Very perplexing network problem.

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pickle

Crosposted to relevent groups


I wondered if you good folks could give some ideas on a very perplexing
problem I'm having with my network at home. I am totally stumped.

The setup is as follows:
Cable modem into Linksys router
Router into Linksys hub and on to Linksys wireless hub.
Two computers running WinXP wired to hub and one laptop running Win98 on
the wireless hub.
Everything is DHCP.

A few weeks ago we noticed that the network would stop working and the
cable modem and router / hubs would have to be reset to restore
functionality.
This functionality would work for a short while and it would crap out
again. Reset again and the cycle repeated.
After a few days of this, resetting no longer worked.

The cable moden plugged direstly into one of the machines with no router
or hubs appeared to work continously and was solid.
Master Browser is off in the one machine.

I tried disconnecting all but one computer (back through the router and
hub), reset everything and it worked solid for days. Reconnect the
other computer and it would crap out.
It didn't matter WHICH computer was disconnected, the result was the same.

We had comcast come out and verify that the modem was ok. They said it
was. Signal was weak so he fixed it.

The problem persisted. We replaced the router, the hub, the NIC card in
the one computer and the problem was fixed for a day.
Now it's doing it again.

The problem MAY have started when I upgraded my mainboard on one machine
and the wife went fron WIN2000 to WINXP on the other.
We've done these upgrades before and noticed nothing unusual in either
operation this time.

Everything is so sporatic that we can't even pin down a fault machine or
operation.
It's completely eratic with no rhyme or reason to the troubleshooting
that we have done.
I wonder if the cable modem is at fault. I kind of doubt it but I want
them to replace it anyway.

I hope I explained this in a way that made sense.
Help??
 
Crosposted to relevent groups


I wondered if you good folks could give some ideas on a very perplexing
problem I'm having with my network at home. I am totally stumped.

The setup is as follows:
Cable modem into Linksys router
Router into Linksys hub and on to Linksys wireless hub.
Two computers running WinXP wired to hub and one laptop running Win98 on
the wireless hub.
Everything is DHCP.

A few weeks ago we noticed that the network would stop working and the
cable modem and router / hubs would have to be reset to restore
functionality.
This functionality would work for a short while and it would crap out
again. Reset again and the cycle repeated.
After a few days of this, resetting no longer worked.

The cable moden plugged direstly into one of the machines with no router
or hubs appeared to work continously and was solid.
Master Browser is off in the one machine.

I tried disconnecting all but one computer (back through the router and
hub), reset everything and it worked solid for days. Reconnect the
other computer and it would crap out.
It didn't matter WHICH computer was disconnected, the result was the same.

We had comcast come out and verify that the modem was ok. They said it
was. Signal was weak so he fixed it.

The problem persisted. We replaced the router, the hub, the NIC card in
the one computer and the problem was fixed for a day.
Now it's doing it again.

The problem MAY have started when I upgraded my mainboard on one machine
and the wife went fron WIN2000 to WINXP on the other.
We've done these upgrades before and noticed nothing unusual in either
operation this time.

Everything is so sporatic that we can't even pin down a fault machine or
operation.
It's completely eratic with no rhyme or reason to the troubleshooting
that we have done.
I wonder if the cable modem is at fault. I kind of doubt it but I want
them to replace it anyway.

I hope I explained this in a way that made sense.
Help??
Click to expand...

check the logs
Butterfield
 
Butterfield said:
check the logs
Butterfield
Click to expand...

Ok, I checked the Event Log.

*********************************************************************
It shows warnings of:
Your computer has automatically configured the IP address for the
Network Card with network address 0050DAC46AF2. The IP address being
used is 169.254.3.193.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
**********************************************************************
And errors of:

The IP address lease 192.168.1.100 for the Network Card with network
address 0050DAC46AF2 has been denied by the DHCP server 192.168.1.1 (The
DHCP Server sent a DHCPNACK message).

For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
**********************************************************************

To which the link points to this information:

Explanation
The DHCP Server service did not extend the lease on your computer's IP
address, so your computer temporarily lost its connection with the network.

This could be caused by a scope change. For example, when a roaming
laptop moves from one network to another, its IP address lease might
need renewal. When the DHCP Client service tries to renew the address,
that request might go to a different server that will not extend the
lease either because it does not know about this address lease or
because it has already issued the address lease to another client.

This also happens when two DHCP servers are configured to give out
addresses in the same IP address range.

User Action
No user action is required. The DHCP Client service will continue trying
to obtain a working IP address until it succeeds, and DHCP establishes
the network connection on its own.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Currently there are no Microsoft Knowledge Base articles available for
this specific error or event message. For information about other
support options you can use to find answers online, see
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx.

****************************************************************************

I'm still at a loss. I confess that I am out of my league here.
IOW...clueless.
 
pickle said:
Ok, I checked the Event Log.

*********************************************************************
It shows warnings of:
Your computer has automatically configured the IP address for the
Network Card with network address 0050DAC46AF2. The IP address being
used is 169.254.3.193.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
**********************************************************************
And errors of:

The IP address lease 192.168.1.100 for the Network Card with network
address 0050DAC46AF2 has been denied by the DHCP server 192.168.1.1 (The
DHCP Server sent a DHCPNACK message).

For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
**********************************************************************

To which the link points to this information:

Explanation
The DHCP Server service did not extend the lease on your computer's IP
address, so your computer temporarily lost its connection with the network.

This could be caused by a scope change. For example, when a roaming
laptop moves from one network to another, its IP address lease might
need renewal. When the DHCP Client service tries to renew the address,
that request might go to a different server that will not extend the
lease either because it does not know about this address lease or
because it has already issued the address lease to another client.

This also happens when two DHCP servers are configured to give out
addresses in the same IP address range.

User Action
No user action is required. The DHCP Client service will continue trying
to obtain a working IP address until it succeeds, and DHCP establishes
the network connection on its own.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Currently there are no Microsoft Knowledge Base articles available for
this specific error or event message. For information about other
support options you can use to find answers online, see
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx.

****************************************************************************


I'm still at a loss. I confess that I am out of my league here.
IOW...clueless.
Click to expand...


And BTW, I post this from the network in question. The cable modem is
plugged directly into the computer and working.
No router, no hub.
I just tried it WITH the router / hub and no joy.
Didn't work.
Should I just shoot myself now?
 
And BTW, I post this from the network in question. The cable modem is
plugged directly into the computer and working.
No router, no hub.
I just tried it WITH the router / hub and no joy.
Didn't work.
Should I just shoot myself now?
Click to expand...

I had this once and swapped out the router and sent it back to be
refurbished. If your router is not handing out i/p addresses then it
is not working. 1st: You could try doing a HARD RESET of the router
(not simply unplugging it) see if that fixes the problem or 2nd:
turning off DHCP in the router and hard code i/p addresses in your
machines. Be sure to code the DNS servers with the i/p address in
your NIC. You can get these from the settings currently in the router.


Butterfield
 
pickle said:
Ok, I checked the Event Log.

*********************************************************************
It shows warnings of:
Your computer has automatically configured the IP address for the
Network Card with network address 0050DAC46AF2. The IP address being
used is 169.254.3.193.
Click to expand...

I think that's the problem. I think it means that PC didn't get assigned a
local 192. IP address by DHCP so it assigned itself 169.etc.

Normally the router is set up to act as the DHCP server. Are you switching
off power to the router when you switch off the computer? eg all on the same
power strip? Perhaps the PC is powering up and trying to get an IP before
the router is awake?
 
pickle said:
Ok, I checked the Event Log.

*********************************************************************
It shows warnings of:
Your computer has automatically configured the IP address for the Network
Card with network address 0050DAC46AF2. The IP address being used is
169.254.3.193.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
**********************************************************************
And errors of:

The IP address lease 192.168.1.100 for the Network Card with network
address 0050DAC46AF2 has been denied by the DHCP server 192.168.1.1 (The
DHCP Server sent a DHCPNACK message).

For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
**********************************************************************

To which the link points to this information:

Explanation
The DHCP Server service did not extend the lease on your computer's IP
address, so your computer temporarily lost its connection with the
network.

This could be caused by a scope change. For example, when a roaming laptop
moves from one network to another, its IP address lease might need
renewal. When the DHCP Client service tries to renew the address, that
request might go to a different server that will not extend the lease
either because it does not know about this address lease or because it has
already issued the address lease to another client.

This also happens when two DHCP servers are configured to give out
addresses in the same IP address range.

User Action
No user action is required. The DHCP Client service will continue trying
to obtain a working IP address until it succeeds, and DHCP establishes the
network connection on its own.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Currently there are no Microsoft Knowledge Base articles available for
this specific error or event message. For information about other support
options you can use to find answers online, see
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx.

****************************************************************************

I'm still at a loss. I confess that I am out of my league here.
IOW...clueless.
Click to expand...

169.254.3.193 is an IP address allocated by windows when it can't connect to
a DHCP server.

Do you just have the router set up as a DHCP server. AFAIK the Linksys
wireless hub (do you mean wireless access point?) can also be a DHCP server.
Make sure you have it turned off. Also make sure that the wireless access
point and router don't have the same IP address (192.168.1.1 sounds like the
IP address of the router). You may need to change the IP address of the WAP
as Linksys sometimes use IP addresses in the 192.168.0.xxx range. Change it
to something like 192.168.1.150. Check if you can restrict DHCP IP
addresses allocated by the router and restrict them to something like
192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.149 so that it doesn't try to allocate the IP
address used by the WAP.

Also make sure that no PC's have internet connection sharing activated (ICS)
as you shouldn't need it with a router. ICS also acts as a DHCP server but
if all the PC's are set to receive an IP address allocated automatically
then that should be fine.

You can't have more than one DHCP server on a network.

Make sure all the PC's have the same workgroup name (go to control panel,
click on system then computer name tab). Computer description should be
unique for each PC. Workgroup should be the same. If you need to change
it, click on the change button at the bottom.

If none of that is relevant, come back and I'll have another think.
 
Butterfield said:
I had this once and swapped out the router and sent it back to be
refurbished. If your router is not handing out i/p addresses then it
is not working. 1st: You could try doing a HARD RESET of the router
(not simply unplugging it) see if that fixes the problem or 2nd:
turning off DHCP in the router and hard code i/p addresses in your
machines. Be sure to code the DNS servers with the i/p address in
your NIC. You can get these from the settings currently in the router.


Butterfield
Click to expand...

It's a whole brand new router and hub. Brand spanking new out of the
box. I too, thought router / hub prob so I bought new ones.

However, I didn't do a hard reset or go static IP. I'll try that.
Additional note:
I just (moments ago) reinstalled XP on the wifes machine. Whereas
before (unlike mine), it would not connect with the modem directly into
the NIC card (mine would), it now does. Too early in the process to
know for sure just yet, but it's different now.
Something is different.
I'm thinking a hosed XP install but I want to explore other ideas as
well because I don't know for sure yet.
NOW she tells me that she had trouble with the first XP install and
Nortons reported 89 registry errors.
That's a bit too many.
Maybe the bad XP install was reaching out and touching the rest of the
network in a not-so-good way.
Keep the ideas coming, if you don't mind. I do appreciate it.
I'll keep posting the results, good or bad for you to see if you're
interested as well for anyone else that may have similar probs.
Maybe it'll help them as well.
I'm all ears
and I thank you.
PIC
 
CWatters said:
I think that's the problem. I think it means that PC didn't get assigned a
local 192. IP address by DHCP so it assigned itself 169.etc.

Normally the router is set up to act as the DHCP server. Are you switching
off power to the router when you switch off the computer? eg all on the same
power strip? Perhaps the PC is powering up and trying to get an IP before
the router is awake?
Click to expand...

Under normal circumstances, the router / hub are on all the time,
regardless if the computer(s) are on or off.

For the purposes of resetting, the procedure I follow is:
Power off to everything.
After 60 seconds, power up the modem.
After another 60 seconds, power up the router / hubs.
After another 60 seconds, power up the computer.

Is that what you meant?

And still (all evening) only my machine with the modem directly to the
NIC card (no router, no hub).
Solid as a rock. No cutouts yet.
Still posting from the network in question.
 
Tony said:
169.254.3.193 is an IP address allocated by windows when it can't connect to
a DHCP server.

Do you just have the router set up as a DHCP server. AFAIK the Linksys
wireless hub (do you mean wireless access point?) can also be a DHCP server.
Make sure you have it turned off. Also make sure that the wireless access
point and router don't have the same IP address (192.168.1.1 sounds like the
IP address of the router). You may need to change the IP address of the WAP
as Linksys sometimes use IP addresses in the 192.168.0.xxx range. Change it
to something like 192.168.1.150. Check if you can restrict DHCP IP
addresses allocated by the router and restrict them to something like
192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.149 so that it doesn't try to allocate the IP
address used by the WAP.

Also make sure that no PC's have internet connection sharing activated (ICS)
as you shouldn't need it with a router. ICS also acts as a DHCP server but
if all the PC's are set to receive an IP address allocated automatically
then that should be fine.

You can't have more than one DHCP server on a network.

Make sure all the PC's have the same workgroup name (go to control panel,
click on system then computer name tab). Computer description should be
unique for each PC. Workgroup should be the same. If you need to change
it, click on the change button at the bottom.

If none of that is relevant, come back and I'll have another think.
Click to expand...
Workgroup names are the same. Computer descriptions are blank as I
thought these were optional.
The rest of what you said, I'll get back to you soon. Some of it is new
to me and I'll have to figure out how to do what you said.....but I will.
I will come back with the results and let you know.

Thank you. You guys are great.
PIC
 
The setup is as follows:
Cable modem into Linksys router
Router into Linksys hub and on to Linksys wireless hub.
Two computers running WinXP wired to hub and one laptop running Win98 on
the wireless hub.
Everything is DHCP.
Click to expand...

With only 2 wired computers there should be ports you can use to
plug in and eliminate 1 hub.
Butterfield
 
Butterfield said:
With only 2 wired computers there should be ports you can use to
plug in and eliminate 1 hub.
Butterfield
Click to expand...

The old one didn't but the new one does.
 
Workgroup names are the same. Computer descriptions are blank as I thought
these were optional.
Click to expand...
<SNIP>

Unless someone else knows otherwise, I believe you do need to give them
unique names. You cannot have two PC's on a network with the same name. By
all being blank, the DHCP server may be thinking computer with name "blank"
has already been allocated an IP address so it won't allocate another IP
address.

If you are still having problems, it would be helpful if you could let us
know the make and models of the router, hub and wireless (hub) access point
so I can look up the technical specs to see if anything else needs setting
up.

Hope you get it working soon!
 
<SNIP>

Unless someone else knows otherwise, I believe you do need to give them
unique names. You cannot have two PC's on a network with the same name. By
all being blank, the DHCP server may be thinking computer with name "blank"
has already been allocated an IP address so it won't allocate another IP
address.
Click to expand...

[snipped]

fwiw, on 2K and XP Pro, for two, "Computer Description" /= "Computer Name".

You must indeed have a (unique!) Computer Name, but you don't need any
Computer Description (the field that shows up as "Comment" next to the "Name"
column in Network Places)...

/daytripper
 
pickle said:
Under normal circumstances, the router / hub are on all the time,
regardless if the computer(s) are on or off.
Click to expand...

Yes that's the best scheme. Leave the modem, router and hub powered up all
the time and just switch off the PCs.
 
You must indeed have a (unique!) Computer Name,
Click to expand...

I second that.

Common practice is to set your workgroup to a collective noun (ex Flowers or
Planets) and name your PC's.... Earth, Mars Venus etc

Avoid spaces in workgroup and PC names. Some network protocols have a
problem with this (so I'm told).
 
pickle said:
However, I didn't do a hard reset or go static IP. I'll try that.
Click to expand...

You shouldn't need to set static IP but trying that might confirm that the
problem is with the allocation process.

Try numbers like..

192.168.1.103
192.168.1.104
192.168.1.105 etc

Because the route may choose 192.168.1.100 for itself
 
daytripper said:
<SNIP>

Unless someone else knows otherwise, I believe you do need to give them
unique names. You cannot have two PC's on a network with the same name.
By
all being blank, the DHCP server may be thinking computer with name
"blank"
has already been allocated an IP address so it won't allocate another IP
address.
Click to expand...

[snipped]

fwiw, on 2K and XP Pro, for two, "Computer Description" /= "Computer
Name".

You must indeed have a (unique!) Computer Name, but you don't need any
Computer Description (the field that shows up as "Comment" next to the
"Name"
column in Network Places)...

/daytripper
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, just realised my error in the first post. I meant computer
"names" not "description" should be unique in my first post. Didn't notice
what I had typed until I just re-read my original post. More care, less
Stella is called for I think!!
 
pickle said:
The old one didn't but the new one does.
Click to expand...

All suggestions have been followed. Still no joy.
I'm starting to get a bit irriteted at this thing.
Totally out of ideas.
Any more on your end anyone??

Thanks,
PIC
 
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