Using a Promise SuperSwap 1000 with a non-RAID controller

[Guest]

I was about to replace two StarTech removable drive enclosures with Promise
SuperSwap 1000's when I ran across the following in the SuperSwap
installation manual.....

-Very Important-
Only one SuperSwap 1000 per RAID controller channel can be used. Set the
master/slave configuration for the hard drive being installed in a
SuperSwap 1000 carrier as a MASTER DRIVE.

They appear to be RAID-specific instructions but I don't want to make
assumptions that could get me in trouble.

I'm using a Promise Ultra 133 TX2 controller in one machine, and an Promise
Ultra 100 in another. Would I be correct in assuming that the drive used
in a SuperSwap 1000 "can" in fact be set as a "slave" as long as it's
connected to either of these non-RAID Promise controllers?

Thanks,
Frank

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

I was about to replace two StarTech removable drive enclosures with Promise
SuperSwap 1000's when I ran across the following in the SuperSwap
installation manual.....

-Very Important-

Only one SuperSwap 1000 per RAID controller channel can be used.

The question here is: why?

Set the master/slave configuration for the hard drive being installed in
a SuperSwap 1000 carrier as a MASTER DRIVE.

They appear to be RAID-specific instructions

Or just that the SuperSwap adds a stub to the cabling and should therefor
only be used at the end of a cable and that limits it to only one per cable.

but I don't want to make assumptions that could get me in trouble.

Depends on what you want to do with those assumptions.
Are you planning on running two SuperSwaps from one cable?

I'm using a Promise Ultra 133 TX2 controller in one machine, and an Promise
Ultra 100 in another.

Then why use SuperSwaps?

Would I be correct in assuming that the drive used
in a SuperSwap 1000 "can" in fact be set as a "slave" as long as it's
connected to either of these non-RAID Promise controllers?

That depends on what the electronics in the SuperSwap dock does, whe-
ther it is switched in parallel with the IDE cable or that the electronics
behave like a bridge, with IDE in (host side) and IDE out (drive side).
In the latter case the SuperSwap electronics itself may demand that the
drive is set as Master.

 

[Guest]

The question here is: why?

I can't answer that, but assume each port on a (Promise) RAID controller
expects to handle only one hard disk.

Or just that the SuperSwap adds a stub to the cabling and should therefor
only be used at the end of a cable and that limits it to only one per cable.

I don't know, that's why I'm asking. I've emailed Promise support two days
ago, but no reply as of yet.

Depends on what you want to do with those assumptions.
Are you planning on running two SuperSwaps from one cable?

No. Just one SuperSwap (as slave) and one internal drive (as master).

What I have are two dual-boot machines (XP Pro + W98SE), each with one
internal hard disk. The disk is partitioned to accommodate each OS and has
several logical drives to store data. This disk is connected as a master
drive to the primary port of a standard Ultra ATA Promise controller
(mentioned previously). I don't use the secondary port because I want to
hold that port open should I decide to add another internal disk or disks
in the future.

Each machine now has one StarTech removable drive housing, it is connected
as a slave on the same cable used by the internal disk. I only insert the
drawer (containing the 2nd disk) into the housing when I need to make
backups of the internal disk, then I remove it and store it offline.

Essentially I have two machines, each with the same brand drive enclosure,
but only one drawer (and disk) that I use to hold backups from both
machines. This has been working well.

Then why use SuperSwaps?

I want to change to SuperSwap's because when I first set up the machines
with StarTech DRW115ATA enclosures, one of the drawers was defective and
ruined a new Western Digital disk (it seemed to have intermittent good/bad
connections). This did not inspire confidence with me as to the quality of
the StarTech enclosure, particularly with the connections and the ribbon
cable arrangement they use in it. Ever since then I feel like I'm walking
on thin ice every time I make backups and simply want to upgrade to a
better quality enclosure. I've never had a problem with Promise
controllers, and the SuperSwap seems to have a much better arrangement
regarding connections, especially the way the drive connects to the
drawer/carrier.

Also, because my drive is not in the machine most of the time, I like the
spring loaded door on the SuperSwap that closes the drive bay hole when the
drawer is removed. It looks a lot nicer than the foam insulation I've been
stuffing into the StarTech's hole

That depends on what the electronics in the SuperSwap dock does, whe-
ther it is switched in parallel with the IDE cable or that the electronics
behave like a bridge, with IDE in (host side) and IDE out (drive side).
In the latter case the SuperSwap electronics itself may demand that the
drive is set as Master.

And that's why I'm asking. Their instructions are ambiguous regarding the
use of a non-RAID controller. The below snip from their manual led me to
believe the unit can be used with a non-RAID controller (particularly the
last sentence), but without having the ability to hot swap.

"SuperSwap 1000's drive carrier and housing extend the data storage
capabilities of your system by allowing you to easily swap most 3.5" form
factor ATA hard drives in and out of your computer, without the hassle of
opening and closing your computer's cabinet. SuperSwap 1000 accepts Ultra
ATA drives. When used with Promise Technology's ATA RAID 1, 3, or 5
products1, SuperSwap 1000 allows users to "hot swap" a failed drive
without powering down a system while fully protecting hard drive and
internal system components."

But like you, and given the notation titled "Very Important" that I posted
from elsewhere in their manual, I was concerned about the SuperSwap's
electronics somehow preventing its use as a slave even though the above
snippet infers the unit works with a non-RAID controller but without hot
swap ability.

In essence their manual says hot swap ability will be lost when a non-RAID
controller is used, but it doesn't say you gain the option of using it as a
slave. My gut says it can be used as a slave, but I'm not about to risk my
only backups testing this notion

Thanks,
Frank

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

I can't answer that, but assume each port on a (Promise) RAID controller
expects to handle only one hard disk.

Presumably the costlier ones that Promise say it is compatible with.

I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

Yeah, but it takes to meet someone that has made it his business to find out
by closely examining the product.

I've emailed Promise support two days ago, but no reply as of yet.


No. Just one SuperSwap (as slave) and one internal drive (as master).

The problem is rather similar unless you keep a device in the dock at all time,
even if it is not in use.

What I have are two dual-boot machines (XP Pro + W98SE), each with one
internal hard disk. The disk is partitioned to accommodate each OS and has
several logical drives to store data. This disk is connected as a master
drive to the primary port of a standard Ultra ATA Promise controller
(mentioned previously).

I don't use the secondary port because I want to hold that port open
should I decide to add another internal disk or disks in the future.

That's not wise, see below.

Each machine now has one StarTech removable drive housing, it is connected
as a slave on the same cable used by the internal disk. I only insert the
drawer (containing the 2nd disk) into the housing when I need to make
backups of the internal disk, then I remove it and store it offline.

Essentially I have two machines, each with the same brand drive enclosure,
but only one drawer (and disk) that I use to hold backups from both
machines. This has been working well.


I want to change to SuperSwap's because when I first set up the machines
with StarTech DRW115ATA enclosures, one of the drawers was defective and
ruined a new Western Digital disk (it seemed to have intermittent good/bad
connections). This did not inspire confidence with me as to the quality of
the StarTech enclosure, particularly with the connections and the ribbon
cable arrangement they use in it. Ever since then I feel like I'm walking
on thin ice every time I make backups and simply want to upgrade to a
better quality enclosure.

I've never had a problem with Promise controllers, and the SuperSwap
seems to have a much better arrangement regarding connections, especially
the way the drive connects to the drawer/carrier.

There are similar ones but without the extra logic.

Also, because my drive is not in the machine most of the time,

That's a No No if you have more than one drive on the cable.

I like the spring loaded door on the SuperSwap that closes the drive
bay hole when the drawer is removed. It looks a lot nicer than the
foam insulation I've been stuffing into the StarTech's hole


And that's why I'm asking.

Their instructions are ambiguous regarding the use of a non-RAID controller.

Yes. Plus the website gives the impression that it should only be used with the
Promise RAID controllers.

The below snip from their manual led me to
believe the unit can be used with a non-RAID controller (particularly the
last sentence), but without having the ability to hot swap.

"SuperSwap 1000's drive carrier and housing extend the data storage
capabilities of your system by allowing you to easily swap most 3.5" form
factor ATA hard drives in and out of your computer, without the hassle of
opening and closing your computer's cabinet. SuperSwap 1000 accepts Ultra
ATA drives. When used with Promise Technology's ATA RAID 1, 3, or 5
products, SuperSwap 1000 allows users to "hot swap" a failed drive
without powering down a system while fully protecting hard drive and
internal system components."

But like you, and given the notation titled "Very Important" that I posted
from elsewhere in their manual, I was concerned about the SuperSwap's
electronics somehow preventing its use as a slave even though the above
snippet infers the unit works with a non-RAID controller but without hot
swap ability.

In essence their manual says hot swap ability will be lost when a non-RAID
controller is used, but it doesn't say you gain the option of using it as a
slave.

My gut says it can be used as a slave, but I'm not about to risk my
only backups testing this notion

Uh, then how do you make current backups?

 

[Guest]

Presumably the costlier ones that Promise say it is compatible with.



Yeah, but it takes to meet someone that has made it his business to find out
by closely examining the product.

I believe I've read a post or two here by someone from Promise. Was hoping
the name in the subject header might catch his/her eye.<g>

At this point I would settle for comments from anyone who's actually used a
SuperSwap 1000 successfully or unsuccessfully as a slave with a non-RAID
controller. Surely this can't be a unique situation..... anyone?

The problem is rather similar unless you keep a device in the dock at all time,
even if it is not in use.



That's not wise, see below.



There are similar ones but without the extra logic.

Nevertheless I have two SuperSwap 1000s sitting in front of me to contend
with.

That's a No No if you have more than one drive on the cable.

There are two drives - 1 master, 1 slave. The slave in the removable
enclosure gets inserted only when needed for backups, otherwise it's a
single disk system. The Promise BIOS detects one drive when one is present,
and two when two are present. The OS's don't balk when I add/remove the
slave drive, I've given some attention to configuring the drive letters in
both OSs and have no problems in that regard (if that's what you mean by a
No No). Both machines have the same motherboard and use the same final
BIOS revision. I haven't had any problems, at least none that I know

Yes. Plus the website gives the impression that it should only be used with the
Promise RAID controllers.



Uh, then how do you make current backups?

Power down, slide the removable disk (slave) into the drive bay enclosure
(currently a StarTech enclosure), power up, then make backups of all
partitions on the internal drive (the master) to the slave, using Ghost 9.
Power down, remove the slave, business as usual with a single drive. Then
I do the same with the other machine.

I do, however, believe my transfer rate may suffer by copying from a master
to a slave on the same channel. But for me the speeds are acceptable, appx
40 minutes for a full backup.

Thanks,
Frank

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Here is my post again.
This time, try and suppress the urge to rant and spend some time interpreting what I said first.

I can't answer that, but assume each port on a (Promise) RAID controller
expects to handle only one hard disk.

Presumably the costlier ones that Promise say it is compatible with.

I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

Yeah, but it takes to meet someone that has made it his business to find out
by closely examining the product.

I've emailed Promise support two days ago, but no reply as of yet.


No. Just one SuperSwap (as slave) and one internal drive (as master).

The problem is rather similar unless you keep a device in the dock at all time,
even if it is not in use.

What I have are two dual-boot machines (XP Pro + W98SE), each with one
internal hard disk. The disk is partitioned to accommodate each OS and has
several logical drives to store data. This disk is connected as a master
drive to the primary port of a standard Ultra ATA Promise controller
(mentioned previously).

I don't use the secondary port because I want to hold that port open
should I decide to add another internal disk or disks in the future.

That's not wise, see below.

Each machine now has one StarTech removable drive housing, it is connected
as a slave on the same cable used by the internal disk. I only insert the
drawer (containing the 2nd disk) into the housing when I need to make
backups of the internal disk, then I remove it and store it offline.

Essentially I have two machines, each with the same brand drive enclosure,
but only one drawer (and disk) that I use to hold backups from both
machines. This has been working well.


I want to change to SuperSwap's because when I first set up the machines
with StarTech DRW115ATA enclosures, one of the drawers was defective and
ruined a new Western Digital disk (it seemed to have intermittent good/bad
connections). This did not inspire confidence with me as to the quality of
the StarTech enclosure, particularly with the connections and the ribbon
cable arrangement they use in it. Ever since then I feel like I'm walking
on thin ice every time I make backups and simply want to upgrade to a
better quality enclosure.

I've never had a problem with Promise controllers, and the SuperSwap
seems to have a much better arrangement regarding connections, especially
the way the drive connects to the drawer/carrier.

There are similar ones but without the extra logic.

Also, because my drive is not in the machine most of the time,

That's a No No if you have more than one drive on the cable.

I like the spring loaded door on the SuperSwap that closes the drive
bay hole when the drawer is removed. It looks a lot nicer than the
foam insulation I've been stuffing into the StarTech's hole


And that's why I'm asking.

Their instructions are ambiguous regarding the use of a non-RAID controller.

Yes. Plus the website gives the impression that it should only be used with the
Promise RAID controllers.

The below snip from their manual led me to
believe the unit can be used with a non-RAID controller (particularly the
last sentence), but without having the ability to hot swap.

"SuperSwap 1000's drive carrier and housing extend the data storage
capabilities of your system by allowing you to easily swap most 3.5" form
factor ATA hard drives in and out of your computer, without the hassle of
opening and closing your computer's cabinet. SuperSwap 1000 accepts Ultra
ATA drives. When used with Promise Technology's ATA RAID 1, 3, or 5
products, SuperSwap 1000 allows users to "hot swap" a failed drive
without powering down a system while fully protecting hard drive and
internal system components."

But like you, and given the notation titled "Very Important" that I posted
from elsewhere in their manual, I was concerned about the SuperSwap's
electronics somehow preventing its use as a slave even though the above
snippet infers the unit works with a non-RAID controller but without hot
swap ability.

In essence their manual says hot swap ability will be lost when a non-RAID
controller is used, but it doesn't say you gain the option of using it as a
slave.

My gut says it can be used as a slave, but I'm not about to risk my
only backups testing this notion

Uh, then how do you make current backups?

 

[Guest]

Here is my post again.
This time, try and suppress the urge to rant and spend some time interpreting what I said first.

My interpretation is that you haven't an answer for the question I first
asked. Thanks anyway for your time.