USB HD no longer recognized!

[google3luo359]

I bought a new 80G Toshiba 2.5" HD to use as a backup USB drive for my
ancient desktop.
I run Win 98SE on the 233Mhz desktop.

At first the desktop couldn't see more than 10G of the USB drive.
Someone suggested updating the Fdisk to a newer version.
I did and bingo, it could now see 80G.

I partitioned the drive into 4 partitions and started transfering files
from the desktop to the USB drive. I did it a little bit at a time for
a few weeks. I must have transferred files for a total of three or four
sessions, with no problems.

Then today I plug in the USB drive and no go!
The desktop sees a USB drive, but it's only 10G again, and there is
nothing on the drive !!!!!

Someone please help me!
I didn't backup those files, I transferred them to clear out space on
my desktop HD.

Please tell me what I should try, ending as a very last resort with
Fdisk-ing the HD.

Thanks!

Ric

 

[Curious George]

Then today I plug in the USB drive and no go!
The desktop sees a USB drive, but it's only 10G again, and there is
nothing on the drive !!!!!

Have you tried a scandisk or norton disk doctor? IIRC Norton works
better with borked partitions.

Someone please help me!
I didn't backup those files, I transferred them to clear out space on
my desktop HD.

Don't mean to be a PITA but from now on PLEASE make sure you NEVER
have only 1 copy of any piece of data - unless you don't care if you
loose it.

If you can't afford to backup all your data (pref min of 3 copies
spread out over time and at least one of those in a different place)
you should try to reduce the amount of data you keep, rather than
skimping on backup. (BTW Reducing data can also make backup cheaper)

Please tell me what I should try, ending as a very last resort with
Fdisk-ing the HD.

Please don't re-Fdisk. Fdisk -mbr won't help either. You need to
find a way to recover a corrupt partition.

If the tools I mentioned don't work try dome data recovery programs.
(actually you should probably try those first. The last thing you
want to do is to break the disk further trying to fix it.)

 

[Arno Wagner]

I bought a new 80G Toshiba 2.5" HD to use as a backup USB drive for my
ancient desktop.
I run Win 98SE on the 233Mhz desktop.

At first the desktop couldn't see more than 10G of the USB drive.
Someone suggested updating the Fdisk to a newer version.
I did and bingo, it could now see 80G.

I partitioned the drive into 4 partitions and started transfering files
from the desktop to the USB drive. I did it a little bit at a time for
a few weeks. I must have transferred files for a total of three or four
sessions, with no problems.

Then today I plug in the USB drive and no go!
The desktop sees a USB drive, but it's only 10G again, and there is
nothing on the drive !!!!!

Someone please help me!
I didn't backup those files, I transferred them to clear out space on
my desktop HD.

They could not have been important if you have only this one copy,
now can they? Sotty, but I think you just learned a valuable lesson.

If you can spend the money, try a data recovery outfit. Has a
reasonable chance of bringing back some of your data.

My guess as to the actual problem is that Win98 never saw more than
the small amount of space and that in you last session you managed
to fill that up and windows started writing an the beginning of the
disk, overwriting all the meta-information, file-allocation table and
main directory. If I remember correctly, this is a known problem,
also with large disk sizes and XP (without service pack).

This also means that some of your data is likely irretrivably lost.

Please tell me what I should try, ending as a very last resort with
Fdisk-ing the HD.

I think you can forget about fdisk'ing again, since it will just
re-create the original problem. Better check whether the enclosure
manufacturer offers drivers for win98, and if it does not, you
might have to update the OS or, e.g., use Linux (e.g. in the form of
Knoppix) to copy your files to the USB enclosure.

Arno

 

[Arno Wagner]

On 28 Dec 2005 17:49:15 -0800, (e-mail address removed) wrote:

Have you tried a scandisk or norton disk doctor? IIRC Norton works
better with borked partitions.

Don't mean to be a PITA but from now on PLEASE make sure you NEVER
have only 1 copy of any piece of data - unless you don't care if you
loose it.

If you can't afford to backup all your data (pref min of 3 copies
spread out over time and at least one of those in a different place)

For low- to medium-importanec files you can get away with just one
copy, but it should be on a backup medium (MOD, professional tape),
known to work reliably. The problem with HDDs is that they have
some failure modes that make data recovery very problematic.

For really important stuff you should allways have at least
2 copies in different places and check them for errors regularly.
BTW, a working copy (on disk) does not count as a backup copy
in this.

Arno

 

[Curious George]

For low- to medium-importanec files you can get away with just one
copy, but it should be on a backup medium (MOD, professional tape),
known to work reliably. The problem with HDDs is that they have
some failure modes that make data recovery very problematic.

For really important stuff you should allways have at least
2 copies in different places and check them for errors regularly.
BTW, a working copy (on disk) does not count as a backup copy
in this.

Arno

Well I don't really disagree but that's a preference. Everyone will
have their own idea of a "safe minimal protection" or "best practice."

My personal threshold for loss is a little lower. For me _anything_
that requires time expenditure or is an inconvenience/ PITA caused by
loss requires good protection (no matter how "important" or "valuable"
- or not - I consider the data). I also find it generally
impractical & unnecessary to maintain a multi-tiered backup strategy
in a single user environment esp if that entails different media
types. It becomes a mess very quickly that requires hand holding &
can therefore interfere with normal computing & computer & file
maintenance as well as creates overly-complex recovery.

Therefore IMHO a backup system designed for "low- to medium-importance
files" should probably be limited to a person who only creates "low-
medium-importance files." Otherwise I see a multi-tiered approach
better suited to someone who creates "medium-importance files" on one
workstation and has "important stuff" on another workstation or
server. I don't really think simple folder organization (to simplify
backup jobs) solves the problem of a multi-tiered backup on a single
machine because I'm not sure you can justify the extra work, remaining
complexity, & expenditure for one machine. Even still whenever setting
up & maintaining multiple machines you can quickly feel the pressure
to simplify & centralize strategies as much as possible. This is pure
_opinion_ though. Everyone has different variables and quantities in
their own cost/benefit analysis.

But as long as he has more than one copy of his data on more than one
media (i.e. _any_ valid backup) esp for his most important data, he's
in a lot better shape than right now. Even better if it can be as
automated & simple as possible. Don't mean to beat him up - it's just
now's the best time to jump on backup esp a "best practice" - 'cause
now he REALLY understands the importance now.

 

[ohaya]

I bought a new 80G Toshiba 2.5" HD to use as a backup USB drive for my
ancient desktop.
I run Win 98SE on the 233Mhz desktop.

At first the desktop couldn't see more than 10G of the USB drive.
Someone suggested updating the Fdisk to a newer version.
I did and bingo, it could now see 80G.

I partitioned the drive into 4 partitions and started transfering files
from the desktop to the USB drive. I did it a little bit at a time for
a few weeks. I must have transferred files for a total of three or four
sessions, with no problems.

Then today I plug in the USB drive and no go!
The desktop sees a USB drive, but it's only 10G again, and there is
nothing on the drive !!!!!

Someone please help me!
I didn't backup those files, I transferred them to clear out space on
my desktop HD.

Please tell me what I should try, ending as a very last resort with
Fdisk-ing the HD.

Hi Ric,

Since you mentioned this is an 80GB Toshiba drive, I'm assuming that you
purchased the drive separately and then put it into an enclosure.

I think that you need to eliminate the possibility that there's
something going on with the USB enclosure.

What I might suggest is that you get a 2.5"-to-3.5" IDE adapter, e.g.:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10322550&loc=&rp=true

Attach the 2.5" drive via the adapter to your computer.

Then, download "partinfo" from:

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/utilities.html

You're going to have to make a bootable floppy, and copy the partinfo
program to it.

Then, run partinfo (partinfo > foo.txt), and the output will show you
what partitions are on the drive. Hopefully the 4 partitions are still
there.

If they are, maybe you can copy the files off of the drive while it's
attached via the adapter.

Jim

 

[Arno Wagner]

For low- to medium-importanec files you can get away with just one
copy, but it should be on a backup medium (MOD, professional tape),
known to work reliably. The problem with HDDs is that they have
some failure modes that make data recovery very problematic.

For really important stuff you should allways have at least
2 copies in different places and check them for errors regularly.
BTW, a working copy (on disk) does not count as a backup copy
in this.

Arno

[/QUOTE]

Well I don't really disagree but that's a preference. Everyone will
have their own idea of a "safe minimal protection" or "best practice."

My personal threshold for loss is a little lower. For me _anything_
that requires time expenditure or is an inconvenience/ PITA caused by
loss requires good protection (no matter how "important" or "valuable"
- or not - I consider the data). I also find it generally
impractical & unnecessary to maintain a multi-tiered backup strategy
in a single user environment esp if that entails different media
types. It becomes a mess very quickly that requires hand holding &
can therefore interfere with normal computing & computer & file
maintenance as well as creates overly-complex recovery.

Therefore IMHO a backup system designed for "low- to medium-importance
files" should probably be limited to a person who only creates "low-
medium-importance files." Otherwise I see a multi-tiered approach
better suited to someone who creates "medium-importance files" on one
workstation and has "important stuff" on another workstation or
server. I don't really think simple folder organization (to simplify
backup jobs) solves the problem of a multi-tiered backup on a single
machine because I'm not sure you can justify the extra work, remaining
complexity, & expenditure for one machine. Even still whenever setting
up & maintaining multiple machines you can quickly feel the pressure
to simplify & centralize strategies as much as possible. This is pure
_opinion_ though. Everyone has different variables and quantities in
their own cost/benefit analysis.

But as long as he has more than one copy of his data on more than one
media (i.e. _any_ valid backup) esp for his most important data, he's
in a lot better shape than right now. Even better if it can be as
automated & simple as possible. Don't mean to beat him up - it's just
now's the best time to jump on backup esp a "best practice" - 'cause
now he REALLY understands the importance now.

Well, it is a difficlutl subject. I do classify stuff as of low
importantce if I can get it back form another source. Medium is
that what I am unsure whether I need it again and don't know
whether I can get it.

Also there is a difference between backup and long-time storage.
The later for me goes onto MOD (have not lost a single bit in 8
years now), but only onto two if I really want to keep it. Some
stuff also goes onto three.

For backup it again depends. I have windows backups only on a
single RAID-1 array, since I do nothing important with windows
(basically gaming, the only thing it is marginally usable for
IMO). I have a lot of code and text under Linux and that backup
goes onto six independent MOD disk sets that are rotated.

Arno

 

[google3luo359]

Hi George,

Thanks for helping out!
I was beginning to think no one was going to reply.

Yes I have learned a lesson here re: backups. But if there is good news
these files are not high importance ones. More like low-medium
importance.
It would still save me a heck of amount of time if I could somehow get
them back.

I tried the fast scandisk and it didn't show anything up. It only found
10G as well.
I'm doing the long scandisk right now.

I am holding out with Fdisking again because until I know what
happened, it can very well happen again. (Aside from losing your data
completely) there is nothing worse than making a backup and aways
wondering if the data will be seen the next time you use the disk.

I will look into Norton or another recovery program.
So these programs will recover lost partitions as well as data?

Thanks again!

Ric

 

[google3luo359]

Yes you are correct, they weren't high importance files.
the small amount of space and that in you last session you managed
to fill that up and windows started writing an the beginning of the
disk, overwriting all the meta-information, file-allocation table and
main directory. ...<<

Yes, I agree that this could very well be what happened.

That's OK. If I could get back the data that didn't overwrite the FAT
table etc. I'd be happy.
Or even half of the data would be good too.
re-create the original problem.

I think you're right.
manufacturer offers drivers for win98, and if it does not, you
might have to update the OS or, e.g., use Linux (e.g. in the form of
Knoppix) to copy your files to the USB enclosure.<<

This is the part that bothers me quite a bit. I got my girfriend a $50
case and decided to go with a $25 case the next time I was in the shop.
The package the case came in has absolutely no brand name. The .doc
file on the CD has no brand name either.
Yes it does have a Win98 driver but it is unclear as to which directory
to use when setting up.
One file that doesn't give you a warm fuzzy feeling is named "Update
for 1394 Storage Peripherals in Win 98".
In this file it gives the following info:

SYMPTOMS
You may experience any of the following symptoms:

Your computer stops responding (hangs) when you physically unplug a
1394 (FireWire) storage or peripheral device from your computer.
You experience poor performance with your 1394 storage or peripheral
device.
Your 1394 storage or peripheral device is not recognized by Windows.
RESOLUTION
A software update is now available to address these issues. You can
install the Windows 98 Second Edition 1394 Storage Supplement on a
computer running Windows 98 Second Edition from the "Recommended
Updates" section of the following Microsoft Windows Update Web site:

http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com

You can also download this update (for installation later or on a
different computer) from the following Microsoft Web site:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows98/downloads/contents/WURecommended/S_WUFeatured/1394/Default.asp


NOTE : This component updates your system files and requires you to
restart your computer to complete the installation. Please save your
work and quit all programs before installing.

This update installs the Safe Removal tool that allows you to safely
stop a Plug and Play storage device prior to physically unplugging the
device. This component also includes an update for 1394 drivers to
resolve issues that are related to the "surprise" removal of peripheral
devices. Large performance improvements (approximately 300 percent)
have been made over the implementation of 1394 storage drivers in
Windows 98 Second Edition.

In another folder on the CD is a file called 242975usa8.exe which I did
run and install but it didn't make any difference.
Perhaps I should run it after fdisking but before placing data on the
HD?

In one folder is a file called USBMonit.exe but when I run it no
monitor is set up to show when I can safely unplug the HD.
In one info file is the only clue to the company:
[Strings]
MCS="Myson-Century"
MfgName="Myson-Century"
USB\VID_04CF&PID_8810.DeviceDesc="Myson-Century CS8810 USB Mass Storage
Device"
USB\VID_04CF&PID_8811.DeviceDesc="Myson-Century CS8811 USB Mass Storage
Device"
USB\VID_04CF&PID_8813.DeviceDesc="Myson-Century CS8813 USB Mass Storage
Device"
USB\VID_04CF&PID_8818.DeviceDesc="Myson-Century CS8818 USB Mass Storage
Device"
USB\VID_04CF&PID_0800.DeviceDesc="Myson-Century MTP800 USB Mass Storage
Device"
MCUSBMS\DISK.DeviceDesc="USB Mass Storage Device"


And it doesn't help that there is no obvious setup file. There are two
setup.exe files in two different folders.
They look like the same file.

Thanks!
Ric

 

[google3luo359]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for helping out!
Yes I purchased the new 80G Toshiba recently and put it in a case I
also bought at the store.
A certified "no-name" case.

While I was buying the case I also bought a 2.5"-to-3.5" IDE adapter
for the future when I might install a 2.5 as my main HD in a desktop.
Then, download "partinfo" from:
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/utilities.html <<

I would try your suggestion, however, before I set up the HD as a USB
drive in its case, I did try to set up the HD as my c:
drive on my desktop. I didn't think I'd have success because I'd read
many times and spoken to a Maxtor tech who said that my system/BIOS
wouldn't accept a c: HD bigger than 30 or 40G (I'm using a 30G now).

Sure enough, when I tried to boot up, the HD wasn't recognized. I had
it on Auto in the BIOS, but when I typed in some numbers for
heads/cylinders (according to the HD's specs) it still wasn't
recognized.

So although it is quite tedious to open the case up and do all the
re-wiring, I would do it if there was a chance of the drive being
recognized. But I've done it twice now and it couldn't be seen by the
system.

Ric

 

[Curious George]

Hi George,

Thanks for helping out!
I was beginning to think no one was going to reply.

Yes I have learned a lesson here re: backups. But if there is good news
these files are not high importance ones. More like low-medium
importance.
It would still save me a heck of amount of time if I could somehow get
them back.

I tried the fast scandisk and it didn't show anything up. It only found
10G as well.
I'm doing the long scandisk right now.

I am holding out with Fdisking again because until I know what
happened, it can very well happen again. (Aside from losing your data
completely) there is nothing worse than making a backup and aways
wondering if the data will be seen the next time you use the disk.

Please don't re-FDISK to try to recover the files. It won't work.

I will look into Norton or another recovery program.
So these programs will recover lost partitions as well as data?

The recovery programs can locate files regardless of partition
structure. There are many to choose from. Many have free trials you
can use to test if they can find your missing data. You might
consider removing the Drive from the case and installing it internally
if you now consider the drive box suspicious.

Norton Disk doctor can (hopefully) correct partition structure damage.
It's been a long time since I used NDD on FAT or FAT32. IIRC it may
have trouble correcting your particular situation but is still worth a
try. But try to recover the files first.

 

[google3luo359]

Hi George,

Things were looking a lot brighter up until a few minutes ago.
I'm using a disk recovery program that has found all of the 'missing'
files.
I'm copying them to my c: HD.

But I decided to check some of them in the middle of the copying
process.

The mp3 and wmv files won't play in Media Player. I get errors
"..extension does not match file format" and "class not registered".
The zip, jpg, and htm files are not recognized either.

So this is obviously not good.

Any ideas on how I can get these files recognized now that they have
been restored?

Thanks!

Ric

 

[Curious George]

Hi George,

Things were looking a lot brighter up until a few minutes ago.
I'm using a disk recovery program that has found all of the 'missing'
files.
I'm copying them to my c: HD.

But I decided to check some of them in the middle of the copying
process.

The mp3 and wmv files won't play in Media Player. I get errors
"..extension does not match file format" and "class not registered".
The zip, jpg, and htm files are not recognized either.

So this is obviously not good.

Any ideas on how I can get these files recognized now that they have
been restored?

Thanks!

Ric

Depending on what exactly happened, you may not ever be easily able to
recover all complete, undamaged files. Try to do the best you can
with that or other recovery programs. Focus on the most important
files/file types that are hardest to replace. You may be able to
repair some damaged zips with the archiving program. Irfanview can
tell you if some media files are indeed misnamed (rather than
corrupt.) Although typically recovery programs don't mess up the file
extension of good, fully intact files.

Once you've done the best you can, and there is nothing remaining that
you'll shoot yourself if you never see again, try Norton disk doctor.
If it can't correct the partition edit or replace the MBR so it
references a larger partition size than 10GB. Then run NDD again. It
should correct everything from there. But if Arno is right then you
have a lot of trashed data that is not easily fixed.

 

[google3luo359]

Hi George,

Well this recovery software (Recovery4All Professional) found pretty
much all the files and I have 'recovered' them to my c: drive, but I
can't get at a single one of them.
They are all correctly named. File name and extension, just as they
were. File sizes and dates look perfect.
Even if I try to open an innocent .doc file in Word I get a file full
of boxes rather than text. Gif files open in ACDSEE but they are all
completely black, no image.

I guess I need to find the Doctor.

Ric

 

[ericgree]

Hey George,

it's me Eric.
(Diff e-mail address)

Oh boy.
Now I could really use your help!

I'm writing this on my pocket pc!

The disk recovery app was still open (finished using it though) and I
was trying to open a zip file when my system froze.

Couldn't soft-reset. Couldn't hard reset!
The system won't boot now!
It's not reading anything, not even a: drive. I don't get the startup
beep. Keyboard all lights are on.
Monitor light is blinking, that's it.

Any ideas what I should do next?

 

[Curious George]

Hey George,

it's me Eric.
(Diff e-mail address)

Oh boy.
Now I could really use your help!

I'm writing this on my pocket pc!

The disk recovery app was still open (finished using it though) and I
was trying to open a zip file when my system froze.

You sure you didn't do anything silly like hot plug something you
shouldn't of?

Couldn't soft-reset. Couldn't hard reset!

So it froze and then remained on?

The system won't boot now!

Do any fans or HDD's spin when you press the power button?

It's not reading anything, not even a: drive.

What do you mean? You're not at any OS or OS Prompt - so disks don't
spin up & FDD isn't read at end of POST (that doesn't get a chance to
happen)? Or everything looks fine except no POST?

I don't get the startup
beep. Keyboard all lights are on.

Hmm. What about the power LED?

Monitor light is blinking, that's it.

Monitor light doesn't tell you much.

Any ideas what I should do next?

Try to inventory the computer a little more. Disconnect all
non-essential peripherals & open the case. Inspect the innards.
Anything loose? When you press the power button are the fans working?
Do HDD's Spin up? Heatsinks still correctly mounted? Blown caps?
Power supply OK? (the keyboard is powered though - so get a multimeter
if nothing else pops out at you) CMOS Battery OK? (Most of the time
this doesn't prohibiting booting but IIRC is can in rare cases & is a
quick/cheap fix)


Frankly I'd start worrying about the motherboard & processor right
now? Start getting either your receipts or wallet ready.


BTW, do you have a properly wired grounded outlet with at least good
surge protection?

 

[ericgree]

No I didn't hotplug anything.
Yes the system froze and remained on.
When I power up I think I hear the HD. I'll have to confirm that.

No OS prompt, no POST. The power light comes on and the HD drive access
light remains on (frozen).

I will inspect the insides as you suggest. Not much choice now. I just
changed the CMOS battery a couple of months ago just in case. It had
been nearly 10 years.

THis same type of situation happened about 6 months to a year ago and
it turned out to be a lose wire inside so maybe.....

Thanks I'll let you know what happens..

Ric

 

[Curious George]

No I didn't hotplug anything.
Yes the system froze and remained on.
When I power up I think I hear the HD. I'll have to confirm that.

No OS prompt, no POST. The power light comes on and the HD drive access
light remains on (frozen).

I will inspect the insides as you suggest. Not much choice now. I just
changed the CMOS battery a couple of months ago just in case. It had
been nearly 10 years.

THis same type of situation happened about 6 months to a year ago and
it turned out to be a lose wire inside

Which wire? Similar symptoms or _exactly_ the same?

so maybe.....

Lets hope. While you're at it check the seating of all the cards &
processor. Clean as you go just for the hell of it.

 

[google3luo359]

Hey George,

I'm back in business!!! What a big relief!

Which wire? Similar symptoms or _exactly_ the same?

If I think back I'd say it was probably exactly the same symptoms.
The 'wire' last time was coming from my floppy drive. The ribbon cable.

Same thing happened this time. The last time it was pretty much
completely off.
This time it was loose enough to lose contact.
I'll have to remember this for future reference.

What happens is that my CD-ROMs vibrate so strongly when they run, they
eventually loosen nearby cables.
And my floppy isn't too far away.

Well now it'll be back to the grindstone, trying to recover my files
again.
It's frustrating with that other disk recovery program because all of
the files that have been copied back to c: are there, size, name etc.
you just can't open any of them!

Thanks again!

Eric

 

[google3luo359]

Hi George,

I'm back in business! What a relief!

It turned out to be a loose connection. Same as last time. Same floppy
drive connector. This time it was just loose. The last time it had come
off altogether.
Problem is that I have two CD-ROMs that vibrate very strongly.
Eventually they loosen neighbouring cables.

Now it's back to my disk recovery problem.

Here's a post from a similar thread that's active now:

Got the HD enclosure, installed it, worked fine for about 10 minutes,
then gives me a "delayed write error" message and went dead. The HD is
recognizable under Devices as a USB external HD...just won't assign a
drive #. Running XP w/ SP2, HD jumpers set as master. Any help?

Have a look on Google for this very popular, but it seems almost
irresolvable problem.

You could try a powered USB hub is about the best hope I can give you.
<


So it seems that even in WinXP USB drives are a problem.

Eric