USB hubs

  • Thread starter Thread starter Loren Pechtel
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Loren Pechtel

Does anyone make a good, reliable USB 3.0 hub that goes in a drive
bay? Everything I find has reviews that stink.
 
Loren said:
Does anyone make a good, reliable USB 3.0 hub that goes in a drive
bay? Everything I find has reviews that stink.
Click to expand...

The Hub design, can only be as good as the chip inside it.

This article, mentions TI makes a USB3 hub chip, as well as VIA.
But the article is from 2010, so hopefully there are more sources
by now.

http://semiaccurate.com/2010/09/29/ti-shows-four-usb3-chips/

You'd need to examine the bad designs, and see if they all used
the same chip or not. (There aren't a lot of 5.25" bay designs
on Newegg, and, no good pictures either.)

USB3 uses super-high-speed electrical signals, and if
the designer makes a cheap non-compliant PCB, that
could cause problems as well. A slight non-compliance,
could cause more data retransmissions (that is, if
the protocol supports it).

When you install USB3 in the computer itself (built-in USB3
on motherboard chipset, separate NEC chip, separate plug-in card),
if you have an older OS, there is a driver package to install.
On a much later OS, the driver package may be built-in.
If your hub has problems, the problems might actually
trace back to the driver package used for the
computer end of the problem. If the drivers for the
motherboard or add-in card aren't good, maybe you'll
get a "dong loop" when connecting the hub. If so,
it might not be the actual hub design, which is bad.
It could be the original third-party drivers you added.

Paul
 
The Hub design, can only be as good as the chip inside it.

This article, mentions TI makes a USB3 hub chip, as well as VIA.
But the article is from 2010, so hopefully there are more sources
by now.

http://semiaccurate.com/2010/09/29/ti-shows-four-usb3-chips/

You'd need to examine the bad designs, and see if they all used
the same chip or not. (There aren't a lot of 5.25" bay designs
on Newegg, and, no good pictures either.)

USB3 uses super-high-speed electrical signals, and if
the designer makes a cheap non-compliant PCB, that
could cause problems as well. A slight non-compliance,
could cause more data retransmissions (that is, if
the protocol supports it).

When you install USB3 in the computer itself (built-in USB3
on motherboard chipset, separate NEC chip, separate plug-in card),
if you have an older OS, there is a driver package to install.
On a much later OS, the driver package may be built-in.
If your hub has problems, the problems might actually
trace back to the driver package used for the
computer end of the problem. If the drivers for the
motherboard or add-in card aren't good, maybe you'll
get a "dong loop" when connecting the hub. If so,
it might not be the actual hub design, which is bad.
It could be the original third-party drivers you added.
Click to expand...

I haven't actually bought a 3.0 hub. It's just I found myself wanting
3.0 ports on the front panel and I've got a space a hub could go in--I
would have thought that was a perfect combination. It's just that
when I read the reviews I find the hardware is junk--things like early
deaths. That's not a bad driver.

I even found one external hub that committed the old sin of feeding
voltage back along the link to the computer. Some machines won't POST
with such a misbehaving hub plugged in and in my experience the port
they are plugged into tends to fail in time.
 
Loren said:
I haven't actually bought a 3.0 hub. It's just I found myself wanting
3.0 ports on the front panel and I've got a space a hub could go in--I
would have thought that was a perfect combination. It's just that
when I read the reviews I find the hardware is junk--things like early
deaths. That's not a bad driver.

I even found one external hub that committed the old sin of feeding
voltage back along the link to the computer. Some machines won't POST
with such a misbehaving hub plugged in and in my experience the port
they are plugged into tends to fail in time.
Click to expand...

An external hub, with a separate power supply, should use something
like a relay to prevent backfeed. The relay opens, whenever the AC
adapter is inserted, such that backfeed can't happen. When the
AC adapter isn't powered, then the relay switches back to using VBUS.

I found that in an application note, that tells you how to design
USB2 external hubs (ones that come with their own power adapter).

*******

The only "early death" scenario I can envision on USB3, would be
if inappropriate voltages appear on the high speed diff pair data
signals. And the mechanical details of the connector design,
should be preventing most of that. Only a motivated individual
with a piece of wire in hand, might manage to attach a wrong
voltage to one of those pins. Normal handling should not do it.
And, to some extent, there should be clamp diodes on the bus
signals, to protect against a bit of static discharge. On the USB2
designs, for example Intel, they could take 5 to 6 kV on the data
pins, from ESD (human body model). Which is pretty high by normal
standards. I haven't seen a figure expressed for USB3, but it's
likely a lot lower value of protection. The more protection, the
higher the capacitance associated with the protection device, and
it ruins the signal quality if you use "too good" a form of static
protection. It involves trade-offs.

That being said, if I was fitting USB3 to the front of the chassis,
I would try to use a *metal* tray that makes contact with the chassis.
The idea is, to drain the shield of the USB connector on the tray, into
the chassis. On lots of computer cases, the front panel is made from
plastic, and that's a horrible choice of materials for preventing ESD
problems. The rear I/O connector area (that metal plate), is there
to encourage a short ESD discharge path, into the chassis. It
isn't absolute protection, but it helps. The front of the computer,
is poorly designed by comparison. As most use plastic on the
front. An ESD discharge, then is forced to flow down the
internal cabling, and into the motherboard. The induced voltage
(by transformer action, in the cable), causes ESD to also appear
on the data signal wires. That's my suspicion how it gets blown.

Even USB2 chips have had problems like that. Check with an
owner of a NEC USB2 chip equipped PCI card, and chances are
that one or two ports are blown on it. Some chips seem to hold
up better than others. The NEC chip, is otherwise a good buy
(driver compatibility). And if you blow all the ports on it,
it's $10-$15 for another one.

Paul
 
Robin said:
I have a dual-port USB card that fits into a pci slot. Very fast and
works perfectly.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/TeckNet-Int...Y9FK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1354810688&sr=8-1
(Amazon UK)
Click to expand...

On the same theme, I notice they make chips now, that go from
PCI Express x1 slot to 4 USB3 ports. This is the NEC one, but
there is one other brand as well.

http://www.renesas.com/products/soc/usb_assp/product/upd720201/index.jsp

As a result, they can do cards like this. This fits in a PCI
Express x1 slot, and gives two external ports (on the back
of the computer), and via a tray mount extension, gives two
more ports on the front of the computer. I was not able
to find a card that consisted of only internal ports (so
you could do four on the front of the computer).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1JM0FD7215

The only place I could find an extension cable for the
motherboard USB3 (pin) header, was something like this. Which
might be another ugly way to place a connector somewhere.
The faceplate unscrews, but you may have to do some
machining to mount it somewhere. I saw another one with
a slightly longer cable. The cable on this might be too
short to be useful.

http://us.estore.asus.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=4699

Paul
 
On the same theme, I notice they make chips now, that go from
PCI Express x1 slot to 4 USB3 ports. This is the NEC one, but
there is one other brand as well.

http://www.renesas.com/products/soc/usb_assp/product/upd720201/index.jsp

As a result, they can do cards like this. This fits in a PCI
Express x1 slot, and gives two external ports (on the back
of the computer), and via a tray mount extension, gives two
more ports on the front of the computer. I was not able
to find a card that consisted of only internal ports (so
you could do four on the front of the computer).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1JM0FD7215

The only place I could find an extension cable for the
motherboard USB3 (pin) header, was something like this. Which
might be another ugly way to place a connector somewhere.
The faceplate unscrews, but you may have to do some
machining to mount it somewhere. I saw another one with
a slightly longer cable. The cable on this might be too
short to be useful.

http://us.estore.asus.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=4699

Paul
Click to expand...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815150170

PCI slot, one port on the back, 4 in a drive bay. Read the reviews,
though.
 
Loren said:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815150170

PCI slot, one port on the back, 4 in a drive bay. Read the reviews,
though.
Click to expand...

Yes, but that one, is a controller chip plus a hub chip, like this.
If you have a phobia about "hub-chip", this isn't for you.

PCI-E x1 ------- two-port USB3 --------- External connector, back
host controller ---+
|
cable
|
+--- hub-chip ---- bay port #1
---- bay port #2
---- bay port #3
---- bay port #4

The one I was showing, was a four port controller based design,
which works like this. There's no chip at all in the tray mounted
portion. Just connectors.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1JM0FD7215

PCI-E x1 ------- four-port USB3 ------ External, back, Port #1
host controller ------ External, back, Port #2
----+
--+ |
| +--- Bay connector #3
+----- Bay connector #4

The difference in the latter one, is no hub-chip.

Paul
 
Loren said:
I don't have a phobia about a hub chip, I just want one that's built
well.


At least that doesn't have stinky reviews. On the other hand it seems
to have none at all anywhere.
Click to expand...

It's not really a Newegg product. Some of the Newegg listings
now, are from third-parties. A-la Amazon approach.

If you can find a card with at least one internal connector,
maybe you can cook up some kind of solution that avoids
hub chips.

Paul
 
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