using a gaming card for 3D modeling

  • Thread starter Thread starter zlo
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zlo

Would my 9700 Pro work effectively for me if i get into 3d
modeling/animation? I've read about workstation cards that are designed for
it, but what's the difference, and why wouldn't a mainstream gaming card
handle the realtime 3D just as well as a workstation card?
 
zlo said:
Would my 9700 Pro work effectively for me if i get into 3d
modeling/animation? I've read about workstation cards that are designed
for it, but what's the difference, and why wouldn't a mainstream gaming
card handle the realtime 3D just as well as a workstation card?
Click to expand...

Not just as well, no. They're geared up around different things.

Many applications will support OpenGL or DirectX Acceleration, so yes, the
3D features of your card are likely to be used, and performance is likely to
be acceptable. It all depends on the software you're using, and the
complexity of the models you wish to do, and the type of rendering too.

Ben
 
Those high priced workstation cards are more specialized in design and
support.
They would have more cutting edge features/architecture and more cache
(large die size), making them too expensive
for selling to the mass public.

Where as your ATI 9700 was designed to keep cost down (smaller die
size) for mass marketing.
(Even through the 9700 seem expensive to "us" mass public)
ATI has to keep their cards more backward compatible,
so they can not do too many radical changes to it's architecture.
Click to expand...

The "high priced workstation cards" these days are often the same
hardware as the gaming boards but with different firmware. For example
the Radeon 9700 and 9800 can be soft-modded to FireGL.
 
Maya, 3D studio max, plasma, and lightwave for the most part on xp pro. i
will probably be creating models with a lot of geometry since i like detail
and accuracy, and textures with a lot of properties including bumpmapping. i
would like to be able to view as many effects in the model/animation as i
can in realtime so i can get a good idea of how it is really supposed to
look
 
MAYA? you need firegl or similar....tell me how does one afford to buy 10000$ software but has to skimp on the hardware to use it
with?


zlo said:
Maya, 3D studio max, plasma, and lightwave for the most part on xp pro. i
will probably be creating models with a lot of geometry since i like detail
and accuracy, and textures with a lot of properties including bumpmapping. i
would like to be able to view as many effects in the model/animation as i
can in realtime so i can get a good idea of how it is really supposed to
look
Click to expand...
 
Those high priced workstation cards are more specialized in design and
support.
They would have more cutting edge features/architecture and more cache
(large die size), making them too expensive
for selling to the mass public.

Where as your ATI 9700 was designed to keep cost down (smaller die size) for
mass marketing.
(Even through the 9700 seem expensive to "us" mass public)
ATI has to keep their cards more backward compatible,
so they can not do too many radical changes to it's architecture.
 
MAYA? you need firegl or similar....tell me how does one afford to buy 10000$ software but has to skimp on the hardware to use it
with?
Click to expand...

Ya know, UT2K3 includes a pretty useful Maya Learning Edition. Which
will work fine on a 9700.
I've got a hrm hoo version of 3dsMAX 4.1 which worked fine even with a
GeForce3, of course I was only working on models with up to around 5000
polys, which is nothing by todays standards.
 
J.Clarke said:
The "high priced workstation cards" these days are often the same
hardware as the gaming boards but with different firmware. For example
the Radeon 9700 and 9800 can be soft-modded to FireGL.
Click to expand...

I was wondering when somebody was going to bring that up ;>)
 
I went to your link..... that kind of modding is crazy.... I would
much rather buy a 2000$ card, and write it off as an business
expense, than to approach that kind of modding.....like I
said....professional people aren't going to do this (at least not on a
primary rendering machine) as their mortgage payment is coming from
their production...


<The "high priced workstation cards" these days are often the same
hardware as the gaming boards but with different firmware. For
example the Radeon 9700 and 9800 can be soft-modded to FireGL.>

advocating?
Click to expand...

A statement of fact is not advocacy. Read the reviews--the nvidia and
ATI "high end workstation cards" have the same NV35 and R360 chips that
are on the gaming boards. The difference is for the most part the
programming of those chips. The 3dLabs boards are different--3dLabs has
their own chip design that they don't sell in a gaming board.

If you will go over to newegg and compare the ATI Radeon boards they
sell to the FireGL boards you'll find that the boards are physically
identical with the exception that the FireGL uses heat sinks on the RAM
and has a daughterboard that provides the second DVI connector--you can
see the header for that board on the Radeon board.

The same is true for the Geforce FX 5800 vs the Quadro 2000--same
identical board, minor changes to accommodate the second DVI.

At one time "workstation boards" did have very different hardware from
desktop boards--economies of scale being what they are and the gaming
market being as demanding as it is, that's no longer the case. Now it's
all in the microcode. There's no reason that the same board can't be
sold to both markets with a jumper to select which microcode to run, and
eventually that is probably what is going to happen.
 
well if your 'fooling' around with animation or video editing then go ahead and use 'questionable' hardware by all means, but nobody
in their right mind, would try such things when their lively hood comes from their production....I do not believe a 'modded' card
will out perform/perform as good as, a card that was designed for specific use.
 
I didn't see anyone here advocating the mod, just stating that it was
possible. And the benchmarks do show a serious improvement in performance
using pro apps.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/news6109.html

People who have tried it report both good experiences and bad:

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthr...e900776c&threadid=33658209&highlight=fire+mod

JAD said:
well if your 'fooling' around with animation or video editing then go
Click to expand...
ahead and use 'questionable' hardware by all means, but nobody
in their right mind, would try such things when their lively hood comes
Click to expand...
from their production....I do not believe a 'modded' card
 
I went to your link..... that kind of modding is crazy.... I would much rather buy a 2000$ card, and write it off as an business
expense, than to approach that kind of modding.....like I said....professional people aren't going to do this (at least not on a
primary rendering machine) as their mortgage payment is coming from their production...


<The "high priced workstation cards" these days are often the same
hardware as the gaming boards but with different firmware. For example
the Radeon 9700 and 9800 can be soft-modded to FireGL.>

advocating?

<and textures with a lot of properties including bumpmapping. i
would like to be able to view as many effects in the model/animation as i
can in realtime so i can get a good idea of how it is really supposed to
look>

not going to happen unless a professional card is used.
 
I play around with my trial version of 3ds max and the Maya Learning
edition. I am running a Radeon8500 and it works ok. Slows down when using
heavy polygon modles and rendeing time is stupidly slow, but it works.

If you're just "playing around" or learning the software, you should be more
than fine with a 9700Pro.
 
As of October 17th, 2003 Maya is free for "personal learning uses".
No
longer limited to just the personal edition on the UT2k3 CD3, you can
now get the latest versions of Maya in personal editions.
Click to expand...

There has been a "Personal Learning Edition" of Maya for years as a free
download from their site. While it is the full product, it is crippled
in several ways. It puts a watermark on the output, uses a nonstandard
file format, cannot make use of multiple processors, there are some
other limitations on the renderer, the rest of the list you can see at
<http://www.alias.com/eng/products-services/maya/maya_ple/faq.shtml>.
While these should not be problems for someone learning to run the
product, they are serious limitations when one is trying to actually use
it for anything.

In any case, there is a list of supported hardware on the alias site
with descriptions of the problems one may encounter--there are only 3 or
4 boards that are listed as supported with no issues, and they are all
Quadros, but not all Quadros run without issues. Note that this is not
a matter of being a "workstation board"--there are currently no SGI
machines that run without issues, and SGI video is most assuredly
"workstation quality", nor are there any ATI boards or 3dLabs boards
that run without issues. And it's not a matter of nvidia being superior
in some way--the Geforce boards are specifically not supported, while
some Radeon models are with limitations. I suspect that the machines
they used during development had Quadros and so that is the most
thoroughly debugged configuration.

In answer to the OP's question, his best bet would probably be a Quadro4
700XGL--it's the least expensive board that runs without
limitations (under XP only--qualification under 2K is in progress) and
it costs only slightly more than a 9800 Pro.

But any board should work using the software renderers. Personally I'd
keep what I had and use the software renderer until it started giving me
some grief. If I ever went to the commercial package then getting a few
extra bucks for a Quadro FX 3000 out of the venture capitalists or the
bank should be no problem.
 
As of October 17th, 2003 Maya is free for "personal learning uses". No
longer limited to just the personal edition on the UT2k3 CD3, you can now
get the latest versions of Maya in personal editions.

JAD said:
MAYA? you need firegl or similar....tell me how does one afford to buy
Click to expand...
10000$ software but has to skimp on the hardware to use it
with?
Click to expand...
 
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