. you say both that files are green and not green in their text color

then I would think it is Vista did this due to its security feature,
so I connect the HD back to Vista laptop, and found the files shown as
green there as well, and without copying anything, I just cannot
simply view it with access denied this time.
Click to expand...

What exactly are you see by way of any message Windows is giving you.
Be exact. Access denied may just be a simple permissions thing that's
easy to undo. Tell us more.

It doesn't appear you have encryption issue at all but just a file
access problem of some kind.
 
When you say you could view the files do you mean you could read the file
name or that you could open the file with a program? Did any of the other
laptops you viewed the files with have XP pro? Have you ever encrypted any
files on the Vista laptop? Have you ever used a different portable drive
that had encrypted files on it with the Vista laptop? On the Vista laptop
open a cmd prompt, navigate to the folder with the encrypted files and type

cipher /c filename

where filename = one of the files

This may give you some clues about which user encrypted the files.
 
Hi Kerry:

To further clarify the issue:

1. Those files are used to work with my old laptop, which has windows
xp home installed. Not Window Professional. The external hard drive
used to connect to my windows XP Home Laptop, and it works file, which
means, I can read the contents(text files from NotePad, JPEG files
from the PhotoEditor, etc). The file names are normal black color from
the windows explorer.

Why I see it is not encrypted on my old laptop:
(1). I can see the contents without any problem, which means for the
text file, I can open it using notepad, for the picture files, I can
open it with any photo editor.
(2). The file names are not shown as green, they used to be shown as
normal file names with black color.

2. Copy them over
I connected the external HD to the new laptop with Vista installed.
It recognize this new HD drive, and I can see the folders and file
names from windows explorer.
Then, I highlight the file and ctl-C, trying to paste(ctl-V) this file
to the C drive of the new laptop. I got the message of "No Permission
is allowed".

Summary
1. My old laptop is intalled with windows XP HOME.

2. Before, I can read the contents of the files from my old laptop,
the file names are shown as black, It has been working this way for 2
years.

3. My new laptop is installed with Vista

4. I tried to copy some files from the external HD to the C drive of
the new laptop. When I connected the drive to the new laptop with
Vista,
the first time:
*. The file names are shown as black from the windows explorer.
* I can read the contents of the files. which means, I can open the
text file by notepad.
* But unable to copy the file to the new laptop, the message Vista is
giving: "Permission is not allowed."

Copy the file means, I tried to copy the file from the external HD to
the laptop's C drive.

4. Then what I did: highlight one folder, right-click to get the
Security tab, change the ownership to the login account I was using to
log into new Vista laptop.

But this does not solve the issue, I was still unable to copy the
files from the external HD to the C drive.

5. Then I turned off UserAccountControl from the Control Panel, reboot
the laptop, but still unable to copy the filse from the external drive
to the C drive.

5. Gave up, disconnect the HD from Vista one, and connect back to the
old laptop.

6. Then what I see from the windows explorer on the old laptop, are
the file names are shown as green and were unable to open, in other
words, I can not open the text files using notepad, the picture files
from photo editor anymore.

7. Then, I connect this HD to the new Vista laptop again, this time,
the file names are shown as green now, and unable to open them to view
the contents anymore.

And if it is just permission issue, why all the file name are shown as
green color under windows explorer now. I have the file option set as
"Show the encrypted and compressed NTFS files in color" from the Tools/
Folder Options/View.

Also I ran cipher command, from the command line window,

"D" is the external hard drive, the "My Docs" folder name is shown as
green, so do the files contained, one example file is called
"Temp.txt", the file name is green

cd D:/My Docs
cipher Temp.txt

it returns:

New files added to this directory will be encrypted.
E Temp.txt

I think the above command return means this file is encrypted.

Hope this is clear enough to describe the problem.

Thanks.

Regards
Annie
 
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