H
Haggar
I do video editing, watching movies on computer. whats a good graphics
processor, amount of video ram to do this??
processor, amount of video ram to do this??
P
Paul
"Haggar" said:
Is this video card for a PCI slot, an AGP slot, or for one
of the new PCI Express video card slots ?
To describe the best card for all three standards is going
to take a book.
The activities you refer to, are 2D. A lot of the technology
you are buying, when you get a high end video card, is for
3D work. For 2D, you need space for frame buffers, which is not
a lot of RAM, so even 32MB would be good enough. And even
cards up to four or five years old, have features to give a bit
of acceleration to video playback.
For my non-gaming machines, I use an FX5200. It is actually still
good enough to play old games, but nothing too demanding. I like
this card, because you can get them fanless (the ones with the
64 bit memory interface).
The FX5200 is an AGP card. The latest motherboards now have
PCI Express, which is a different connector standard. Again,
a low end video card should be good enough for 2D work.
I suppose there are a few video card brands and model
numbers I wouldn't buy. Newegg has some "Jetway" video cards,
and that seems to be a company that buys small lots of left
over GPUs and builds cards with them. And there are some other
cards that I wouldn't buy, because their performance level
is just too low for the money (those video cards would be kept
in my junk box).
If you know the brand and model of your motherboard, that might
help someone focus on one of the three slot types mentioned
above.
If you are looking for AGP, this article will help you figure
out which card goes with which motherboard/chipset. You should
consult the table of chipsets at the bottom of the page first,
to see whether a broad range of AGP cards can be used with your
computer or not.
http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html
If you want to buy info some hype (which is what drives the
video card industry after all), I like the look of this
product:
"Radeon X1600PRO AGP"
http://theinquirer.net/?article=29246
http://www.priceguidenetwork.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=754
This seems to go against all the advice I gave above. But
one of the things you get, is the opportunity to download
this tool:
"Avivo Video Converter" - totally CPU based...
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2645&p=3
I'd recommend getting an X1300 AGP, but there isn't one
shipping yet. There are PCI Express versions of that card
which are fanless. Gecube is supposed to have AGP versions
of the cards, but no sign of them yet. The X1300 and X1600
AGP versions, are PCI Express cards with a Rialto AGP bridge
slapped on the back. If you had an AGP 8X capable motherboard,
the cards are likely to work, and incorporate the latest
video card features, for $150 or less.
My assumption here, is that the "Avivo Video Converter" will
work in the presence of an X1300, X1600 or higher card, whether
it is on an AGP bus or a PCI Express bus. If you are in a rush,
that www.priceguidenetwork.com entry is the first X1000 series
card in AGP form seen at retail. If you have more time available
to wait for just the right video card, an X1300 AGP might be
more tuned to your application set, and run a bit cooler.
(The Gecube X1600 AGP, announced but not shipping)
http://www.gecube.com/products-detail.php?prod_cat_pid=9&prod_cat_id=141&prod_id=44728
(The Gecube X1300 AGP, announced but not shipping. Perhaps an
aftermarket cooler fitted to this could make it silent.)
http://www.gecube.com/products-detail.php?prod_cat_pid=9&prod_cat_id=142&prod_id=49921
This X1300 PCI Express model uses a passive cooling solution,
and it would be nice to be able to get the same solution
for the AGP version of the card too.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.asp?Image=14-102-622-01.jpg
Paul
K
kony
Any low-end modern video card will do this fine.
You need no particular amount of memory as that is dictated
by the monitor resolution and _all_ semi-modern cards (with
more than 16MB) have plenty of memory.
Considering that many (most now?) medium or better LCD
monitors have DVI input, it might make sense to buy the
cheapest thing that has DVI connector on it, even if your
present monitor doesn't need it... just make sure if it only
has DVI, that it has an adapter to use with DSUB-15, analog
as well.
S
Sleepy
Haggar said:
a Nvidia FX5200 or ATI 9200 of some type will be more than adequate for
those tasks.
Most have 128mb of memory which is plenty and some are 64bit, others are
128bit. 128bit is quicker but both are fine for those tasks and the 64bit
versions generally have a heatsink but no fan and so are quieter.
H
Haggar
Paul, PCI-E for me......I started with a gaming card, don't need it,
getting out of gaming, probably overdid it with board and ram too
getting out of gaming, probably overdid it with board and ram too
P
Paul
"Haggar" said:
The 6200 Turbocache cards are at the bottom of the heap.
ATI has some kind of similar invention, Hypermemory.
One of those is probably sufficient for what you are planning.
For video, the processor will continue to write to the frame
buffer that will still be housed in the onboard memory. These
kinds of cards are around $50. I prefer cards that don't use a
ribbon cable to connect the PCB to the VGA analog video connector,
but you will pay more for a full size card.
http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.aspx?i=23521
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2300
Cheapest Turbocache/Hypermemory type card with no fan. This
product doesn't have a DVI to VGA adapter plug, if you want
to run two VGA monitors off the same card. This is a full
sized card with no cheesy ribbon cable.
"HIS Hightech HX30SHH256-1TOEN Radeon X300SE 128MB onboard $50"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161155
Treat these as optional or speculative features. If you want
the ATI video conversion utility, one of these cards would
be your ticket.
This is the cheapest of the X1000 family. This one is fanless,
but will still benefit from some air movement from another
fan inside the computer. Both cards support Avivo, which
provides some kind of playback enhancements.
(AVIVO explained - via an annoying video - best with DSL/cable)
http://www.ati.com/technology/Avivo/index.html
"SAPPHIRE 100141L Radeon X1300 256MB 128-bit DDR $84"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102001
Cheapest X1000 series card with VIVO (video in video out
connectors, good for an analog video source). Also fanless and
uses heatpipe technology.
ASUS Radeon X1600XT EAX1600XT SILENT $199
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814121548
http://www.asus.com.tw/products4.aspx?l1=2&l2=8&l3=241&model=961&modelmenu=1
The $84 is a good compromise between a $50 turbocache or
hypermemory card, and an expensive video card. The Asus card
might just be too much of a good thing.
HTH,
Paul
H
Haggar
Paul, what do you think of the Radeon X1300 in a 256mb ($120.00cdn) or 512mb
($150.00cdn) configuration DDR2 Lite Retail Box...
($150.00cdn) configuration DDR2 Lite Retail Box...
P
Paul
"Haggar" said:
If you were a gamer, the 512MB version might have some merit, but
with your planned usage, even the 256MB is overkill. I'd even buy
the thing if it only had 128MB
For your usage pattern, framebuffers don't take that many MB of memory.
As for Canadian pricing, you know how we get dinged for about
10% over US retail at the best of times, so I'm not surprised
it is $120. For Internet purchases, I currently use NCIX. You
might also price the thing locally.
If this is the Sapphire 100141L, it has a good selection of
adapters in the box.
Paul
H
Haggar
Paul,, I checked NCIX, I use them quite a bit, even though I am on the East
Coast. They have the 256 model and the 512. Gues I will make up my mind.
BTW Im going to 2g ram I looked at G.Skill Extreme Series 2X1024 2.3.2.5 and
the OCZ 3.3.3.7 2g, seems the G Skill have some tighter timings, you heard
much about them??
Coast. They have the 256 model and the 512. Gues I will make up my mind.
BTW Im going to 2g ram I looked at G.Skill Extreme Series 2X1024 2.3.2.5 and
the OCZ 3.3.3.7 2g, seems the G Skill have some tighter timings, you heard
much about them??
P
Paul
"Haggar" said:
For RAM, your best best is the private forums, like xtremesystems.org
, abxzone.com, or forums.pcper.com . Also, Anandtech has had a couple
of articles comparing 2x1GB products. I try to stay away from rating
RAM, because the product may have changed since the rating was made,
and so you need information from someone who just bought the
product yesterday, to know if it is still good. Also, reviewers may
have received "cherry picked" modules, or at least in one case, the
first manufacturing lot of modules had better characteristics than
later modules. For me, it is just too much work to keep track of
If you use the Newegg site, there are customer ratings entered by
customers for the products. If there is a good or bad trend
in a product, you may spot it there. Products with up to 700 reviews
gives a good cross section of experiences. (The best ratings from
customers, are those where it looks like they know how to test
memory. I guy who just managed to boot a copy of Windows, doesn't
typically know what he has bought, and his comments could very
well be worthless. Ditto for guys who forget to set Vdimm properly
in the BIOS.)
Good luck in your search,
Paul
H
Haggar
Cheers Paul!
Paul said:For RAM, your best best is the private forums, like xtremesystems.org
, abxzone.com, or forums.pcper.com . Also, Anandtech has had a couple
of articles comparing 2x1GB products. I try to stay away from rating
RAM, because the product may have changed since the rating was made,
and so you need information from someone who just bought the
product yesterday, to know if it is still good. Also, reviewers may
have received "cherry picked" modules, or at least in one case, the
first manufacturing lot of modules had better characteristics than
later modules. For me, it is just too much work to keep track of
If you use the Newegg site, there are customer ratings entered by
customers for the products. If there is a good or bad trend
in a product, you may spot it there. Products with up to 700 reviews
gives a good cross section of experiences. (The best ratings from
customers, are those where it looks like they know how to test
memory. I guy who just managed to boot a copy of Windows, doesn't
typically know what he has bought, and his comments could very
well be worthless. Ditto for guys who forget to set Vdimm properly
in the BIOS.)
Good luck in your search,
Paul
I
ivowel
do you know if either of the x1600xt or the x1300 at newegg can drive
the dell 3007? this requires a native resolution of 2560x1600
resolution, i.e., dual-link DVI (not dual DVI). the docs are somewhat
contradictory. at some point, the claim is that all AVIVO cards are
dual-link; at another point, even the X1600XT lists a lower resolution
as its max.
regards, /iaw
the dell 3007? this requires a native resolution of 2560x1600
resolution, i.e., dual-link DVI (not dual DVI). the docs are somewhat
contradictory. at some point, the claim is that all AVIVO cards are
dual-link; at another point, even the X1600XT lists a lower resolution
as its max.
regards, /iaw
P
Paul
I cannot find an exact answer for you, as the many pieces of advertising
information do not inspire confidence in the details. Some of the
information is being copy/pasted from one document to another, without
looking at whether the information is relevant to the product or not.
To start with, look at this document and PDF page 8 (be patient and
wait for the figure on that page to appear - it'll take a moment):
http://www.ati.com/products/radeonx1k/whitepapers/X1000_Family_Technology_Overview_Whitepaper.pdf
The output stage of the X1000 family uses a crossbar. That means any channel
on the left can be connected to any output on the right. There are two DVI
output channels built into the GPU.
When a card has two DVI-I connectors, and the advertising content claims
they are both dual-link, that means a total of four channels are required.
Two of the channels can be provided by the built-in TMDS transmitters that
output the DVI signals. The other two channels would come from Silicon
Image transmitter devices, and what I cannot tell you, is whether the DVO
output is used to connect to those separate output devices or not. The
products I see on the Silicon Image web page look like single channel
devices, unless there is some kind of easy demultiplexing mode that allows
two devices to work together.
When a card has a DVI-I connector and a VGA connector, things are a bit
simpler. Both of the built-in DVI drivers can be connected to one
DVI-I output connector. There is no additional cost to the manufacturer,
as there would be if they wanted to offer dual output dual-link DVI-I.
So as long as the output stage shown in the ATI document is present on
all X1000 chips, a DVI-I/VGA/TV card should be able to do dual-link on
the DVI-I connector, at no additional cost.
To answer a question like this, you cannot rely on the folks at ATI.
They aren't the brightest bulbs after all. Instead, you are forced to
go to their partner list. I selected connect3D.com at random from
this list. (I had high hopes that Sapphire would answer this question,
but they provide very little useful info.)
https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&folderID=588
I selected this page as an example of what you'll find:
http://www.connect3d.com/products/pcie_x1800crossfire.htm
"Display Support
DVI-I connector for digital CRTs or flat panels
VGA connector for analogue display
Drive two displays simultaneously with independent resolutions and
refresh rates
Dual Link DVI-I for high-resolution digital displays
DISPLAY MODES: FEATURES
Resolutions, colors and maximum refresh rates (Hz) for 256, 65K and
16.7M colours
2D DISPLAY MODES
Monitor Resolution Hz
640x480 200
800x600 200
1024x768 200
1152x864 200
1280x1024 160
1600x1200 120
1920x1080* 16:9 120
1920x1200 100
1920x1440 90
2048x1536 85
2560c1600 60
MAXIMUM 3D RESOLUTIONS
65K colours 2048x1536
16.7M colours 2048x1536
1.07 billion colours 2560x1600 <-- does this mean 10 bit color
digitally per channel ?
* 16:9 aspect ratio monitors are supported on 1920x1080 and 848x480 on
Windows XP,
Windows 2000 and Windows ME. The complete list of resolutions depends
on the driver."
My interpretation of what I'm reading, is the VGA connector is driven by a
400MHz RAMDAC
and it has a maximum resolution of 2048x1536. Undoubtedly, the output will
suck at that
resolution and will look like hell. It really all depends what kind of job
was done by
the designers, in selecting a method for maintaining coaxial interconnect
quality, and
an ordinary VGA connector is probably not very good at that. Maybe analog
1600x1200
might be OK, but I somehow have my doubts that a 2048x1536 picture from a
VGA connector
would look very good. Call me a doubter.
The DVI-I dual link must be the thing that is rated at 2560x1600. I
interpret the
1 billion colors to mean 3 x 1024 color guns, which is 10 bits per
channel. And the
ATI whitepaper does mention 10-bit display pipelines, so that must be it.
Perhaps the confusion you are seeing when reading these advertisements,
comes from
whether they are quoting the analog VGA output, or the digital dual link
DVI output.
So, there are no guarantees. I wouldn't expect any retailer to present the
details like this (so they cannot be blamed for misrepresentation), and I
really cannot trust a Taiwanese board shop to copy and paste this information
correctly either. I guess that makes it a lot like a video card lottery.
Have a look through the Connect3D web pages and see what you think.
HTH,
Paul